Color Management Systems

B
Posted By
Bruce
Jan 20, 2004
Views
414
Replies
14
Status
Closed
I just bought a scanner (Epson 3200) and, due to previous problems in the past, am thinking about Color Management software/hardware. I have a flyer on EZColor’s Monaco color management system but know nothing about it.

I am not a professional, but I’m picky.

So I was wondering
* If anyone uses color management system & what system. * If anyone has any opinion on Monaco.

Thanks…
JC
Jason Cooke
Jan 20, 2004
I use the Pantone Spyder and ColorVision, I haven’t sent a job to press with bad color yet. I don’t have the printer calibrator but I’ve pretty much got the profiles figured out on those so that I can get accurate proofs. I’ve been using this for about 2 years now and their have since been many companies come out and compete in this market. Once of the better ones I’ve heard about is Sony’s calibrating system teamed with their monitors. Good luck!

"Bruce" wrote in message
I just bought a scanner (Epson 3200) and, due to previous problems in the past, am thinking about Color Management software/hardware. I have a flyer on EZColor’s Monaco color management system but know nothing about it.

I am not a professional, but I’m picky.

So I was wondering
* If anyone uses color management system & what system. * If anyone has any opinion on Monaco.

Thanks…

W
WharfRat
Jan 21, 2004
in article wrote on
1/20/04 11:27 AM:

I just bought a scanner (Epson 3200) and, due to previous problems in the past, am thinking about Color Management software/hardware. I have a flyer on EZColor’s Monaco color management system but know nothing about it.

I am not a professional, but I’m picky.

So I was wondering
* If anyone uses color management system & what system. * If anyone has any opinion on Monaco.

Don’t ever get a system that produces printer profiles
by using a scanner to evaluate the printout.

MSD
B
Bruce
Jan 21, 2004
Don’t ever get a system that produces printer profiles
by using a scanner to evaluate the printout.

Can you elaborate?
W
WharfRat
Jan 21, 2004
in article wrote on
1/20/04 7:01 PM:

Don’t ever get a system that produces printer profiles
by using a scanner to evaluate the printout.

Can you elaborate?

Simply,

From a low rent system (such as those scanner based applications) your scanner profiles will never be really good – to start with (yes – they are fine, maybe good enough)
but then to scan a printer output
with a poor scanner profile
will only result in poorer and poorer results.

MSD
MR
Mike Russell
Jan 21, 2004
WharfRat wrote:
in article
wrote on 1/20/04 7:01 PM:

Don’t ever get a system that produces printer profiles
by using a scanner to evaluate the printout.

Can you elaborate?

Simply,

From a low rent system (such as those scanner based applications) your scanner profiles will never be really good – to start with (yes – they are fine, maybe good enough)
but then to scan a printer output
with a poor scanner profile
will only result in poorer and poorer results.

Right on MSD. Another way to sum it up is that printers print images that scanners cannot scan effectively, particularly in the darker areas. —

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net
B
Bruce
Jan 21, 2004
From a low rent system (such as those scanner based applications) your scanner profiles will never be really good – to start with (yes – they are fine, maybe good enough)
but then to scan a printer output
with a poor scanner profile
will only result in poorer and poorer results.

Right on MSD. Another way to sum it up is that printers print images that scanners cannot scan effectively, particularly in the darker areas.

So am I correct that to accurately profile a printer, one would require a calibrated device to read patches from a printer?

Monaco EZcolor uses a spyder to calibrate monitors and have an IT8 to calibrate scanners. I would assume for those devices could be calibrated, but since it uses the scanner to calibrate the printer, the printer profiling would not be accurate. Am I getting this?

Thanks…

bruce
GC
Graeme Cogger
Jan 21, 2004
In article <BC332E83.124A9%
says…
in article wrote on
1/20/04 7:01 PM:

Don’t ever get a system that produces printer profiles
by using a scanner to evaluate the printout.

Can you elaborate?

Simply,

From a low rent system (such as those scanner based applications) your scanner profiles will never be really good – to start with (yes – they are fine, maybe good enough)
but then to scan a printer output
with a poor scanner profile
will only result in poorer and poorer results.
That assumes that the scanner profile is used to scan the print. With Profile Prism (and possibly others) the print is scanned at the same time as a known reference target (e.g. IT8) No scanner profile is used or needed since the calibration is done by comparison with the reference target.
S
Stephan
Jan 21, 2004
"Bruce" wrote in message
From a low rent system (such as those scanner based applications) your scanner profiles will never be really good – to start with (yes – they are fine, maybe good enough)
but then to scan a printer output
with a poor scanner profile
will only result in poorer and poorer results.

Right on MSD. Another way to sum it up is that printers print images
that
scanners cannot scan effectively, particularly in the darker areas.

So am I correct that to accurately profile a printer, one would require a calibrated device to read patches from a printer?

Monaco EZcolor uses a spyder to calibrate monitors and have an IT8 to calibrate scanners. I would assume for those devices could be calibrated, but since it uses the scanner to calibrate the printer, the printer profiling would not be accurate. Am I getting this?
Thanks…
Yes, the scanner is the weak link.

Stephan
MR
Mike Russell
Jan 21, 2004
Bruce wrote:
From a low rent system (such as those scanner based applications) your scanner profiles will never be really good – to start with (yes – they are fine, maybe good enough)
but then to scan a printer output
with a poor scanner profile
will only result in poorer and poorer results.

Right on MSD. Another way to sum it up is that printers print images that scanners cannot scan effectively, particularly in the darker areas.

So am I correct that to accurately profile a printer, one would require
a calibrated device to read patches from a printer?

Monaco EZcolor uses a spyder to calibrate monitors and have an IT8 to calibrate scanners. I would assume for those devices could be calibrated, but since it uses the scanner to calibrate the printer, the printer profiling would not be accurate. Am I getting this?

Yes – although I would qualify this by saying that if the scanner were good enough to discern the shadow areas of the printer, the calibrations produced could be just fine. Higher end CCD scanners, and drum scanners are capable of this.

You can determine this for your particular scanner by printing a step wedge, then scanning it, selecting the darkest segments of the wedge with the marquee tool, and see whether the histogram of the step wedge is able to distinguish the darker squares.

If the peaks are blurred together, or not distintuishable from one another, the profile generated using that scanner will throw away the bottom range of the printer.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net
J
jeffc
Jan 21, 2004
Ok, then what do you recommend for this?
Buster

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:14:13 GMT, WharfRat
wrote:

in article wrote on
1/20/04 7:01 PM:

Don’t ever get a system that produces printer profiles
by using a scanner to evaluate the printout.

Can you elaborate?

Simply,

From a low rent system (such as those scanner based applications) your scanner profiles will never be really good – to start with (yes – they are fine, maybe good enough)
but then to scan a printer output
with a poor scanner profile
will only result in poorer and poorer results.

MSD
S
subdude
Jan 21, 2004
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:27:07 GMT, Bruce graced us
with:

I just bought a scanner (Epson 3200) and, due to previous problems in the past, am thinking about Color Management software/hardware. I have a flyer on EZColor’s Monaco color management system but know nothing about it.

I am not a professional, but I’m picky.

So I was wondering
* If anyone uses color management system & what system. * If anyone has any opinion on Monaco.

Thanks…
I may be uniquely qualified here simply because I have owned both systems. I started out with Colorvision and ended up using Monaco EZ Color and never looked back.

With the CV unit the scanner is indeed a weak link, but made even more so because you are not scanning your printed reference along side a CALIBRATED reference target like the Monaco system. I found the differences to be night and day and was lucky enough to get a rebate from Monaco by sending in my old CV colorimeter (I did so without hesitation – I was glad to get rid of the damn thing!)

Also the Monaco Colorimeter does both CRT *and* LCD while the CV unit did one or the other (at the time, this may have changed with the newer versions). With CV I spent more time tweaking the profiles than using them. When I installed and setup the Monaco system I was using the profiles right away. While I have not sent anything out for professional printing yet, I can tell you that my photo prints with the Epson 1280 (now using 2200) were dramatically better.

Also their support was much better than CV/Pantone which was disappointing seeing as how Pantone is *the* color reference firm…go figure

Anyway I hope this helps you in your decision; if you do end up going with CV/Pantone see what your return options are first!

subdude
R
Rob
Jan 21, 2004
I used the CV Spider for the monitors with good results, but the Profiler Plus software that came with it was a complete waste of ink and paper. The profiles it produced couldn’t handle dark or shadow areas (this was on an Epson 2200). If I had deep pockets I would use a Gretag i1 pro spectrophotometer for everything and use averaged profiles.

"WharfRat" wrote in message
in article wrote
on
1/20/04 11:27 AM:

I just bought a scanner (Epson 3200) and, due to previous problems in the past, am thinking about Color Management software/hardware. I have a flyer on EZColor’s Monaco color management system but know nothing about it.

I am not a professional, but I’m picky.

So I was wondering
* If anyone uses color management system & what system. * If anyone has any opinion on Monaco.

Don’t ever get a system that produces printer profiles
by using a scanner to evaluate the printout.

MSD
W
WharfRat
Jan 22, 2004
in article , Buster at
wrote on 1/21/04 5:43 AM:

Ok, then what do you recommend for this?

If you just have one printer you are dealing with …
you can send out for the digital file to print – then mail in the print to have a profile generated for you.
Chromix will do it for you.

If you are a pro and need reliable profiles on a regular basis, you will need to spend the cash for a spectrophotometer
and all the goodies. 2 to 5 thousand would do it.
Not that many people need that or are willing to invest the time that needs to go along with it.

Or – just use experience, trial and error and common sense and keep your parameters consistent.

MSD

——–
Don’t ever get a system that produces printer profiles
by using a scanner to evaluate the printout.

Can you elaborate?

Simply,

From a low rent system (such as those scanner based applications) your scanner profiles will never be really good – to start with (yes – they are fine, maybe good enough)
but then to scan a printer output
with a poor scanner profile
will only result in poorer and poorer results.

MSD
F
Flycaster
Jan 22, 2004
"WharfRat" wrote in message
in article , Buster at
wrote on 1/21/04 5:43 AM:

Ok, then what do you recommend for this?

If you just have one printer you are dealing with …
you can send out for the digital file to print – then mail in the print to have a profile generated for you.
Chromix will do it for you.

If you are a pro and need reliable profiles on a regular basis, you will need to spend the cash for a spectrophotometer
and all the goodies. 2 to 5 thousand would do it.
Not that many people need that or are willing to invest the time that needs to go along with it.

Or – just use experience, trial and error and common sense and keep your parameters consistent.

Actually, you can get what you want for about $1200 – Eye One Photo. It still ain’t "cheap", however.

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Related Discussion Topics

Nice and short text about related topics in discussion sections