using a metallic ink in 5th channel below cmyk

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Posted By
peter_goodman
Feb 14, 2004
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487
Replies
8
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Closed
We need to have cmyk objects print on a 5th color (a spot color) of metallic ink.

Would we set this up in Photoshop with the 5th color in a separate spot channel?

Is it possible to create a gradation on a metallic ink layer, or would it be better to do this in the cmyk to overprint the metallic layer (using a shade of gray from 20% to 0% on a separate gradation layer?).

Is it always the case that the metallic layer will lay down first and be overprinted by the cmyk? We will talk to the printer obviously, but in general in what order do these things happen on press, or is there no set order? (Printer has otherwise been not very helpful.)

We want type to knock out of both cmyk and the metallic to produce white (paper) on the final. What is the best way to do this?

I’ve experimented a bit with the 5th channel in Photoshop, and it gives the appearance in the display of overprinting the cmyk. Do we have to "knock out" the cmyk from the 5th channel in order to be sure that the cmyk color is not shifted?

Sorry for all these questions at once. If it’s too complex to explain here, please recommend a book or online help.

Very much appreciate any guidance. Never had to do this before and would like to have some sense of how it’s done.
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channel cmyk ink metal

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Carl_Stawicki
Feb 14, 2004
I’ve worked with designs where the CMYK overprints metallic ink, but never with gradations. One tip I have is to make the CMYK darker and more contrasty than normal. The metallic, even though pretty and shiny, will flatten the image out quit a bit (it’s like printing on a gray substrate). Unfortunately, this is a process that you can’t in any way soft proof, so you should work with the printer to optimize your images. If you knock out the CMYK image from the metallic, then it’s just like a normal job with a spot color, with nothing unusual. As for the drop-out type, you would have a problem if the piece printed off register, so I recommend choking the CMYK back.

Carl.
T
Todie
Feb 14, 2004
Matchprint has silver.
Ask your printer or service bureau if they can make a proof. I’d print the silver on top of CMYK.
Extensive masking may be necessary to protect the rest of the image from being messed up by the silver details.
JS
John_Slate
Feb 15, 2004
I’d print the silver on top of CMYK.

You don’t really mean that do you Laurentiu?

Silver, while not completely opaque, would have a big effect on a CMYK image if solid silver went down after the CMYK. Conversely, if the silver went down first as a solid, the CMYK would also print like crap.

All metallics present a difficult ink-to-ink trapping problem on press.

Ink rotation is critical, but nothing you can do in Photoshop will make the press operator load the inks one way or another. Personally, I favor silver down first. Opinions vary.

One thing is certain, the CMYK info must knock out the silver, and if you end up with some gradated areas, they should print OK.
T
Todie
Feb 15, 2004
John, I would print silver with the midtones as shadow (0=0 50=75 100=0) and use the plate as a mask for a curve layer to tone down the gray areas that must be replaced with silver in a photographic image: )
Yes, I’d print on top; if possible when the CMYK is dry. Illustrations with fades do not inspire me (I need to see to make up my mind).
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 15, 2004
I recommend you run the metallic silver by itself first let it dry then overprint the cmyk.

Run it with the grain. I don’t think you could succeed knocking the cmyk out of the silver and it would look rather funky. I do recommend running a coarser screen that you would normally run.

Over print the silver will not accomplish what you want, sorry Larry I think they want to see the process image and the silver as background.

If you were running the silver metallic over all as a background color this will work fine but if the process is sharing silver and paper as background then you are definitely going to get a transparent look to the cmyk for better or worse.

I tell you if you don’t do a press proof you and the printer are crazy!
T
Todie
Feb 15, 2004
Wade, You may have a picture in mind, and I another.
I’ve done this many times.
If you go to Soho, look for the OK Harris gallery on West Broadway. One of the many posters I printed for them is a painting on wood with a gold leaf sky. My name is on the lower right side, as the printer.
The sky was printed gold (wet on wet), with a lot of fine detail and good coverage.

<http://www.retouching.com/florida.jpg>

The coarser screen info must come from a silk screen printer : ) Metallic ink is more consistent and dries faster in the screen than regular (UV) process inks.
MO
Mike_Ornellas:_battered_house_wife
Feb 15, 2004
Overprinting or KO metallic is a art driven choice. There are production issues as well as artistic renderings. If you screw it up, you can always do it again…..;o)

Is it possible to create a gradation on a metallic ink layer, or would it be better to do this in the cmyk to overprint the metallic layer (using a shade of gray from 20% to 0% on a separate gradation layer?).<

Because metallic inks are rather tricky beasts and print fiasco at happen at times, I’d recommend when using a gradation, start with a higher value of dot than you’d think you would use. Again, it’s art driven, but if I were to do a metallic job, I’d start ink at 50% value and run to a solid. Metallics don’t have the punch you’d think they would have. Stock considerations should as well be a big part of dot starting point.

Run and be free…….
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 15, 2004
Larry you’ve been sniffing the dye buffer again! I told you about that! 🙂

I meant to use a not to fine line resolution!

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