Please read this carefully, my problem is complex. I’m currently running 6 G5 Macs OSX with Photoshop CS2 on each. I deal with a ton of images (all jpegs) each day (in the 10,000 range or more). I handle mainly the color on these images, preparing them to be cropped and printed. Our network is cross platform which is creating a kink in our workflow. Photoshop is creating unknown files every time I save an image. On the Mac’s you don’t see them but on the PC’s (WinXP Pro and Win2K boxes) hidden files appear with the normal jpegs I’m saving. They look like this…
.._36430001.jpg (hidden file) size usually about 1kb to 5 kb’s. 36430001.jpg (normal jpeg file) size usually about 500kb to 1MB.
These hidden files will not open in Windows AT ALL. Whether in Photoshop or any other image program. I’ve also tried removing the first "." just to see if it would open but no luck.
The problem with this is after I’m done with color someone else is cropping those images with an AutoCropping program in Windows. Since their are extra files with strange file names in the folders with the normal images the AutoCrop is not able to be performed. We can just delete these extra files… HOWEVER with the volume that we do it takes up alot of our time plus AutoCrop operators forget to do it. Is their anyway possible to make this file not appear. I’ve tried turning off ALL photoshop Image preview and thumbnails. Plus I made sure Bridge doesn’t save it’s cache in the folder that I’m saving too. My understanding of this is fairly advanced. But I’m somewhat new to using photoshop on the Mac’s. If someone can at least tell me what these extra files are I can contact adobe about it. Thanks!
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This is the boilerplate text I use in connection to saving to a network (please NOTE the part where it explains that normally, it does work, but that it is impossible to troubleshoot someone else’s network remotely, and that’s why it’s not supported by Adobe):
If you are opening files over a network or saving them to a network server, please cease and desist immediately in the event you are currently experiencing problems with one or more files. Working across a network is not supported.
Copy the CLOSED file from your server to your local hard disk, work on it, save it again to your local hard disk, close it, and copy the closed file back to the server.
Of course, the fact that Adobe does not support working across a network does not necessarily mean it won’t work. It should.
Adobe’s position is that there are too many variables in a network environment for them to guarantee that everything will work correctly in every network, especially given the fact that if something does not work properly, it’s probably the network’s fault, and Adobe has no way of troubleshooting your network.
If you can’t work locally, you are on your own, and if something happens, you’re on your own. If you must work from a server, make sure your network administrator is a competent professional.
When problems arise, a lot of valuable work can be lost.
A few thoughts which may not be enough. Working over a network I consider personal preference. I’ve mostly worked over a network (I find it saves too much time to not) for years and years without any problems. People say you shouldn’t jaywalk (you could get killed) but I’ve done that for years.
Are you working over a network when you are creating the files or only when they get transferred to the auto cropping program?
If you are is this invisible file only created when you work over the network?
Worst case scenario isn’t there a way to automatically filter out all files prefiixed with "._".
Windows? There isn’t a comparable auto crop program on the mac?
If you’re working on a Mac and copying files to Windows servers, my understanding is that Windows doesn’t understand Macintosh resource forks and breaks files (with resource and data forks) into twin files–one with the same name as your original file (the actual data in your original file) and one with the same name preceded by "._", which is the resource fork. Files with names starting with "." are invisible to Mac OS X users, but are visible to Windows users.
This has nothing to do with saving or opening files over a network but everything to do with how Windows servers handle Macintosh files.
You can safely ignore all the files on your Windows server starting with "._". Changing their name by deleting the period won’t enable them to open, as they have no file data.
Working over a network I consider personal preference. Of course.
And it should work if the network administrator is a competent professional.
Ramón and I choose to do our workflow differently, but as he says you have an administrator (which I’ve always had) that knows what they are doing.
Resource fork. How I enjoyed using Res edit. However I thought that Apple has been discouraging the use of the resource fork. I have freelance in mixed platform shops and have not run into this problem. Assuming Larry has hit it there must be some set up in your system/network to cause this.
Well, I don’t really have to "choose". I’m not on a network. 😀 I used to when I was working at my day job, but that ended a couple of years ago. Never worked across the server then either.
I’m also totallly against resaving jpegs–I tell people all the time not to do it, but that being said if the compression is set to max or near max quality you can be hard pressed to find any noticeable changes/artifacts in the file.
Actually they jpegs make me so nervous that I change the PDFx1a compression setting to ZIP. Although I did some tests and the only difference I was able to discern between the jpeg and ZIP pdfx1a settings (I suppose it is no longer 1xa but to me it is better) was the final mbs, it still worries me that one day I’ll send an add off to a printer with an artifact that I failed to notice.
Before PDF, the studio I ran *never* sent a JPEG compressed file for production. And we never archived in that format either (so we were never opening JPEGs in our ordinary workflow). When using PDF we paid attention to quality settings. I agree with Ramón.
I deal with a ton of images (all jpegs) each day (in the 10,000 range or more). I handle mainly the color on these images, preparing them to be cropped and printed. Our network is cross platform which is creating a kink in our workflow.
Without asking, I can assume that the OP works in some sort of large photo lab or studio. There’s a very good chance that the workflow he describes might actually REQUIRE jpg’s to be effecient, or to even work at all.
There’s also a very good chance that the jpgs in question are not destined for high-end reproduction or ultra high-res display. Heck, they may be assembly line mug shots for school yearbooks that will never be printed larger than 8"x10", and may also be destined to live in eternity as a 1"x2" grayscale image printed at 133 lpi in a saddle-stitched 7th grade yearbook that, within minutes of being delivered to the hands of little Jimmy, will be covered in an errant puddle of spilled Koolaid.
Before everyone completely poops on jpg, remember that there is often a very good, and sometimes necessary reason for using them in one’s workflow, especially when handling 10,000 images per day.
Well Paul was right, I work with so many Jpegs a day that if it was any other format that it just wouldn’t work! Most of the images we print are from a billfold size to 10×13 with the occasional 16×20 but never larger. As far as resaving them, their is no way around it. The program we use to do the cropping is called Drums (www.drumsusers.com) This is the first season we’ve used it, and so far it pretty much sucks. It can do alot of things, it’s got a decent database, but it’s full of bugs and difficult to use.
Back to Jpegs, I am saving them to a Windows server, so the forking thing may be correct. For now I’m just doing a search for "._" and deleting them. I’m compressing them at "9" when I save out of photoshop. However Drums resaves the image again, then they get packageized into whatever they’ll be printed as so that’s another save. Our images look fine. We’re not printed on some high rez inkjet or anything. It’s all RGB process printers, Noritsu’s and Agfa D-lab. We’re more worried about how well our photographers shot the job most of the time :). Anyway thanks for the help!
Ramón G Castañeda went right for the main point on this one. When I saw the word ‘network’ I thought "that’s it," When I saw the word "Windows" also = problems get rid of it, plus using wierd software like ‘Drums.’
Nothing to add but to support Ramón’s position on this.
Unfortunately it’s not my decision what we use… if it were up to me though we wouldn’t be using drums and we would be all one OS, but our management is "digitally challenged" and takes advice from our ONE IT guy who is thinks he knows it all. I sure don’t know it all but I know he hasn’t got a clue sometimes!
Remember he said 10,000 files per DAY OR MORE! His workflow using jpegs might make since given that it’s probably catalogue and 216 lpi kind of images… not fine art. That’s 50,000 images per week. Compression might equal survival.
That’s 1,000 files per hour in a ten-hour work day, 16.7 files per minute, which leaves him 3.6 seconds to spend on a file. I realize there are several people working on them, but my point is that no single person could possibly supervise that output to check for quality.
No wonder they’re OK with resaving a JPEG three times. I’d be fine with that if I never got to look at the files too. 😀
Reread his original post. 6 machines. So that’s 20 seconds per image. So who cares about artifacts? They are simply adjusting the color (again in his original post).
"I realize there are several people working on them, but my point is that no single person could possibly supervise that output to check for quality."
Now you suggest they have six different monkeys working on the images and no single person looks at all of them, and each of the six is not concerned with what the other five are doing.
I repeat:
"No wonder they’re OK with resaving a JPEG three times. I’d be fine with that if I never got to look at the files too."
Your right I don’t get a "good" look at the files. I use bridge to look at the thumbs; I open a few of them up, check for color then batch them to the server. And I’m batching anywhere from 100 to 500 at a time. If I compaired the final file for print to the original their is hardly a difference pixel for pixel… I know I’ve looked. So resaveing them is no big deal. Oh yeah and when they go to be cropped they are looked at a little more closely, then we also inspect them after they are printed. We’re useing a roll to roll printer so we just spool them along on a proofing machine to check for problem, remakes, etc.
Eric you are the only one in the forum that actually sees the results and if you think the jpegged files are ok then they are ok.
That is all that matters. It like in the old days of stereos when someone would spend a gazillion dollars and someone else would go to Lafeyette for $300.
The thing is if you can’t hear (see) the difference in the final output then there is no difference. Kinda like a tree fallling in the woods.
Please read this carefully, my problem is complex. I’m currently running 6 G5 Macs OSX with Photoshop CS2 on each. I deal with a ton of images (all jpegs) each day (in the 10,000 range or more). I handle mainly the color on these images, preparing them to be cropped and printed. Our network is cross platform which is creating a kink in our workflow. Photoshop is creating unknown files every time I save an image. On the Mac’s you don’t see them but on the PC’s (WinXP Pro and Win2K boxes) hidden files appear with the normal jpegs I’m saving. They look like this…
._36430001.jpg (hidden file) size usually about 1kb to 5 kb’s. 36430001.jpg (normal jpeg file) size usually about 500kb to 1MB. These hidden files will not open in Windows AT ALL. Whether in Photoshop or any other image program. I’ve also tried removing the first "." just to see if it would open but no luck.
The problem with this is after I’m done with color someone else is cropping those images with an AutoCropping program in Windows. Since their are extra files with strange file names in the folders with the normal images the AutoCrop is not able to be performed. We can just delete these extra files… HOWEVER with the volume that we do it takes up alot of our time plus AutoCrop operators forget to do it. Is their anyway possible to make this file not appear. I’ve tried turning off ALL photoshop Image preview and thumbnails. Plus I made sure Bridge doesn’t save it’s cache in the folder that I’m saving too. My understanding of this is fairly advanced. But I’m somewhat new to using photoshop on the Mac’s. If someone can at least tell me what these extra files are I can contact adobe about it. Thanks!
Those extra files are created because you’re saving the files onto a Windows file server or perhaps you’re mounting a Mac file server’s share using its ability to serve it as SMB. In either case, the Mac doing the saving sees the server has having only Windows filesystem capabilities, and in that case, the Mac saves a file that has a resource fork — which is where Photoshop creates the custom icon and/or previews — with a file which is named the same except with a "._" on the front of the name.
If you can’t get your autocropping program to ignore files with that naming pattern, just turn off custom icons and previews in Photoshops preferences and it should create that extra file.
— ‘It is Mac OS X, not BSD.’ — ‘From Mac OS to BSD Unix.’ "It’s BSD Unix with Apple’s APIs and GUI on top of it’ — ‘nothing but BSD Unix’ (Edwin on Mac OS X) ‘[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.’ — ‘I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM) ‘Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.’ — ‘Sun OS is not included on the timeline of Solaris because it’s a different OS.’ (Edwin on Sun)
If you’re working on a Mac and copying files to Windows servers, my understanding is that Windows doesn’t understand Macintosh resource forks and breaks files (with resource and data forks) into twin files–one with the same name as your original file (the actual data in your original file) and one with the same name preceded by "._", which is the resource fork. Files with names starting with "." are invisible to Mac OS X users, but are visible to Windows users.
This has nothing to do with saving or opening files over a network but everything to do with how Windows servers handle Macintosh files. You can safely ignore all the files on your Windows server starting with "._". Changing their name by deleting the period won’t enable them to open, as they have no file data.
They are annoying but just ignore them.
Actually, it’s the Mac that does the breaking up of the file, as it understands that Windows doesn’t understand.
If you understand what I mean…
<G>
— ‘It is Mac OS X, not BSD.’ — ‘From Mac OS to BSD Unix.’ "It’s BSD Unix with Apple’s APIs and GUI on top of it’ — ‘nothing but BSD Unix’ (Edwin on Mac OS X) ‘[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.’ — ‘I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM) ‘Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.’ — ‘Sun OS is not included on the timeline of Solaris because it’s a different OS.’ (Edwin on Sun)
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