CS turns off my comp; Windows XP

KF
Posted By
Kenny_Frank
Apr 1, 2004
Views
9483
Replies
353
Status
Closed
Has anyone had any success in finding a solution to this problem? I’ve been talking to HP support, but so far they do not have an answer…

Kenny Frank
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 1, 2004
I haven’t heard anything from HP engineers – and they’re the ones who’ll have to solve it…
AS
Aaron_Shoemaker
Apr 2, 2004
I have found the solution to the problem with my hp zd7000 series laptop… it is to call HP and have them do an RMA, to take the unit back.

There is no solution to this issue as it turns out… just to go with a different manufacturer. Maybe I’ll get an Apple. I hear they have a decent 17" screen.
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 2, 2004
You’ll need to do a cross licence deal with adobe to transfer your win license to mac. Customer service will be able to help you. As long as you’re going from current version to current version (that is, CS to CS, not 7 to CS) I believe all you need to pay is shipping. Don’t quote me on that but I’ve heard it from a few folks on the mac side of the forum.

OTOH, those lean, mean little IBM ThinkPads are REALLY sexy! XD

<IBM Commercial>Don’t you wanna be a playa?!!</IBM Comm.>
DB
David_B_Farmer
Apr 15, 2004
GREAT FIX for Photoshop CS slowness and sudden crashing!!

David B Farmer – 09:00pm Apr 14, 2004 Pacific

(from earlier post…)
Way down in the message boards is a topic discussing CS’ and 7.0’s ability to suddenly shut down a computer without any warning, particularly the HP zd7000. This was a frustrating thing for people using that laptop. It was considered in that forum to be a hardware solution.

I just got off the phone with some very knowledgeable HP engineers, and after nearly an hour of solutioning, we found that in both 7.0 and CS versions, Photoshop is trying to access outdated MMX technology. For PENTIUM USERS who have a P4 chip – at any clock speed – this is a critical and wonderful fix! Read on! (FYI: the zd7000 uses P4 3.0 or 3.2+ with HT technology, which is why it was a concern for people who owned this high-powered laptop – but the fix goes for anyone with a P4 or higher).

On the PC, go to C:/Program Files/Adobe/Photoshop CS/Plug Ins/Extensions/ and then change the extensions for the following two files from .8BX to .old:

– MMXCore.8bx
– FastCore.8bx

They should read MMXCore.old and FastCore.old. Note that in 7.0, the folder resides in "Adobe Photoshop Only" within /Plug-Ins.

Because MMX technology was used only in P3 chips, it is hindering newer P4 chips, especially those with the latest HT technology, from reaching optimum efficiency with Photoshop. In some cases, like in mine and a few others, Photoshop (7 and CS) will crash unexpectedly, and/or be much slower than necessary.

As soon as I made this fix, Photoshop sang like never before. It was so much faster with the P4 chip than it had been when trying to use MMX technology. And it has yet to crash.

Trust me – fix it and you’ll have a much faster and more stable Photoshop experience! ADOBE TAKE NOTE!

Dave in Virginia
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 15, 2004
David – NO, you just got handed a load of crap from some clueless flunkie at HP (hardware engineers would know better).

They still have defective hardware in the laptop, and they still need to contact Adobe to determine what they screwed up (beyond the line of crap they just fed you).

The code in MMXCore includes MMX, SSE, and SSE2 code – all of which works just fine on Pentium4 and was developed with Intel’s help. It isn’t hindering anything — most likely the error is occuring because the code in MMXCore is moving memory too fast for the motherboard to handle (as happened with the ASUS and Dell motherboards in the past).

Yes, disabling MMXCore will let you run with fewer errors – but it’s still hiding a serious hardware defect, and it will still lock up from time to time because the defect is still there.

You need to immediately contact HP, find the manager of the "engineer" you spoke to – and have them contact me directly.
DB
David_B_Farmer
Apr 15, 2004
Chris,

I can assure you that I know the difference between a ‘clueless flunkie’ and an experienced, knowledgeable hardware engineer. It wasn’t a "line of crap"…it was a long, steady process of trial and error over a matter of weeks, until the solution was found.

Yes, the problem is a hardware problem…that is not in dispute. It’s just that Photoshop was searching for a particular function in my particular hardware that just wasn’t there, and when it did so, it resulted in a shut down. The bonus to the "fix" described above is that PS runs quite a bit faster, now that it is freed up to use the HT technology in my 3.2mhz chip.

All I really know is this: I’ve been working diligently with qualified people at HP who took a serious interest in why their top-o-the-line notebook was not allowing a prized software package to run correctly. Never did they say it was an Adobe problem, even though it could be argued that Adobe should look into this on their side.

If you note my first post in this thread, it was a few weeks back, and I just received the fix to my problem yesterday, after some agonizing hours trying to troubleshoot the problem. I had even gotten the packaging for the computer out to prepare it for a return.

After doing the simple task as described in my previous post, Photoshop has yet to crash – and I have tried very hard. I am once again a very happy and satisfied user.

I would like to hear from other zd7000 owners to see if this fix also works for them. Or any P4 user who is experiencing the occasional shut down.

Thanks,
Dave
KP
Ken_Pratt
Apr 15, 2004
David,

I have no doubt that the work around is working for you as described but you may want to consider the following.

There must be many thousands of users of 7.01 and CS who run with Pentium 4 processors without crashing.

As you have said there is an inherent hardware fault in your laptop and this may well conflict with other applications in the future.

If it were me I would at the very least have the guy call Chris Cox to have the matter settled but would be much happier with another machine. It seems a nice simple get out for HP and it is very reasureing that Chris has offered to help HP resolve their problem using his knowledge of the inner workings of Photoshop.

Regards,
Ken
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 15, 2004
It’s just that Photoshop was searching for a particular function in my particular hardware that just wasn’t there

no, it’s was searching for a particular function in your particular hardware that just wasn’t WORKING correctly.

After doing the simple task as described in my previous post, Photoshop has yet to crash

becasue you’ve disabled some of the more advanced features of the application.

I would like to hear from other zd7000 owners to see if this fix also works for them.

It’s not a fix, it’s a workaround for hardware problems that’s been around since version 7… see the faq (then follow the tech link):

Mathias Vejerslev "Computer locks up, shuts down, or reboots while running Photoshop" 6/5/03 4:49pm </cgi-bin/webx?13/1>
GH
Grass_Hopper
Apr 15, 2004
David,

Im sure you must know by now who Chris Cox is and why he is so interested in this issue? If not, you might find these an interesting read.

History of Photoshop <http://www.schewephoto.com/pei/pshistory.pdf>

Info on Chris < http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?224@@ee6b75d@.2cd134 24/0> available by clicking his name in this forum.

regards,
grasshopper
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 15, 2004
David – no, you got fed a line of crap, plain and simple. If they were qualified, they would not have lied to you like that. This is not an Adobe problem, and I HAVE been looking into it as best I can (without talking directly to an engineer at HP).

I REALLY NEED to get the name of the person at HP that you worked with, and I need his supervisor/manager/superior to contact me directly. Please, even if you think that your "solution" is correct – I still need to talk to them.

A few corrections:
MMX is present in the Pentium 4, Pentium 3, Pentium 2, back to the P55c Pentium with MMX chip. It will be present in all future x86 compatible CPUs.
MMXCore doesn’t prevent the P4 from using hyperthreading in any way. The Hyperthreading code is in MP Support, and is enabled on HyperThreaded chips, regardless of MMX, SSE, SSE2, or SSE3 support.

The hardware error is on the motherboard (most likely in the power supply to the PCU and Northbridge chips, as we’ve seen on other defective motherboards).

You have not fixed the problem at all, you have just made the problem occur less often by slowing down Photoshop.

Please put me in contact with the people at HP that you worked with so we can get this fixed properly.
CK
Christine_Krof_Shock
Apr 15, 2004
Chris…

Could Gateways (Hateways…cuz i hate da way they work) have the same defect? E-4100 series?
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 15, 2004
Christine – it’s possible. But unless lots of people with the same model are seeing the problem, bad RAM is more likely.
CK
Christine_Krof_Shock
Apr 16, 2004
Everything is bad with these…drivers…overheating…etc. so I figured this could be another trouble spot. Gateway’s tech support is slim and none, and slim is on vacation!
RS
Robin_Schreiber
Apr 16, 2004
I have a Dell Optiplex GX 150 with 512 RAM and I am having the same problem and my IT folks are totally baffled. It sounds like several people with different brands of computers are also experiencing this. How can this not be an Adobe issue? Is all our hardware that lousy that none of us can get Photoshop to work?
DN
DS_Nelson
Apr 16, 2004
Is all our hardware that lousy that none of us can get Photoshop to work?

No, it’s that Photoshop exercises hardware more thoroughly than most any software commercially available. An analogy might be, if there’s a defect in a tire, it won’t fail at 20 mph but it probably will fail at 90 mph. That doesn’t mean that driving 90 mph is the root cause of the tire failure.

And, Photoshop is working fine for many of us.
L
LenHewitt
Apr 16, 2004
The Optiplex is known to have a motherboard fault…
HK
Harron_K._Appleman
Apr 16, 2004
An analogy might be, if there’s a defect in a tire, it won’t fail at 20 mph but it probably will fail at 90 mph. That doesn’t mean that driving 90 mph is the root cause of the tire failure.

And to push the analogy, if you complain to the tire manufacturer and he installs a governor on your engine to prevent you from driving faster than, say, 75 mph, would you accept that as a "fix"?

=-= Harron =-=
GH
Grass_Hopper
Apr 16, 2004
I like the tire and governor analogies πŸ™‚
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 16, 2004
The older problem was the Dell Optiplex GX1 with a Pentium 3 processor. I haven’t seen any reports about the GX150.

But you can get similar behavior on any computer with bad RAM, and sometimes with other bad hardware (video card or chip, drive controller, etc.).

And there’s a reason this is covered in the forum FAQ.

As for it not being Photoshop: I’ve personally worked with the Intel, Dell, ASUS and other engineers to track the problem down to the hardware defect on several motherboards. And I’ve talked to many of the customers who tracked it down to bad RAM. In no case to date have we (or others) found it be caused by software. And under Windows NT/2K/XP it should be nearly impossible for application software to cause a system shutdown or reset.
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 20, 2004
Well, HP tech support is misdirecting my calls pretty effectively.

It really would help if David told me who he talked to so we could continue his support request and get the issue solved correctly.
AL
Adam_Lane
Apr 20, 2004
It is not unheard of for Photoshop to bring out a hardware failure.

I have a Dell Inspiron 8000 with a ATI Mobility M4 video chipset.

When my video acceleration is set to full, sometimes working on Photoshop will crash my video card. The computer halts, and the LCD video screen slowly fades to white…the video chip stops scanning video to the LCD!

I turned the video acceleration off when running Photoshop to solve the problem.

And now, a rant.

HP’s comments burn me up. One should not have to tolerate such lies after purchasing a new computer.

I, too, would like to know who at HP said that crap about some instructions that are ‘old and have to be avoided on modern machines’. Wow. I would like that person’s manager to hear what they said; if there is any justice, they should not be in technical support.

My guess: this laptop model has a serious power related problem. Photoshop loads the CPU as much as it can, causing it to eat a great deal of power. A signal somewhere in those 80 million transistors goes under voltage, outside of the acceptible ranges for determining the difference between "1" and "0" and a massive logical failure ensues. A motherboard redesign may be in order.

If you run the laptop on Batteries, it may help. This could reduce the clock speed, reduce power drain, and the undervoltage situation may not occur.

It may not be easy, but I would press for a complete refund and buy another model.
RT
Richard_Truscott
Apr 23, 2004
So that Robin doesn’t feel left out, I too have a Dell Optiplex GX 150 that throws a rod and reboots while performing certain functions in Photoshop. Is this problem terminal? Should I be asking IT to replace my PC?
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 23, 2004
Yes, it means you probably have a bad motherboard and need to replace the motherboard or the PC (there is a chance it’s just bad RAM – but the model is too close for cooincidence). Contact Dell about the motherboard.
TH
theresa_homen
Apr 27, 2004
I’ve had the same frustrating problem with my HP PAVILLION ZD 7000–using photoshop 6 and now using the ps cs tryout version. Let me know what you have found out please.

theresa
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 27, 2004
Theresa – as already noted, that model has a hardware defect. I still have not gotten a good contact within HP to work on it.

Your best bet is to return it as defective and get a different model.
T
tric75
May 3, 2004
Hi folks,

Pavillion zd7000: exact same problem here! I’ve read the messages here and the bottom line seems to be that it is a hardware problem, and that one eventually has to send back the laptop and get a 1.) refund or 2.) replace some hardware (like RAM). Question: did anybody successfully do that? How did you get HP to do it?.

Another question. How do you deal with the fact of not having a machine to work with when it has been sent to HP? This is a huge problem for me since i’m an independent Webdesigner with ONE machine only (and EVERYTHING is done with it). Anybody some idea?
DH
Dale_Hansen1
May 26, 2004
Has anyone heard any news on what HP is doing if anything. I also have the same computer with the same problem.
Dale
CC
Chris_Cox
May 26, 2004
No, I still haven’t been able to get ahold of the right people at HP.
W
WILLYPR
May 29, 2004
I also bought this computer to run Photoshop CS. Seems like the best thing is to return it and get a refund. Its a shame because I love the features in this machine.

Can anyone tell me which notebook is the best for running Photoshop CS in Windows?
W
WILLYPR
Jun 1, 2004
Chris, any luck with the HP enginners?
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 2, 2004
Still no luck. And I’ve got multiple channels attempting to contact them.

(unfortunately, I also have jury duty πŸ˜‰
W
WILLYPR
Jun 6, 2004
Does anyone with this problem got a solution for this?
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 6, 2004
yes. get a refund and a different laptop.
W
WILLYPR
Jun 7, 2004
I made a test today running the notebook with batteries and photoshop worked fine. When I hooked the AC the problem started again.
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 7, 2004
power supply? something overheating? same answer as above. there’s not much tweaking you can do with a notebook, and you shouldn’t do any if the machine’s under warrenty. good catch though.
WH
Will_Heflin
Jun 8, 2004
Hey everyone, I’m still around. haven’t checked this board in awhile.

man I’m surprised at how many people seem to be having the same problem as me! Luckily I’m not working with photoshop as much as I was before so the problem has not occurred recently. Doesn’t seem to screw around in Illustrator (or at least not yet!).

It’s a shame that I have to consider sending this thing back, I can’t get in touch with anyone who can help me with this issue. The only thing I’ve been able to do if prevent it from happening as often, using some friends advice, and advice I’ve received through this board.

Besides this photoshop problem my computer works great, and is overall a very good machine. It frustrates me that the HP people are such a hassle to deal with, both for myself and everyone on here trying to get in touch with them. Including Chris (who I must say is doing a marvelous job keeping the communication lines open, unlike HP, heh).

I’m going to hold on to my PC I think, I don’t experience the issue enough to make me want to send it back. It just gets really frustrating sometimes. Darn you HP!
W
WILLYPR
Jun 8, 2004
Will, I know how you feel…. I also think is a good machine. Today I stopped two buyer from buying the same notebook in Costco. They where going to use it with Photoshop. I will keep giving advise to people from buying this machine until HP solve the problem.

Maybe we should send a letter to Fiorina, President and CEO of HP,with a copy of all this thread!

Chris, what you think?
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 9, 2004
more noise at hp certainly couldn’t hurt. when i came on board here there were problems with ps 6 crashing some dells. dell finally acknowled a problem with a specific motherboard and offered free repairs and replacements. it’s still in the FAQ, I believe… something like "computer locks up running photoshop" and the boards were asus p3b, i think.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 10, 2004
Will – we are escalating problem with HP. It hasn’t gotten to the CEO level yet.
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 10, 2004
next time you do lunch with Carly you shoul bring it up chris… XD
W
WILLYPR
Jun 10, 2004
Chris, I know you have jury duty and haven’t got the time to deal with this, but, Isn’t there, in Adobe, somebody else who can deal with this problem with HP?
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 10, 2004
Someone else is trying to handle the escalation – but in the end, I have to talk to one of their engineers.
W
WILLYPR
Jun 15, 2004
Well, I finally decided to return the machine for a refund. I think I’m going to buy a Sony VAIO.

Good Luck to the rest of you that still have the problem.
DL
Darren_Luvaas
Jun 15, 2004
Well, consider me a member of the club. Just like, Aaron, David, Wil, Kenny, Theresa, tric75, Dale, and WILLYPR, I am the (proud?) owner of the HP Pavilion zd7000. I make a living using Photoshop and have nearly reached the end of my patience with this problem. I’m going to try to get in touch with HP myself, but (based on what I have read on this forum), I won’t be holding my breath.

An interesting note, possibly helpful to Chris: I have file that seems to cause the system shutdown EVERY SINGLE TIME I ATTEMPT TO OPEN IT using ImageReady. I know troubleshooting can be a huge pain in the butt when it’s not possible to consistently reproduce the problem. Let me know if I (or my file) can be of some assistance, Chris. Thank God for you, man. Give ’em hell.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 15, 2004
Darren – thanks, that’s a useful tip on reproducing the problem.

Now I just need an HP Engineer with a digital scope to watch it happen…..
DL
Darren_Luvaas
Jun 15, 2004
Okay, I just got off the phone with Brian at HP. I tried to convey to him as much information as I could of what I have gleamed from this thread and I promised him that I would post a synopsis of what I have learned to the forum. The (pseudo) fix follows:

In spite of my arguing to the contrary, HP is still insisting that this is NOT a hardware issue and that it has everything to do with Adobe’s failure to handle hyperthreading correctly. It seems that the Pavilion zd7000 uses the relatively new hyperthreading technology that causes the notebook to behave somewhat like a dual processor machine. I didn’t want to waste too much energy trying to debate whether or not software should cause a hardware shutdown like this, so thatΒ’s still an open question as far as IΒ’m concerned.

Brian gave me the same fix that I have already seen in this forum thread: That is, to basically get rid of (or rename) the files named FastCore.8BX and MMXCore.8BX from the Adobe plug-ins folder. As instructed, I went to

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS\Plug-Ins\Extensions

and simply renamed them to FastCore.8BX.old and MMXCore.8BX.old.

Rename the files then restart the machine. The problem seems to go away.

Sure enough my machine is no longer turning off randomly. Unfortunately, I have seen the aforementioned degradation in performance as well (Photoshop and ImageReady seem to start up much slower now). Otherwise, though, the problem seems to have gone away, and I can now continue to make a living using Photoshop and my Pavilion zd7000. In fact, the problem file that consistently caused the error every time I opened it seems to no longer be causing any problems at all. Also, this machine is so much faster than any other machine I have ever used with Photoshop that I think I can live with the slow down–until a real fix is released (by either Adobe or HP), of course. Note that I have only been working with the fix for about 10 minutes, so itΒ’s entirely possible that the problem will resurface. If I run into any more issues, though, I will be sure to post to this list.

There is definitely some back and forth here, with Adobe saying its hardware and HP saying its software, and I feel a little bit like the middleman. I completely agree with Chris that the only way to get to the bottom of this once and for all is to get Adobe and HP talking to each other. I argued this over and over with Brian at HP and finally got him to concede that a dialog would be mutually beneficial to all concerned parties.

Chris, I gave Brian your name and both your mindspring and adobe email addresses. He wouldnΒ’t give me his own email address (security reasons), but he added a note to my case file with your contact info. So, if you call HP at 1-800-474-6836 and reference my case file (#7311695507) I was promised that you would be directed to Brian or some other engineer who would be willing to work with you directly. I am also standing by (and am within driving distance of Adobe headquarters) if I can help in any way. I suppose I can even make my machine available for testing purposes.

I hope this helps everyone on this list, and I canΒ’t thank Chris enough for working so diligently on this issue. Adobe has always been my friend, and your efforts help to futher cement the relationship!

Many Thanks!
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 15, 2004
<Golf clap for Darren>

way to go man!
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 15, 2004
"Brian" gave you a load of crap.
Removing MMXCore just slows down Photoshop so that the fault doesn’t occur as often. But the shutdowns will still occur sometimes, because you still have defective hardware.

But I’ll try giving them a call.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 15, 2004
Wow – I think I got ahold of the right people.
IL
Ian_Lyons
Jun 15, 2004
ahold

Not to tight or you could be on the receiving end of a jury πŸ˜‰
DL
Darren_Luvaas
Jun 15, 2004
Wo-hoo! Right on, Chris! You da man! What did they say?
W
WILLYPR
Jun 15, 2004
eehhmm, Ok, I think I’m going to hold the return of the machine for a few more days. πŸ˜‰
EG
Elsie_Gilmore
Jun 18, 2004
Hey folks. I’m yet another HP Pavilion owner who makes my living with Photoshop and has that nasty shut-down problem. I emailed HP and got this response:

Thank you for contacting HP Total Care.

I understand that the notebook is shutting down while using Adobe Photoshop CS after some time without any warning message. This is due to a scratch disk usage and can be resolved by increasing the size of the scratch disk. The instructions to increase the scratch disk is provided in the following Web site:

< http://www.adobe.co.uk/support/toptech/photoshop/311963/main .html>

NOTE: The URL above will take you to a non HP Web site. HP does not control and is not responsible for information outside of the HP Web site.

I am sure the Web site will help resolve the issue. If you have further questions, please reply to this message and we will be happy to help you.

…. any comments on this? I looked at it, and it looks like a horrible fix that would use up a large portion of my hard drive.
DL
Darren_Luvaas
Jun 18, 2004
Sounds like the same utter BS that HP has been feeding everyone else to distract us from the fact that the Pavilion has a hardware issue. It’s just a different flavor of BS.

Still waiting to hear back from Chris Cox on what he learned from his conversation with HP. Hopefully he has some good news for us. In the meantime, Elsie, rename the MMX files (as described elsewhere in this thread) and Photoshop will work for you until a real fix is released (if ever).

I have found two other forums on exactly this same problem. It is abundantly clear that this is not a Photoshop issue and that the pavilion has problems with a number of other programs as well.

< http://www.zd7000forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=396&start=10 5>

< http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do? threadId=614846>
DN
DS_Nelson
Jun 18, 2004
It sounds like since HP swallowed Compaq, they’ve become more like Compaq, instead of Compaq becoming more like the now-extinct HP of old. Sad.
MM
Mick_Murphy
Jun 18, 2004
Given that this is definitely a hardware problem, the only solution for those unfortunate people who have bought this machine is to try to get a refund if they will give it. You can’t fix a hardware problem with a patch. Even if Chris Cos manages to talk to somebody important in HP, what is that actually going to do? Maybe they will eventually admit it’s a hardware problem and recall the machine but that is unlikely.
HK
Harron_K._Appleman
Jun 18, 2004
Even if Chris Cos manages to talk to somebody important in HP, what is that actually going to do?

It might make it possible for those unfortunate people to get refunds without too much hassle.

=-= Harron =-=
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 19, 2004
Well, someone from HP tried to call me back – but the phone number he left was wrong (disconnected).
MA
Martin_Abelson
Jun 21, 2004
MA
Martin_Abelson
Jun 21, 2004
I suspect you are having what would seem to be a relatively common problem with Photoshop CS. It is hard to say what causes this, but, it manifests itself on my machine and that of other users who are not using laptops as something that looks like a memory problem. What is interesting is that I have two gigabytes of RAM and it happens to me.
I have contacted Adobe support and we have tried the whole litany of suggested repairs (you can download several pages which relate to fixes for crashes.) We have tried some things not listed as well. It still happens.
I note that as of June Adobe offers a download to fix refresh problems (which it warns may actually slow down processsing if you have more than one gig of memory). I am going to try it anyway. The alternative is to put up with a situation where you never know where or how your system will lock up completely in the middle of a PShop session!
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 21, 2004
I suspect you are having what would seem to be a relatively common problem with Photoshop CS.

I suspect you haven’t read this whole thread that explains that it deals with a problem effecting a specific model of laptop. If you’re having a problem on your system, please start a new thread and give us as many specifics about your setup as possible.
NB
Norbert_Bissinger
Jun 21, 2004
Well not every thing is PSCS. I had my XP shut down several times ’till I found the problem. I had the Sasser Worm. Also a driver which comes with Easy CD & DVD creator 6 does some times shut down XP. Download the fix from Roxio.

<http://oca.microsoft.com/en/Response.asp?SID=986>
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 21, 2004
I had the Sasser Worm

those BAStards! πŸ™‚

(I hate virus writers. "Use your powers for good, not evil.")
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 22, 2004
Some good news – I think I’m talking to the right people, finally.
HK
Harron_K._Appleman
Jun 23, 2004
Could you wangle free replacement laptops even for those of us who never bought one?
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 23, 2004
Harron – I kinda doubt that….
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 25, 2004
HP Begins Voluntary Replacement Plan for Notebooks < http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581& e=2&u=/nm/20040625/tc_nm/tech_hewlettpackard_dc>

this looks interesting.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 25, 2004
Hmm, that’s too soon for my investigations.

Unless they found problems through other channels….
HK
Harron_K._Appleman
Jun 25, 2004
Too bad. I was really hoping what HP called "routine testing" was PR-speak for the Wrath of Cox.

(Nice find, Dave.)
JS
Jeanne_Schlesinger
Jun 25, 2004
I just read Dave’s message above – #89. Thank you!!! Maybe I’m not crazy…

I also have an HP Pavillion zd7000. It has an 80 GB hard drive, 1 GB SDRAM and 128 NVIDIA. The computer crashed 99% of the time, but not always, when I used the magic wand tool and rotated an image on a second layer in Photoshop. As a photographer printing my own work, I need to be able to do that regularly. My attempt to get help through HP was completely fruitless.

I talked to someone helpful at Adobe and he said it sounded like a hardware problem in the computer or a conflict with another hardware device driver. I uninstalled Nikon’s Coolscan 4000 last week and the problem disappeared….or so I thought. Last night I used the magic wand tool and it started crashing again! This problem is infuriating and I didn’t know where to turn, until I read Dave’s post. Again, thank you so much!
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 25, 2004
Jeanne – first, get the MP Support update for Photoshop CS (it fixes a problem with the magic wand).

But as you can see in the rest of this thread, there is likely still a problem with the zd7000.
JS
Jeanne_Schlesinger
Jun 25, 2004
Thanks, Chris. I’ll start with the update and if I still have problems, I’ll stock up on lots of snacks, reading materials, and spend a few hours on hold with HP…
JS
Jeanne_Schlesinger
Jun 26, 2004
Chris – The update helped for a little while, but then the computer started crashing again. I guess need to call HP now. Any suggestions on how to get to someone quickly who can really help me? The last time I called them, they transferred me around to 4 different groups even though they knew from the start what kind of laptop I had. The fourth person finally told me the area handling custom-built laptops wasn’t accepting calls that day and to call back a day or two later. This is so FRUSTRATING!!! My machine shut down two times last night and I have work I need to do this weekend.
SB
Scott_Byer
Jun 26, 2004
The HP 7000 is indeed one of the laptop models listed as possibly having the bad memory modules, and the problem as described here could definitely be related – the symptoms are expected to be the machine BSODing or shutting down, and the Magic Wand has triggered hardware memory problems in the past.

See <http://www.hp.com/support/memoryreplacement/>

And remember, when Chris says it’s a hardware issue, he’s right (I was going to say "just about always right", but that just wouldn’t be true).

Martin, the lockup on your 2GB system is almost certainly a hardware issue. Applications *cannot* crash or otherwise bring down a system – it takes a driver or hardware issue to do that.

-Scott
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 26, 2004
Orders for this program must be received from 25 June 2004 through 31 December 2004.

better get hopping people! christmas is right around the corner!!!
JS
Jeanne_Schlesinger
Jun 26, 2004
Scott – thanks for the link to hp. Unfortunately, I just ran their diagnostic and it didn’t idenify my computerd two images open in Photoshop and tried to copy one onto a new layer in the other one.

Do you know a way to get to anyone at HP who will do more than say it is Adobe’s problem?

Thanks…Jeanne
JS
Jeanne_Schlesinger
Jun 26, 2004
Scott – thanks for the link to hp. Unfortunately, I just ran their diagnostic and it didn’t idenify my computer as one of the problem ones. Yet an hour ago, I had two images open in Photoshop and tried to copy one onto a new layer in the other one, which caused the computer to shut down without warning.

Do you know a way to get to anyone at HP who will do more than say it is Adobe’s problem?

Thanks…Jeanne
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 26, 2004
Jeanne – I’m working with a few people at HP to track down the problem with the zd7000.

The lockup/shutdown/restart is the real hardware problem.

The application crashes were the result of bugs in the MP Support plugin (fixed by the updated plugin).
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 26, 2004
fixed by the updated plugin

there’s a fix for the fix? or the fix that’s been there for a couple of weeks fixes the original shipping plug-in? please clarify chris. if the fix has been patched I need to download and update again.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 26, 2004
The fix that has been there for weeks and fixes the original plugin.
JS
Jeanne_Schlesinger
Jun 26, 2004
Chris – I was told by a colleague that I don’t have a multiprocessor on my zd7000. Is that incorrect? I’m fairly proficient with software, but not with hardware! Which is why this is doubly annoying.

I have come into my office to work on some images in Photoshop, then I’ll have to save them and take them home to print them on a decent color printer. It’s time consuming, but at least I have another computer to use.

Thanks for working with HP. I really appreciate it. I’ll stay tuned…
CC
Chris_Cox
Jun 26, 2004
Jeanne – no, because you have a HyperThreaded processor – it acts like 2 processors.
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 27, 2004
The fix that has been there for weeks and fixes the original plugin.

<roland, the gunslinger>Thankee Sai. Cry pardon.</roland> πŸ™‚
RK
Ronald_Keller
Jun 27, 2004
Applications *cannot* crash or otherwise bring down a system – it takes a driver or hardware issue to do that.

I have read this statement very often but I wonder if it is really true. I have two Windows 2000 computers and all was well until I updated to SP4. Since then one of the computers gave a BSOD (tcpip.sys) when transferring large files over the network. After much research I found out that Wingate was the culprit. I upgraded Wingate to a more recent version and now all is well again.
It probably IS driver related but to a simple user like me it sure looks like Wingate is the offender…

Greetings from Belgium

Ronald
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 27, 2004
I have read this statement very often but I wonder if it is really true.

it is in a process isolated OS like XP or win2k. Not true for win9x or me where everything ran in the same address space.

Since then one of the computers gave a BSOD (tcpip.sys)

a driver. chris’ statement stands. and a bsod is precisely what you’d expect from an errant driver. note that you diferentiate a driver from a regular "application" in that a driver accesses hardware directly or via api operating system calls. so they run at a more privelaged level than a standard app (like photoshop or mozilla, for example). a full on lockup is most likely bad hardware (or rarely bios settings).

Wingate is the offender…

no, the driver wingate uses to talk to the hardware (tcpip.sys is an internet protocol driver) failed. that caused wingate to fail. most applications (as described above) don’t talk to the hardware that way.
L
LenHewitt
Jun 27, 2004
Dave,

I have known BIOS settings give BSOD’s too – one machine my son had, setting the AGP Aperture size to greater than 64 would cause a BSOD whenever the floppy drive was accessed.
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 28, 2004
that’s interesting. should I try it on my machine?… hmm… nah. I trust you! πŸ™‚
WH
Will_Heflin
Jun 28, 2004
just a side note, but it is the HP Compaq Business Notebook nx7000 which is listed as having the bad module, and I believe most of us are speaking of the HP Pavilion zd7000 with the crashing problem. At least that’s the computer I was talking about initially with this thread. Don’t know if that matters much, but just clarifying!

Hope something comes up soon for this model soon.
RK
Ronald_Keller
Jun 28, 2004
no, the driver wingate uses to talk to the hardware (tcpip.sys is an internet protocol driver) failed. that caused wingate to fail

OK, but that looks like saying "Honestly Judge, I did not kill that man, it was the gun I used"… πŸ™‚

Ronald
DM
dave_milbut
Jun 28, 2004
OK, but that looks like saying "Honestly Judge, I did not kill that man, it was the gun I used"…

I don’t pretend to understand the interaction between aperature and focal lengths, shutter speeds etc., so I see where some would be confused or not totally clear on the difference between an application and a driver (or an application that uses a driver). πŸ˜‰
AP
Adrian Pinderhughes
Jun 30, 2004
I dont have an HP. But this is a vey interesting thread.
D
DatAsian
Jun 30, 2004
If nothing seems to work, start disabling things in the BIOS. Maybe Hyperthread support and such and see if anything ticks. If it doesn’t go back in and turn it on πŸ™‚
XE
Xag_Estri
Jul 2, 2004
ANSWER TO PROBLEM:::

No need to change bios, no ram problem, its all adobe.

I went through HP with this one, and it is an ADOBE problem not HP – and it is also a problem with several other computers.

Adobe, being smart, decided to put options to make it work faster aka. crash.

To fix this problem

Adobe CS: Locate your adobe folder then follow this path

Adobe\Photoshop CS\Plug-Ins\Extensions\

Here you will see 3 files ( these are the problem files )

Rename the extension to .OLD or something other than .8BX and thats it. Try photoshop out.

I was crashing every time I resized, half the time I used magic wand, and 90% of the time I used vector. Now I just tested by resizing my canvas to 10000 pixels x 10000 with vector resized as well and magic wand on 3 bg effects.. No crash as of yet.

Hope this helps someone.

Xag Estri

* ************* Life is short, enjoy it.
L
LenHewitt
Jul 2, 2004
Xag,

That doesn’t fix the problem, merely reduces the frequency of crashes. You have a HARDWARE problem. What you HAVE done is reduce Photoshop’s performance. Although you see crashes whilst using Photoshop, it can also happen with other programs too, you need to get the hardware fixed.
B
BobLevine
Jul 2, 2004
That is not a fix, it’s a band-aid approach. HP has recently gone so far as to recall some of their computers because of hardware problems. The problem is with the HP machines.

Doing as you say will minimize the crashes but it will also slow PS down.

Bob
XE
Xag_Estri
Jul 2, 2004
Thanks for the info, I will call hp, and dell I guess since it is on their machine as well.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 4, 2004
XAG – please read what has already been written.

What you said is 100% incorrect (and doing a lot more harm than good).

All you’ve done is make Photoshop slower and thus stress the hardware less, and thus the hardware fails a little less often. But it will still fail.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 8, 2004
Update: No resolution yet, but at least Adobe and HP are talking.
JS
Jeanne_Schlesinger
Jul 8, 2004
Chris – I talked to a case manager at HP late last week who is going to try to connect with the right person. I gave him your name and info. from the forum posts on this problem, so you may get contacted as a result. I’ll let you know when I hear something new. Thanks for all your help. – Jeanne
KH
k_hoffman
Jul 10, 2004
I have a HP 7000 3.2 with 1 gig of ram. I am constantly having my computer crash, completely, to OFF when using Photoshop CS. When I called HP they did not allude to and issues. If you have a case # I can refer to I’d appreciate it. I have tried everything and for know have uninstalled CS and put PS 7 back on. Hopefully a resolution can be found because I prefer CS. Thanks for any help……
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 11, 2004
k – read the existing posts in this thread….

And using 7 won’t help a bit.
KH
k_hoffman
Jul 11, 2004
Chris,

I’ve reinstalled PS 7 and have used it for the past day with no problems. (fingers crossed) With CS when I used the photemerge command it would shut down when I hit the button to complete the merge. I was able to duplicate it everytime, even for an HP tech. They had me run the recovery concole chkdsk /r and then try reinstalling CS. It did not work…..Anyway, I’m going to try PS 7 for a while to see if I get any problems. Hopefully a fix is in order from either HP or Adobe. Thanks….

K
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 12, 2004
You’ll have similar problems in Photoshop 7 – as soon as you do something with an optimized memory move….

HP is looking into the problem, but it appears to be in the hardware.
KH
k_hoffman
Jul 13, 2004
I called HP tonight and said they had a fix. Go to: program files/adobe/photoshop cs/plugins/extensions

Once there rename fastcore.8bx and mmxcore.8bx to fastcore.old and mmxcore.old

Thats It!!!

Haven’t we heard this before!!!!??? Anyway, this is the fix according to HP. Good luck……

K
DM
dave_milbut
Jul 13, 2004
this isn’t a fix. it’s a band aid. it turns off photoshop’s access to the faulty hardware. they’re hoping you go away until your warrenty runs out…
B
BobLevine
Jul 13, 2004
Haven’t we heard this before!!!!???

Yes, we have. And it’s still a crock.

Bob
DM
dave_milbut
Jul 13, 2004
just to repeat, hp users with lockup problems should go here:

HP Memory Module Replacement Program < http://h30090.www3.hp.com/mmrp/default.asp?c1=82&c2=82&a mp;cc=ca&lang=en&action=showinfo&linkvalue=2&amp ;id=63&lid=147>

download and run the utility (even if your system isn’t listed) and check for bad memory. hopefully it’s not coded to only run on the listed systems… maybe an hp user can confirm this.

and remember, you only have to the end of this year to get the fix! after that the policy expires.

dave
KH
k_hoffman
Jul 14, 2004
Dave,

Just curious, you say its a "band aid" approach due to faulty hardware. Before the change I was able to duplicate the shutdown everytime. Since making the change I’ve had no problems at all. Also, I never had any problems with any other progam except CS. What "faulty hardware" am I not taking advantage of? Right now I see no difference in anything CS is doing, except it now Works!

K
DM
dave_milbut
Jul 14, 2004
What "faulty hardware" am I not taking advantage of? Right now I see no difference in anything CS is doing, except it now Works!

you’re keeping your ps from access some of the higher end portions of your cpu, essentially crippling it. don’t believe me, but you should believe the developers (chris for starters).

look i don’t really care. i’m telling you you need to get it fixed before your warrenty runs out, cuz it’s only going to get worse. MY system works with everything enabled. does yours? wait… i know the answer to that.

<shrug>
DG
duncan_green
Jul 14, 2004
dave the hp memory replacement is for specific models , also the utility is only going to run on those models , i have a zd7000 and know from experience that since it is not on the list they dont be live that line has the faulty memory , i have contacted hp and they told me to band aid to at least get debugable data , that the error may also be related to windows xp and 2000 method of using hard drive space as virtual ram , thats what i have been told . it may be a hardware error , but rember that so far only adobe photoshop has initiated the issue unless someone can tell me of another program.

hp has also hinted it may be simply that at the moment the function or driver at fault is used that causes the hardware crash it may be related to the fact that there is hypertheading pentium 4 chips in these laptops , i was told although higly unlikely that a combination of motherboard interface and cpu timing instructions threads recombine incorrectly and data is unable to be interperted resulting in an auto shutdown to protect the cpu from damage ,again hp told me this is highly unlikely because adobe probably tested at least once with a pentium 4 hyperthreading cpu .
DM
dave_milbut
Jul 15, 2004
also the utility is only going to run on those models

have you tried it?

i have contacted hp and they told me to band aid to at least get debugable data

THAT’S reasonable. But not as a final fix! and if all it "band aids" is to get it to the point where it’s past the warrenty, then that’s pretty crummy of them to boot.

so far only adobe photoshop has initiated the issue unless someone can tell me of another program.

photoshop taxes your system and touches obscure bits of hardware far more than any other app you can run (for the money) including most of the standard 3d renderers.

again hp told me this is highly unlikely because adobe probably tested at least once with a pentium 4 hyperthreading cpu .

right. and i’m running a hyperthreaded cpu (p4 2.8c) off an intel d865perl mobo with a gig of pc3200 400mhz ram. flawlessly. the fact that it happens on a large percentage of their notebooks and NOT to most other users is indicative of a fault on THEIR systems. whether they’re acknowleging it yet or not.

hopefully chris’ll be able to nail it down with his hp contact. i hope so for you guys who’ve shelled out good $$$ for a system that doesn’t work the way it’s supposed to. i know I’D be royally pissed. all i can suggest is keep bitching at hp until they do something about it!

good luck, dave
KH
k_hoffman
Jul 15, 2004
Dave,

When my warranty runs out in 3 years I’ll become concerned. By then I’m sure the fix will be in order, HP or PS. Either way this "fix" will at least allow others to use CS for now. HP told me that the problem has to do with their system and how it interacts with CS. CS works with my other two computers, Compaq 2.33ghz and Sony 2 ghz without any problems. Soooooooo I’m sure it is HP related butttttt if this fix gets me by until a true fix is in place, I’m not losing any sleep, my computer is under warranty.

K
DM
dave_milbut
Jul 15, 2004
good for you k.
HK
Harron_K._Appleman
Jul 15, 2004
Analogies have been suggested to explain the situation, and I’ll trot out my favorite.

A certain brand of tire rated to 100 MPH fails at 90 MPH when installed on certain vehicles, but one vehicle in particular. The tire manufacturer blames the car manufacturer because the failure is largely unnoticed or unreported when the tire is used with other vehicles. The car manufacturer blames the tire manufacturer because the tire simply fails to meet specifications.

The tire manufacturer, in an attempt to avoid a costly recall, offers a "fix." By removing a certain fuse from the vehicle’s electrical panel, the car can be governed to go no faster than 85 MPH, thus "solving the problem."

Amazingly, some consumers are mollified — even delighted — by this solution.

=-= Harron =-=
RM
Rick Moore
Jul 15, 2004
If you never go faster than 85, how would you know it’s not a fix?

Rick Moore
Barnes Gromatzky Kosarek Architects
www.bgkarchitects.com
HK
Harron_K._Appleman
Jul 15, 2004
If you never go faster than 85, it matters not whether or not it is a fix. You wouldn’t care one way or the other.
HK
Harron_K._Appleman
Jul 15, 2004
Yes.
RM
Rick Moore
Jul 15, 2004
I believe that is k_hoffman’s point

Rick Moore
Barnes Gromatzky Kosarek Architects
www.bgkarchitects.com

If you never go faster than 85, it matters not whether or not it is a fix.
You wouldn’t care one way or the other.
CK
Christine_Krof_Shock
Jul 15, 2004
However, the one time you absolutely have to go over 85 and you can’t and it crashes your car is the one time you wish you would have gotten new tires and not the band-aid!
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 16, 2004
k – removing or disabling the extensions just makes the problem occur less often. It cannot solve the problem, because the real problem is a fault in the hardware. You will still get shutdowns from time to time.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 16, 2004
Yes, we are making significant progress working with the HP engineers.
TP
Tony_Powell
Jul 16, 2004
What a great thread. I have a Gateway M675, gig of RAM, etc., and have no problems with CS. But I’ve been reading every post in this thread like it’s a Clancey novel.

I had a similar problem, though, with Adobe LiveMotion, of all things. Random closing of the app (not system shutdown), but just as aggravating. Never figured it out.

Get this: it happened on every laptop I’ve ever owned: Toshiba, three different Gateways, and — believe it or not — my Powerbook G3. Doesn’t sound much like a hardware problem in this case, does it?

Good luck to everyone with HP.

Great thread…great thread.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 16, 2004
Tony – random closing of the app isn’t even close.

We’re talking about the whole machine shutting down or restarting.
I
ID._Awe
Jul 16, 2004
Tony: LiveMotion (the app) had more than one problem with shutting down randomly, while I liked certain aspects of the app, I gave up and went to Flash.
TS
Todd_Snapp
Jul 25, 2004
I’ve been following this thread for the past 2 months because I have been experiencing the same shutdown/reboot problem with my Pavilion ZD7000 and was hoping to see some progress on HP’s side with a resolution to the potential hardware issue that has been toted as the problem. Because I have much respect for the quality of product that Adobe produces (and tons of spite towards the runaround that HP support puts everyone through) I reluctantly followed the fix that was proposed at the following link

<http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/2256a.htm>

With regards to "Performance, however, will slow noticeably." I have to honestly say that I have actually experienced an increase in performance. I do extensive amounts of computer graphics and have used Photoshop on a regular basis for the past 7 years. With the rate and quantity of work we produce, performance and processing time is always something that I am very keen to. (I am by no means an expert in the hardware/software development side of things, but I have had many late nights of troubleshooting and "finding that not-so-obvious setting that’s the root of why you can’t get your work done", which is why I finally tried this "fix".) What I can say (At least until someone finally figures this problem out) is that I have not noticed any decrease in performance whatsoever, and as opposed to constantly crashing and losing tons of work on a regular basis, it is definitely worth it to apply the fix until the issue is resolved (or not). The Pavilion notebooks are actually very great, solid laptops (On the flipside HP’s support really sucks, but if anyone can let me know a manufacturer nowaday’s that has good support, I’d be amazed) and it has actually been a very good replacement for my desktop (Other than this constantly annoying issue with Photoshop, which is the ONLY thing that has ever made this computer crash in the past 6 months that I have owned it…) If you have to get work done, and can live with just knowing that you’re disabling a feature of the software that "supposedly" reduces performance, then do it.

I hope this just provides some insight to anyone who hates to have deadlines looming and runs into constantly annoying roadblocks that they have no control over….(Short of the effort, time, money, and frustration of returning hardware and playing the same gamble with a different piece of hardware)…
WH
Will_Heflin
Jul 25, 2004
Wow! My little post sure has turned into a wacky thread now.

My use in the crashing software has decreased over the summer, since I picked up a job not involving design, and I’ve started using another program to replace Photoshop until this fix gets worked out. I too have a full 3 year warranty so I’m not too stressed about how long this might take, though I do hope it happens sooner than later. I also just want to say that I’m sure this faulty hardware affects more than just Adobe CS software. I haven’t had anything else re occur so drastically as these now infamous photoshop crashes, but little issues pop up every now and then, and I can’t help but wonder if it isn’t tied in some way to what we are all talking about on here. Oh well.

I appreciate everyone’s input, and the work being done on both sides to try and resolve this. I never would have imagined that this would end up being as big of a thing as it is! I just hope this issue gets resolved soon and everyone can get back to doing what they want on their computers.
M
matt
Jul 26, 2004
Wow, i have finally found some people with the same laptop and same problem. I also have an HP ZD7000 (Exact Model: ZD7030EA), i own a website design company and bought my lovely looking laptop in march 2004. I have recently installed photoshop CS and found that each time i use the Free Transform tool my computer restarts or shuts down.

This is very annoying especially as adobe photoshop has no recovery feature like microsoft word etc..

Anyway i hope we find a solution for this problem, as its really annoying, i love my laptop but not this problem. I will be returning it if i cannot find a solution.

Removing the extensions from the plugins seem to stop the crashing, i have not seen any reduction in performance either. But we should be able to use this fantastic piece of software without removing plug-ins that increase performance.

If anyone finds the solution please, please inform us all and put us out the missery.

Thanks

Matt
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 27, 2004
Matt – again, read the existing replies.

HP is working on it.
J
JayR
Jul 27, 2004
I just got a call from HP Customer Services because HP Technical Support said there was no technical solution to this problem and have transferred the case. Customer Services explained to me that after talking to the engineers they had to report the problem was not hardware related but it was a failure on Adobes behalf to properly code for the new Intel chipsets and therefore it is a problem with Adobe Photoshop.

I’m quoting exactly what I have been told by HP. Yes, I am aware that they may be just feeding me an excuse, hoping I’ll go away.

I just thought you should know as of this morning HP are still telling their customers that the problem is with Adobe Software.
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 27, 2004
There is no current solution.

And I can’t believe HP is still doing that.
They know better.

Jay – did you get a case number?
J
JayR
Jul 27, 2004
Hi Chris, yes, I did. It is a UK based case number. 7202305432.

Do you think a solution will be with us soon?
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 27, 2004
Jay – I hope so. And that case number will help HP track down the bad information.
J
JayR
Jul 27, 2004
Cheers Chris. I’ll post if they contact me again.
DW
David_W_Griffiths
Jul 28, 2004
I have had exactly the same problem with an HP Pavillion ZD7050ea. HP tell me that it is due to a problem with the way the software interacts with the hardware. Intel and Adobe are bickering over who is responsible. Adobe say it is down to Intel’s chipset; Intel say that no other apps have this problem, and they won’t change anything for one piece of software. As it stands, CS is useless unless the disable extensions option stabilises it. Incidentally, I tried backtracking and installed Photoshop 7 to try to get a working system. Photoshop 7 was stable for a short while, but now is almost as unstable (though not quite) as CS.

Dave G
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 28, 2004
David – PLEASE, PLEASE read the existing responses!
IL
Ian_Lyons
Jul 28, 2004
Chris,

Is there any merit in posting something on this crashing issue to the FAQ section?

Ian
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 29, 2004
Ian – I already did post something in the FAQ entry about the computer shutting down or restarting. But nobody reads the FAQ (despite the "README FIRST" label on it).
IL
Ian_Lyons
Jul 29, 2004
Chris,

I meant something more specific – i.e. name HP and state that it’s a known issue being investigated by them). I hadn’t noticed that you had amended your previous post in the FAQ to include the HP units.
M
matt
Jul 29, 2004
I think that we should go public with this, to a magazine, that way HP might sit up and take more notice than they currently are. I know it is being worked on, but not quick enough.

I think going to a news website, or some other source and leaking this fault will bring many more people out the woodwork and help to jump start HP, Adobe and Intel if thats what it takes.
J
JayR
Jul 30, 2004
Hi Chris, I’m really sorry but you’re not going to like this one bit… This is a quote from a letter I received this morning from HP customer support.

Quote:
Whilst our Technical support staff acknowledges there is a problem, it is not a problem we have any control over, nor can we offer any resolution. This software is not designed to work with Intel chipsets. With reference the posts on the Adobe forums, HP do not accept information posted on public forums as anyone can claim credentials they are not entitled to in these anonymous environments. The fault lies with the software vendor & I feel I must respectfully point you in the direction of Adobe.

This unfortunately contradicts what you have been saying, I suspect HP are not communicating internally or maybe they really are convinced the problem is a software issue. Either way, the consumer is getting the short straw over this and as a consumer I think it is time for HP, Adobe and Intel to make an official statement on this issue before there is a riot.
TL
Terry_L_Lyons
Jul 30, 2004
I also have an HP zd7000. It is now shutting down every time I load certain files into Image Ready. I downloaded the test for the replacement memory module and it returned that my system was not a candidate for this offer.

I am so glad to see this thread. I will probably return the notebook since it is still under warrantee.
J
JayR
Jul 30, 2004
Terry – See my previous message, I’m under warrantee and they have *NO* intention of allowing me to return this notebook!
CC
Chris_Cox
Jul 31, 2004
Matthew – HP is already aware of the problem and working on it as fast as they can. There was some delay in making them aware of the issue – but now they are aware and working on it.

Jay – forward the letter with headers (and names) to I’ll send it on to the HP folks dealing with this (because HP Support should bloody well know better by now).

Chris
J
JayR
Aug 2, 2004
Hi Chris, it’s a snail mail letter linked to the same case number as before.
J
JayR
Aug 5, 2004
Chris, Is there any chance you can talk to HP about them making a statement in regards to this issue? These ZD laptops are not cheap and it’s not nice to think that we may have all bought defective hardware.

I have recently found out that the same problem has happened to someone using an Autodesk product on the ZD7000. It worries me and it must worry other people who are aware of this issue, as to what other current or future software will cause our hardware to turn itself off without warning.

I had a look on the Dell forums and I noticed that anybody complaining about this issue for the model you had previously identified the defect on was immediately advised by a Dell rep to return the system for a motherboard replacement. Do you think the reason HP are so quiet is simply because they have not got a solution in place yet or maybe they are sticking to the line they gave me, i.e. there is no hardware problem?

I’m thinking that Matts idea about informing certain news and consumer websites/organisations about this problem may be a good idea. From the consumers standpoint HP are saying there is no problem and Adobe are saying there is a hardware problem. Maybe if this issue was to become more visible by potential consumers HP would finally make a statement.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 6, 2004
Jay – I have talked to HP, and the next step is up to them. I’m waiting just as much as the rest of you.

I think HP wanted to research the problem before making an announcement, and that poor communication has led their support people to make, um, less than truthful statements.

I would advise against making a public stink about it.
HP is already moving on it.
J
JayR
Aug 9, 2004
Hi Chris, thanks for your update but can I ask if you have a number and contact name at HP I can call? I’ve been told recently by another user of the ZD7000 that he can get the ZD to turn itself off by clicking an image in Microsoft Word (I’m trying to get the offending file to test this myself). I also heard that Autodesk products can exhibit the same behaviour. With this news I really need an answer from HP.
GM
Guy_Moses
Aug 9, 2004
I have been having similar problems with my computer locking up or shutting off unexpectedly while using Photoshop CS. I have a computer from HIQ in Tinley Park, IL, part of a small chain of PC builders using standard components. This is my 3rd computer from HIQ, and I haven’t had any trouble, until I started using my new Photoshop CS. Does Adobe have any explanation or answer for this problem? Could HP be correct in their letter to JayR saying that Photoshop CS is not designed to run on Intel chipsets?
Guy Moses
J
JayR
Aug 9, 2004
I think Chris’ past success with diagnosing this fault on other machines like the Dell model is a good indication that he is also correct in this instance. What worries me is the response I received from HP and the lack of any different response from HP in light of what Chris has told us. Chris has gone out of his way to help and to keep us up to date with what is happening and I’m very glad he has but I’m not going to rest until I hear some official news that is the complete polar opposite of what I have already been told by HP! – FWIW I was speaking to the tech guys in the UK and they were probably not aware of what was happening with this issue in the states. Time will tell, just hopefully not too much time.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 9, 2004
guy, is it a desktop machine? this thread is exclusively (almost) about the hp laptop problem. please start another thread, but it sounds to me like you got some failing hardware in your latest system. see this faq:

Mathias Vejerslev "Computer locks up, shuts down, or reboots while running Photoshop" 6/5/03 4:49pm </cgi-bin/webx?13/1>

it’s very possible you got a bad mobo or ram chip or even cpu. and it doesn’t reflect on the company, it just happens… like we say in the financial svcs industry, "Past results do not indicate future performace."

what DOES reflect is how the company handles it, as we’re seeing here from HP.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 9, 2004
Jay – my contacts are not customer level contacts. No, I cannot give you the names. Yes, I am also worried about the responses from HP. Again, at least parts of HP know better – why are the tech support people still making stuff up? (actually, someone from HP UK is who first gave me a real contact and started following up on this)

Again, I hope that HP will have something to say publicly in the near future.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 9, 2004
Guy – start by reading the FAQ. You have bad hardware in your system. No, there is no problem with Photoshop CS running on Intel (or any other) chipsets.
J
JayR
Aug 9, 2004
Thanks Chris.

I would be very interested to hear if anyone else with this problem stateside has had a different response to what I had… In fact I think I’ll call US customer support from the UK and see if I get a different story.
CC
Cory_Caplan
Aug 9, 2004
Hey guys, I have an HP XW8000, and have had no problems at all until I turned hyperthreading on to speed up 3DS Max/Mental Ray. This thread really made the lightbulb turn on for me (re: hyperthreading link) Interesting that I have an HP, too, but it’s a different model. It’s a TYAN MOBO, actually, so I wonder if the fault lies with them…

Cory.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 10, 2004
Cory – not unless other users with the same motherboard have the same problem. Bad RAM is far more likely.
GM
Guy_Moses
Aug 10, 2004
Dave, I have a desktop. I’m going to talk to HIQ tomorrow about the problem. Thanks for the info. I had used Photoshop 5.0 LE with no problems for about 5 yrs. But it is not completely compatable with my new Nikon D100 images or images from other digital cameras. Guy
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 10, 2004
good luck guy. tell them that xp is process isolated, meaning an application can’t bring it down. the app may lock, but you should be able to terminate it with the task manager. if the system is locking it’s hardware (or very occasionally bios) either way they should be able to help you out, especially as they’re a local shop and you’re a repeat customer.
JA
J.A._White
Aug 11, 2004
Hi Chris,

I have been linked here from the zd7000 forums…………. Have read through this thread and it appears as though you are the guy in the know. When you say HP is on it and making progress should this give us hope? I am using 7 and my crashes as in "lights out" are increasing in frequency as is my level of anxiety. IS the fix on the way? The zd700 forum posts lead one to believe that a single memory chip rather than 2 might be working better, for what ever that’s worth………..
B
BillK999
Aug 11, 2004
I hope they do a general recall (may be hard to figure out the specific units to recall, maybe they can create a diagnostic utility that one can run on the PC to check if it suffers from this defect).

I would sell my laptop, take a loss and buy another brand. But, I can not feel right about selling what I know is a defective PC to an unsuspecting buyer. So, I feel stuck with it.

And with every day delay of a fix, my mind gets more set not to ever buy an HP PC again.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
I just spent an hour on the phone to HP customer support. The guy I spoke to was only passing on what he had been told by the technical department and tried all sorts of ways to resolve this problem for me but failed. The bottom line is not good for us ZD7000 owners.

He has said that there is a problem with Adobe Photoshop.

He insisted that Photoshop is not compatible with the Intel Chipset in the ZD7000 and so therefore it was not an issue HP could help me with.

I asked if there was a possibility that his information was incorrect, he said that the information came from the highest technical department in HP and is the bottom line.

This telephone call was a result of emailing the Exec Office at HP, so don’t think going to the CEO level will make any difference as it absolutely will not.

I think we’re screwed unless anybody else has any better ideas.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
He insisted that Photoshop is not compatible with the Intel Chipset in

what is the chipset? someone here with the same should be able to put the lie to that statement.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
The Intel Chipset ID utility says…

Detected Chipset: Intel(R) 865 chipset family
Memory Controller: 82865G/P/PE or 82848P
I/O Controller: 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R)

I already pointed this out to HP that there must be other systems that have this chipset and I don’t see anybody else complaining, to no avail.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
Here is an article that lists some other 865 chipset based mainboards…

< http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/roundupmobo/roundup-i865 -jun2k3-p1.html>
ND
Nick_Decker
Aug 11, 2004
I’m one (of hundreds? thousands?) using that Intel chipset with PS CS, quite successfully. HP is full of it.
B
BillK999
Aug 11, 2004
Strange thing is that even within the set of ZD7000 owners not everyone is having this problem as reported on the ZD7000 forum! So to me there seems to be a subset of system boards that have a manufacturing defect. It is also not a software "interaction" issue since one of my steps tp get rid of this was to reformat the HD, re-install Win XP Pro (and the HP provided drivers) and then only install PS CS (not even Norton). The problem did not go away.

I’ve seen SW problems that freeze the machine, cause windows to restart in safe mode, etc., but never this "lights out" symptom.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
The Intel Chipset ID utility says…

where’d you find that? i have a d865perl desktop board. tell me where you found the util and i’ll check my system when I get home.

I’ve seen SW problems that freeze the machine, cause windows to restart in safe mode,

not on xp or 2k you haven’t, unless you’re including drivers in the term "software". in talking about restarts and freezes it’s important to destinguish between "application" software, that only interacts with the os, and "driver" software, that may include some interaction with the actual hardware. application sw can not bring down a process isolated os like xp or 2k. driver sw may cause blue screens (or restarts, depending on you troubleshooting settings) and occasional freezes where a poorly written driver gets stuck in a loop.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
Hi Dave,

You can get the Intel Utility here…

<http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/inf/sb/CS-009266.htm>
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 11, 2004
Being an AMD guy, I’m not that familiar with Intel chipsets, but I ran across an interesting article on AnandTech.com. This link < http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=1823&amp ;p=6> takes you to the middle of a multipage article on the 865 chipset. This particular page mentions that they had trouble getting a stable system when using a particular memory module running at it’s SPD (aka "stock") memory timings. I don’t know if this is relevant, but it does seem to indicate a possible issue involving some combination of chipset, memory, and memory timings.

Someone needs to tell the HP tech support liars staff that a software app will not cause a hard crash and restart under XP. Since I installed XP almost three years ago I had two encounters with restart crashes. One was traced to a faulty memory stick and the other was a defective motherboard. After these components were replaced, everything (including PS CS) has been running like a champ.
B
BillK999
Aug 11, 2004
Interesting article.

It says " Until then, if you do purchase an 865 motherboard and are having difficulties maintaining a stable system then you’ll want to back off some of the memory timings, even if you know your memory can work fine at them." Is something an end-user can do with some utility?
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
thanks jay. i’ll check it tonight and report my specs.

Is something an end-user can do with some utility?

you can change your memory timings in the bios, but READ THE MANUAL CAREFULLY AND DON’T DO IT IF YOU’RE NOT 101% COMFORTABLE WITH IT!
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
cheap memory has been the bane of computers since systems started pushing the speed/timing envelope.
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 11, 2004
It was suprising to me that the issue was with Corsair, which is not cheap memory. It has a very good reputation with home-builders. I’m running two sticks of 512 Mb Corsair PC2700 memory that I’ve overclocked to PC3200 speeds, with no problems whatsoever. Didn’t even have to change the timings. It just seems like some combinations of motherboard/chipset/memory brands hit the sweet spot, while other combinations tend to puke.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
It was suprising to me that the issue was with Corsair, which is not cheap memory.

agreed. but then, no hardware is 100% perfect. The diff is often how a company deals with problems.

It just seems like some combinations of motherboard/chipset/memory brands hit the sweet spot, while other combinations tend to puke.

which is why I went with an intel board this time. I figured, they wrote the spec, they should know how to impliment it. And so far (knock on wood) I’ve been right. This is the most stable system I’ve had since I used DOS 3.11! (3.0 and 3.1 were bug ridden dogs!<g>)
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
Dave, you can’t tweak the bios settings on the ZD7000, the bios has been ‘crippled’ by HP – who knows what they have set in there. And besides, I’m really not comfortable doing that even if I could as I would not know what to change the settings to. I may end up causing more problems or just crippling the speed of the system to fix a different problem, which would be no better than the ‘remove plugins band-aid’
L
LenHewitt
Aug 11, 2004
DS,

I think you are being somewhat harsh with your language in criticism of HP Tech support staff.

I’m sure that the average help-desk technician won’t have the faintest clue as to the cause of the problem, knowing only what he/she has been told (probably in writing) is the ‘correct response’ to customer queries on this matter.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
you can’t tweak the bios settings on the ZD7000, the bios has been ‘crippled’ by HP – who knows what they have set in there

<seagull from finding nemo>Nice.</seagull>

and by that I mean, "that bites."

which would be no better than the ‘remove plugins band-aid’

qualified agreement there. it MIGHT be possible that the defaults set in the bios were wrong from the manufacturer. but if correct, i agree that slowing them down would be worse than the disable plugins band aid, as it would affect the whole system, not just photoshop.
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 11, 2004
Len,

Well, maybe so. I should’ve clarified that I wasn’t referring to the poor schmucks that answer the phone, but the higher-ups that write the support scripts. Specifically, Jay’s comment that the information came from the highest technical department in HP and is the bottom line. Surely the higher-level support managers know that software can’t trigger this behavior. If they don’t, they’re in the wrong job.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
Dave, my thoughts exactly.

Len, the HP customer support guy I spoke to was trying his best to help but I agree he is only telling me what his technical team advised him. I did repeatedly ask him if they could be incorrect but he insisted that they knew of the problem and their final word on this issue is the problem is with Adobe Photoshop. They are either not aware of any possible work being done or there is no work being done on this issue, I don’t know what to think any more πŸ™
JA
J.A._White
Aug 11, 2004
Hey Jay R

I know just enough about hardware to be dangerous, to myself! So I am very hesitant to start messing with the OS.

The intel utility, as I understand these posts, detects your chipset, and directs you to an update for the "driver" if appropriate. Is that correct? And if so this retimes the use of or corellation of RAM speed with the hyper threading to a "working" mode as opposed to the lights out crashing?

I have combed the posts on the ZD7000 forum and I am getting the impression that there are people using single sticks of RAM with success, a few anyway.

quote "We purchased the ZD7000 (CTO) last October. We tried replacing the memory (2, 512MB sticks and stiching their positions), re-flashing bios, renaming fastcore and MMX files, etc. Finally, we contacted HP and they said they have a fix (released by Adobe for users of Photoshop 6.0-CS). Drag your extensions folder outside of the Adobe folder however, Photoshop will run much slower.

We have not tested this option yet because it never shut off with (1) 512MB stick in it, it just locked up with large files. So, we contacted Kevin at HP technical support and asked if we could exchange the (2) 512MB sticks for 1 (GB) stick. They agreed. After one day of testing, we cannot make it shut off while in Photoshop. Before this, it would crash within 20 minutes with (2) 512MB sticks installed." end quote

This fellow has yet to post an update but waiting with fingers crossed.

My interpretation is that the hyper threading and the implementation the ZD7000s use are taxed and or overamped by photoshop, causing the computer just say I quit. Any hardware guys with input about this?

What I am looking for hear is consistent behavior that the rigs crash and or operate on. This will be all that we need to make our case to HP and get the damn things working as advertised! Outside of Photoshop this has been a great rig for me……..
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
HP and they said they have a fix (released by Adobe for users of Photoshop
6.0-CS). Drag your extensions folder outside of the Adobe folder however,
Photoshop will run much slower. We have not tested this option yet

I know that this is a long thread, but that’s been discussed here before. It’s a "band aid solution" to a hardware problem. It instructs PS not to use advanced features of the hardware. (Actually it tells PS that the advanced features don’t exist on your system. Do things the older, slower way.) If I were Adobe, I’d be all over the shmucks at HP for giving out false information like this, over and over!

After one day of testing, we cannot make it shut off while in Photoshop. Before this, it would crash within 20 minutes with (2) 512MB sticks installed." end quote

My interpretation is that the hyper threading and the implementation the ZD7000s use are taxed and or overamped by photoshop, causing the computer just say I quit. Any hardware guys with input about this?

The problem there seemed to be either with bad ram or a possible timing problem on the ram bus between multiple sticks. Either way it’s theirs (HP’s) to fix. Photoshop isn’t (can’t by definition as an XP certified application) doing anything wrong/illegal/fishy. It’s simply taking full advantage of what’s SUPPOSED to work. The fact that it IS working on 99% (or greater) of other systems is anecdotal evidence that it’s an HP problem. If it was Photoshop, Adobe would be scrambling because it’s users (including me) would be screaming.

I know Chris said that alerting the tech media may not be wise right now, but it’s looking more and more like someone should be notified. HP is really giving you guys a good screwing. Ed Foster anyone?
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
Who is Ed Foster? πŸ™‚

There are loads of sites that could be interested, The Register, The Inquirer, Toms Hardware, CNet, Anandtech and the BBC just to name a few off the top of my head.
U
UncleCranky
Aug 11, 2004
I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring as well.

I have a ZD7160 with XP and Photoshop CS. I have 2 x512mb memory.

I am experiencing the shutoff as well.

I have been following the thread for awhile now and was wondering when someone might escalate this to Slashdot?

-UC
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
Who is Ed Foster?

Ed is the writer of the infoworld column "GripeLine". Here’s his latest:

<http://weblog.infoworld.com/foster/2004/08/10.html#a139>
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
I wonder if some brave (and hardware savvy) soul might see if removing a stick from the systems with 2 ram sticks might solve the problem and point to a timing issue when multiple sticks are used.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
Dave, the problem is with the intermittent nature of the failure, how long would someone have to run on half their ram before it’s considered a valid test?

Ed Foster and SlashDot are both very valid sites for this information and I do think every owner of a ZD7000 who is suffering from this problem should submit this story to them, power in numbers has to be better than a lone voice.
U
UncleCranky
Aug 11, 2004
I will try the 1 stick of memory theory tonight and report back.

The failure is easy to reproduce so it shouldn’t be a big deal to see what the outcome is.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
how long would someone have to run on half their ram before it’s considered a valid test?

isn’t everyone saying this is almost immediate? how about a day?

I do think every owner of a ZD7000 who is suffering from this problem should submit this story to them,

I think everyone should hold off and see what Chris thinks… he says he’s got a contact over there. Maybe he should mention the idea that users are getting fed up and are ready to go to the media to the HP contact.
U
UncleCranky
Aug 11, 2004
I just posted a warning not to buy a HP ZD7000 if you plan on using Photoshop on the popular Fredmiranda.com Photography site:
<http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/120099>

-UC
JA
J.A._White
Aug 11, 2004
I just spent over 160+minutes on the phone with HP tech, explaining my theory, [single stick RAM seems to quell the crash]and presenting the cases of those who are succeeding with the single stick configuration. Then the Microsoft memory diagnostic test, @ 30+minutes, one failure and still running, they agreed to send out 2 replacement sticks of RAM [512] as opposed to the single Gig I was pleading for.

In the end I spoke with Sandra Taylor, 1-800474-6836, who was trying to convince me that I should try the single test on the phone right now. I said I would try it when the new RAM came. Also she indicated the hyper threading was raising hell with Photoshop for everyone [?, anyone know about that?].

As well that as soon as someone came forward with a test case indicating that a single stick alleviated the crashes, she would submit that info to R+D and they could move on it.

So if someone wants to go first have at it and please report back.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
I think everyone should hold off and see what Chris thinks… he says he’s got a contact over there. Maybe he should mention the idea that users are getting fed up and are ready to go to the media to the HP contact.

I’m not sure if that will help, after talking to HP they are well aware of the problem. It’s not like they don’t know anything about it and they get a call from a customer who says "Photoshop does not work" and they say "Does everything else work?" and the customer says "Yes", to which HP would knee jerk reply "Well it must be Photoshop then". It is not like that, they know exactly what the problem is and they are adamant that it is Adobes problem. I honestly don’t think this is a communications breakdown any more I think they either truly believe that it is Adobes problem or they are covering up a manufacturing default by blaming Adobe.

My contact at HP said, and this is important and I’m sorry I forgot to mention it earlier, that they will not take any more action unless we can prove that other applications cause the same fault. If that isn’t proof that they are simply taking the easy argument of "If nothing else causes the same effect then it must be Photoshop" then what is? And do you know what? Now that I have typed that I can remember my contact saying that in his opening of the conversation.
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 11, 2004
Also she indicated the hyper threading was raising hell with Photoshop for everyone

Yet more B.S. that can easily be disproven.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 11, 2004
Folks: it is a hardware defect. HP knows about it, but somehow they haven’t communicated this to their technical support staff.

I have just sent email to HP informing them that their support staff is givng customer incorrect information and asking them to look at this forum thread.

No, I don’t know why HP has not made an announcement about this.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
There you go, J.A.White spends 160 mins on the phone on one side of the Atlantic and I spend over an hour on the phone on the other side of the Atlantic. I can’t see how any body could seriously believe that HP are really working on resolving this issue. It would appear that they absolutely believe there is no issue for them to resolve.
RM
Rick Moore
Aug 11, 2004
JayR – you’ve mentioned something about Autodesk programs having problems with this machine. Do you know which programs?



Rick Moore
Barnes Gromatzky Kosarek Architects
www.bgkarchitects.com
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
Chris, I hear what you are saying but I just don’t believe that HP are going to do anything about it. After speaking to them today I believe that they are very aware of the problem it’s just they have a very different opinion of what is causing it.

Rick, I’ll try and find the post where I read that for you, but off the top of my head I think it was AutoCAD.
RM
Rick Moore
Aug 11, 2004
This is interesting, same thing happened to someone running Flight Sim:

http://tinyurl.com/3vc6k



Rick Moore
Barnes Gromatzky Kosarek Architects
www.bgkarchitects.com
Aug 11, 2004
Yep, I’m a Maccer.

And for awhile, I was following this thread with no small amount of a smug gloating painted across my face.

But, my face and gut-reactions relaxed (or my muscles just got tired πŸ˜‰ ) and I continued reading.

I think, that when all of this is resolved or brought to some unanimous conclusion between HP and Adobe, that Chris will deserve a case of fine wine (or something) for his attention to the matter and for his outstanding patience and diligence in responding to this thread.

I feel genuine empathy and a good measure of sadness for everyone who has to fight this sort of problem. When something doesn’t work the way it should, and the fix is entirely out of one’s control…well, I can’t think of many things more frustrating than that.

Cheers, Chris, for all of your work.

And cheers to everyone else here who has taken the time to test and document and make phones calls and wait on hold and write out well-constructed posts and emails.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
Rick, that can’t be a coincidence. Thats a really good find!

Chris, can you at least let us know the name of the department handling this issue so I can get my contact to call that department and get the facts?
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 11, 2004
Jay – it would not be appropriate to give that information out.
J
JayR
Aug 11, 2004
Chris, I do appreciate that you are in a sticky situation. If they are not releasing this information to their customer facing teams then they must be doing it for a reason, insidious or not, they must have made the decision to keep it in their department. The very fact that we know HP are working on the problem because you have told us means that they must be hiding this information on purpose and so you telling us who they are will undoubtedly mean they will have to ‘come clean’ – It’s hard to write this without sounding like a conspiracy nut.

As customers of HP I think we have pretty much gone as far as we can go with this without seeking outside assistance.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
Also she indicated the hyper threading was raising hell with Photoshop for everyone [?, anyone know about that?].

that’s bull —— (you know). i’m using hyperthreading.

fine winw (or something)

(tequilla)

looking for the link that displays the intel chipset now…

be right back w/the info
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 11, 2004
from #181 (jayr)

He (hp tech) insisted that Photoshop is not compatible with the Intel Chipset in the ZD7000 and so therefore it was not an issue HP could help me with.

Jay posted:

JayR – 07:52am Aug 11, 2004 PDT (#183 of 222)

The Intel Chipset ID utility says…

Detected Chipset: Intel(R) 865 chipset family

Memory Controller: 82865G/P/PE or 82848P

I/O Controller: 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R)

I downloaded and ran the intel chipset id util on my desktop machine and got:

Detected Chipset: Intel(R) 865 chipset family
Memory Controller: 82865G/P/PE or 82848P
I/O Controller: 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R), SATA and PATA enabled

So there goes that lie from HP.

Buncha wankers!

Nice find there Jay.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 11, 2004
Jay – wait a little longer. We’re working on it.

And I doubt the tech support situation is intentional. More likely it’s just a lack of communicaton.
B
BillK999
Aug 11, 2004
Chris

From your discussions with HP can you tell us if the problem is with the ZD7000 design in general, i.e., all units suffer from this (just some users have not encountered the problem yet) or is it just a quality control so only some systems are defective?
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 11, 2004
Bill – that I can’t tell you.
J
JayR
Aug 12, 2004
Dave, thanks πŸ™‚

Chris, I’ve got a special kind of communication for them and there sure as hell won’t be any room for confusion *rubs fist* πŸ˜€

Dave, I just saw the screenshot, nice! In your face HP!
JA
J.A._White
Aug 12, 2004
G’Day

I have just returned home and got word from the folks I quoted in in earlier post that their single stick of 1 Gig is functioning perfectly well with the same files that crashed the computer within minutes, and froze up their desktop. That is sounding more and more like a probable fix to me…..

I am also glad to hear that the the hyper threading is total garbage, which I suspected. I am going to contact them during daylight tomorrow and ask for the HP case # to pass on to Ms. Taylor so that the tech people, with or without the assistance of the higher ups can go to work on this. Since my RAM tested defective I wanted to wait and at a minimum get that replaced before offering myself and my machine up for testing. Which by the way HP should be undertaking with their own damn machines. These violent crashes cannot be good for this thing!

Chris can you pass this information on as well please. Perhaps your contacts can act with greater authority and circumvent some sort of retaliation from this growing group of, how shall I say this, irritated, consumers.

All I really want is a working machine, and to get back to making money!
J
JayR
Aug 12, 2004
All I really want is a working machine, and to get back to making money!

I hear that!

Let’s see if today brings any news. I’m completely fed up waiting, if I don’t get a straight answer today then the gloves are coming off.
J
JayR
Aug 12, 2004
Chris, I found out that the department the Customer Care and Tech support guys use to get technical advice is called DTech. Customer Care told me that DTechs word is absolutely final and they are *the* top level resource for technical answers. If the department you are working with is DTech then we’re all screwed as they are sticking steadfast to their "the fault lies with Adobe" line. I hope you can at least tell us it isn’t DTech… please tell us it’s not DTech.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 12, 2004

J.A. – the HP folks have read the recent posts, and are working on it.

That’s all I can say now.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 12, 2004
JayR – give them a few days. Large companies have intertia…
J
JayR
Aug 12, 2004
Chris, Inertia or not, when the department I was speaking to can’t even ask other departments in their own company because of protocols then that really is unacceptable as they have no intention to help us. This is not a dig at the Customer Care guy I was speaking to as I genuinely believe that his hands were tied by bureaucratic tape but it *is* a dig at what they laughingly refer to as ‘care’.

Sorry I’m done waiting.
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 12, 2004
I know that this article <http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,116773,00.asp> is old news, and was discussed in this thread a while back. But in going back and re-reading it, I was struck by the fact that HP claims that this earlier memory problem was an "industry-wide problem", and specifically mentioned Intel chipsets. Sound familiar? Also very interesting that IBM and Gateway were competent enough to smoke these bad memory chips out during testing and never let them enter the production pipeline.
J
JayR
Aug 12, 2004
Yes, I remember this, the memory modules I have are 256MB infinion modules as stated in the article but the chipset they state is not the same. I ran the utility and it said my system was not one of the targeted systems, so therefore no replacement. I think this is a completely different issue although I really wish it wasn’t.
JA
J.A._White
Aug 12, 2004
Chris –

Thanks for bringing this to the "HP that be" attention. It seems the best we can do fro now is feed them all the information we can and then ride them. I appreciate your efforts and keeping us posted.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 12, 2004
It seems the best we can do fro now is feed them all the information we can and then ride them.

and if that doesn’t work, /. them!
J
JayR
Aug 12, 2004

J.A. White: – it seems the best we can do fro now is feed them all the
information we can and then ride them.

Dave – and if that doesn’t work, /. them!

It won’t work, they said they do not take any information found on forums into account. They also said that HPs bottom line is it is Adobes fault. And finally, they said that there was nothing else they can do, the case is effectively closed. ‘riding them’ any more is utterly pointless.

Sorry if that sounds pessimistic but I am only passing on exactly what I have been told. I asked if there was a complaints procedure, his advice was (roughly quoted) "it would not matter if you complained as the complaint would come through to me and I would only end up giving you the exact same answer." So I emailed the exec office and guess who called me back, the same guy! Seriously, there is no way forward with HP.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 12, 2004
Jay – I would _love_ to get the name and number of the person who told you that…
JA
J.A._White
Aug 12, 2004
Jay, damn, that is pretty bleak sounding. Big company, Big communication gaps, I hope.

I spent 40 minutes or so on the phone with the fellow I quoted about the single stick of 1 Gig. He is working on huge files, 2-almost 400 MB, with no problems. He was more than cooperative, provided his case numbers and had copious notes. Wants to help.

Originally HP had him do the same thing I am in the middle of right now, the memory swap out. Then flipping the sticks from one slot to another and finally the only thing that worked, you guessed it the single stick. No matter the size!

I have provided the case numbers to HP customer service in my local, where ever that is in their world, my case I think it’s B.C. Canada.
[where are you geographically Jay?, I am in the Pacific NW.] Anyway I am supposed to be getting a return call once they look into it and, the gal seemed enthusiastic!?! She claimed they were in the middle of setting up a ZD7000 to do their own testing on as we spoke, if that was truthful, at least they are physically working on it! [As well she said they are aware of the photoshop problem] and had been waiting to hear from me?, and working on it. Apparently I got somebodies attention yesterday, or they are blowing more smoke up my @$$ than even I would be inclined imagine.

I will report whatever I find out and I am not letting go this yet, not when I have gotten this far.

Chris, does any of this coincide with your intelligence? [what other word is there for it?]
J
JayR
Aug 12, 2004
That’s rich, you won’t even tell me who you are working with! πŸ˜€

Seriously though, you have the case number and you can get the telephone number for UK Customer Care from the HP website. It would be unfair for you to have a go at the guy I spoke to, it’s his manager that needs to be told whats what.

I will be most impressed if I get a call from them tomorrow, but to be honest they will almost certainly tell you exactly the same thing, which would be funny and depressing all at the same time. Or they simply will not believe who you are as they already told me "due to the nature of anonymous posts on forums you could be speaking to anybody!" So are you really Chris Cox!? Prove it!! πŸ˜€

Is it right to cry so hard when you’re laughing!? *slump*
JA
J.A._White
Aug 12, 2004
This was just culled off the ZD7000 forum…………….

"Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:53 pm Post subject:

———————————————————— ——————–

Class Action is not a joke. For the first almost full year of sales, the 7000 has been sold with a faulty designed AC adapter socket on the motherboard which renders the PC completely dead. The only proper repair is the complete replacement of the motherboard with another that has the same design fault. Every day I read on this site and others of more and more people having this same issue and most of them have the issue multiple times. This is not a touch pad or a driver issue, this renders the PC no better than a rock in your front yard and soon many of the warrenties are going to expire making this a multiple hundred dollar fix for an issue that will return. To all of you that send this PC in to get it repaired only to get the same motherboard with a bad design…. you’ll see it my way when the next time costs you hundreds. HP should recall all 7000’s will the design flaw (rumor has it recent motherboards are OK in new machines…but do you get a new model or an exact replacement when sending in an old model? As more an more people aquire $1300-2200.00 paper weights…. I’ll sit back and laugh (while I have a 3k) at those who think this shouldn’t be corrected the most responsible way by HP….total recall….even if it take a class action to get them to do it. "

Recall was the word most frequently used by the fellow I have been refering to who has his machine up and running, [and he is a happy camper] single stick. I am not advocating anything, this is just interesting.
J
JayR
Aug 12, 2004
He’s an angry man, and quite rightly so… The problem he is referring to is the pin in the power socket, if you push the powerlead connector in at an angle it is apparently easy to push the pin out of the back of the component. There are quite a few people who have this problem and I live in fear that it will happen to me. He’s right, owners of the ZD have no clue if they have a new model with a fixed power connector or not, so we live in fear that we will be next.
J
JayR
Aug 13, 2004
You are about to read what I received this morning from HP. I guess they had to hammer their point home. I don’t care if I was right to copy it here or not, I’m that angry about this situation.

If you own a ZD7000 and you are suffering from shutdown issues then you have ***NO CHANCE*** of getting it repaired, replaced or refunded. I cannot stress this enough, you are out of luck.

Anyway, here goes…

Quote:
I fully understand your frustration in this matter, however, our Technical dept do know about this issue but its not a fault with your notebook. Please consider the following facts.

There is a problem with the photoshop software running on this specific intel chipset but it doesnt just affect HP laptop/pc’s, the problems have also been reported with other manufacturers.

There is no technical solution for this problem as this has been stated by our technical dept, adobe have issues with Intels hardware, Intel are not going to change the hardware for Adobe software and Adobe dont want to update the software to work with Intels hardware. It is really Adobe’s problem as they should write the software to be compatible with the hardware provided and they probably will in the next release of photoshop.

What this all boils down to is the fact that software manufacturers are able to write software around the hardware at hand, hardware manufacturers are not able to design it’s hardware around software.

Adobe dont want to update the software to work with Intels hardware.

Chris, what do you say to that comment? They sound as though they are speaking from experience?
B
BillK999
Aug 13, 2004
I guess it is really time to post to as many forums or outlets as possible letting users of PS know they should not buy the ZD7000. It does not matter who is at fault (Adob or HP), if you use PS you should not buy ZD7000.

I used to be a Dell customer until I decided I liked the ZD7000 and bought it instead of upgrading my old Dell to a newer Dell. This is my first and last HP PC.
J
JayR
Aug 13, 2004
Agreed on both points and this is my 4th and very last HP.
B
BillK999
Aug 13, 2004
This is getting me really angry so this is my second post in 10 minutes πŸ™‚

I am thinking maybe we should ALL start calling the sales department showing interest in buying the ZD7000 but ask about concerns with PS and what we have heard from current users (us :)). Then after a few minutes decline to buy because of these "rumors."

I think HP will pay more attention to lost sales than they will do to tickets from people who have already given them their money.
Aug 13, 2004
Wanna try this?

Compose your thoughts well, proofread for clarity, spelling, grammar and factuality, then head over to:

<http://www.petitiononline.com/>

Now, put together a boilerplate forum message about the petition that you can post into relevant forums and newsgroups, directing people with the same problem to the URL to your petition.
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 13, 2004
PC World magazine has a monthly column called "On Your Side" where they go to bat for the small guy that’s been scr#wed by the big company. I suspect they’d love to hear about this. Here’s a link <http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,116448,00.asp> to the latest column and an archive of previous articles. There’s also an email address in there to contact them.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 13, 2004
and don’t forget about ed foster and the infoworld gripeline and don’t underestimate the power of slashdot.
J
JayR
Aug 13, 2004
Bill, your idea about lost sales is interesting. Do you think they record those kinds of details?

All of the ideas so far are excellent, make sure if you suffer with the problem that you make your own complaints, power in numbers and all that.

Dave, how does slashdot work, do you give a ‘scoop’ or do you physically write the article that will appear?
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 13, 2004
honestly, not sure jay. i know you have to register (free) but phosphor’s actually submitted there. i’ll let him fill you in.

phos?
Aug 13, 2004
Yup…Gotta sign up for free. Slashdot <http://slashdot.org> is a trustworthy site, so no worries about your sign-up info being nicked or intentionally redistributed by the site’s administrators.

To submit an article or issue for consideration, then, you write it up clearly and thoughfully. Provide good documentation and corroborating links. In your own words sum up the issue, from your perspective, in a short sentence or two. Brevity is the soul of most submissions there, so compose your submission carefully. After you submit your article, it will be checked and possibly edited (not for content, so much as for clarity and brevity). It then may or may not make it onto the list, depending on the how meritorious the editor decides the issue is. It’s up to the person submitting the article to present a convincing case.

I suggest reading over there for awhile so you get a feel for how things are done, though. The reward for frivolous, crappy posts are a swift and thorough rending of your brand new a*****e.

The downside to having the issue published there, and linking to this thread, is that there will be an ENORMOUS strain on the AdobeForum’s servers as slashdotter’s visit the link, and the likely influx of people here who may or may not post helpful, insightful or relevant replies. Either way, the increase in traffic here (and to any other links you may provide) will be significant.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 13, 2004
is that there will be an ENORMOUS strain on the AdobeForum’s servers

use caution when posting links there. as phos said, the generated traffic can be huge (which is why hp would notice if you linked to info at HP). try to find relevant info on hp’s site moreso than linking here.
J
JayR
Aug 13, 2004
Yes, this < http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-03-19&re s=l> worries me too. We would almost certainly get people saying "you should have bought an iMac" πŸ™‚ But we need to do what we need to do because currently (like they guy on the ZD7000Forums said) we own very expensive paperweights.
JA
J.A._White
Aug 13, 2004
OK, shouldn’t we wait until Chris Cox has one more response here? He hasn’t officially said "have at ’em, they’re not going to do anything" , YET! His last post was give them a couple of days, and that HP is aware of this forum.

It seems as though he’s got a higher connection that any of the rest of us are ever going to get near.

Don’t get me wrong, I think this is COMPLETELY legitimate tack once Chris has ONE more shot with HP, and or reports back here one more time. I say give him another 24 hours………..

In my view, for what that’s worth, the FASTEST cure will be a direct response from HP, not a protracted and messy "he said she said" [between HP and Adobe probably] with the "media" calling the shots and more interested in the mag sales/web hits the story ultimately generates than resolving our issue.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 13, 2004
OK, shouldn’t we wait until Chris Cox has one more response here?

I think so.
J
JayR
Aug 13, 2004

J.A. We’ve had a direct response from HP, I posted it already.

Let me quote…

Adobe dont want to update the software to work with Intels hardware. It is really Adobe’s problem as they should write the software to be compatible with the hardware provided and they probably will in the next release of photoshop.

You can’t get much more direct than that!

I do understand your point, but Chris has been telling HP for (looking above) about 3 weeks that people are getting irate about the line Customer Care and Technical Support are giving out. How hard can it be for HP to email or send a memo to all of the customer facing departments and tell them the score? Something seriously isn’t right with this picture.

I can’t see what else we can seriously expect him to do for us.

We can’t take into account that HP may be working on a fix when HP themselves say they are NOT working on a fix. I don’t see any other way of looking at it.

Now this is the biggest issue I have…

This issue was reported to HP way back in early March it’s now mid August, that’s around 6 months! Most laptops will have a 12 month warrantee, so best case scenario is if you were *one of the first people* complaining back then, you have 6 months left. I bet there are a few nervous people reading this right now and I’m one of them.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 13, 2004
that’s around 6 months! Most laptops will have a 12 month warrantee,

as i mentioned way earlier in this thread.
J
JayR
Aug 13, 2004
Exactly… tick tock tick tock πŸ™
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 13, 2004
the response i seemed to get (iirc) at the time was "la de da. we don’t care. 3 years. blah. blah. blah." so i dropped it. πŸ™
J
JayR
Aug 13, 2004
Yeah, you posted around #130 I think, I saw the response you got, they can’t say you didn’t try and help πŸ™
H
Ho
Aug 13, 2004
This issue was raised in this thread on March 17, almost exactly 5 months ago. If you folks who are affected (afflicted) want to wait a few more hours for Chris to give you a status report, it can’t hurt. But if and when the time comes to go after HP in the public arena, I would encourage the use of every available avenue; print media, broadcast media, web media, the BBB, consumer protection agencies, your attorney general… speak to any ear that will listen. Be advised that anyone who even casually investigates this issue will contact HP and be given the party line, "This is Adobe’s problem to fix." All the more damning to HP if handled correctly.

I would encourage all of you to copy this entire thread, or at least the key posts; things have vanished from these forums in the past when legal issues were involved.

Hammer the bastards into submission.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 13, 2004
a’yup:

dave milbut 7/14/04 3:03pm </cgi-bin/webx?14/130>
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 13, 2004
Jay – you know they’re handing you BS. And they should know that it is BS. HP is (right now) trying to update all their call centers with correct information.

But I cannot believe the level of crap that they’re giving you.

If this was a software issue, we would fix it.
HP has determined the cause of the problem in the hardware, and is working to resolve it.

I think I need to talk to this support person and his manager. I believe there are several legal and logical concepts that they have failed to grasp.
J
JayR
Aug 13, 2004
UK Customer Care and Technical Support use a department called DTech or DTek or whatever but they stressed to me it was DTech that were calling the shots. If you re-educate DTech then you instantly cure the CS and TS problem with HP UK. But as I stated before they don’t even believe that you are the real Chris Cox! So good luck, you’ll need it!

Jay – you know they’re handing you BS. And they should know that it is BS. HP is (right now) trying to update all their call centers with correct information.

I want to see something mentioned on HP.COM, I don’t want to call them again tomorrow or Monday if they are not open on a Saturday, only to be told the same thing! Even if it’s just a small mention on the ZD7000 troubleshooting section, just some acknowledgment. I would rather not call their 8pence/16cents a minute TS line every bloody day to be handed the same BS.

BTW, Thanks for the update Chris.
JA
J.A._White
Aug 13, 2004
Good to hear back from you Chris……….bad news is the call centers are FAR from updated. I was supposed to hear back from them in regard to the information I provided to a supervisor yesterday, whos supposedly forwarded that to tech, blah, blah, blah…..didn’t so I called them. [My new RAM, 2 sticks of 512, still crash.]

So James starts in on the uninstall/install routine, after an explanation of the circumstances he checks in to the matter with tech who tells him that this is not a known problem, HONEST.

Personally I have the extended warranty, and a desktop that handles photoshop work, so the sense of urgency is not quite as pressing for me. But if I didn’t I’d be egging Jay on!

It’s good to know that whom ever you are talking to acknowledges there is a hardware problem, but if they don’t own up to this SOON, as far as owner/drivers of these machines, I bet this makes it a news level very quickly. It seems it might be wise for you to document your correspondence to prove that HP has admitted this is a hardware issue, lest they suggest otherwise.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 13, 2004
Darn – the people I need to talk to are out of town until next week.
J
JayR
Aug 13, 2004
Tell the secretary to check the washrooms, they’re hiding πŸ˜€
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 13, 2004
Well I can’t believe I just read through all of this but it was quite interesting. Couple of comments.

First, all users should be aware that Customer Service turnover in hardware manufacturers is HUGE, especially the big guys. We know that Dell and others often outsource or have outsourced customer support.

That makes for a communication nightmare in these organizations.

The issue at hand is a problem that would almost certainly never have been found, or at least replicated, were it not for the nature of photoshop – as was said many posts ago, there is NO other commercially available software that will tax a system like Photoshop.

So on the one hand, you see how this had to be driven to the point of an "engineer to engineer" discussion. It’s obscure and thanks to photoshop it was found. It’s hard to have too much animosity for HP. Anyone who has worked for IBM, Dell, or Hewlett ComPackard would be able to appreciate that the process of verifying, and then dissminating the correct information is a nightmare.

On the other hand, it goes to my long time belief that "Any idiot can, and usually does, pick up a telephone."

The issue isn’t so much solving the technical problem – two more manufacturing turns and this can be solved. The issue is whether HP will act responsibly to their customers.

Keep the faith folks.

Peace,
Tony
J
JayR
Aug 16, 2004
It’s Monday! Let the fight continue!
J
JayR
Aug 16, 2004
Darn – the people I need to talk to are out of town until next week.

Chris, are they back today?
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 16, 2004
They are back, and actively working on it.
G
Gener
Aug 16, 2004
This has been a real eye opener… I just purchased a Toshiba A75-S2762 laptop (P4-3.2GHz/1GB ram/80GB HD) No probs with PS-CS as of yet.
JA
J.A._White
Aug 17, 2004
Hey Chris

OK they’re working on it. That’s good to hear. Given your experience with this type of thing, is it your opinion/experience that HP will step and "do right" by those of us afflicted?

What can you you tell us, excerpts from your conversations perhaps?
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
Yes, should I be calling HP again tomorrow to see if they got through to the customer facing departments or not?
KH
Kirsten_Harris
Aug 17, 2004
Chris Cox posted an update to the FAQ section:
NOTICE to HP ZD7000 series notebook owners

HP has discovered that running some highly graphic and memory intensive utilities on a ZD7000 series notebook, certain systems may inadvertently power down. The cause of the problem has been discovered and corrections have been made to all units now shipping.

Any customers encountering inadvertent power shut down problems are requested to send their unit into an HP authorized repair center to have their unit repaired under warranty.

<http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?3@@.ef47fb1/2>
FN
Fred_Nirque
Aug 17, 2004
Yay Chris!

<golf clap>
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 17, 2004
Chris is the f$%@king man! HOO HOO HOO! You da man Chris!

here’s a link to that faq topic that works:

Chris Cox "Computer locks up, shuts down, or reboots while running Photoshop" 8/16/04 3:45pm </cgi-bin/webx?14/2>

πŸ™‚
B
BillK999
Aug 17, 2004
This sounds great but we need HP to post this on their support site. Whoever calls HP support first thing tomorrow let us know what they say now.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 17, 2004
One of the things I like about Chris is that if he gets engaged in a discussion with an engineer, they’re going to know pretty quickly that he knows what he’s talking about. Instant crediblity.

<golf clap>

Bravo Chris.
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 17, 2004
In yo’ face, HP support!

I wonder if some of those HP support cretins now have longer noses.
ND
Nick_Decker
Aug 17, 2004
I wonder if some of those HP support cretins now have longer noses.

What Len said, earlier. Those "HP support cretins" are just repeating what they’ve been told to repeat. It’ll be interesting to see what HP’s official stance will become.

Nick (who doesn’t have a dog in this fight, but salutes Chris for gettin’ gnarly with ’em)
JA
J.A._White
Aug 17, 2004
Chris DUDE!!!!!

Thank you SO MUCH for hanging in there with HP AND us! Karma is on your side and you were on ours! Patience was rewarded in the end.

I’m on the phone 1st thing tomorrow morning………..
FN
Fred_Nirque
Aug 17, 2004
Chris Cox "Computer locks up, shuts down, or reboots while running Photoshop" 8/16/04 3:45pm </cgi-bin/webx?14/2>

Oh, NICE! I can see the <VBG> as Chris posted that response.

HP "discovered" it, did they? How proficient of them.
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
^_^ !YES! ^_^

It’s gotta give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside knowing that Photoshop exposes the faults in a machine where no other application can!

I’ll call HP today, I bloody hope they don’t spin me the same line!

Will report back later!
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
Sorry Guys, one *very* long conversation with HP UK later and I’m no closer to getting this resolved. They still refuse point blank to admit that there is anything wrong with the ZD7000.

Chris even put a notice on the FAQ and *still* they refuse to take that into consideration. I’m no legal expert but the implications of stating a fact like that if it were untrue would not be pleasant I’m sure, which I pointed out to HP as further evidence.

If the customer facing departments finally get the correct information there will be a lot of people at HP with egg on their faces and a lot of unhappy HP customers to suck up to.
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
If any of you get a positive response from HP on this matter, could you please post it here, as that would really help us in the UK. It would be pretty damning if I could persuade my Customer Care rep to call the US TS/CC line and hear the exact opposite story from his American counterpart.
U
UncleCranky
Aug 17, 2004
Has anyone called HP to try and get the problem fixed now that Chris has had them acknowledge the problem?

If so, do the support people know of the issue or do you need to move if the channel to get them to start the repair process?

-UC
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
Umm, yeah… read the two posts above yours πŸ™‚ not the best result I’m afraid πŸ™
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 17, 2004
Those "HP support cretins" are just repeating what they’ve been told to repeat.

Yeah, I know. Like I said earlier, the people writing the support scripts are the ones I’m referring to. Somebody is telling the phone answerers what to say, and that somebody, whether they’re in-house or contracted, has not done HP’s reputation any good.

I strongly suspect that if this hardware flaw had been exposed by a lesser-known software title, without a Chris Cox to go to bat for their customers, HP could have easily won this battle and scr##ed thousands of customers. From JayR’s most recent posts, it sounds like some factions of HP are still trying to do just that.
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
DS,

it sounds like some factions of HP are still trying to do just that.

Which is why it is very important to hear from anybody who has had success dealing with their local HP office. If any faction of HP says NO and says there is no problem, while another freely admits there is and happily repairs or replaces units then that information would go a long way to helping others who have had less fortunate dealings with HP in other parts of the world.

I wish everybody the best of luck when calling HP!
JA
J.A._White
Aug 17, 2004
Just got off the phone with local tech support. The word hasn’t come down to the phone centers here yet. The fellow I spoke with was keenly interested because he drives a ZD7000 and photoshop, was aware of the ZD7000 forum as well. I definitely had his attention. He indicated to me that the word from above generally takes a couple of days to make it to the phone centers. Pretty much what I think we would/should expect.

I am supposed to get a call from the supervisor, Sandra Taylor, who took a special interest in this with my initial encounter. She seemed to have a indirect/direct link to tech R+D. I’ll report back what she has to say.
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
Hey J.A. It sounds like your local HP guys are more open minded than mine are. Thanks for the update πŸ™‚
JA
J.A._White
Aug 17, 2004
this message is for kristen i understand that you say we need to service the unit but …..what am i suppose to replace…i have replaced motherboard and ram….its not fair for you to tell your customers that they need to get it serviced when we don’t know what the problem is yet…..i am currantly working with the engineers to resolve this problem….when i finish i will let you know or thru someone else what the resolution is.
JA
J.A._White
Aug 17, 2004
I am sandra taylor posting for ja white on post number 295 and this one. thank you for your time. we will resolve this as soon as we can and then let all of you know what needs to be done. ps. if any of you have this issue and you have a case number with hp i need it as well. if you do not have a hp case number please call in and get one. mention my name just so we can document this in our system.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 17, 2004
Jay – it’ll take some time to filter through the call centers. Email me directly () and I’ve got a contact name that can help with European support.

J.A. White – also have Sandra contact me at
JA
J.A._White
Aug 17, 2004
Thanx Chris

Sorry about the sudo-posts, quicker than having her create an account.

I am on hold with her right now……..
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 17, 2004
Jeeze, an Adobe Engineer helping HP customers get their proper customer support. This is unbelievable – well, not unbelievable, but man, I’m in AWE.

It’s one thing for two folks from different companies to find a solution to a technical problem, but quite another for Adobe helping to satisfy HP customers.

Might make for an interesting SlashDot article no?
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 17, 2004
Just to clear up a few things: the message came from HP. I added it to the FAQ at their request.

HP engineers did find the root cause of the problem (it showed up with other software as well, BTW), they have created a fix and worked that fix into their manufacturing process.

They do have an official message on this, but it will take a little while for it to filter through the (huge) HP organization worldwide.

In the meantime, I’d like to thank you guys for your patience and perserverence while we worked on this matter "offscreen" πŸ˜‰
JA
J.A._White
Aug 17, 2004
OK here goes……..

25 minutes on the phone later, Sandra is not allowed to email from the office, she indicated she would contact Chris on her own time after work.

They have issued an order to pick up my machine tomorrow, for repairs. The CSO # has been flagged by the engineers and they will be in contact with the service center, monitoring and, HOPEFULLY, implementing the fix on my rig.

Sandra indicated as well that the engineers are indeed aware of this problem, believe they have a fix for all new units but stopped short of saying that I will benefit from that. They may have my rig for as long as 7-10 days!

Y’all can thank me for going first later………..either that or I am the lucky one to get mine fixed first before the rush!

Wish me luck.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 17, 2004
Sandra is not allowed to email from the office

Sounds pretty functional.
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
I’m speechless for once πŸ˜€ – What’s the deal with post #295? It makes no sense to me at all!

JA – Do you know if they will replace the motherboard or is it a component replacement?

Chris – Thanks!
GH
Grass_Hopper
Aug 17, 2004
Apparently Sandra Taylor was using J.A.White’s adobe forum user name to post something to this thread.

It appears she was speaking specifically to a gal name Kristin about her particular computer. Sounds as if mobo and ram were already replaced, but it didn’t solve the problem. (at least that’s what I get from it!)
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
Yeah, but it still seems very out of place!
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 17, 2004
Kirsten is the senior product support manager for Photoshop.

Kirsten didn’t include an instructions because she was just copying the HP announcement word for word (as I did in the FAQ).
GH
Grass_Hopper
Aug 17, 2004
Kirsten,
sorry for the typo on your name!
JA
J.A._White
Aug 17, 2004
Sorry about the confusion with posts 295 and 296. Sandra posted using my login to expedite a response SHE wanted to make,[to #277]and was a little off target. That was inappropriate on my part and I apologize.

They have replaced the motherboard and RAM in my computer previously and nothing was fixed in relationship to this problem. I believe she was basically saying, "what am I supposed to fix?"

It’s all little difficult over the phone, internet and multiple posts involved.

I am not sure just what the fix or attempted fix is or will be, Chris might be able to speak to that. Sandra admitted she just wasn’t high enough on the food chain to really know.

Sorry again for the confusion.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 17, 2004
Until they have the fixed motherboards, replacing the motherboard won’t help (because you’d be replacing a bad one with another bad one).
J
JayR
Aug 17, 2004
Oh yeah, I get that… it’s just the message said that the new ones coming off the line were sorted, so I figured they would use the same motherboard in the repairs. But that’s a question for HP I guess, please don’t think I’m bugging you for the answer to that question πŸ™‚
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 17, 2004
We just spoke to HP, and they said it’ll take a few days to a week to get the new parts into the service centers.
WH
Will_Heflin
Aug 17, 2004
Wow, so my little thread has done some good!

It’s crazy to come back to this thread and find 100+ posts since the last time I checked, I tell you what. But I’m glad everything seems to be getting resolved! I can’t wait to get this hunk of metal and plastic fixed.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 18, 2004
Yeah, you gotta give Will an "attaboy" for bringing this to the right place. Shouldn’t he get a T-shirt from HP or something?
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 18, 2004
Yeah, but the T-shirt might fall apart if he runs PS while wearing it.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 18, 2004
LMAO!
J
JayR
Aug 18, 2004
Oh the irony! I could not call HP today and pass on Chris’ contacts as I had my wisdom teeth removed and I can’t speak! but someone will call on my behalf tomorrow and I’ll update here asap.

J.A. – Awesome News! I hope your ZD arrives back with you real soon πŸ˜€ Chris – Once again, thankyou! 8)
JA
J.A._White
Aug 19, 2004
Hi All

My computer is now in the hands of the service people. Gotta admit I’m kind of nervous, which got me thinking……..

Chris if you are inclined to let your engineer buddies at HP know it’s in Freemont Ca., the CSO # is VE2652 – 01. They might be interested in monitoring this, since this is a "live" case of this problem.
J
JayR
Aug 19, 2004
Hi J.A. Have you or Chris, or indeed anybody here got any idea yet as to what the repair involves?

I don’t have much to update, I gave the contacts to my HP customer care guy and notified him that your (JA’s) unit was now at HP being repaired but he still appears to be very skeptical. He also stated that the US and UK versions of the ZD7000 were different and that just because the US ones are being repaired does not necessarily mean that my unit will also be repaired by HP. That sounded pretty gloomy, but I’m waiting and hoping that whoever has the correct contacts now comes back with some good news for me. Still, it is very worrying.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 20, 2004
That sounded pretty gloomy,

sounds like your contact is a jack a**. escalate it and get a new contact.
J
JayR
Aug 20, 2004
I tried several times to escalate it, but every time he calls back saying he is the last word on the matter. I emailed the exec office and the same guy eventually calls me back. I asked that guy if he could put me through to complaints and he said he was also handling complaints and there was nowhere else to go.

I gave him Chris’ higher HP contacts and he then forwarded them to DTech, so now I’m waiting for DTech to email the higher HP contacts and then return to my Customer Care contact. I really hope that the result of that communication chain is positive.
DN
DS_Nelson
Aug 20, 2004
Sounds like this guy is an arrogant #$d that thinks he’s the CEO.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 20, 2004
I asked that guy if he could put me through to complaints and he said he was also handling complaints and there was nowhere else to go.

Ask him if he thinks that Carly Fiona would agree, then ask make sure you ask his name and official title.

I would write her a snail mail letter in a heartbeat. But I’m a pr*ck like that.
J
JayR
Aug 20, 2004
Nah, I don’t think so, I think the communication chain is very poorly implemented so that everything non-technical, i.e. complaints and customer care in the UK is routed through his department. After all, I did email the exec office in the US and it was he in the UK who called me, it just routed that way.

However, I’m not totally naive, I do get the impression that he really does believe the line coming from his DTech department (photoshop is to blame, etc.) I also get the impression that he thinks I’m like a dog with a bone and eventually I’ll settle down and stop chasing him and his department, which is dead wrong. So there may be a certain amount of ‘fob the customer off’ attitude going on, I don’t know, it’s difficult to tell over the phone. I’m just waiting for Chris’ contacts to put him right or for the official word to get to his department, until then I will continue to bug him every few hours every day πŸ™
J
JayR
Aug 20, 2004
YrbkMgr, I thought about writing a snail mail letter to the exec office in the US, but then I had this nasty vision of it hitting the exec office, someone opening it, reading ‘UK’ in there and then forwarding it to the same guy in the UK, which would have a turnaround of weeks only to hear the same answer.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 20, 2004
I hear you Jay, but I can tell you without a doubt that if you write a snail mail letter, rather threaten to write a snail mail letter, to the exectutive offices, it won’t have to reach Carly for this individual to be questioned. I’m not saying that it’s time to do that yet, but if you word a letter professionally, with keywords that raise the flag to their sensitivities, like the words "IBM and Dell", and include the word "exposure", the words "VARs" and "support" and "CRN" – trust me, you’ll get their attention.

The point isn’t to write the letter, the point is, to position it in such a way so as to make your contact ask himself how much he feels he coulc defend his position to senior management.

All I’m saying is, in a situation like this, I wouldn’t be held hostage to a "grunt".

edit: You don’t have to say UK.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 20, 2004
edited my own post
J
JayR
Aug 20, 2004
YrbkMgr, thanks for the advice, it is very much appreciated. What do VAR and CRN mean? Ahh… I think I know what VAR is, do you mean retailer, Value Added Reseller? Although I’m still not sure what CRN means.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 20, 2004
CRN is a major publication/web site for Value Added Resellers (also called the "channel"). You can visit: http:/www.crn.com.

Point is, a customer is a pain in the butt unless their an enterprise level customer, but publicizing in an area in which their large volume customers frequent (the resellers), is a route to getting attention. CRN, like any other news organization is always interested in bringing late breaking news to the forefront, and in today’s environment, if an IBMer found out you couldn’t run Photoshop on one of HP’s laptops, they’d clean up the market with that info. HP knows this since their quality competition comes from IBM and the low price leader is Dell.

Get my point?

What would your contact at HP say if you said "Well, maybe CRN should know about this and you can be the last word with them"
J
JayR
Aug 20, 2004
To follow up…

That’s also assuming that I’m being screwed rather than just a nasty communication chain / bad policy, i.e. one departments word is gold and the company policy is not to question it. If this individual at HP is following company policy to the letter then he is doing nothing wrong but either way, yes you are correct, a snail mail letter would not make matters any worse.

I think the key would be to get someone higher to get the correct information to the DTech department and then for me to trigger a new case number, which would reset the whole process as I feel there may be a certain amount of "oh no not him again" going on.

The next step for me is to give him a few more hours and if I hear nothing then email Chris’ contacts myself and get them to ‘push’ the info to DTech and then for DTech to ‘push’ this info to my Customer Care rep. The ‘pull’ approach is either not working or it’s too slow.

I don’t know, maybe I’m being too impatient, I just see that J.A. has got much further than I have, his machine in the US (I assume) is being repaired right now and I’m still fighting the ‘It’s Adobes fault’ battle. It just seems so utterly bonkers to be in this situation and for us, the consumers to be having to do so much work ourselves to get this issue resolved.
J
JayR
Aug 20, 2004
Get my point?

Oh yes! Thankyou for wrapping it in a brick and beating me with it πŸ˜€
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 20, 2004
The next step for me is to give him a few more hours

Of course. I’m not saying "take action", I’m saying that when you get a bunch of nonesense and runaround, that there IS recourse, and you can leverage your knowledge of that recourse.

The fact is, if this leaks to the major news community for VAR’s, HP will crap in their pants. If they turn a lemon into a lemonade, then they can be heros.

By pointing this out to a person at the right level, they can make a decision as to whether or not they want a public third party to be "umpire" to what could be an embarassing situation.

Just a thought.
HK
Harron_K._Appleman
Aug 20, 2004
That’s also assuming that I’m being screwed rather than just a nasty communication chain / bad policy, i.e. one departments word is gold and the company policy is not to question it.

Jay, I fail to see the distinction.

Sounds to me as though you are getting royally nasty-communication-chain/bad-policy’d.

=-= Harron =-=
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 20, 2004
Jay, I fail to see the distinction.

<nodding>
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 20, 2004
HP has posted their document in the zd7000 support FAQ :

< http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=384807&a mp;lc=en&lang=en&cc=us&dlc=en&docname=c00224 791>

(yes, it could use a bit more detail)
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 20, 2004
Good. So now you can direct stubborn support folks to their own website. ‘Job Chris.
J
JayR
Aug 20, 2004
Thanks Chris. You’re right, it does need some more detail, but they do link to the Adobe Knowledgebase article that does go into much more detail.

I’ve been making a few calls today and I may be getting somewhere… I’ll update you guys as soon as I have anything new to report.
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 20, 2004
Jay – I got word from HP that inquiries on your behalf have been received. They’re looking into it.
J
JayR
Aug 20, 2004
Cool, thanks! I had to use your contacts myself as HP UK were either doing nothing or they were just dragging their feet, sorry if that caused you any problems, but I had taken as much as I could possibly have taken by that point. Once I decided to use the contacts myself and after several international calls later to various HP offices around the globe I got further in 5 minutes than the UK office had got in the last few months. I’m not looking forward to the next telephone bill!
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 21, 2004
From HP:

The error condition exists when two System Memory cards are installed in the notebook.

from DM:

dave milbut – 11:59am Aug 11, 04 PST (#205 of 338)

I wonder if some brave (and hardware savvy) soul might see if removing a stick from the systems with 2 ram sticks might solve the problem and point to a timing issue when multiple sticks are used

(thank you thank you!) <bows> XD
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 21, 2004
not timing, but power issues.
B
BillK999
Aug 21, 2004
Are all ZD7000s impacted or some subset?
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 21, 2004
not timing, but power issues.

still pretty close for a shot in the dark! πŸ™‚
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 21, 2004
Not surprising Dave – you’re a bright guy.
J
johnkissane3
Aug 21, 2004
Dave, no matter what those other guys say – you’re a bright guy. πŸ™‚
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 21, 2004
just kidding, of course, and hoping this all works out for the best!
CC
Chris_Cox
Aug 21, 2004
Bill – we have reports from other 7000 series laptops, but I don’t know for sure (only HP can tell us that).
DL
David_Lingard
Aug 23, 2004
I’ve read this thread with fascination and as an example of the worst customer service HP (UK) takes the prize. I live in the UK and will never buy an HP if I have to risk being treated like that. I hope HP is reading this thread because I really mean this.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 23, 2004
All due respect to those who purchase HP, I wouldn’t buy them because they make crap. <shrug>

If I were going to buy a laptop in particular, there is no better than ThinkPad. Expensive or not (not really), they’ll last longer and their design is more sound.
DA
Doug_Abdelnour
Aug 25, 2004
Check the memory – Chances are you’ve got one or more bad DIMMs installed. I had a problem on a new P-4 deskstop. I had to save files every minute or so cause it kept shutting down for no reason.

I finally checked the memory and found it to be the problem. Now, no more crashing – ever. GOOD MEMORY COSTS a little more, but if really worth it.

Try some new memory.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 25, 2004
Doug,

You’d have had to read the whole thread. It’s not the memory. It’s a manufacturing defect. This has been going on for five full months, with Adobe Engineers involved, fwiw.

Peace,
Tony
WH
Will_Heflin
Aug 25, 2004
So I’m finally at a point where i have the time and no work to ship off my laptop and get this issue fixed (hurray!). This might sound a bit annoying, especially since i started this thread and should remember all the info on these 350+ posts, but i was wondering if anyone could tell me exactly what i should be doing and telling these people to get this fixed right and under my warranty.

I also have this fear that im gonna send it off, and all they are gonna do is put that "band-aid" fix in place and declare it repaired without me even knowing the difference.

any comments regarding an of this would be much appreciated, and again I’m sorry for asking questions im sure have already been answered in the super-long thread.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 25, 2004
I would recontact tech support, verify what’s to be done, and get an RMA. But others may have more sound advice.
JA
J.A._White
Aug 25, 2004
Hey Will

I’m in mid fix right now……..waiting for a call back from my cust service supervisor who’s "overseeing" my repair. [after I called and reminded her] They’ve had it for a 7 days counting the weekend, and counting. Not certain but I think that the correct replacement motherboards are not yet available or in stock, and if I get impatient I think they’ll just put in a single stick of equivelant RAM [1 Gig=2 512s]. So patience is the best plan here or it may just be a band aid……… I will report back tomorrow afternoon, when I know more.
J
JayR
Aug 25, 2004
Hey J.A.

My machine went today, I had an email from one of chris’ higher HP contacts saying that they will repair my existing motherboard rather than using a new modified board off the line, which is a shame as I was hoping for a bonus upgrade for all the hassle and disappointment.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 25, 2004
which is a shame as I was hoping for a bonus upgrade for all the hassle and disappointment.

You still can. You contact them, explain that their replacing it for a collegue of yours, you’ll be out your computer for x number of days, this is really unacceptable, especially when you had to go through all this gag and vomit to get THEIR problem recoginized, let alone fixed. For six months the damn thing has been shutting down on me and I have work to do. Is this what I should expect when considering HP as my hardware vendor? When MY customers have problems, I’m expected to rectify them right away and I always do something to show how grateful I am to have their business.

The worst they can do is say p*ss off.

<shrug>
JA
J.A._White
Aug 26, 2004
Sandra says……….

The motherbaord WILL be replaced, but we get to wait 24 hours to get a commit time for my little buddy’s return. There were a series of bad motherboards, [really, I didn’t know that!] the new ones have been tested for this problem specifically and "all’s good".

And now I wait some more. That’s all I know right now. I have leaned on them as much as possible, asking to speak with this supervisor each time elicits a disbelieving customer service person, especially when she takes my call. It helps that she is able to contact tech directly, I think, I hope………

More later.
J
JayR
Aug 26, 2004
Lot’s of conflicting information then… I don’t know which HP contact is correct, maybe they both are. Maybe the US and UK/EU service departments are handling this fault in a different way, i.e. the US are getting new boards and the UK/EU service departments are carrying out the modifications themselves.

YrbkMgr, I did ask my HP contact if I would be getting an upgraded board and explained that I had bought this machine to do a specific job 6 months ago and that because of the fault it has not been capable of doing that job costing me projects, money, time and of course the stress of trying to sort this out, but unfortunately I didn’t have any luck.

What really bites is that if anybody was to buy a ZD7000 right now, a fixed one, one they could immediately use without problems, it would be 400 UKP cheaper compared to what I paid and they would not have this hassle.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 26, 2004
What really bites is that if anybody was to buy a ZD7000 right now, a fixed one, one they could immediately use without problems, it would be 400 UKP cheaper compared to what I paid and they would not have this hassle.

you should’ve bought a new one then returned the old saying "oops, i changed my mind. i didn’t want really want this."

only half fecitiously,
dave
JA
J.A._White
Aug 26, 2004
Dave, I like it!

At this point if I really thought I could pull it off I’d do it in a heartbeat!

Actually I don’t yet KNOW I’ll be getting a new motherboard, and a repaired one wouldn’t surprise me at all. As I said last night I will have a better idea, supposedly, by this evening, or Saturday afternoon at the latest, when Sandra comes back to work if the other customer service reps cannot answer these specific questions.

This is not suggest that Sandra is growing fonder of me, in fact quite the opposite, which hopefully is adding to her drive to resolve my problem.

I would add that anyone who hasn’t already purchased the 3 year "drop me" warranty should do so, ASAP.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 26, 2004
At this point if I really thought I could pull it off I’d do it in a heartbeat!

I MAY know someone who did this with a defective ati video card… but then, I might be imagining it…
J
JayR
Aug 26, 2004
Dave you’re a scoundrel! πŸ™‚ I like it but I’d never get away with anything like that, I’m the sort of person that would end up doing time for taking *two* pieces of complimentary cheese from the deli counter!
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 26, 2004
I had a cousin who did that. Never ate cheese again.
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 26, 2004
Dave you’re a scoundrel!

Whoa there Tex! Put them shootin’ irons away! I said I MAY KNOW someone, not me of course. Never. Unh, uh. No way!
J
JayR
Aug 26, 2004
I was referring to the first message! πŸ˜€

you should’ve bought a new one then returned the old saying "oops, i changed my mind. i didn’t want really want this."

There’s no need to be so defensive now is there!… or is there? πŸ˜‰
DM
dave_milbut
Aug 27, 2004
<whistling…>
JA
J.A._White
Aug 28, 2004
My machine is repaired and on it’s way home!

The supervisor, Sandra, overseeing my case must have assumed that since I spoke with a customer service rep this morning verifying that it was indeed repaired and not just being returned to it’s anxiously awaiting and complaining owner has not called me back. Now there’s a surprise! RIGHT! Actually I don’t blame her……….

The agent I talked with in the phone this morning verified through a resident tech that the power jack, HD bezel, and PL5 and PC159 [he believed those were motherboard repair parts] had been replaced. As suspected this appears to be a motherboard repair not replacement. As long as it works I’ll be happy.

Chris if you read this, do these parts ring any bells from your conversations with your HP connections?

That’s all the news that is news until it’s in my hands and I can test drive Photoshop.
Y
YrbkMgr
Aug 29, 2004
Sounds positive. Make sure and let us know!
J
JayR
Aug 29, 2004
That’s good news J.A. I’m going to call my customer care people on Tuesday for a status update, your info will help when quizzing them about what was repaired, thanks!
JS
Jeanne_Schlesinger
Aug 30, 2004
I, too, have an HP ZD Pavillion 7000, which frequently would shut down while using Photoshop. HP finally had me send it in and today, 18 days later, I have received it back.

They were able to duplicate my problems and responded by putting in a new system board, hard drive, and DC jack. I’ve installed Photoshop and so far (fingers crossed) the old problems haven’t recurred.
J
JayR
Aug 30, 2004
I’m guessing they took so long because they probably took it in without knowing exactly what the problem was. I bet they finally realised how to fix your system when the fix data finally made it to the repair centres in the last week or so. I’m pretty sure that would explain the delay in getting your machine back as 18 days ago we were still getting the "it’s Adobe’s fault" line from HP!

So, it looks as though you’re the first one of us to get their machine back!

I’ve installed Photoshop and so far (fingers crossed) the old problems haven’t recurred.

Awesome news! πŸ˜€
JA
J.A._White
Aug 31, 2004
Greetings

Little Hal is back, and appears to be cured! Some rudimentary test drives with Photoshop that were previously crashing the, well you know, have no adverse effects…………still don’t quite believe it, but unless you hear otherwise this is a fix!

Congrats to all who persevered, and especially a round of applause for Mr. Cox!!
WH
Will_Heflin
Aug 31, 2004
Hooray! I can’t wait to get this thing fixed! unfortunately work will prevent me from sending it any time this week. grrr…
CC
Chris_Cox
Sep 1, 2004
Thanks for the updates.

And I’m glad to hear that your machines are now working correctly.

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