Graphic tablet for handwriting recognition?

The consensus among the experts here is that Wacom is the only choice. That’s supported by eBay, where, when I was looking to buy, there were only new units – I can’t remember ever seeing anyone selling a used one.

One of the main reasons for Wacom is the painless, foolproof drivers. I’ll bet that meshes well with your plans as well.

So, what I’d do in your shoes: Buy a Wacom, and remember that, on eBay, you can sell a good device with greater ease than a crappy one.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:25:03 GMT, Jonathan Sachs
wrote:

Now, the questions: what type of tablet should I look for? Any particular brands I should look for, or avoid? (Wacom seems to go for a substantial premium. I haven’t seen any tangible reason for that apart from name recognition.)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:29:36 -0500, Wayne R.
wrote:

The consensus among the experts here is that Wacom is the only choice. That’s supported by eBay, where, when I was looking to buy, there were only new units – I can’t remember ever seeing anyone selling a used one….

I appreciate your input, but I was very surprised by it, since I have looked at the eBay listings, and I seemed to recall plenty of used Wacoms.

Therefore I returned to eBay and analyzed the first page of their current listings in the "Input Devices, Tablets" category. Here is what I found:

New Wacom tablets: 8
Used Wacom tablets: 11
Proportion new: 42%

New other tablets: 11
Used other tablets: 13
Proportion new: 46%

If the proportion of used devices on the market is significant, there seems to be no real difference between Wacom and the rest of the market as a whole. And Medion is a stand-out winner, with 6 new, 2 used, 75% new. (The total number of Medion tablets is also #2 behind Wacom, which is a plus.)

I have some doubts about the "percent new" statistic myself, since many people seem to buy these devices out of curiosity, use them once or twice, and then resell them a month or a year later. My impression is that this is true of Wacom as much as the others, and is not related to quality. Also, of course, my sample is too small to support very subtle analysis.

Your input did help me narrow my choices, although it draws me toward Medion, not Wacom. I would be interested in your further thoughts on this.

ALSO, I’m still very interested in input on my other questions, particularly about size.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

"Jonathan Sachs" wrote in message

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:29:36 -0500, Wayne R.
wrote:

Your input did help me narrow my choices, although it draws me toward Medion, not Wacom. I would be interested in your further thoughts on this.

ALSO, I’m still very interested in input on my other questions, particularly about size.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

I used to run a computer shop where we used to sell quite a few types of tablet and I used to try them all. I found a huge difference between Wacom and all the others and not just in the driver integration. I use a Wacom here and, so far, have not found anything that will compete with it.

B

"Jonathan Sachs" wrote in message

I appreciate your input, but I was very surprised by it, since I have looked at the eBay listings, and I seemed to recall plenty of used Wacoms.

That’s because Wacom has the great market share; more Wacoms in total, therefore more will be available. BTW – the technology under the touch-sensitive table laptops is Wacom (at least for my Gateway). Yep, the whole screen is a Wacom tablet, and I get an OS to boot. 🙂

Since you state that you want to minimize your expenses … go to the Wacom web site, and buy one of their refurbished tablets.

"Jonathan Sachs" wrote in message

These questions are for people who have experience using graphics tablets for handwritten text entry and editing.

I want to buy a tablet to give this technology a "test drive" with Windows XP and Word 2003. Since I don’t know whether I’ll continue using it after the test period, I want to minimize my expense. I would like to buy an older, used tablet on eBay, and I would like to buy the least expensive one I can find that will work without a lot of fussing around and will let me give the technology a realistic trial. If I decide I like it, I can buy a better tablet for real use.
Now, the questions: what type of tablet should I look for? Any particular brands I should look for, or avoid? (Wacom seems to go for a substantial premium. I haven’t seen any tangible reason for that apart from name recognition.)

How big a tablet do I need? Is 4×5" enough? Or do I need 6×8", or even bigger?

Am I likely to have any problems if I buy an older RS-232 tablet, beyond the small inconvenience of attaching an RS-232 device to a modern computer?

Anything else I should know before I start?

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:38:06 -0000, "beaver"
wrote:

I used to run a computer shop where we used to sell quite a few types of tablet and I used to try them all. I found a huge difference between Wacom and all the others and not just in the driver integration. I use a Wacom here and, so far, have not found anything that will compete with it.

First, beaver and Wayne, let me say that I do appreciate your input, and I don’t want to ignore it or give the impression that I’m going to ignore it. But I’m having trouble processing it, for a couple of reasons.

First: I have not posted on this topic before, but I’ve already researched tablets thoroughly on the Web and Usenet, and I came away with the impression that there were no substantial differences in quality between Wacom and other name brands. Yes, I read posts from people who swore that Wacom was the gold standard and nothing else measured up; but I read comparable numbers of posts from people who swore (mostly from personal experience) that this or that other brand was just as good. These were comments posted in several different newsgroups over a period of years. I’m not questioning your expertise or accuracy, but it’s not clear how I can reconcile your opinions with the balance of what I’ve found elsewhere. If you can be more specific about the differences you perceive, perhaps that will help.

Second: I asked about some other ways I might save money: buying an old RS-232 tablet and/or buying a small tablet. Obviously if I need to get a Wacom those questions are even more important than otherwise. But so far they haven’t been addressed, not even with partial answers or professed opinions. From my perspective, I’m getting answers to a question I had already answered, and no answers to the questions I asked.

Once more, I want to give your advice fair consideration; but to do so (1) I need to get some understanding of why it runs counter to the balance of the other evidence I’ve seen, and (2) I need answers to my other questions.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:05:51 GMT, "RSD99"
wrote:

Since you state that you want to minimize your expenses … go to the Wacom web site, and buy one of their refurbished tablets.

That’s a plausible suggestion but the numbers make it an impractical one.

Right now Wacom offers two refurbished tablets. The cheaper one is a 6×8" Intuos2 for $239.95.

I can buy a new 6×8" Graphire3 at Amazon.com for $169.99. Or I can buy a 4×5" Graphire3 for $89.99. And I still have no input on whether I actually NEED a 6×8" tablet (or whether I actually need one that’s even larger).

Let’s keep this simple by resolving the simple questions first: whether an RS-232 tablet would be adequate, and how big a tablet I need. Then we can move on to what brand to buy and where.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

I can buy a new 6×8" Graphire3 at Amazon.com for $169.99. Or I can buy a 4×5" Graphire3 for $89.99. And I still have no input on whether I actually NEED a 6×8" tablet (or whether I actually need one that’s even larger).

The 4×5 will be fine unless you’re doing large drawings, such as CAD. Larger tablets can actually put a strain on your arm.
It’s important to understand that the "size" of the tablet is actually the size of the drawing area. The physical size of the tablet itself is much larger and it can be hard to find room for them.
Go with the small Graphire. If you find you have to have something bigger or an Intuous, keep watch on Wacom’s site for a refurbed one (what they have changes constantly) and then sell the Graphire on e-bay.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

On 30 Jan 2005 20:50:32 GMT, (LauraK) wrote:

The 4×5 will be fine unless you’re doing large drawings, such as CAD…

The OP is several messages back now, so I had better repost the facts. I want a tablet for a trial of handwritten input with MS Word — not for drawing. I know this newsgroup is dedicated to Photoshop, but it’s the only one with a substantial amount of discussion about tablets.

It’s important to understand that the "size" of the tablet is actually the size of the drawing area. The physical size of the tablet itself is much larger and it can be hard to find room for them.

Understood.

Go with the small Graphire. If you find you have to have something bigger…

The size question is: can I give handwritten input a fair trial with a small pad? I understand that for drawing applications the size of the pad is largely a matter of convenience, but I don’t know whether that is true for handwriting.

My goal is to evaluate the technology. For that I want the least expensive device that will let me give it a fair trial. If I find it useful (and once I have some experience with which to make a choice) I will willingly pay more for whatever tablet best suits my needs.

…or an Intuous,…

As I understand it, the only substantial advantage of the Intuos is that it detects finer gradations of pressure. I know that is not significant for handwriting, so an Intuos is not necessary.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

"Jonathan Sachs" wrote in message

First: I have not posted on this topic before, but I’ve already researched tablets thoroughly on the Web and Usenet, and I came away with the impression that there were no substantial differences in quality between Wacom and other name brands.

Are you absolutely certain the other brands are not, in fact, Wacoms? It seems that Wacom has a great number of products under various names.

"Jonathan Sachs" :

As I understand it, the only substantial advantage of the Intuos is that it detects finer gradations of pressure. I know that is not significant for handwriting, so an Intuos is not necessary.

?? Really? Since when? In handwriting (not digital) it is a significant factor.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:32:52 -0600, "jjs" wrote:

As I understand it, the only substantial advantage of the Intuos is that it detects finer gradations of pressure. I know that is not significant for handwriting, so an Intuos is not necessary.

?? Really? Since when? In handwriting (not digital) it is a significant factor.

Do you have references?

The Graphire detects 512 levels of pressure and the Intuos detects 1024. The material I’ve read leads me to believe that Microsoft’s handwriting recognition software can’t tell the difference, but it’s sparse and ambiguous. I’d welcome more information, particularly more specific information.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:30:39 -0600, "jjs" wrote:

Are you absolutely certain the other brands are not, in fact, Wacoms? It seems that Wacom has a great number of products under various names.

No, I’m not sure at all. If Wacom tablets are available under another name at "we try harder" prices, I’d love to know about it. It would be an ideal solution to that part of my problem.

Logically, though, it seems improbable. If you were Wacom, why would you want to undercut your own brand name’s market position with a comparable product at a lower price?

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

I intended to ask in my original response, but here it is:

With a tablet, how do you expect to get handwriting into Word? Are you planning to just put it in as graphics? Or are you expecting something to convert your graphical input to text?

What’s your plan there?

Instinct tells me your software choice is going to be much more crucial than tablet.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:25:03 GMT, Jonathan Sachs
wrote:

These questions are for people who have experience using graphics tablets for handwritten text entry and editing.

I want to buy a tablet to give this technology a "test drive" with Windows XP and Word 2003. Since I don’t know whether I’ll continue using it after the test period, I want to minimize my expense. I would like to buy an older, used tablet on eBay, and I would like to buy the least expensive one I can find that will work without a lot of fussing around and will let me give the technology a realistic trial. If I decide I like it, I can buy a better tablet for real use.
Now, the questions: what type of tablet should I look for? Any particular brands I should look for, or avoid? (Wacom seems to go for a substantial premium. I haven’t seen any tangible reason for that apart from name recognition.)

How big a tablet do I need? Is 4×5" enough? Or do I need 6×8", or even bigger?

Am I likely to have any problems if I buy an older RS-232 tablet, beyond the small inconvenience of attaching an RS-232 device to a modern computer?

Anything else I should know before I start?

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

The OP is several messages back now, so I had better repost the facts. I want a tablet for a trial of handwritten input with MS Word — not for drawing. I know this newsgroup is dedicated to Photoshop, but it’s the only one with a substantial amount of discussion about tablets.

For what you want, why don’t you get something like Logitech’s io pen or another application that is designed for handwriting recognition? If you just want to play around, buy the cheapest Graphire you can find.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

"Wayne R." wrote in message

I intended to ask in my original response, but here it is:
With a tablet, how do you expect to get handwriting into Word? Are you planning to just put it in as graphics? Or are you expecting something to convert your graphical input to text?

Microsoft’s software does a fair job of importing tablet graphics through the XP tablet software.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:29:36 -0500, Wayne R.
wrote:

The consensus among the experts here is that Wacom is the only choice. That’s supported by eBay, where, when I was looking to buy, there were only new units – I can’t remember ever seeing anyone selling a used one.

There is one place to get a Used one – Wacom. They sell the ones they take to trade shows for demos. I got one for only 60% of the new price – and it looked completely new.

—

Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:25:06 GMT, Jonathan Sachs
wrote:

My goal is to evaluate the technology. For that I want the least expensive device that will let me give it a fair trial. If I find it useful (and once I have some experience with which to make a choice) I will willingly pay more for whatever tablet best suits my needs.

OK. Buy a junk tablet like an Aiptek or a Trust. The build quality is lousy, but if you’re only using it for an eval it should last you a few months before something breaks. If a tablet is what you want, then buy a Wacom.

—

Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui

"jjs" wrote in message

"Wayne R." wrote in message

I intended to ask in my original response, but here it is:
With a tablet, how do you expect to get handwriting into Word? Are you planning to just put it in as graphics? Or are you expecting something to convert your graphical input to text?

Microsoft’s software does a fair job of importing tablet graphics through the XP tablet software.

I have a Wacom tablet of several years of age (approx 5) and it works like a dream, whether I am working with images or handwriting signatures and the like. It came with software that let me type directly into MS Office 97 (at the time) and Office 2003 let’s you do it directly now anyway. A 6" x 4" is probably all you need if you are going to be handwriting signatures etc. You seem to be very argumentative about this whole topic. Just buy a Wacom, enjoy it’s quality, reliability and accuracy and don’t be a cheapskate. If you buy a crap unit for "evaluation" purposes, chances are it won’t do the job properly and you won’t endeavour to continue on with the technology. Buy a decent one and you will most likely love the technology. No disrespect intended, but you seem very pedantic over a minor issue. Just buy one!
Brian.

"Brian" wrote in message

"jjs" wrote in message

"Wayne R." wrote in message

I intended to ask in my original response, but here it is:
With a tablet, how do you expect to get handwriting into Word? Are you planning to just put it in as graphics? Or are you expecting something to convert your graphical input to text?

Microsoft’s software does a fair job of importing tablet graphics through the XP tablet software.

Ok, Jonathan, I have probably the best suggestion for you here. I don’t know where you are located, but I am in Australia. Over here we can walk into a shop that specializes in computers and graphic type products and actually try one out. I would walk into one of these shops and explain my situation…that I want to "try out" a graphics tablet and would like some guidance on its uses and capabilities.

Have someone show you one in action, how it works with Office, let you have a play around with it and explain to you the difference between tablets. Maybe even let you try 2 or 3 and see how they feel "to you". That way it will cost you nothing to find out what you want to know. Good luck, Brian.

Perhaps the OP would like to share his aspirations with us.

I’m sure he doesn’t intend that a graphic signature would represent a real signature; that is, as an authoritative mark of the individual. That said, we all know that the tablet can recognize variations in pressure, and the map (direction of travel) and speed (overall and in the map parts) of the signature as it is made. Those two things have a lot to do with making a signature unique. Therein may be an interesting application.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:34:53 GMT, Jonathan Sachs
wrote:

… And I still have no input on whether I
actually NEED a 6×8" tablet (or whether I actually need one that’s even larger).

Let’s keep this simple by resolving the simple questions first: whether an RS-232 tablet would be adequate, and how big a tablet I need. Then we can move on to what brand to buy and where.

On a real Tablet PC there are two modes of handwriting entry. In any app you can write a word or phrase at a time in the text entry box, and then release it to your document (wherever you left the cursor) as text or "ink". For this any small tablet would be fine. Except I’m not sure how you would line up what you are writing on the digitiser with the text entry line in the on-screen entry box…

In Word and a few other specially enabled apps, you can write directly on your screen-displayed document, at any location, and have the input remain as "ink" or be recognized as text. Since the Tablet PC digitiser matches the screen size, this is quite intuitive. Of course the relative size of your screen display vs. the size of your handwriting still matters…

With a separate digitiser hooked to a regular PC, not matched in size and calibrated to your display screen, I can’t imagine this "write in place" mode being useful. But I’ve never tried it…

FWIW, the digitiser on my Tablet PC is (internally) RS-232. It seems to work about the same for handwriting recognition with or without the Wacom "pressure sensitive" driver.

Loren

Jonathan Sachs wrote:

Once more, I want to give your advice fair consideration; but to do so (1) I need to get some understanding of why it runs counter to the balance of the other evidence I’ve seen, and (2) I need answers to my other questions.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t can’t make it drink!

So… Here’s a "how many" one for you.
How many experienced artists does it take to decide on the brand of a graphics tablet?
Answer: All of them if it’s a Wacom!

Doug

"Loren Amelang" wrote in message

On a real Tablet PC there are two modes of handwriting entry. In any app you can write a word or phrase at a time in the text entry box, and then release it to your document (wherever you left the cursor) as text or "ink". For this any small tablet would be fine. Except I’m not sure how you would line up what you are writing on the digitiser with the text entry line in the on-screen entry box…

Good God, is the OP really suggesting that the existence of a bitmapped facsimile of a signature will serve as a signature? Is he nutz?

Jonathan Sachs wrote:

My goal is to evaluate the technology. For that I want the least expensive device that will let me give it a fair trial. If I find it useful (and once I have some experience with which to make a choice) I will willingly pay more for whatever tablet best suits my needs.

I have a goal too.
To see if I can enlarge a digital image to a wallpaper size print and still keep it’s resolution. Now if you can see the logic in what I’m about to say, you might see the logic in what all the artist here are telling you (with great patience,I might add) about Wacom tablets. ….
I need to evaluate the technology to see if it is practical for my application. Should I buy a $50 digital camera or a $5000 one to take the picture I will then evaluate to see if I can achiever my goal?

10 people say use the $50 camera, what the hell.
2 Photographers who ply their trade tell me I really need a $25,000 camera.

The weight of opinion is therefore 10 in favor of the cheap solution and only 2 telling me to mortgage my house for the camera. Should I go with majority of opinion or take the advise of just 2 people?

Moreover, if I fail to achieve my goal with the $50 camera and abandon the project, what or who should I blame? Those "vast majority" of newsgroup junkies who really didn’t have the experience to offer advise anyway or myself, for having declined the combined experience of everyday professionals who most definitely do have the experience to offer advise?

Doug

On 31 Jan 2005 01:56:28 GMT, (LauraK) wrote:

For what you want, why don’t you get something like Logitech’s io pen or another application that is designed for handwriting recognition?

I’ll explain more about what I need. I did not put this in the OP because I did not realize it would become relevant.

I have carpal tunnel syndrome, and my ability to type is limited. However, my surgeon advised me that handwriting would not be hurtful, and in fact would be beneficial because it would strengthen the muscles in my hand.

I currently rely on speech recognition (Dragon NaturallySpeaking) as a keyboard substitute for anything more than entering a line or two at a time. For input it is a fairly good solution; for editing, it is much less effective because it has trouble recognizing words when they are spoken one or two at a time, as opposed to being used in longer phrases or sentences.

I am interested in handwriting recognition, and thus in graphics tablets, because it might be an alternative mode of input that complements speech recognition: that works best for the tasks where speech recognition works most poorly.

If handwriting recognition is useful to me, it will be useful primarily for editing Microsoft Word documents which I have created by speech. If I can use it at all with other applications, that’s great, but I’m not counting on it.

I was not aware of Logitech’s product. I looked it up; it’s interesting, but from what I’ve just explained I’m sure you’ll understand why it would not be useful to me.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

"Jonathan Sachs" wrote in message

I am interested in handwriting recognition, and thus in graphics tablets, because it might be an alternative mode of input that complements speech recognition: that works best for the tasks where speech recognition works most poorly.

Get a tablet PC. The Gateway M275 is good. It has everything you want, but it ain’t cheap. Yet. I am using one at this moment. My client has 8,000 of them in use. Frankly, even with carpal tunnel, typing is easier than hassling with handwriting recognition. Believe it.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:36:17 -0600, "jjs" wrote:

Get a tablet PC….

I am very interested in those as well, and I think I probably will buy one when I finish my retraining program, have a job again, and can afford to spend $2000 or so for a second computer. I am not going to buy one now because:

1. I can’t afford it.

2. Since it would be a stand-alone computer rather than an input device, it would not solve the problem I am now trying to solve unless I made it my primary machine, and

3. So far, tablet PCs all have small (1024×768) screens, limited numbers of USB connectors, and relatively slow chipsets, any one of which would be a deal-breaker for my primary machine.

Again, I appreciate all of the suggestions, and I do NOT want to seem argumentative or rude, but I feel a growing sense of frustration at getting so many suggestions that relate to my situation only obliquely, or not at all. PLEASE, can we stick to the facts and the objective that I have described?

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

"Jonathan Sachs" wrote in message

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:36:17 -0600, "jjs" wrote:

Get a tablet PC….

I am very interested in those as well, and I think I probably will buy one when I finish my retraining program, have a job again, and can afford to spend $2000 or so for a second computer. I am not going to buy one now because:

1. I can’t afford it.

2. Since it would be a stand-alone computer rather than an input device, it would not solve the problem I am now trying to solve unless I made it my primary machine, and

3. So far, tablet PCs all have small (1024×768) screens, limited numbers of USB connectors, and relatively slow chipsets, any one of which would be a deal-breaker for my primary machine.

Again, I appreciate all of the suggestions, and I do NOT want to seem argumentative or rude, but I feel a growing sense of frustration at getting so many suggestions that relate to my situation only obliquely, or not at all. PLEASE, can we stick to the facts and the objective that I have described?

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

"Jonathan Sachs" wrote in message

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:36:17 -0600, "jjs" wrote:

Get a tablet PC….

2. Since it would be a stand-alone computer rather than an input device, it would not solve the problem I am now trying to solve unless I made it my primary machine, and

Can you clarify? It is _both_ a Wacom tablet and a full-blown PC. The whole screen is the tablet.

3. So far, tablet PCs all have small (1024×768) screens, limited numbers of USB connectors, and relatively slow chipsets, any one of which would be a deal-breaker for my primary machine.

Yes, it’s not very fast but I manage to cut 1mb image files in Photoshop routinely.

Again, I appreciate all of the suggestions, and I do NOT want to seem argumentative or rude, but I feel a growing sense of frustration at getting so many suggestions that relate to my situation only obliquely, or not at all. PLEASE, can we stick to the facts and the objective that I have described?

With respect, you were being rather oblique, or at least obscure.

That said, and closing I have a number of clients who can only use two fingers and they get along well enough with the tablet, and far better than they would if they had to use the handwriting recognition software.

Handwriting recognition software is not good enough to replace the keyboard.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:21:27 -0600, "jjs" <john&#064;xstafford.net> wrote:

"Loren Amelang" wrote in message

On a real Tablet PC there are two modes of handwriting entry. In any app you can write a word or phrase at a time in the text entry box, and then release it to your document (wherever you left the cursor) as text or "ink". For this any small tablet would be fine. Except I’m not sure how you would line up what you are writing on the digitiser with the text entry line in the on-screen entry box…

Good God, is the OP really suggesting that the existence of a bitmapped facsimile of a signature will serve as a signature? Is he nutz?

I’m not sure why you attached your reply to my post, but FWIW, I routinely sign Word documents with a bitmap "ink" signature, and not one recipient has ever commented. They probably don’t even realize it is digital. And if a fax copy of a signature is acceptable, why not a much better-looking "ink" copy?

And BTW, I don’t recall the OP ever mentioning signatures…

The OP did mention editing voice-recognized documents. I hate to sound negative, but handwriting recognition is dictionary based, just like voice recognition. If you are trying to "write" common phrases that exist in its dictionary, either will work well. If you are trying to write something unique (names, technical terms) both will fight you to the end. You will end up clicking them in letter-by-letter. (Hopefully into the dictionary, so you can write them next time…)

Seriously, for editing text, character-by-character entry can’t be beat. On my tablet, I use MEOK – the MessagEase Onscreen Keyboard. <http://www.exideas.com/ME/Products.html>
It lets you enter any character or control key using minimum movement through a system of gestures. Much easier to learn than it sounds, and very wrist-friendly. I’m not sure what difficulties you would find using it without the direct one-to-one screen to digitiser correspondence of a real tablet, though.

Loren

"Loren Amelang" wrote in message

I’m not sure why you attached your reply to my post, but FWIW, I routinely sign Word documents with a bitmap "ink" signature, and not one recipient has ever commented. They probably don’t even realize it is digital. And if a fax copy of a signature is acceptable, why not a much better-looking "ink" copy?

In critical applications, neither is a real signature. I’m sure you and I won’t ever be doing business in which a bitmapped signature will be honored.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:24:32 -0600, "jjs" <john&#064;xstafford.net> wrote:

"Loren Amelang" wrote in message

I’m not sure why you attached your reply to my post, but FWIW, I routinely sign Word documents with a bitmap "ink" signature, and not one recipient has ever commented. They probably don’t even realize it is digital. And if a fax copy of a signature is acceptable, why not a much better-looking "ink" copy?

In critical applications, neither is a real signature. I’m sure you and I won’t ever be doing business in which a bitmapped signature will be honored.

It’ll happen, just not yet.

—

Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 03:03:11 GMT, Jonathan Sachs
wrote:

On 31 Jan 2005 01:56:28 GMT, (LauraK) wrote:

For what you want, why don’t you get something like Logitech’s io pen or another application that is designed for handwriting recognition?

I’ll explain more about what I need. I did not put this in the OP because I did not realize it would become relevant.

I have carpal tunnel syndrome, and my ability to type is limited. However, my surgeon advised me that handwriting would not be hurtful, and in fact would be beneficial because it would strengthen the muscles in my hand.

I currently rely on speech recognition (Dragon NaturallySpeaking) as a keyboard substitute for anything more than entering a line or two at a time. For input it is a fairly good solution; for editing, it is much less effective because it has trouble recognizing words when they are spoken one or two at a time, as opposed to being used in longer phrases or sentences.

I have fibromyalgia. I use Dragon as well. But, I can assure you that handwriting will hurt if done for any length of time – speaking and typing (a little) is much better. Using Photoshop, the tablet and pen is much better, but only since the last two iterations of tablets. Why? Because Wacom give you a nice4 fat pen which means you don’t have to apply much pressure to hold it (the wider a pen is the less physical pressure there is holding it).

Solution: Buy rubber bands – wind round pen several times to make barrel much larger. Result: More comfortable pen. The Wacom pens are good now though.

—

Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:50:28 -0600, "jjs" wrote:

2. Since it would be a stand-alone computer rather than an input device, it would not solve the problem I am now trying to solve unless I made it my primary machine, and

Can you clarify? It is _both_ a Wacom tablet and a full-blown PC. The whole screen is the tablet.

If a tablet PC can function as a transparent input device for a host computer, that will resolve some of my issues. I’d appreciate it if you could give me a reference to information about that. When the machines were introduced I hoped and assumed that they could do that, but I could not find any information one way or the other.

But that is secondary to my immediate issues, since I can’t afford a tablet right now anyway. (And if I could, I would be hesitant to pay $2000 for one as I am to pay perhaps $500 for a large Wacom tablet without evaluating the handwriting recognition technology first )

Yes, it’s not very fast but I manage to cut 1mb image files in Photoshop routinely.

I’m speaking from my experience with fairly recent laptop computers, which have fewer design constraints than tablet PCs, yet run critical applications several times slower than desktop machines with the same clock speed. NaturallySpeaking is my primary critical application; certain large macros I’ve developed in Microsoft Word VBA are also critical.

With respect, you were being rather oblique, or at least obscure.

Would you please identify the information you need that I have not disclosed? I will be happy to provide it.

That said, and closing I have a number of clients who can only use two fingers and they get along well enough with the tablet, and far better than they would if they had to use the handwriting recognition software.
Handwriting recognition software is not good enough to replace the keyboard.

You are going to have to clarify that. Are these clients using the tablet with handwriting recognition software, or not? (I would assume not, since I don’t see how a person who can only use two fingers could do handwriting.) If not, what is the relevance of the fact that they are using a tablet?

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:12:41 +0000, Hecate wrote:

I have fibromyalgia. I use Dragon as well. But, I can assure you that handwriting will hurt if done for any length of time – speaking and typing (a little) is much better.

With all due respect, you cannot assure me of any such thing. First, because your physical condition is different from mine; more to the point, because you are not me. Your experience (or mine) is not necessarily valid even for another person with the same condition.

Apart from my surgeon’s advice, I know from experience that handwriting with pen and paper does not hurt, nor does it aggravate my condition. If I write more than a page or so at a time my hand muscles get very tired, but that is all. On the other hand, typing more than a few lines at a time does not hurt either, but it DOES aggravate my condition.

I am trying to investigate a tool which I have reason to believe may be usable and helpful for me. Please respect my judgment in that, as I respect yours.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

"Jonathan Sachs" wrote

With all due respect, you cannot assure me of any such thing. First, because your physical condition is different from mine; more to the point, because you are not me.

Get to work, get a life. Nobody is going to feel you are special. We all have our things to deal with.

"Hecate" wrote in message

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:24:32 -0600, "jjs" <john&#064;xstafford.net> wrote:

"Loren Amelang" wrote in message

I’m not sure why you attached your reply to my post, but FWIW, I routinely sign Word documents with a bitmap "ink" signature, and not one recipient has ever commented. They probably don’t even realize it is digital. And if a fax copy of a signature is acceptable, why not a much better-looking "ink" copy?

In critical applications, neither is a real signature. I’m sure you and I won’t ever be doing business in which a bitmapped signature will be honored.

It’ll happen, just not yet.

—

Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui

Who said anything about critical applications? These tablets are great for putting a signature at the end of a letter being e-mailed or faxed. On a fax, no-one would know either way whether you had written with a pen or a graphics pen. Why are people so negative about everything all the time? Brian.

"Brian" wrote in message

Who said anything about critical applications? These tablets are great for putting a signature at the end of a letter being e-mailed or faxed. On a fax, no-one would know either way whether you had written with a pen or a graphics pen. Why are people so negative about everything all the time?

"Signature" means something else in the digital world. It is not just a picture of your handwritten name. That was what I was referring to.

Jonathan Sachs wrote:

….

I currently rely on speech recognition (Dragon NaturallySpeaking) as a keyboard substitute for anything more than entering a line or two at a time. For input it is a fairly good solution; for editing, it is much less effective because it has trouble recognizing words when they are spoken one or two at a time, as opposed to being used in longer phrases or sentences.

Have you tried holding down the left shift key when you want to speak only one word or so? By default, left shift should force dictation recognition. Just holding down the shift key and speaking might be a lot easier than typing even one word.

If you’re using Dragon NaturallySpeaking version 7, this is the path for hot key setup:
Tools – Options… – Hot keys

Also, if you haven’t, you might try assigning/using a key for Microphone on/off. That helps for general Windows use because you can easily avoid erroneous commands. It’s better than verbally turning off the microphone, in my opinion.

Good luck.

—
Just visiting. I was cruising the archives and noticed your post. I hope you don’t mind.

"jjs" wrote in message

"Brian" wrote in message

Who said anything about critical applications? These tablets are great for putting a signature at the end of a letter being e-mailed or faxed. On a fax, no-one would know either way whether you had written with a pen or a graphics pen. Why are people so negative about everything all the time?

"Signature" means something else in the digital world. It is not just a picture of your handwritten name. That was what I was referring to.
oh ok, thanks for enlightening me 🙂