I think this is the first time Ps interface took a step backwards, it looks like it came from windows 3.1. It is just ugly. Here are my initial complaints:
application frame is an interesting option but application bar takes too much space with mostly useless tools UI is flat – harsh – harder to read hard to hit pallet close box pallets will not dock properly why does hue "click on photo" adjustment not work? (it works in lightroom) why does Ps not respect the dock any more? tool bar doesn’t have any lines between icons – can we have an option for that? THE USE OF CAPITALS IS ANNOYING no upgrade price from CS3 extended
bridge window is cluttered when quickly flipping trough photos bridge stops momentarily to allow the thumbnail animation to catch up, I want function, not cute animation!
OK that would be fine. I did really like CS3. It is annoying that ACR, Bridge & Ps all look different! If I could have CS3 or CS2 GUI back I would be happy. Can’t stand the new toolbar, makes me feel like I’m on windows.
I think Adobe is attempting to get a unified UI for everything. At least that how it appears. But realize that CS4 is the first implementation of that. Like all features it generally takes 2 or 3 retail releases to see a feature finalized. I mean.. compare 3D in CS3 and CS4… see 🙂
I thought CS3 was the beginning of the ugly UI. But seriously does the UI stop you from creating cool shit? Quit whining and look at what CS4 can do to create something.
Yes the tools are good. Love Camera Raw 5! But still, I like my tools to look nice. Aesthetics are always part of the consideration, just think about it whenever you are buying something – from a postcard to a car – it is almost always part of the decision.
I think it was in some respect. But CS4 shows a more unified UI across the entire Suite of applications. So CS4 is more phase 2. At least that’s my perception.
I am going to find this very interesting to watch you are going to start out hating CS4 and then start to praise it and eventually really like it especially the GUI
"HEAD Productions – 10:04pm Oct 24, 08 PST (#7 of 11) Here is a new one. Fit on screen ignores panels and the image therefore is partly obscured by them. Just sloppiness again. "
That ‘Fit on Screen’ doesn’t take into consideration the position of panels does make it harder to get work done.
The design is far from "sloppy" IMHO you obviously just haven’t learned how to use the new GUI fully as yet.
As I said previously, using the Application Frame would give you the results that you are seeking if it worries you that the panels overlap the image area in Full Screen mode because that is how "Full Screen" mode is supposed to work.
The reference is to ‘Fit on Screen’, and a few iterations ago of PS, the image was sized to take into account the position of panels. It is bothersome.
You can use "Fit on Screen" in the Application frame too. In that case, the image fits the App. Frame window while the panels can remain outside of it unless you choose to float them.
Full Screen mode means exactly that and ‘Fit on Screen’ will fill your monitor wall-to-wall with the panels floating on top.
Hit the tab key to hide or reveal the panels at will.
Give the Application Frame a keyboard Shortcut to select/deselect it on-the-fly.
"you obviously just haven’t learned how to use the new GUI fully as yet"
I am trying. I do not want to use the app frame at the moment. The wording in Ps is ‘Fit on Screen’ and I think it should mean ‘Fit on "available" Screen’ otherwise it is almost useless. In every screen mode, weather there are panels or not, app frame or not, ‘Fit on Screen’ should show the full unobscured image. When working on a file, no matter which screen mode I am using, I often want to go back and check how this effects the image as a whole.
"Full Screen mode means exactly that and ‘Fit on Screen’ will fill your monitor wall-to-wall with the panels floating on top"
and yet, if you choose ‘Fit on Screen’ when the panels are shown, tab to hide the panels and choose "Fit to Screen" again the image gets slightly bigger. So when the panels are present it is not true wall to wall nor the useful IMHO ‘Fit to "available" Screen’
The wording in Ps is ‘Fit on Screen’ and I think it should mean ‘Fit on "available" Screen’
which is EXACTLY what it DOES mean: the IMAGE fits either within the Application Frame OR within the bounds of the monitor’s total screen area your choice.
The visibility and positioning of the Panels is a separate issue and has no bearing on the way that the Image Display Area is set.
You just have to learn how to use the new GUI to best-suit your own idiosyncrasies although you always retain the freedom to return to CS3 if you prefer that version.
The wording in Ps is ‘Fit on Screen’ and I think it should mean ‘Fit on "available" Screen’
which is EXACTLY what it DOES mean: the IMAGE fits either within the Application Frame OR within the bounds of the monitor’s total screen area your choice.
The visibility and positioning of the Panels is a separate issue and has no bearing on the way that the Image Display Area is set.
If the panels are using the screen area, to me that is not available screen. Visibility of panels docked to the side should have a bearing on the way images are displayed.
Use the frame yu will find it has a very big advantage and solves a particular problem that you have been having since the first time you use d a computer with a gui.
Just use the frame and just for a couple of days and then it will dawn on you you will never go back to the old way.
I don’t why they did not make the application frame as the default behavior. especially if you use one monitor you will find the frame very friendly in many ways.
I give you a hint. If you move the frame to get to say the desktop the documents moves the tools move the control panel moves and the panels move all as one unit.
Drag it back and everything is where you left it except floating panels. And there maybe one or two you want to float.
One day I am hoping the frame will allow you to open several different applications and tab the documents in one common frame and you could just tab through them I got it I got it I go tit. I cons on the tabs that show up in a Bridge panel.
Hover over the icon and you see the documents. and and application Icon as well.
So when the panels are present it is not true wall to wall nor the useful IMHO ‘Fit to "available" Screen’
I see that behavior in full screen mode but the behavior you want is in standard mode. If you want your image to take up a certain area of the screen (fit to available screen) but not the whole screen, then you’re talking about a windowed mode. In either of the full screen modes, the window for the image is the whole screen.
So it sounds like you want something that isn’t really consistent with the paradigm, as much as I agree that "fit to screen" is useful only in windowed mode or when the panels are hidden.
BTW, I personally hate dual-monitor setups. I use one in a client’s office because that’s what they have, but having two monitors is no substitute for having a single monitor of adequate size. I hate trying to figure out where the mouse pointer is or where it will appear when I drag the mouse off the side. Never mind having to travel all the way over there just to get at my tools. But to the point here, a second monitor has never been a substitute for intelligent UI design.
I’m afraid I’m still a little unclear as to the benefit of the application frame, but I solve the problem I’ve been having since the first time I used a computer with a gui with three keystrokes: F-F-Tab. Sudden Photoshop Nirvana whether I’m on a 12" laptop screen or the 30" at the desktop. =^)
Steven I agree with the F-key route, it was an easy way, but you can create a new also easy to use full frame workflow using the application frame window and creating your own workspaces dragging the panels and palettes on to it (watch for the thin blue line to appear) and select a custom background color for the frame. This is similar to the first f key in CS3.
You should really give it a try, I also hated the App frame at first but after getting used to it I begin starting to like it. The main downside is the need to hide PS when you want to use the mouseclick to select another app or desktop but eventually you will get used to it. Working in tab window mode is getting a better and better workflow for me.
I’ve been giving it a try and I don’t hate it, but I’m not sure what the advantage is. Maybe I’ll try watching the training videos and see what they have to say. I guess it’s hard to find much advantage in arranging the panels and palettes when what I really want to do is make them all go away! Even so, I can arrange the palettes and panels without the application frame.
My reaction is not "this sucks" but "I don’t really see a lot of difference."
One thing I don’t like is that when I go from the App Frame back to a non-App Frame setup, my windows all go back to being stacked instead of tabbed. I’m looking for a way to turn the tabs back on.
One thing I don’t like is that when I go from the App Frame back to a non-App Frame setup, my windows all go back to being stacked instead of tabbed. I’m looking for a way to turn the tabs back on.
For that you can use 2 options:
1 – the Arrange documents icon in the top menu bar from PS, This has a lot of viewing options depending on how much files you have opened. The first full screen icon brings all files back to tab. For some reason the drop down menu only works when you first click on the arrange icon and then choose an icon from the drop down menu, the usual one go route with holding down mouse does not work here.
2- go to the menu view and choose the options under arrange and choose: consolidate all to tabs
does anyone know where the web photo gallery is now in photoshop cs4? It shows in the adobe photoshop CS4 preset folder, but when i try and open photoshop and go in file/automate there is anywhere can be found!!
Yes I’ve heard of laptops, and why anyone would work in photoshop on one is crazy. I can see having one to take into the field to upload your images from a camera and check things out but to use them as a primary photoshop work station? they have limited RAM no scratch drive and sub par monitors.
does anyone know where the web photo gallery is now in photoshop cs4?
Normally, one should make Web Galleries in CS4 using the vastly superior tools now found in the Bridge Output panel.
If you still want to use the old CS3 Photoshop method, you need to install the Optional Plug-ins which are supplied in the Goodies folder or which can be downloaded from Adobe’s site.
New CS4 interface breaks macintosh workflow and brings many annoyances here and there. For example window topbar can be overplapped by options bar and you have to move options bar first and then you can move window. In Flash CS4 (sorry for OT) things goes even worse: we no longer can option+click window title to reveal FLA file in Finder. This new Adobe interface is plain wrong – breaks things making Mac OS X such good environment for everyday work.
Yes I’ve heard of laptops, and why anyone would work in photoshop on one is crazy. I can see having one to take into the field to upload your images from a camera and check things out but to use them as a primary photoshop work station? they have limited RAM no scratch drive and sub par monitors
Except something like the Dell Covet, with it’s 100% RGB LED screen, 16gb of ram and twin 128gb Raid SSDs… ahem 😀
So it sounds like you want something that isn’t really consistent with the paradigm, as much as I agree that "fit to screen" is useful only in windowed mode or when the panels are hidden.
Exactly, so if "fit to screen" would work as "fit to ‘available’ screen" when the panels are showing it would be great. I don’t think anyone would complain.
well first of all thanks for the help, will try to install the plug-ins that i have in the goodies folder, however am now very much curious in using the bridge applications. anyone can instruct me how?
"Normally, one should make Web Galleries in CS4 using the vastly superior tools now found in the Bridge Output panel"
Open Bridge CS4’s Output Panel; Click on the Web Gallery icon; and choose a template and Style.
Select some images in the Contents Panel; customize in the drop-down menus in the Output Panel; hit "Refresh Preview" to see how it will look; and click Save.
Exactly, so if "fit to screen" would work as "fit to ‘available’ screen" when the panels are showing it would be great. I don’t think anyone would complain.
But like I said, it doesn’t fit the logical model of what "full screen" means. You’re asking for the image to appear off-center in a window (which we’ve never been able to do though I’m sure it wouldn’t be all that hard for the developers) or else for the edge of the window to appear inside the "available" space–in which case it’s no longer full screen mode.
I guess what I should be asking here is: how would what you’re asking for be any different from windowed mode? How would it still behave as full-screen mode, where the image workspace goes from edge to edge and the palettes float on top? Or: if that’s the way you want it to work, why aren’t you just using windowed mode?
Please understand that I’m not trying to be challenging. I don’t think the "I think it’s perfect so any suggestion for change must be wrong" approach taken by some here is constructive at all. It just seems what you’re asking for is somewhat like asking for a pencil tool with soft edges…. why not use the brush tool? You want a full-screen mode where the workspace is bounded by the panels, when full-screen mode is by definition the mode where the workspace is not bounded by the panels.
Correct me if I don’t understand your problem but when using the application frame as a start you can drag panels to the side of it and they match to the frame itself. You can also choose different lay outs that can be saved in workspaces that you can quickly approach in the right top off the frame window. Opening a file in this window does centre in the available free space between tools, panels and palettes (like the first F-key in CS3) as long as you have dragged those to the side and released when the blue line showed so that they are fitted in the frame itself and not on top of it. You can also resize this total window using all the corners and all the sides.
Correct me if I don’t understand your problem but when using the application frame as a start you can drag panels to the side of it and they match to the frame itself. You can also choose different lay outs that can be saved in workspaces that you can quickly approach in the right top off the frame window.
I don’t really have a problem, I’m just having trouble seeing benefit to a new feature.
What you describe above can all be done without the application frame. The panels all line up at the side and automatically adjust their height up at the side of the screen without using the application frame, and you can save workspaces with different layouts without the application frame. So… the benefit is that you get a nice box to put it in, I guess.
I don’t have anything against it; it doesn’t get in my way, I’m just wondering what the point is.
Opening a file in this window does centre in the available free space between tools, panels and palettes (like the first F-key in CS3) as long as you have dragged those to the side and released when the blue line showed so that they are fitted in the frame itself and not on top of it.
Again, all this is true without the application frame.
You can also resize this total window using all the corners and all the sides.
Ok this is odd!! I installed the cs4 premium design applications on my mac and for some strange reasons Bridge is in italian when everything else is in english as i have chosen. Now I am italian but how that is possible since i have chosen english as language and all the applications – Ps, Id, Ai, Fl and Dw – are in english?? spooky!
I don’t have anything against it; it doesn’t get in my way, I’m just wondering what the point is.
Because a neutral grey uncluttered backdrop is important for those doing colour-critical work. Previously, Mac users had to do things like change their desktop to grey (which completely defeated Mac-users arguments about how user-friendly, better looking and customizable the OS is) and clean up their desktop of icons or use 3rd-party apps to achieve the same. Now they have the option to automatically start up Photoshop with the desired environment built-in.
Ok this is odd!! I installed the cs4 premium design applications on my mac and for some strange reasons Bridge is in italian when everything else is in english as i have chosen.
Gabrielle: In the Bridge preferences under Advanced you can choose the language you like 🙂
As for your second question (and you really are going off topic btw) do you mean webgallery?
Mac users had to do things like change their desktop to grey (which completely defeated Mac-users arguments about how user-friendly, better looking and customizable the OS is)
Funny thing is that I find any computer screen that is NOT set to a neutral gray to be User-UNfriendly in the extreme.
Exactly. Which is why Windows handled it so well, because Photoshop had the user-friendly grey background, while at the same time, allowed the freedom to customize the desktop itself to whatever the user wanted.
I have ALWAYS had "the freedom to customize the Desktop itself to whatever [I} wanted" which happens to be GRAY with a totally unobtrusive faintly textured overall pattern in it.
Like Ann I have always made a custom gray desktop image something you won’t get in Photoshop. No matter what you say or what you link to Peter I will not start liking the application frame. That’s just how I work. You on the other hand seem to like it. Thats just fine, feel free to keep using it.
But thats why you can turn it on and off. So you don’t have to use it if you don’t like it.
I have ALWAYS had "the freedom to customize the Desktop itself to whatever [I} wanted" which happens to be GRAY with a totally unobtrusive faintly textured overall pattern in it.
Hm, sounds similar to "you can have it in any colour, as long as it’s black." That’s great Ann. Windows users have been able to have a desktop that’s not limited to grey with faint textures. They could be multi-coloured. They could have any textures they wanted. They could have any photo they desired, and still have a professional photo-editing environment.
Buko, that’s too bad. There are advantages. I can’t see any ways that the app frame would hinder a mac user (unless that user just absolutely loved moving around image documents and hunting and pecking at windows underneath, a la OS9 and previous. Exposé and the dock made those methods obsolete.) The app frame makes it even easier to paste or drag items from other apps or finder windows into photoshop too, since you’re not limited to targeting the dock icon. I’ve used both environments extensively so I know which way works better by experience. If you choose not to try it based on the assumption that the "windoze" way is always worse, as opposed to experiencing it first-hand, well then…
I agree with Buko. And the app frame really is in the way if you use any other application at the same time as you use Photoshop and/or quickly want to reach the desktop.
Because a neutral grey uncluttered backdrop is important for those doing colour-critical work. Previously, Mac users had to do things like change their desktop to grey (which completely defeated Mac-users arguments about how user-friendly, better looking and customizable the OS is) and clean up their desktop of icons or use 3rd-party apps to achieve the same. Now they have the option to automatically start up Photoshop with the desired environment built-in.
I don’t buy it. Even with the application frame, you still see your desktop and the Dock with all its colorful icons unless you switch to full-screen mode. If you’re in full-screen mode, the problem is solved whether you’ve got the application frame or not. So I’m having trouble seeing the App Frame as being very much of a solution for the problem you describe.
I don’t buy it. Even with the application frame, you still see your desktop and the Dock with all its colorful icons unless you switch to full-screen mode.
No, the app frame hides all those things behind it. (unless you keep your dock up, but then it’s at the bottom of the screen and out of the way, as opposed to the icons or the contents of other windows which may be sprinkled in between your images otherwise) Full-screen mode doesn’t allow you to view more than one image at a time. Having a neutral grey space in between the images comes in very handy when making relative colour judgements between them, using one image as a colour reference off in the corner while working on your active images, etc.
In CS2, CS and 7, if you hit F to get the gray backdrop, then window, second doc, it floats on top of the gray backdrop (first doc). Two windows, one gray backdrop. CS3 broke this, as far as I can determine.
Interesting, didn’t know about the previous versions behaviour… although you can’t move the grey-ed image into an arrangement of windows. I suppose you could open up a dummy image and just use that for your grey, then select each doc from the window menu to bring it up, but that’s far more cumbersome than the simplicity of the app frame, and would only get worse the more images you have open. Plus, double-clicking on the grey area doesn’t bring up the open dialog, which is quite handy on the windows side.
Is there a drawback to comparing color moves using layers? Option-clicking the background layer visibility icon is a mini-ritual of mine (we Mac lovers have so many). I guess this comes from my days of checking film, but I like the "flipbook" effect. Pros, cons?
Plus, double-clicking on the grey area doesn’t bring up the open dialog, which is quite handy on the windows side.
See, I don’t think I’ve ever opened an image through Photoshop. It’s either Finder, Bridge or IND. Coming from the PC, I think you underestimate the Finder. For me who was raised on Apple/Amiga/Mac, I can’t understand how one would avoid it.
Having returned home over the weekend after six and a half months, I mercifully have access to my Mac again. What a royal pain in the butt Windoze was all this time!
However, I have to point out that the behavior of Photoshop CS3 running under Vista Home Premium is identical to the Macintosh way. You do see the desktop behind and around your Photoshop window(s).
I work with as gray a desktop in windows as I work on my Mac, just plain neutral gray. I wouldn’t want it any other way. I even run the Graphite theme so as not to see the multicolored buttons on any Mac window.
(note, I’ve used macs predominantly for the past 14 years.) It’s not a huge difference. In one case, you have to press a key or click to bring up the finder and double click to open the image. In the other case, you double click on the app frame and double click to open the image, AND photoshop always stays in focus (if you’re working in it, why the need to leave it, even for a moment?). The fact that you may already have your pointer hovering over the app frame, or you may have just closed the document you were working on, leaving you with nothing but app frame under your mouse, makes it easier to simply do a double click to bring up the open dialog, rather than have to move your mouse to target a window or doc, or Exposé hot corner, or reach for a keyboard to bring up a finder window (or other software). It’s a small difference, but it’s all these little advantages that make up the sum experience of user-friendliness.
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