Max Ink Density in PDF output question

JT
Posted By
James_Tsuyuki
Sep 28, 2006
Views
2726
Replies
14
Status
Closed
HI there, any help is greatly appreciated. I have been wrestling with this for quite awhile now.

I’m preparing an ad for print. I am assembling the ad in photoshop CS2, CMYK 300dpi.

In the Spec sheet I received from the Magazine, it contains the following instructions regarding the proof that must be submitted along with the ad.

‘Proofs MUST be created with SWOP Web Offset gains. Publication not responsible for variance between digital file, and any proof not listed above. Proof must be screened at 133 line screen on publication base, color calibration SWOP Standards, Density max 260%-280%. ‘

In a previous ad I did they said that the ink Density was too high, I had attempted to correct this by Choosing Edit>Convert to Profile, picked Custom CMYK and entered 280% in the Total Ink Limit box. This appeared to correct the problem, as when I checked with the eyedropper, all the Total ink densities has gone down to under 280% (where previously they had been closer to 300). It seems though, when I print the ad to Acrobat 7.0 the resulting PDF ends up back at 300% max.

If anyone can point me to where I can adjust this output (either in photoshop or acrobat) I would be greatly appreciative.

thanks,
James

PS Here’s the rest of the spec in case it helps:

Format:
Hi-res PDF files (made ONLY through Acrobat Distiller) No native application files accepted. PDF files MUST be made using Acrobat Distiller 5.0 (preferred) and also 4.0 (3.0 will NOT be accepted)
The Hi-res PDF distilled files must have:
1. All fonts embedded (NO True Type fonts accepted)
2. The correct mode (ie. CMYK or Grayscale). Never RGB or LAB or embedded color profiles.
3. All spot colors MUST be converted to CMYK unless running 1, 2, or 3 color ads. NO file with PMS colors accepted unless pre-ordered.
4. OPI must NEVER be included in the file. (see advanced tab in distiller)
5. Resolution: 300 DPI for all submitted images and files.
6. All ads must have position marks for non-bleed ads and trim and bleed marks for bleed ads. The Following are the ONLY ACCEPTED PROOFS for (4 color ads):
1. Kodak APPROVAL Proof
2. Matchprint DIGITAL H/T Proof
3. Fuji FINALPROOF
Only B/W ads can be submitted with contone proof.

THE CORRECT SIZE PROOF MUST ALWAYS BE GENERATED DIRECTLY FROM THE DISK/FILE YOU SUBMIT.

Proofs MUST be created with SWOP Web Offset gains. Publication not responsible for variance between digital file, and any proof not listed above. Proof must be screened at 133 line screen on publication base, color calibration SWOP Standards, Density max 260%-280%.

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MO
Mike_Ornellas
Sep 28, 2006
Adjust the d-max in the Photoshop file and not in Acrobat. Try and separate the files correctly for the specific output first before doing blind generic conversions to CMYK.
JT
James_Tsuyuki
Sep 28, 2006
‘Adjust the d-max in the Photoshop file and not in Acrobat’

sorry for my ignorance, but where do I find the option to adjust the density max?
AR
alan_ruta
Sep 28, 2006
Just in case its wasn’t clear I think when Mike said "separate the files" he means convert the vile to RGB, adjust your GCR to so the max ink is at the range you need and then convert back to 4c.

I find that photoshop does a good job of this. I’m only writing this because I’ve heard of people editing (channel mix, curves, etc.) to try and lower d-max and I think that is a mistake.

alan
PF
Peter_Figen
Sep 28, 2006
If the pub is insisting on a proof with a dot pattern in it, you’re going to have to find a vendor who is calibrated to SWOP and send that. Unless you’ve got a subject matter that might moiré, the dot proof isn’t really needed, but you will need to check for you max ink density and use Selective Color to fine tune it if needed.
B
Buko
Sep 28, 2006
you should always work in RGB then convert your file to the appropriate CMYK profile as the last step. If you do it this way the finished job will look the same whoever prints the job.

where do I find the option to adjust the density max?

Edit > Color Settings

in the working spaces go to CMYK and choose custom. set your max ink.
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Sep 28, 2006
sorry for my ignorance, but where do I find the option to adjust the density max?

I can send you a script that allows you to perform the correction for a specific TIL.

To edit images in a PDF, you need Acrobat Pro. What you do is hold the option key down while double clicking on the image with the touch up tool arrow. The image will then open in Photoshop. Apply the action, save the image, and the file is up dated in the PDF.

Save the PDF and go on your merry way.

Very simple workflow. Very cool too.
JT
James_Tsuyuki
Sep 28, 2006
Thanks All for the help, I think I finally got it!
JC
Jonathan_Clymer
Sep 29, 2006
Just in case its wasn’t clear I think when Mike said "separate the files" he means convert the vile to RGB, adjust your GCR to so the max ink is at the range you need and then convert back to 4c.

Why not skip RGB and just convert CMYK>CMYK?

Jonathan Clymer
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Sep 29, 2006
because you screw up the black generation.
JC
Jonathan_Clymer
Oct 3, 2006
I have on several occasions satisfactorily repurposed CMYK files by converting directly from CMYK to CMYK … I don’t understand why this screws up the black generation. In fact what I wanted to do was change both the ink limits and the black generation and it isn’t clear to me how a trip to RGB helps.

Just to see if I was missing something I converted an RGB file to CMYK (sheetfed coated v2), back to RGB, and then to CMYK (web uncoated v2). Then I took the CMYK sheetfed file directly to CMYK web and compared the two. There is no signficant difference, including in the black plate. I also did the obverse sequence, from web to sheetfed, with the same result. I picked these two profiles since they are so different from each other and should emphasize discrepancies if there were to be any.

I’m interested to hear how you came to the conclusion that CMYK>CMYK screws up the black generation.

Jonathan Clymer
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Oct 3, 2006
Simply put – single color black objects are rendered into 4 channels with CMYK to CMYK conversions. The same is true for RGB to CMYK conversions, bit if you have layer interaction within the CMYK to CMYK conversions, the blacks are much more affected then if you started out with an RGB to CMYK conversion.

CMYK to CMYK conversions tend to wash out the black plate. Not a lot, but you lose detail in the 1/2 to 3/4 tones.

Try it and see for yourself.
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Oct 3, 2006
First image is RGB to CMYK
2nd is CMYK to CMYK
You are looking at the black plate only.

="http://67.115.154.61/pub/RGB.jpg">

="http://67.115.154.61/pub/CMYK.jpg">
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Oct 3, 2006
See how the CMYK to CMYK conversion flattens out the darker tones?
B
Buko
Oct 5, 2006
Yup!

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