need to match the colours for screen and print
No you don’t!
(well, anyway… you can’t… not 185, not 021, not 877,..) Photoshop’s compromise is your best bet.
I was wondering if Pantone changed their 185 Red color build, or if Photoshop interpretates it differently than the swatch book.
I just figured since I downloaded the latest Pantone colors that Pantone had changed it.
Pantone is in the business of selling color names. The actual color that will result from Pantone’s suggested CMYK build for 185 Red can vary from washed out orange to cherry depending on what you use to put the ink on the paper. The idea that there’s a generically correct set of CMYK numbers for any Pantone color is a cruel joke.
Hey, Bruce, thanx for responding.
So, what are we supposed to go by then? I had a background color that was 185 red and made it a cmyk color. Printed it for proof and noticed it was a warm red instead of the cherry red from a Pantone Swatch book we have from 2001. Being I was working with Photoshop 7 and downloaded new swatch libraries, I just thought they had changed the standard.
But the customer also had an old swatch book and expected the color in it, so I had to color correct this. What is correct proceedure in this case? Should I try to color correct every spot color to the spot to process Pantone book? Or does it continually change and the customer is needed to be notified that the color is off?
How am I supposed to know which to go by, if I don’t know what swatch book they’re looking at?
What are the normal proceedures that you use?
What is correct procedure in this case?
disclaimer.
My best explanation is derived purely from my experience with paints used in my illustration background and is based purely on intuition than color science.
When I need a certain hue I can’t acheive with custom mixes, I have to buy a specific named color of the exact hue I’m looking for. But when I apply it to different surfaces, some being more obsorbant than others, a myriad of hue shifts results to the point the color is unrecognizable from its original name.
Also, when I view this color under indoor and outdoor lighting, shifts are even more apparent. Diluting the paint changes it’s characteristics even more, especially if using solvents as apposed to water. Different brands of the same color name also look different. How long it’s been sitting on the shelf also changes it.
Pantone probably has better control and predictability than in my example, but you still see what they must have to go through in developing and controlling their system of color matching. Not to mention the pigment and obsorption characteristics your proofer throws in the mix. It’s just not going to be perfect.
My advice and what others have suggested is to create your own CMYK mix and name it 185 yourself on an accurately profiled monitor previewed using an accurately made profile of your output device be it a proofer or offset press in Proof Setup.
Explain to your client FedEx and Exxon and other corporations can’t even control with exact precision the CMYK mixes of their custom logo colors even off the same press, why should he.
It wasn’t a big deal to drop down the yellow to match the old swatch. But, the color shift was so drastic. From pink to orange. I am in Prepress and was not the designer, so I wasn’t sure which color to match. Time to get out the crysal ball.
Disclaimer is rule #1. Many solid Pantone colors can’t be matched with a CMYK build.
Second is to know what to match, and the most reliable tool is that oft-overlooked color management instrument, the phone (it tends to be a great deal more reliable than the crystal ball).
Third is to know where the job is being printed and what combination of C, M, Y, and K will actually come close to simulating the spot color. Most printers have their own formula for CMYK matches to Pantone solids.
Well then we are flying blind on this one, Bruce. My company is the printer, I work in prepress. Yes, our printers do match spot colors. But, if a file comes in as a spot color and is supposed to be a cmyk job, the prepress department is the one that has to know the conversion.
So, I’m looking for opinions. Would you go with the Pantone spot color match color or would you go with Photoshop’s new conversion of the color?
I know the answer is to get a new swatch color book, but this is the first time this has come up.
Yes, the phone is wonderful if you are allowed to talk with the customer. In general we are not. But, I did get to talk with this particular customer that was unhappy with the proof I sent out. He wanted it to match an old swatch book. I dropped down the yellow and matched the CMYK conversion of the spot color. We sent out a press proof and they liked it.
Does anyone have a 2004 Pantone Spot to CMYK book that can be compared to an older Pantone book? Is it a warmer red, or is it the same?
But, I am correct in assuming this is Pantone’s problem and not Photoshop’s, right?
It’s your print shop’s problem.
Many shops have their own swatch books printed on their presses, with their inks on paper they are most likely asked to use.
Those swatch books match a small percentage of the solid Pantone colors.
Most printers have their own formula for CMYK matches to Pantone solids.
or so they think so.
I think I’ve confused things here. Let me start over.
I work for the print shop in the prepress dept. A customer sent me a file that was a Photoshop .eps but it was really a .dcs with spot channels.
Thanx from some help on this forum last week, I was able to make the file CMYK. One channel was 185 Red and the other Black. When Photoshop converted the 185 red, it turned an orange shade. My old Pantone Swatch book had a different conversion.
I just figured that Pantone had changed their cmyk conversion of the spot color, since I recently updated the new Pantone swatches. I have an old 2001 Pantone swatch book, which has the 185 as a more pink color.
I did not know what the customer intended for the color, since most people print out from personal deskjets or whatever. So I trusted Photoshop’s new conversion.
The customer complained (which in the back of my head I knew it was coming). But I told our customer service dept. that I needed to talk with him to see which color he was looking for.
He was a very friendly man and I found out he was looking at a swatch book probably as old as mine, but he wanted that color. Which was no problem, I dropped down the yellow.
My question is does anyone have a 2004 color swatch book? What is the color break down for cmyk in 185c?
Do I trust Photoshop’s new conversion, or do we have to ask every customer that uses spot colors for cmyk jobs which swatch book are they looking at to see what color is intended?
As I said, this is the first time this has come up for us and I told the customer Pantone changed their color mix.
What is your opinion?
So do the digital swatch books distributed by Pantone contain good device-independant color definitions?
Dee,
I don’t have a Pantone Spot to CMYK swatchbook, just an old 1989 747XR formula guide kept well preserved and rarely used. Yours and your clients pinkish description seem in line with mine and seems to be a common red color, not orange.
My formula mix is 12 parts Warm Red and 4 parts Rubine Red and resembles under D50 fluorescent lights "Stop Sign" red but in PS 7 it more resembles the Gretag Macbeth color chart red patch but with much less yellow and about 5% cyan which seems to agree with Ai’s mix. I know it shouldn’t look like orange.
My swatch will turn orange when viewed under GE 100 watt soft white D30 lighting.
Hope this helps.
Albert, this might help you out as well. I posted this question in the Illustrator forum also.
Inez Henson-Smith "My weird question for the weekend…" 6/12/04 9:03pm </cgi-bin/webx?13/0>
