Restoring color snapshots

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:25:13 GMT, Tony Cooper
wrote:

I’ve done some fairly good restorations of really old photographs, but color snapshot prints from the 60s and 70s are different. They’re faded and have that yellowish cast.

I’ve been using Curves and laboriously dicking around with each one, but I have a large project.

Any suggestions on how to go about this?

I should have mentioned that I scan the prints, so scanning settings would be included in my question.
—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

I’ve done some fairly good restorations of really old photographs, but color snapshot prints from the 60s and 70s are different. They’re faded and have that yellowish cast.

I’ve been using Curves and laboriously dicking around with each one, but I have a large project.

Any suggestions on how to go about this?

The best color space for this is Lab. Make the a and b channels steeper to increase the color, and move the endpoints (usually the magenta end of the a curve) to compensate for the loss of magenta associated with faded prints. Then use the lightness curve to punch up the contrast.

If all of your images are more or less equally faded, select an image with a well-known neutral object such as a white shirt, concrete sidewalk, thick clouds, etc as this provides a good reference for Photoshop’s eyedropper sample – the a and b channels should be zero for a neutral. Save the resulting curve as a starting point for your other images.

I’ll be putting up a challenge image at the curvemeister site in the next several days and you’ll be able to see how others deal with this issue. —

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

I’ve done some fairly good restorations of really old photographs, but color snapshot prints from the 60s and 70s are different. They’re faded and have that yellowish cast.

I’ve been using Curves and laboriously dicking around with each one, but I have a large project.

Any suggestions on how to go about this?
—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

I suggest you join http://www.flickr.com/groups/90604013@N00/ and post one of the images, the participants specialise in this sort of think and will do their uppermost to find the best solution!

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 19:13:26 GMT, "Mike Russell" wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

I’ve done some fairly good restorations of really old photographs, but color snapshot prints from the 60s and 70s are different. They’re faded and have that yellowish cast.

I’ve been using Curves and laboriously dicking around with each one, but I have a large project.

Any suggestions on how to go about this?

The best color space for this is Lab. Make the a and b channels steeper to increase the color, and move the endpoints (usually the magenta end of the a curve) to compensate for the loss of magenta associated with faded prints. Then use the lightness curve to punch up the contrast.

If all of your images are more or less equally faded, select an image with a well-known neutral object such as a white shirt, concrete sidewalk, thick clouds, etc as this provides a good reference for Photoshop’s eyedropper sample – the a and b channels should be zero for a neutral. Save the resulting curve as a starting point for your other images.
I’ll be putting up a challenge image at the curvemeister site in the next several days and you’ll be able to see how others deal with this issue.

I put up a scan of four old prints from the late 60s/early 70s as an example at http://home.earthlink.net/~tony_cooper213/oldpix.jpg The scans are unaltered, and just as they came off the scanner. They were scanned at 300 ppi on a rather old (as computer equipment goes) Microtek Scanmaster 4800 flatbed.

I would not work on them as a group, but I wanted to give a representative sample of the problem.

I’ll post them to the flickr group later.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 19:20:54 -0000, "Harry Limey" <harrylimey(at)Lycos.co.uk> wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

I’ve done some fairly good restorations of really old photographs, but color snapshot prints from the 60s and 70s are different. They’re faded and have that yellowish cast.

I’ve been using Curves and laboriously dicking around with each one, but I have a large project.

Any suggestions on how to go about this?
—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

I suggest you join http://www.flickr.com/groups/90604013@N00/ and post one of the images, the participants specialise in this sort of think and will do their uppermost to find the best solution!

I posted the scan there, but what goes on. If there are comments or suggestions, how do I see/get them?

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

I posted the scan there, but what goes on. If there are comments or suggestions, how do I see/get them?

I checked for your photos there and no new threads have been posted!! I don’t know if you have used Flickr before but it can be a little difficult for the first time user!!
You need to open an account, and then upload your images (individually) having done that you then have to join whichever group you are interested in (there are hundreds of thousands) in this case Photo Restoration & Colorization Group
Then you can start a new topic (you will need to open one or more of your uploaded pictures, click on the ‘all sizes’ link above the picture – then select a suitable medium size image and copy the html link under the image (not the url) then paste the html into the message field for a new topic, and state your objective – if you mess it up – no problem someone will tell you where you have gone wrong – most people have problems the first time!!!!

About the images – I tried all four and got reasonable results on three of them just with curves!! but I cannot see a way to automate this as the images seem to vary quite a bit!
Which of course is what you asked for!
The links are
http://static.flickr.com/6/69491960_8da283d134.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/6/69491962_5b4d313048.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/20/69491964_1da3c9042e.jpg

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 23:37:41 -0000, "Harry Limey" <harrylimey(at)Lycos.co.uk> wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

I posted the scan there, but what goes on. If there are comments or suggestions, how do I see/get them?

I checked for your photos there and no new threads have been posted!! I don’t know if you have used Flickr before but it can be a little difficult for the first time user!!
You need to open an account, and then upload your images (individually) having done that you then have to join whichever group you are interested in (there are hundreds of thousands) in this case Photo Restoration & Colorization Group
Then you can start a new topic (you will need to open one or more of your uploaded pictures, click on the ‘all sizes’ link above the picture – then select a suitable medium size image and copy the html link under the image (not the url) then paste the html into the message field for a new topic, and state your objective – if you mess it up – no problem someone will tell you where you have gone wrong – most people have problems the first time!!!!
About the images – I tried all four and got reasonable results on three of them just with curves!! but I cannot see a way to automate this as the images seem to vary quite a bit!
Which of course is what you asked for!
The links are
http://static.flickr.com/6/69491960_8da283d134.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/6/69491962_5b4d313048.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/20/69491964_1da3c9042e.jpg

OK…I thought I knew how to use Curves, but – obviously – I don’t. I worked on just the top one (above) in Curves and didn’t come close to what you have. Pointers on how you did this appreciated. In here or in email to

I don’t mind you doing it in here if you think the rest of the group would benefit.

It’s not an action that I’m looking for, BTW. Just some steps to apply.
—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

Pointers on how you did this appreciated.

Tony
I replied via the Flickr group as I am hoping some of them will participate!!

"Tony Cooper" wrote
[re faded photos]

I put up a scan of four old prints from the late 60s/early 70s as an example at http://home.earthlink.net/~tony_cooper213/oldpix.jpg The scans are unaltered, and just as they came off the scanner. They were scanned at 300 ppi on a rather old (as computer equipment goes) Microtek Scanmaster 4800 flatbed.

I gave these a shot in Photoshop. Although I used Curvemeister, all of the operations can be done in Photoshop full version after converting to Lab mode.

http://mike.russell-home.net/tmp/Restore%204Up/index.htm —

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 01:19:02 GMT, "Mike Russell" wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote
[re faded photos]

I put up a scan of four old prints from the late 60s/early 70s as an example at http://home.earthlink.net/~tony_cooper213/oldpix.jpg The scans are unaltered, and just as they came off the scanner. They were scanned at 300 ppi on a rather old (as computer equipment goes) Microtek Scanmaster 4800 flatbed.

I gave these a shot in Photoshop. Although I used Curvemeister, all of the operations can be done in Photoshop full version after converting to Lab mode.

http://mike.russell-home.net/tmp/Restore%204Up/index.htm

I’ve bookmarked the page, and will work with it later. Too many other things going on at the moment.

I wanted to acknowledge the post, and thank you for it, since it’s the first one that addresses the question with actual suggestions and steps.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
scribbled:

See attached.

Dear Fuckwit,

The word ‘binaries’ appears no where in this group’s name. This is because it is not a binaries group.

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

I prefer to use the combination of level, color balance, contrast and brightness and selective color. Some time hue and saturation and use curves only on mismatch contrast. See attached.

I use Agent as a newsreader, and it does not open attachments. Thanks for the thought, but I can only see an image or file that you post if it’s a link to a url.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

HEY MAN, what’s this about and your offensive language??!!

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
scribbled:

See attached.

Dear Fuckwit,

The word ‘binaries’ appears no where in this group’s name. This is because it is not a binaries group.

Sorry. I got no problem with outlook express.
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~kcpps/images/oldpic.jpg

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

I prefer to use the combination of level, color balance, contrast and brightness and selective color. Some time hue and saturation and use curves
only on mismatch contrast. See attached.

I use Agent as a newsreader, and it does not open attachments. Thanks for the thought, but I can only see an image or file that you post if it’s a link to a url.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:19:15 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

Sorry. I got no problem with outlook express.
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~kcpps/images/oldpic.jpg

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

I prefer to use the combination of level, color balance, contrast and brightness and selective color. Some time hue and saturation and use curves
only on mismatch contrast. See attached.

I use Agent as a newsreader, and it does not open attachments. Thanks for the thought, but I can only see an image or file that you post if it’s a link to a url.

There have been several very attempts at restoring these pictures. I’ve come pretty close myself using Curves and the contrast setting.

What I was really hoping for – and I think others might benefit from it – is more along the line of "how I did this" rather than "what I did".

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

What I was really hoping for – and I think others might benefit from it – is more along the line of "how I did this" rather than "what I did".

I did actually put a step by step account of my method of using curves on Flickr!!

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

I prefer to use the combination of level, color balance, contrast and brightness and selective color. Some time hue and saturation and use

curves

only on mismatch contrast. See attached.

I use Agent as a newsreader, and it does not open attachments. Thanks for the thought, but I can only see an image or file that you post if it’s a link to a url.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

I use more modern technology and I must say, you did a good job on those corrections.
You should, however, take voivods advice.

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:13:07 -0000, "Harry Limey" <harrylimey(at)Lycos.co.uk> wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

What I was really hoping for – and I think others might benefit from it – is more along the line of "how I did this" rather than "what I did".

I did actually put a step by step account of my method of using curves on Flickr!!

I only went as far as an MBA. I’m not smart enough to negotiate that Flickr site. When I bring it up, there’s a comment from "occedid" and a reply from me. That’s all.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13481505@N00/69458847/

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:27:23 -0500, "Scruff" wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

I prefer to use the combination of level, color balance, contrast and brightness and selective color. Some time hue and saturation and use

curves

only on mismatch contrast. See attached.

I use Agent as a newsreader, and it does not open attachments. Thanks for the thought, but I can only see an image or file that you post if it’s a link to a url.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

I use more modern technology and I must say, you did a good job on those corrections.
You should, however, take voivods advice.

I not sure what advice you’re referring to, but if it’s from Voided, either it’s (a) anatomically impossible, or (b) what he wants me to put where wouldn’t fit.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:13:53 GMT, Tony Cooper
scribbled:

I’m not smart

No need to state the obvious.

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 02:45:32 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

HEY MAN, what’s this about and your offensive language??!!

(snipped offensive post)

He may have been overtly offensive, but you were not without guilt, as you have posted a binary in a text newsgroup. Doutbless it was ignorance, but it does cause some of us to react.

You can post binaries to any group (there are several, so try to pick an appropriate one) with binaries in the name of the group, giving the subject line of the attachment and the name of the binary group here, or you can post it on a Web page and give an URL for it. Latter is preferable, as many binary groups are kept for very short times on some servers.

If you like your service provider and want to keep using it, it’s wise not to do things like post binaries to text newsgroups. The other caveat of doing so is that some news servers will not propagate large posts put in text newsgroups, so many people may never see your post.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: (strip the .invalid to email)

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 02:45:32 +0800, "kctan"
scribbled:

HEY MAN, what’s this about and your offensive language??!!

Stop top posting like a complete n00b, shitwit.

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
scribbled:

See attached.

Dear Fuckwit,

The word ‘binaries’ appears no where in this group’s name. This is because it is not a binaries group.

Thanks for your advice. I don’t understand your cultures but I thought this is a place for us to learn from each other and definitely don’t expect foul-mouthed people like voivods.

"Scruff" wrote in message

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

I prefer to use the combination of level, color balance, contrast and brightness and selective color. Some time hue and saturation and use

curves

only on mismatch contrast. See attached.

I use Agent as a newsreader, and it does not open attachments. Thanks for the thought, but I can only see an image or file that you post if it’s a link to a url.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

I use more modern technology and I must say, you did a good job on those corrections.
You should, however, take voivods advice.

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

I only went as far as an MBA. I’m not smart enough to negotiate that Flickr site. When I bring it up, there’s a comment from "occedid" and a reply from me. That’s all.

Hi Tony
I put my reply on this link for what its worth!!
http://www.flickr.com/groups/90604013@N00/discuss/131764/

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:39:36 -0000, "Harry Limey" <harrylimey(at)Lycos.co.uk> wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

I only went as far as an MBA. I’m not smart enough to negotiate that Flickr site. When I bring it up, there’s a comment from "occedid" and a reply from me. That’s all.

Hi Tony
I put my reply on this link for what its worth!!
http://www.flickr.com/groups/90604013@N00/discuss/131764/

Thanks, Harry. I’ve learned a lot about Curves in this quest. The "lady", of course, is my wife. The moppet is my daughter who, luckily, grew up to be a great deal more attractive than she looks on my wife’s shoulder in that picture. The top two pictures were taken at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago.

The pictures were not selected as good examples of photography or composition, but as examples of faded images and exercises in restoration.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

The pictures were not selected as good examples of photography or composition, but as examples of faded images and exercises in restoration.

I appreciate that Tony, none the less they are quite charming images and I can understand fully why you would wish to restore them.

"kctan" wrote in message

Thanks for your advice. I don’t understand your cultures but I thought this is a place for us to learn from each other and definitely don’t expect foul-mouthed people like voivods.

As the years pass, the value of this forum, unfortunately, has been decreasing due to abusive conduct such as you are discussing. Some of the worst offenders of years past, including Mike C, seem genteel compared to what is happening here today. In spite of this, there are enough good people participating here to make it worth sorting through the chaff.

Usenet being what it is, the abusive behavior will never stop. It’s necessary to get over it and ignore poor behavior to benefit from this group. As a regular on this group, I get attacked and insulted routinely by people who have no interest in Photoshop knowledge. I never notice because I make generous use of "Block sender" and "Ignore Conversation". If any flames do get through, I ignore them almost without reading them.

But Usenet flames continue because so many people react strongly to personal attacks and insults, and cannot resist replying to them in kind. Good people have simply been driven away.

Fortunately, there are protected forums such as the delightful www.flickr.com, www.myjanee.com, and the various groups at www.groups.yahoo.com . Curvemeister and Photoshop Elements have yahoo groups. There you will find supportive and knowledgeable people who have absolutely no interest in ruining your day.

BTW – Adobe supports a large number of moderated forums. Although somewhat better than this group they are more flame-ridden than the other groups that I mentioned.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:24:57 GMT, "Mike Russell" scribbled:

"kctan" wrote in message

Thanks for your advice. I don’t understand your cultures but I thought this is a place for us to learn from each other and definitely don’t expect foul-mouthed people like voivods.

As the years pass, the value of this forum, unfortunately, has been decreasing due to abusive conduct such as you are discussing. Some of the worst offenders of years past, including Mike C, seem genteel compared to what is happening here today. In spite of this, there are enough good people participating here to make it worth sorting through the chaff.
Usenet being what it is, the abusive behavior will never stop. It’s necessary to get over it and ignore poor behavior to benefit from this group. As a regular on this group, I get attacked and insulted routinely by people who have no interest in Photoshop knowledge. I never notice because I make generous use of "Block sender" and "Ignore Conversation". If any flames do get through, I ignore them almost without reading them.
But Usenet flames continue because so many people react strongly to personal attacks and insults, and cannot resist replying to them in kind. Good people have simply been driven away.

Fortunately, there are protected forums such as the delightful www.flickr.com, www.myjanee.com, and the various groups at www.groups.yahoo.com . Curvemeister and Photoshop Elements have yahoo groups. There you will find supportive and knowledgeable people who have absolutely no interest in ruining your day.

BTW – Adobe supports a large number of moderated forums. Although somewhat better than this group they are more flame-ridden than the other groups that I mentioned.

Would you like a tissue, cry baby?

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:27:23 -0500, "Scruff" wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

I prefer to use the combination of level, color balance, contrast and brightness and selective color. Some time hue and saturation and use

curves

only on mismatch contrast. See attached.

I use Agent as a newsreader, and it does not open attachments. Thanks for the thought, but I can only see an image or file that you post if it’s a link to a url.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

I use more modern technology and I must say, you did a good job on those corrections.
You should, however, take voivods advice.

I not sure what advice you’re referring to, but if it’s from Voided, either it’s (a) anatomically impossible, or (b) what he wants me to put where wouldn’t fit.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

The part about not posting binaries here.

"kctan" wrote in message

Thanks for your advice. I don’t understand your cultures but I thought

this

is a place for us to learn from each other ……….

Good place to learn, bad place to post binaries.

in article ZiJlf.36669$, Mike Russell at
wrote on 12/07/2005 2:24 PM:

But Usenet flames continue because so many people react strongly to personal attacks and insults, and cannot resist replying to them in kind.

And who’s to blame for people not being able to control themselves?

Me?

":^) ®

Mike
Site at: http://www.artistmike.com
Certificate Design at: http://www.artistmike.com/CertificateDesigns/1.html Logos at: http://www.artistmike.com/NewLogos2002/Logos2002.08a.html

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 20:29:00 -0500, "Scruff" wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:27:23 -0500, "Scruff" wrote:

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:20:35 +0800, "kctan"
wrote:

I prefer to use the combination of level, color balance, contrast and brightness and selective color. Some time hue and saturation and use

curves

only on mismatch contrast. See attached.

I use Agent as a newsreader, and it does not open attachments. Thanks for the thought, but I can only see an image or file that you post if it’s a link to a url.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

I use more modern technology and I must say, you did a good job on those corrections.
You should, however, take voivods advice.

I not sure what advice you’re referring to, but if it’s from Voided, either it’s (a) anatomically impossible, or (b) what he wants me to put where wouldn’t fit.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

The part about not posting binaries here.

I didn’t post a binary here. I’ve never posted a binary anywhere.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Scruff wrote:

The part about not posting binaries here.

Then Tony wrote:

I didn’t post a binary here. I’ve never
posted a binary anywhere.
—
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Tony,

Relax. Scruff was responding to somebody else in reference to the binaries.

I appreciate your original post and the good answers you got. I learned from them as well.

Cheers Lee O.

Thank you Mike. I’ll ignore such people like you have been doing 🙂

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

"kctan" wrote in message

Thanks for your advice. I don’t understand your cultures but I thought this is a place for us to learn from each other and definitely don’t expect foul-mouthed people like voivods.

As the years pass, the value of this forum, unfortunately, has been decreasing due to abusive conduct such as you are discussing. Some of the worst offenders of years past, including Mike C, seem genteel compared to what is happening here today. In spite of this, there are enough good people participating here to make it worth sorting through the chaff.
Usenet being what it is, the abusive behavior will never stop. It’s necessary to get over it and ignore poor behavior to benefit from this group. As a regular on this group, I get attacked and insulted routinely by people who have no interest in Photoshop knowledge. I never notice because I make generous use of "Block sender" and "Ignore Conversation". If any flames do get through, I ignore them almost without reading them.
But Usenet flames continue because so many people react strongly to personal attacks and insults, and cannot resist replying to them in kind. Good people have simply been driven away.

Fortunately, there are protected forums such as the delightful www.flickr.com, www.myjanee.com, and the various groups at www.groups.yahoo.com . Curvemeister and Photoshop Elements have yahoo groups. There you will find supportive and knowledgeable people who have absolutely no interest in ruining your day.

BTW – Adobe supports a large number of moderated forums. Although somewhat better than this group they are more flame-ridden than the other groups that I mentioned.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

"mike" wrote in message news:BFBCD325.5D162%

And who’s to blame for people not being able to control themselves?
Me?

":^)

Mike Russell wrote:

"kctan" wrote in message

Hi Mike,

IMHO, this group has a proven use that no one can deny. Offenders will exist anywhere. Moderated groups are good, but they lack the speed,
i.e. the message should be reviewed by the moderator who will have the
authority to remove it, or keep it. The problem of the moderated newsgroup is that removing a message will sometimes depend on the moderator’s mood (and time). There are many examples of good PS forums such as Adobeforums, Myjanee, Retouchpro and Curvemeister group at Yahoo. But you have to confess that popularity of Google groups (some of which are moderated) can defeat any other popularity due to the astronomical support. I can understand your fears that nonsense can easily be posted to this ng, and be archived as if it is a valuable history.

Mohamed Al-Dabbagh
Senior Graphic Designer

In article <ZiJlf.36669$>,
"Mike Russell" wrote:

As the years pass, the value of this forum, unfortunately, has been decreasing due to abusive conduct such as you are discussing. Some of the worst offenders of years past, including Mike C, seem genteel compared to what is happening here today. In spite of this, there are enough good people participating here to make it worth sorting through the chaff.

Fortunately, most newsreaders have killfiles. 🙂

The abusers end up in my killfile quickly, and I never see anything they write any more.

—
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

"tacit" wrote in message

In article <ZiJlf.36669$>,
"Mike Russell" wrote:

As the years pass, the value of this forum, unfortunately, has been decreasing due to abusive conduct such as you are discussing. Some of

the

worst offenders of years past, including Mike C, seem genteel compared

to

what is happening here today. In spite of this, there are enough good people participating here to make it worth sorting through the chaff.

Fortunately, most newsreaders have killfiles. 🙂

The abusers end up in my killfile quickly, and I never see anything they write any more.

—
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

I’m here because I am collecting all of the great tips and am going to put out a
book on PS tips that can be actually understood.

in article UsTlf.28045$, Mike Russell at
wrote on 12/08/2005 1:58 AM:

"mike" wrote in message news:BFBCD325.5D162%

And who’s to blame for people not being able to control themselves?
Me?

":^) ®

The tormentor is always to blame for the reactions of his victim

How "tormented" someone feels in a newsgroup is totally up to them. How much of a "victim" they feel like is also totally up to them.

It’s only words on the screen and the each reader decides for himself on the value of those words.

Mike
Site at: http://www.artistmike.com
Certificate Design at: http://www.artistmike.com/CertificateDesigns/1.html Logos at: http://www.artistmike.com/NewLogos2002/Logos2002.08a.html

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:15:13 -0800, mike wrote:

It’s only words on the screen and the each reader decides for himself on the value of those words.

Yes. Especially when it comes from some one who jabbers on like an idiot. This means of communication gives the average testosterone demented nut sufficient anonymity to allow it to vent its frustration without the fear of being nutted around the school playground. Quite a number of those posting here are so full of torture and are held in such low esteem by their peers that the only way they can relate to others is to dish out pain. I agree whole heartedly with the above sentence.

Now see you have a nice day.

Regards.

Colin.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 14:05:21 -0500, "Scruff" wrote:

I’m here because I am collecting all of the great tips and am going to put out a book on PS tips that can be actually understood.

Are you taking English lessons, or are writing it in an another language??

Colin.

PS

Give us all author name and title. Please.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 14:05:21 -0500, "Scruff" scribbled:

"tacit" wrote in message

In article <ZiJlf.36669$>,
"Mike Russell" wrote:

As the years pass, the value of this forum, unfortunately, has been decreasing due to abusive conduct such as you are discussing. Some of

the

worst offenders of years past, including Mike C, seem genteel compared

to

what is happening here today. In spite of this, there are enough good people participating here to make it worth sorting through the chaff.

Fortunately, most newsreaders have killfiles. 🙂

The abusers end up in my killfile quickly, and I never see anything they write any more.

—
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

I’m here because I am collecting all of the great tips and am going to put out a
book on PS tips that can be actually understood.

And you’re ready to be sued by everyone who can prove with a datestamp on Google that you plagerized their advice?

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 14:05:21 -0500, "Scruff" scribbled:

"tacit" wrote in message

In article <ZiJlf.36669$>,
"Mike Russell" wrote:

As the years pass, the value of this forum, unfortunately, has been decreasing due to abusive conduct such as you are discussing. Some

of

the

worst offenders of years past, including Mike C, seem genteel

compared

to

what is happening here today. In spite of this, there are enough

good

people participating here to make it worth sorting through the chaff.

Fortunately, most newsreaders have killfiles. 🙂

The abusers end up in my killfile quickly, and I never see anything

they

write any more.

—
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

I’m here because I am collecting all of the great tips and am going to

put

out a
book on PS tips that can be actually understood.

And you’re ready to be sued by everyone who can prove with a datestamp on Google that you plagerized their advice?

From their posts on Usenet? I think not. Checked it out, all legal. I won’t be using names or copyrighted items.
Just the stuff from here that so many explain so well.
In fact, I’ll be using a lot of your stuff. I’ve been collecting for quite a while now.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:08:32 -0500, "Scruff" scribbled:

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 14:05:21 -0500, "Scruff" scribbled:

"tacit" wrote in message

In article <ZiJlf.36669$>,
"Mike Russell" wrote:

As the years pass, the value of this forum, unfortunately, has been decreasing due to abusive conduct such as you are discussing. Some

of

the

worst offenders of years past, including Mike C, seem genteel

compared

to

what is happening here today. In spite of this, there are enough

good

people participating here to make it worth sorting through the chaff.

Fortunately, most newsreaders have killfiles. 🙂

The abusers end up in my killfile quickly, and I never see anything

they

write any more.

—
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

I’m here because I am collecting all of the great tips and am going to

put

out a
book on PS tips that can be actually understood.

And you’re ready to be sued by everyone who can prove with a datestamp on Google that you plagerized their advice?

From their posts on Usenet? I think not. Checked it out, all legal. I won’t be using names or copyrighted items.
Just the stuff from here that so many explain so well.
In fact, I’ll be using a lot of your stuff. I’ve been collecting for quite a while now.

See ya in court!

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:08:32 -0500, "Scruff" wrote: in reply to Voided:

In fact, I’ll be using a lot of your stuff. I’ve been collecting for quite a while now.

Usually a "book" has more than two pages.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

"Tony Cooper" wrote in message

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:08:32 -0500, "Scruff" wrote: in reply to Voided:

In fact, I’ll be using a lot of your stuff. I’ve been collecting for

quite a

while now.

Usually a "book" has more than two pages.
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Ouch!