Workflow & Colorspace (long)

M
Posted By
Mikey
Oct 8, 2005
Views
315
Replies
4
Status
Closed
Hi all. It’s the never-ending workflow issue. I’ll try to keep it terse. My questions are about proper use of Photoshop and weeding out any problems.

I’m using photos from various sources (some of them really crappy) and adding them to a template in Photoshop (v7, sorry). Think ‘CD jacket cover’ and it’s essentially the same thing. A couple photos in a box with some text.

The results are printed on (primarily) a crappy Epson C64 (which is not doing too bad, given that the photos are fairly small and thus the problems are often too small to be seen!) Epson supplies a Colorstink profile and I’m using Colorstink matching in the output (that’s given me the best results so far).

I was convinced some time ago to use BruceRGB for a working space; you can probably guess which articles and stuff I read.

My Photoshop setup is like so:
Working RGB – BruceRGB
Working CMYK – ColorSync CMYK
Management RGB – Convert to Working RGB
Management CMYK – Convert to Working CMYK
Conversion – Apple ColorSync
Intent – Relative Colorimetric
w/Black point & dither

So, my template is in BruceRGB. I find images (in whatever tagged or untagged state they may be in) and drag ’em in. I correct them as best as possible, and use Print Preview to print them out, using ColorSync. The output profile is the printer’s (Epson’s) generic profile for the printer. The results are pretty decent.

My Proofing setup is set to Working CMYK, and viewing as a proof usually approximates the output I get; shifts in reds and purples are particularly accurate. So unless I’m totally confused, this seems like a good workflow. Opinions wanted.

Now here’s where I get into trouble. After editing the photos for use, I save them in case I use them again. Because they’ve been stuck into the template, they’re now in BruceRGB, the working space. I’m not so sure that’s the right thing to do with them. I’m a little confused as to what will (or won’t happen) when I stick them into another BruceRGB template. Moreover, I’m starting to feel the weight of sRGB and Adobe RGB advocates. What to do?
MR
Mike Russell
Oct 8, 2005
"Mikey" wrote in message
Hi all. It’s the never-ending workflow issue. I’ll try to keep it terse. My questions are about proper use of Photoshop and weeding out any problems.

I’m using photos from various sources (some of them really crappy) and adding them to a template in Photoshop (v7, sorry). Think ‘CD jacket cover’ and it’s essentially the same thing. A couple photos in a box with some text.

The results are printed on (primarily) a crappy Epson C64 (which is not doing too bad, given that the photos are fairly small and thus the problems are often too small to be seen!) Epson supplies a Colorstink profile and I’m using Colorstink matching in the output (that’s given me the best results so far).

I was convinced some time ago to use BruceRGB for a working space; you can probably guess which articles and stuff I read.

Yes, and that you stopped reading new material about two years ago, when Bruce Fraser began advocating ProPhoto RGB 🙂

My Photoshop setup is like so:
Working RGB – BruceRGB
Working CMYK – ColorSync CMYK
Management RGB – Convert to Working RGB
Management CMYK – Convert to Working CMYK
Conversion – Apple ColorSync
Intent – Relative Colorimetric
w/Black point & dither

So, my template is in BruceRGB. I find images (in whatever tagged or untagged state they may be in) and drag ’em in. I correct them as best as possible, and use Print Preview to print them out, using ColorSync. The output profile is the printer’s (Epson’s) generic profile for the printer. The results are pretty decent.

My Proofing setup is set to Working CMYK, and viewing as a proof usually approximates the output I get; shifts in reds and purples are particularly accurate. So unless I’m totally confused, this seems like a good workflow. Opinions wanted.

Now here’s where I get into trouble. After editing the photos for use, I save them in case I use them again. Because they’ve been stuck into the template, they’re now in BruceRGB, the working space. I’m not so sure that’s the right thing to do with them. I’m a little confused as to what will (or won’t happen) when I stick them into another BruceRGB template. Moreover, I’m starting to feel the weight of sRGB and Adobe RGB advocates. What to do?

If your results are good, that speaks for itself, doesn’t it? Frankly I would stay with Bruce RGB, perhaps doing one job in Adobe or sRGB, and see how they compare. There is no great benefit, or penalty, with picking one color space over the other

I don’t advocate ProPhoto RGB, which is an extremely wide gamut space and hence difficult to adjust in. If you experiment with that color space, again, trust your own results over anything you hear from others.

One heads-up: if you share your rgb images with others, I recommend sending an sRGB image, since the colors will be dull if an Adobe or Bruce RGB image is interpreted incorrectly downstream.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
M
Mikey
Oct 9, 2005

Yes, and that you stopped reading new material about two years ago, when Bruce Fraser began advocating ProPhoto RGB 🙂

You are correct sir! I

If your results are good, that speaks for itself, doesn’t it? Frankly I would stay with Bruce RGB, perhaps doing one job in Adobe or sRGB, and see how they compare. There is no great benefit, or penalty, with picking one color space over the other

Super. So I’m like..validated. I was concerned I was doing something wrong, perhaps since I’m two
years out-of-touch (like my version of Pshop).

I don’t advocate ProPhoto RGB, which is an extremely wide gamut space and hence difficult to adjust in. If you experiment with that color space, again, trust your own results over anything you hear from others.
One heads-up: if you share your rgb images with others, I recommend sending an sRGB image, since the colors will be dull if an Adobe or Bruce RGB image is interpreted incorrectly downstream.

Okay thanks I really appreciate it.
B
bmoag
Oct 10, 2005
For your uses and printer AdobeRGB and sRGB are wider than the gamut of your printer. Such is the case for virtually everyone who outputs to an inkjet and the rest is beyond rational argument to the convinced and unconvinced. This includes many of the arguments that center on 8bit vs 16bit color which ignore the realities of printer gamut and software conversion of 16 to 8 bit printer color.

I cannot understand why you have such a convoluted workflow for such a simple task. All of this seems overkill for homebrewed CD covers.

I may have missed it but it does not appear that you calibrate your monitor with an external device. Without a calibrated monitor the first and most vital step, trying to faithfully convert what you see on your monitor to what comes out of your printer becomes something of a crapshoot and it gets even worse when you start converting between color spaces. There is no color management without monitor calibration using an external device and not the Adobe applet.

After that I would keep everything in AdobeRGB. When you bring an image in to your composite masterpiece convert it to AdobeRGB and create your masterpiece in AdobeRGB. When you print you can use the canned Epson profiles for whatever paper you use, as they are pretty good. Alternatively some reasonably priced external calibrators, like the Monaco Optix system, allow for a simple and reasonably reliable way of creating your own paper/printer profiles. If you do it this way there are three color spaces, monitor/AdobeRGB/printer-paper, and they should all interconvert as seamlessly as possible if you do it right.
M
Mikey
Oct 10, 2005
After that I would keep everything in AdobeRGB. When you bring an image in to your composite masterpiece convert it to AdobeRGB and create your masterpiece in AdobeRGB. When you print you can use the canned Epson profiles for whatever paper you use, as they are pretty good. Alternatively some reasonably priced external calibrators, like the Monaco Optix system, allow for a simple and reasonably reliable way of creating your own paper/printer profiles. If you do it this way there are three color spaces, monitor/AdobeRGB/printer-paper, and they should all interconvert as seamlessly as possible if you do it right.

Yeah, so AdobeRGB for the working space? I can handle that.

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