Jpeg settings, defaults, when saving and quality issues

SD
Posted By
Stu_D
Nov 20, 2003
Views
480
Replies
7
Status
Closed
Many people, including experts, have told me that EVERY saving to a jpeg adds loss of quality, even adding IPTC info, etc. There is so much misinformation about this, I’d like to ask those who really know the details about jpeg algorithms and how they work.

From what I have researched and tested,if there is a small change or no change in the image (say you added IPTC info)there is little or no degradation. If one saves at the same setting. It seems that saving to a higher setting may actually DEGRADE the image. For example, if I save a file at a 7 setting, open it up, and save it again at 7, there is no additional jpegging, and the quality is retained. If however, I set it to 12, the file balloons to about 300% the original size, and I assume the file is completely re jpegged, adding more loss. So, if one does this, not only are you adding a huge amount to the file size, you are degrading the image further, even with a higher setting.

Can anyone clarify this 100%?

Also, if one were to say, change a small portion of the image (say correct the red eye), and save to the same previous setting, does the new round of jpegging just happen in the changed pixels, or to the entire image?

Related to this, is how does one make sure that the current saving is on the same level as the previous one? Every time I save, there doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason as to the level of compression that is the default setting on the window. For example, I could be saving all day to a level 8, and then for no reason, 10 or 11 will be the default. Sometimes even the "progressive" option is chosen, rather than baseline, even though I never ever chose progressive. Or, I could be saving a whole bunch of files, and it won’t ask me for a setting, I assume the previous setting is being used. HOw does one confirm the same level compression is being used, and how does one set this without the program seeming to choose random settings???

Many thanks in advance to all that answer. Any good, reference websites to explain this whole thing would also be most welcome.

Stuart

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Gary_Hummell
Nov 20, 2003
Actually, it is not that hard to do your own experiment. Save an original TIFF and then save a number of times at a particular quality setting and then compare back. If you are saving at the highest levels, the image stays good. However, if you do a lot of saves at medium levels the degradation is obvious.
As for me I view JPEG as an output mainly for web. My original files are always saved in a lossless format.

Gary
L
LenHewitt
Nov 20, 2003
Stu,

Incremental degradation will only occure if IMAGE data is changed. Changing META data shouldn’t affect the image quality at all.

The amount of incremental degradation is dependent upon the AREA of modification – an image-wide adjustment of levels of colour balance for instance will cause far more degradatrion than taking out a couple of dust spots. (The latter shouldn’t be at all noticeable"
JF
John_FR_Powers
Nov 21, 2003
I just loaded PS CS and tried to change a JPEG image to a PSD so I could work on it. I always did it in V.7 by File > Save As > Save Options > "As a copy", then Format > PSD. In CS when I do the same, and attempt to open the same file I get a PS error message "Could not complete your request because an unknown or invalid JPEG marker type is found." I haven’t been able to switch any image I done this to back to JPEG either. Can anyone help?
CW
Colin_Walls
Nov 21, 2003
Len

Incremental degradation will only occure if IMAGE data is changed. Changing META data shouldn’t affect the image quality at all

Surely PS [or any software] seeds to read [uncompress] the whole file, metadata and image. Then, after changes to the metadata, recompress [=degrade] it all. Or does the JPEG format contain an uncompressed data header and a compressed picture component?
PH
Photo_Help
Nov 21, 2003
Colin,

You can use exif editors to change the headers without rewriting the JPG data.
L
LenHewitt
Nov 24, 2003
Colin,

Or does the JPEG format contain an uncompressed data header and a
compressed picture component?<<#

Yes, but that isn;’t the point. The jpeg compression algorythm takes 8×8 pixel ‘blocks’ and compresses them according to the compression level set. Provided you don’t change the contents of the 8×8 block, no further compression will take place when re-saving with the same compression settings. The compression was done when it was originally saved, and no fiurther loss will occur.
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 25, 2003
ah, but the trick is to KNOW the original settings no?

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