Ti
Just rumours nothing official.
g.
For what it is, Photoshop Elements is a very efficient image editor. And it seems to be quite stable. I don’t know what you might be looking for in a more updated version, but it seems to me to be a little unrealistic to expect all of the new features of Photoshop CS to trickle down into Photoshop Elements. If you have really grown to the point that you need more than what Photoshop Elements can do for you, then perhaps it’s time for you to consider enduring the pain and purchasing the full version of Photoshop. If any of you are educators, you can purchase the academic version for about $300.
I, for one would like to see the preferences problem fixed, this doesn’t seem like a lot to ask. I would also like to see ACR included. Better (free or reasonable) technical help would be a big plus. —
Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/ wrote in message
.. And it seems to be quite stable.
Well, as you can see, my knowledge is obsolete. I have a five megapixel camera that will shoot uncompressed tiff images, but it will not shoot RAW format. And as far as I can see into the future, I don’t think I will be able to afford anything else. So that feature isn’t something I’m looking for, but I can certainly see where those of you who shoot RAW images would want that feature added.
James,
For whatever reason, I’ve never had a problem with the prefs file becoming corrupted, either in Elements 1 or 2, or Photoshop. I can’t offer a solution as to why that is, but it’s a fact.
🙂
Brent
Brent.
I have never (that I remember) had to reset in Elements or 7 but it seems to happen all to often to people who pop in here.
—
Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/ wrote in message
James,
For whatever reason, I’ve never had a problem with the prefs file
becoming corrupted, either in Elements 1 or 2, or Photoshop. I can’t offer a solution as to why that is, but it’s a fact.
🙂
Brent
re;reset prefs i think it really depends on what you are doing in the program. When i start getting deep into doing alot of different things with alot of different tools, especially in conjunction with each other I find my program misbehaves. Many times I just save, close and re-open and all is fine. I rarely have reset prefs but it happens.
A program like Photoshop Elements is so open and unrestricted that every user is free to develop their own style for using it. Sometimes when I read questions in this forum I answer them in the context of how I use Elements. Then, when I read the answer that solved the problem for the original poster, I amuse myself with my thinking. I think when someone asks a question that seems really weird, an easy solution to suggest is to reset the preferences, hoping to solve the problem quickly. In all the years I have used Photoshop and Photoshop Elements I have only had to reset the preferences once.
A lot of times people who come to these forums are here because they have a problem. People who use the forum constitute a very small percentage of those who are actually using Photoshop Elements. But when we read about a problem and it repeats itself it’s easy for us to develop the attitude that this really is a problem when using this program. I think if all of us would take a little more time to analyze what we are doing we would probably be able to find ways to resolve many of our own problems. But when we get in a time crunch the natural reaction is to turn to the user forum for a quick solution. Then the forum becomes more of a problem solver resource than a place to go to get new ideas. Don’t get me wrong. Everyone needs some help occasionally. But if new users could just understand that they will gain an infinite amount of knowledge by experimenting, they could become productive much more quickly. Anyone who has just started using Photoshop Elements and is in a serious time crunch on a critical project is just not being realistic. Like any other software program, one must allow time to learn how to use it efficiently and effectively.
Jim that is exactly why I feel Adobe needs to offer better technical service. To be allowed only one free call then to be charged thereafter is a very poor policy in my opinion.
—
Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/ wrote in message
. Then the forum becomes more of a problem solver resource than a place
to go to get new ideas.
Yes, you are probably right about that. Some of the software applications and add-ons that I use come with 60 days of free, unlimited technical support. I think this is a good policy because it gives new users an opportunity to get their feet wet before they are hung out to dry. But I think Microsoft and Adobe are a couple of companies that are out of touch with reality. They seem to have the attitude that "if we make it, people will pay". I will say that I have gained quite a bit of understanding from going to the Adobe Expert Center. But again, I am a firm believer in experimenting. Case in point:
A few days ago someone asked on this forum about how to resize a group of photographs. He had read the book but didn’t understand. I tried to outline the procedure. The person responded back wanting to know if there was someone he could call and talk to personally to walk him through the process. I will admit that I was a bit abrupt with my answer. I encouraged the person to go ahead and experiment and see what happened. If it didn’t work they would still have their original photos and could try again. People seem to be afraid to make a mistake. Some people seem to feel that they have to do it perfectly the first time. And if people would just take the time to experiment and try different features for themselves I think they would learn infinitely more than they would from having someone walk them through a procedure their way.
I guess I have a little different attitude toward Photoshop Elements because I had been using an older version of Photoshop previously. And it wasn’t that big of the deal for me to switch over to using Elements. It was primarily a process of learning where some of the tools were located and then learning how to use the new ones. But when I first started using Photoshop I nearly went crazy because I didn’t know how to do anything. So I just scanned a photograph and started experimenting. I didn’t worry about whether the results would be any good. I didn’t absolutely have to make this work, or else. I just started playing "what if" to see what would happen. And it was then that I started to understand how Photoshop was going to work for me. There is still so much about the program that I don’t understand. People start talking about channels and layer masks, and start talking about different blending modes like they know exactly what each one of those modes is going to do, and my eyes just roll. But I have developed a workflow that works for me and every once in a while I pick up something new that for me is really significant, and my knowledge and my ability increases again.
I don’t know why I’m rambling on about this. None of you really care about what I do, really. You have your own projects to worry about. I guess the point of this whole message is, don’t be afraid to experiment.
I think in defence of Adobe and to and Microsoft they are both selling complex pieces of software. I suspect when they perceive technical support as helping a person get their products up an running and not on teaching them how to use it. If I can’t get my product to install on a system that Adobe supports then they should help. In this, forum while some questions are related in this nature, most of them are not. I if Adobe offered three months of free support most of the questions would not be on setting up but would be of the ilk of "I just used the bucket tool and now how do I get rid of the bucket" I suspect most people buying this product are doing so for the first time and while the manual covers the ground it is clear as mud. What is needed is a manual that is also a tutorial.
Grant
Trouble is, there are not very many users who will actually sit down and read a manual. I don’t care how well it is written. Now I do not claim to be a good writer, but I have developed a number of database applications that are used extensively here at work. When I first started I was asked to write user manuals to distribute. Almost every user calls and asks me how to perform tasks that are outlined the manual. I refer them to a page in the manual, but they don’t know where they put it. I take them a new copy, show them the reference, and they express appreciation for the manual. But the next time they have a problem, they call, I refer them to the appropriate page, and the cycle repeats itself. They tell me they just don’t have time to be bothered with a manual. You see, everyone….. you, and me, and everyone else is a computer expert. And none of us need to read a book to learn how to do anything. 🙂
Jim – As a rank amateur who tend to muddle through and find the way software best works for me, I feel that many of the questions come from people who 1) aren’t that proficient with computers in the first place and haven’t developed a kind of intuitive sense about simple computer problem solving,
2) haven’t really read the documentation (PE2 doc that comes with the
program is pretty dry and not great on info), and 3) haven’t thought to purchase a few books to learn the program and suggested work flow that many excellent authors have provided.
Frankly, I have had much better success with software problems, tricks, bugs, and glitches, by going on the various newsgroups every few days and scanning the questions and answers. The PE2 newsgroup is just great, and you and the other technically proficient and kind folks who take the time to help us out are a thousand times better than the official tech support that the vendors provide. Many thanks!
wrote in message
Yes, you are probably right about that. Some of the software applications
and add-ons that I use come with 60 days of free, unlimited technical support. I think this is a good policy because it gives new users an opportunity to get their feet wet before they are hung out to dry. But I think Microsoft and Adobe are a couple of companies that are out of touch with reality. They seem to have the attitude that "if we make it, people will pay". I will say that I have gained quite a bit of understanding from going to the Adobe Expert Center. But again, I am a firm believer in experimenting. Case in point:
A few days ago someone asked on this forum about how to resize a group of
photographs. He had read the book but didn’t understand. I tried to outline the procedure. The person responded back wanting to know if there was someone he could call and talk to personally to walk him through the process. I will admit that I was a bit abrupt with my answer. I encouraged the person to go ahead and experiment and see what happened. If it didn’t work they would still have their original photos and could try again. People seem to be afraid to make a mistake. Some people seem to feel that they have to do it perfectly the first time. And if people would just take the time to experiment and try different features for themselves I think they would learn infinitely more than they would from having someone walk them through a procedure their way.
I guess I have a little different attitude toward Photoshop Elements
because I had been using an older version of Photoshop previously. And it wasn’t that big of the deal for me to switch over to using Elements. It was primarily a process of learning where some of the tools were located and then learning how to use the new ones. But when I first started using Photoshop I nearly went crazy because I didn’t know how to do anything. So I just scanned a photograph and started experimenting. I didn’t worry about whether the results would be any good. I didn’t absolutely have to make this work, or else. I just started playing "what if" to see what would happen. And it was then that I started to understand how Photoshop was going to work for me. There is still so much about the program that I don’t understand. People start talking about channels and layer masks, and start talking about different blending modes like they know exactly what each one of those modes is going to do, and my eyes just roll. But I have developed a workflow that works for me and every once in a while I pick up something new that for me is really significant, and my knowledge and my ability increases again.
I don’t know why I’m rambling on about this. None of you really care about
what I do, really. You have your own projects to worry about. I guess the point of this whole message is, don’t be afraid to experiment.
I’ve been using elements for a few months now, and I love it. This is not to say there aren’t and haven’t been difficulties. PE2 is quite frankly one of the least intuitive software packages I’ve ever used. One of the biggest obstacles to "experimenting" is that the "look and feel" is so much different than any other software I’ve used (although I’ve used many). Quite often there have been relatively simple operations that I’ve wanted to do, but I didn’t know how to do them and the help didn’t help. The manual is manifestly inadequate both as a specification (what it does) and as a user guide (how to do it.) As far as support goes, does Adobe do support? 😉
It’s a great tool, but it’s arcane and enigmatic. Seems to me that it would be fairly straightforward to put together a reasonable series of tutorials that demonstrate how the tool can be used. Start with something basic like selections. It’s amazing what a superficial job Adobe does on selections in the manual. And work it from there. How to do compositing, etc.
Mark, there are lots of tutorials online and many, many ‘aftermarket’ books that make Elements snap into focus (pun intended). As a starter, go to the Elements Challenge home page and check out the Links section for some advice on free tutorials (
http://home.cogeco.ca/~challenge/Links.html). Bob Warren also has a series of book reviews on his website, but I’ve lost the link to that one; hope someone can come up with it for you.
Chuck
The Adobe publications, "Classroom in a Book" seem to do this tutorial based approach (I think there is one for Elements – there certainly is for Photoshop). Needless to say these books are expensive.
I think part of the problem that some people have with Elements ie finding it untuitive (I know I found it that way at first) is due to lack of knowledge of the way that image processing work flow can work. It took me a lot of reading and experiment to find out the best way for me to do things. Once I had a bit more knowledge about the best way to use the program and what it could actually do, then the set up seemed to make a lot more sense. The Elements manual seems to just be a cut down version of the full PS manual, which is largely aimed at pros who know what they want to do with the package. I think a totally different approach on the user manual for a package like Elements is required, with a much more task focus approach.
(and Jim I do read what you write – while I may not always agree, what you write is always thoughtful and encourages discourse and thought. Which is a Good Thing.)
Susan S
Thanks, Chuck. I do realize that there are a number of resources out there that help quite a bit. My issue is that they’re not from Adobe and you have to search them out (rather than have them provided for you by Adobe.) I can understand the cost issue of creating exhaustive documentation, but it’s nearly free to provide the information for download (rather than as printed matter.)
As more and more people turn to digital cameras, there will be more and more photo editing programs to cater to this trend – upload and adjust my photos, print what I see on my screen.
Elements is a great program, but probably more than most people need. I see the same basic questions being asked week after week, and most of the answers are in the FAQ. There are many knowledgeable and patient (kind, helpful) people in this group. I’ve learned a lot just lurking – someone always seems to ask my questions.
I will buy the program that supplies good documentation, FULL color management, with a good RAW editor, works on OSX and doesn’t bankrupt me – everything else is superfluous, although I will probably never give up Elements (for those occasional "special" photos) and I certainly don’t need CS just for those features. If Adobe offered better documentation, I wouldn’t have this big pile of books. 🙂
Cliff, it will be interesting to see if a mid-price level program with the specs you need will hit the market. Elements comes close in so many ways; the price gap to get the additional features via full Photoshop is a cavern for most people. And even full Photoshop has sketchy documentation, at least in the case of PS7. The manual is no better than the Elements manual and the help screens are spartan at best.
I guess the upside for me of that documentation weakness is that it’s ‘introduced’ me to such great people as Mikkel Aaland, Katrin Eismann and Scott Kelby, to name just a few. When dealing with programs like Elements and PS that have so many great features, it’s great to be able to peek over the shoulders of the artists and learn 3 or more different ways to perform the same task!
Chuck
Chuck, cavern is a good word – CS costs a thousand bucks in Canada. Fortunately for me, I am able to get good prints 95% of the time with Elements, so guess I can’t really complain. And yes there is a wealth of information available on the net, and I do enjoy reading other peoples tecniques and ideas.
Cliff
Cliff – I’ve just bought CS to get the RAW converter, colour management, OSX compatability. Shame it doesn’t meet the affordability criteria though…actually there are a lot of other good things which make CS really nice to have, nicer then Elements 2; some of which hopefully – like the shadow/highlight tool – will make their way into Elements 3. I have my doubts that the RAW plug in will as it’s a key professional feature that helps make the full version a must have for some sections of the market (like CMYK for the graphic prepress). It’s all an issue (for Adobe) of dividing the market up into segments to maximise the profit that you can extract from it…
Earlier in this thread there was a mention of the academic version of full Photoshop. Other than the 50%-ish reduction in price, are there any other differences in the product? Will a future upgrade necessitate an "academic" version upgrade?
In my opinion a lot of tools in Elements are pretty intuitive, provided you are a skilled darkroom worker. Many features relate to these skills.
Once one has to learn everything from start, I can understand one gets puzzled.
Recently I had to buy CS as I needed the CMYK conversion and liked some of the extras in CS like its ways of upsampling, the shadow/highlight control etc.
Nevertheless I suppose I will still be using Elements quite often to create a smooth start to everything new that will come to me.
Probably that’s the way Adobe wants it: buy PSE first and later buy Cs too. It is like an entrée before the main course.
(When it comes to meals, I always look forward to the sweets at the end of the meal. What will be in it for me after CS?) 😉
Leen
The education software is identical ( I think you may be missing a few extras such as fonts that Adobe throws in to the full retail version). At least in Australia the software price reduction is more than fifty per cent (and on the full CS suite even higher). You have to be a student (course longer than six months IIRC) or a member of the staff of certain categories of educational institution and be using the software for personal use for non-business purposes. You can’t transfer the ownership of an educational copy or sell it. You can upgrade it, or upgrade it to a full license to allow it to be used commercially (I believe – but you need to check with Adobe to get the details that apply to your area).
I have the education version of Elements and am anxiously awaiting the delivery of CS Susan S
Jim Hess,
You wrote: I don’t know what you might be looking for in a more updated version, but it seems to me to be a little unrealistic to expect all of the new features of Photoshop CS to trickle down into Photoshop Elements. If you have really grown to the point that you need more than what Photoshop Elements can do for you, then perhaps it’s time for you to consider enduring the pain and purchasing the full version of Photoshop."
You’re response is listed as #2 in this thread. My original question was simply asking if there is a newer version on the horizon… Period! Perhaps I’ve taken your response in the wrong vein, however, you seem to be assuming much completely out of context. I haven’t "expected all of the new features of Photoshop to "trickle down" as you say, nor have I "grown to the point…". Frankly, I find your response rather presumptive and bordering on rude. All I wanted, because I’m not a frequent poster at this forum, is to find out if there is an update shortly. That’s all! Don’t presume to know another user’s reasons for asking the question, because you’ve obviously read too much in a basic question and got it wrong.
Ti
Susan, just FYI, I have the standalone version of Photoshop CS and it didn’t come with any fonts. Not like the old days when even Photodeluxe came with a few. I don’t believe there’s any difference in the academic version unless you don’t get Deke’s cd along with it?
Should have said I would imagine the windows version may come with the interface fonts. I was talking about the mac version.
Ti,
OK, then the answer to your question is, "No, not at this time" PERIOD! I suppose my choice of words could have been better, but I certainly did not mean to offend you or anyone in any way. I’m sorry that you took offense with my answer. The only reason I used the "trickle down" phrase is because I thought it was a concise description of what I perceived to be a standard operating procedure from Adobe. And, like you, I would like to see some of the new features that are in Photoshop CS "trickle down" into a new version of Photoshop Elements.
Again, I apologize for offending you. This is a forum that is very well suited to the exchanging of ideas. Unfortunately, since we don’t know each individual personally, personal writing styles and sometimes even language barriers may stand in the way of exchanging ideas effectively. Have a nice day.
Jim
Apology accepted, Jim. Thank you for taking the time to explain, and yes, things do get misconstrued, but regardless, your explanation is appreciated.
Ti.
Thanks, Ray. I did indeed find that page and I’ve been through the tutorials. I just find them to be rather limited in scope. One of my main complaints is that some of the basics, like selecting, aren’t adequately explained. Selecting is a technique that is so fundamental to compositing (among other things) that its importance cannot be overemphasized; this being the case it should get a more or less exhaustive treatment. It’s certainly one of the areas that I feel weakest in.
"actually there are a lot of other good things which make CS really nice to have, nicer then Elements 2; some of which hopefully – like the shadow/highlight tool – will make their way into Elements 3."
I wouldn’t count to heavily on that one. The shadow/highlight tool is a more advanced version of a tool that was first introduced with Elements. It is to my understanding that the reason it was expanded was for its inclusion in CS rather than for the simple advancement of the tool… Sort of like the photo stich in CS….
Not saying it won’t happen. It just seems unlikely as it would further complicate Elements making it more difficult for new users. Remember, there have already been posts in this thread by people saying it isn’t intuitive (i.e. easy to pick up and use out of the box) enough as is. 🙂
I was very impressed with the hardcopy manual in the PSE2 retail box. It’s one of the best I’ve ever seen with a software product.
But this forum is invaluable – the pooled knowledge and experience couldn’t be matched in any online help or publcation. The good thing is that it often gives a direct answer to a specific problem. In general I’ve found product forums better than any help lines and certainly most manuals.
