product activation

C
Posted By
ClubNinja
Jul 4, 2003
Views
2017
Replies
15
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Closed
1 simple word crack !!
"Glenn Pechacek" wrote in message
Adobe FAQ on the matter.

http://www.pacific.adobe.com/activation/main.html

I’d voice my displeasure.

Glenn

"Getho" wrote in message
Abobe has released photoshop 7 in Australia with product activation. I believe that up to now the adobe liscence has allowed people to install
the
product on more than one computer if they were not being used at the
same
time. Am I right in assuming that? (If so then why the tunaround? I
work
from home and office – its physically impossible to be working on both computers at once. It just seems like profiteering to ask me to buy two copies, when I could have got a non-activation copy by the luck of the
draw)
Getho


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A
Auspics
Jul 4, 2003
If you care to actually read the Adobe information you’d see it does not change the existing EULA. If Adobe currently allow you to install on 2 PCs, then you can continue to do that.
I personally doubt that they ever did but hey… You seem to know.

"Getho" wrote in message
Abobe has released photoshop 7 in Australia with product activation.
I
believe that up to now the adobe liscence has allowed people to
install
the product on more than one computer if they were not being used at the
same time. Am I right in assuming that? (If so then why the tunaround? I work
from home and office – its physically impossible to be working on both computers at once. It just seems like profiteering to ask me to buy
two
copies, when I could have got a non-activation copy by the luck of the
draw)
Getho
P
Ptarmigan
Jul 17, 2003
"stuart" wrote in message
Are you sure you are allowed to install on 2 machines as long as you are
not
using them both at the same time? I’d be interested to see that in the licence agreement.

Stuart
Sydney

"pioe(rmv)" <"pioe(rmv)"@coldsiberia.org> wrote in message
Getho wrote:

(http://www.pacific.adobe.com/activation/main.html)

Abobe has released photoshop 7 in Australia with product activation.
I
believe that up to now the adobe liscence has allowed people to
install
the
product on more than one computer if they were not being used at the
same
time. Am I right in assuming that? (If so then why the tunaround? I
work
from home and office – its physically impossible to be working on both computers at once. It just seems like profiteering to ask me to buy
two
copies, when I could have got a non-activation copy by the luck of the
draw)
Adobe will not change the license rules.

The difference is that with Product Activation the user can never install on a new PC, or a reformatted one, without "permission" from the software company.

That means: If you want to install on your own machine, or re-install from scratch today, tomorrow or in x number of years you need the company’s activation service to do so.

When the software and its installation and use no longer is controlled by the user, they have changed your PC from a user-controlled unit to one they control.

That is not acceptable.

And let us stop talking about the pirates. Adobe does this because of their market position and will get away from it if people are gullible enough. By making us blame the pirates they divide and rule us. Those who sell crippled programs and wants us to pay for them are themselves wrongdoers.

By the way, here is my copy of Photoshop:

http://www.coldsiberia.org/public/IMG_1099_800.jpg

Just to show that I do not write this because I am unwilling to pay for what I use. I say no to Product Activation and encourage others to do the same, because a program that needs registration or activation for each new installation from scratch is a defect one.

Our working tools must function independent from the company that made them, and they must do so now and in the future.

Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway
http://www.alpha-gruppen.com/ (Wolf images)
Its all going down the ‘XP’ path I’m afraid. Do they really think this will stop the ‘hackers’ – don’t think so.
Just another way to hit the ‘honest’ user.
Who says honesty is the best policy ?

Brian
&
"pioe[rmv]"
Jul 17, 2003
Ptarmigan wrote:

"pioe(rmv)" <"pioe(rmv)"@coldsiberia.org> wrote:

The difference is that with Product Activation the user can never install on a new PC, or a reformatted one, without "permission" from the software company.
That means: If you want to install on your own machine, or re-install from scratch today, tomorrow or in x number of years you need the company’s activation service to do so.
When the software and its installation and use no longer is controlled by the user, they have changed your PC from a user-controlled unit to one they control. That is not acceptable.

Its all going down the ‘XP’ path I’m afraid.

Well, that is not cut in stone. The market relations are always fluctuating, and if enough customers refuse to accept it, it will be eliminated. If Open Source and GPL software become much more widespread it will also help greatly. For example, look at this: http://www.sot.com/en/os.shtml

Do they really think this will
stop the ‘hackers’ – don’t think so.
Just another way to hit the ‘honest’ user.

It is absolutely not going to stop the crackers and the pirates, but it is going to introduce more hassle and also uncertainty for the individual user. Significantly, corporate versions (at least for Microsoft programs) do not have Product Activation because the software businesses are afraid to alienate their corporate customers.

Who says honesty is the best policy ?

I fully understand your disillusionment. However, personally I like to be able to say: "I have paid for the software I use, and precisely therefore I do not accept these built-in limitations in software. I will never buy versions with such strings attached. It must be the user of a tool who controls it. It cannot be tolerated to be forced to be dependent on the manufacturer for installing and using a working tool."

If all honest users say this, the market will function as it is supposed to do. And we can maintain honesty.


Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway
http://www.alpha-gruppen.com/
B
Bryce
Jul 17, 2003
Quote: (from adobe.com)

The Adobe activation process supports installation on a primary and secondary PC as well as most system upgrades (e.g. operating system, motherboard, memory or processor). In most cases, customers can change computing environments without needing to contact Adobe Customer Support.
S
stuart
Jul 18, 2003
I will dig it up now… normally that sort of thing is such legalese that its not worth reading at all. I’ll see if its in plain english! Stuart
Sydney
"Roy Petersen" wrote in message
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:20:34 +1000, "stuart"
wrote:

Are you sure you are allowed to install on 2 machines as long as you are
not
using them both at the same time? I’d be interested to see that in the licence agreement.

Yes, it’s in there. As long as you’re not using/running them at the same time. You should read it…
&
"pioe(rmv)"
Jul 19, 2003
Bryce wrote:

Quote: (from adobe.com)

The Adobe activation process supports installation on a primary and secondary PC as well as most system upgrades (e.g. operating system, motherboard, memory or processor). In most cases, customers can change computing environments without needing to contact Adobe Customer Support.

The sweetening of a pill does not alter its true content.

The question is whether or not it is possible to install the software completely from scratch now, tomorrow or in x years on your future machine without being dependent on a software company’s registration/activation service.

Since that is deliberately made impossible with Product Activation, such programs with strings attached to them should be rejected without fail.

If the market rejects crippled software, it will not be profitable to make it, and it will disappear. But that requires a massive customer boycott.

Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway
http://www.alpha-gruppen.com/
B
Bryce
Jul 21, 2003
Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s going to happen.
B
Bryce
Jul 22, 2003
not gonna happen.

just be a man and pony up.
R
Roberto
Jul 22, 2003
Sorry, but if this was ever going to happen it would have happened with Windows XP and Office XP. People hate Microsoft and if a stand was going to be made on product activation it would have happened then.

Consumers are too cattle like. It is far to easy to lead them around by the nose hairs. The only time they fight back is when it is very very painful. The recording industry is getting close to the stage now.

R
H
Hecate
Jul 23, 2003
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:29:00 +0200, "pioe(rmv)" <"pioe(rmv)"@coldsiberia.org> wrote:

I am convinced that when it has come that far, they have gone way too far and that this will backfire on them.

If we talk about and discuss these things with our friends, family and acquaintances, the snowball will start and it will roll ahead.
I’m afraid I’m rather more cynical. To some extent I would agree in the sense for a lot of the software I use, such as my firewall, mail client, newsreader, I’ve looked for shareware options which, to my mind, are a much fairer business model. In fact, when I need something I always look for the shareware alternative first. But, I’ve been doing that for years. And despite the shareware industries reasonable prices, try outs, etc, you just have to look through the newsgroups to see people stealing their product too.

Consequently, through a process of inertia, the fact that people in particular businesses need specific apps, the clever use of activation only for individual products thereby causing no complaints form business, and the access to stolen software mean that nospam is right. Nothing will happen. Just a lot of complaints from a few lone crusaders, unmatched by anything from the majority of the populace.



Hecate
(Fried computers a specialty)
PE
phoney.email
Jul 23, 2003
The root of the problem is the monopoly itself. As long as monopoly is legal there’s nothing anyone can do.

I’m long in the tooth enough to remember the same problem with IBM. They abused and insulted their hostages (they charitably called them "customers") just like MS does today. We all agonized and wrung our hands, but to no avail.

And all the legal gymnastics lead nowhere. They take too long and eventually are a dead-end as politics interfere. Reagan dismissed the IBM anti-trust suit after 7 years and Bush didn’t even have to do that as the current MS case imploded all by itself. By the time the court came up with a verdict, Netscape was no more, for all intents and purposes.

Of course, even that verdict was eventually rolled back ending up in a tap on the wrist for MS and a "naughty-naughty, don’t do that again". And that’s after Billy lied on tape! So much for the legal recourse to fighting monopoly abuse…

The only way a monopoly can be beaten is, alas, when it’s replaced by another monopoly, which is usually a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire".

So, instead of wasting time and energy on agonizing over, and fighting individual monopolies it’s the monopoly itself that needs to be addressed!

My 2 c worth…

Don.



On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:29:00 +0200, "pioe(rmv)" <"pioe(rmv)"@coldsiberia.org> wrote:

nospam wrote:

If your talking massive consumer protest and boycott you are correct that won’t happen.

That is a self-fulfilling prophecy: It will not happen if everyone agrees that it will not.

We will do what we did with Microsoft. Keep buying and using their products until the become to big to deal with and then sit and whine like a 3 year old over it.

But resistance and awareness against their less than honorable business practices is growing.

I believe that we are going to mount a massive and powerful protest, eventually. With ubiquitous Product Activation and strings attached it becomes obvious to customers that they are paying for very little – they basically pay for a very limited right to use a program on very strict conditions that go far beyond anything that can be justified by the existence of piracy. It effectively makes the whole machine entirely and permanently dependent on the software company’s services and their availability, just to use it. Thus you have no control over your investement – they have taken it from you.

I am convinced that when it has come that far, they have gone way too far and that this will backfire on them.

If we talk about and discuss these things with our friends, family and acquaintances, the snowball will start and it will roll ahead.
Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway
http://www.alpha-gruppen.com/

Don.
&
"pioe(rmv)"
Jul 27, 2003
Hecate wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:29:00 +0200, "pioe(rmv)" <"pioe(rmv)"@coldsiberia.org> wrote:

I am convinced that when it has come that far, they have gone way too far and that this will backfire on them.
If we talk about and discuss these things with our friends, family and acquaintances, the snowball will start and it will roll ahead.

[……]
Consequently, through a process of inertia, the fact that people in particular businesses need specific apps, the clever use of activation only for individual products thereby causing no complaints form business, and the access to stolen software mean that nospam is right. Nothing will happen. Just a lot of complaints from a few lone crusaders, unmatched by anything from the majority of the populace.

While I agree with your description of the situation, I still maintain that it is likely to change. The big company business model for software requires an ever-increasing need for revenue. Since a small proportion of their staff are actually programmers, and large numbers of employees are involved in administration, marketing and now Digital Rights Management and other control schemes, it becomes more and more obvious that this is irrational and does not contribute to the improvement of the products.

Their stranglehold on their customers can only be maintained as long as they have a near-monopoly on the desktop and that monopoly is not challenged.

Herein lies the potential for change. The very discussion we have here contributes to a heightened awareness about these issues. As an example, just take your above mentioning how the software companies cleverly use activation only for the "little man/woman" and refrain from forcing it on their business customers. Many are unaware of such details.

When people become more aware, and when increasing numbers of users understand the ramifications of software programs that are permanently dependent on the software company which distributed it, things are going to become different. Yes, I believe that it will be so. If we all discuss these things with people it will set things in motion. Slowly at first, but the reaction will come. Remember that an intert object, once set in motion, moves with great force and changes whatever is in its path.

Human inertia when faced by gross abuse of power and position is the result of a lack of awareness and knowledge. That can be remedied.

Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway
http://www.alpha-gruppen.com/
&
"pioe(rmv)"
Jul 27, 2003
Don wrote:

The root of the problem is the monopoly itself. As long as monopoly is legal there’s nothing anyone can do.

Very true. Product Activation and other possible built-in limitations is something they can do only because of their dominance in the market, and they do it to maintain that dominance and control.

I’m long in the tooth enough to remember the same problem with IBM. They abused and insulted their hostages (they charitably called them "customers") just like MS does today. We all agonized and wrung our hands, but to no avail.

Power regularly corrupts, and when it does, more power spawns greater corruption. But I do not believe that there is nothing to do.

The only way a monopoly can be beaten is, alas, when it’s replaced by another monopoly, which is usually a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire".

Not necessarily. Another solution is to change the situation. We have to ask the question without prejudice: "Is the large business model with big controlling companies necessary for the production of high quality software?"

So, instead of wasting time and energy on agonizing over, and fighting individual monopolies it’s the monopoly itself that needs to be addressed!

Agreed. Here is one way to do so:

http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2001041200620OPBZCY

Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway
http://www.alpha-gruppen.com/
H
Hecate
Jul 28, 2003
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:01:28 +0200, "pioe(rmv)" <"pioe(rmv)"@coldsiberia.org> wrote:

While I agree with your description of the situation, I still maintain that it is likely to change. The big company business model for software requires an ever-increasing need for revenue. Since a small proportion of their staff are actually programmers, and large numbers of employees are involved in administration, marketing and now Digital Rights Management and other control schemes, it becomes more and more obvious that this is irrational and does not contribute to the improvement of the products.

I would agree with your premise in terms of efficiency. But you are making an assumption – that is, that continual product improvement is necessary. Not so. Product improvement is only necessary to the extent that the product satisfies the users needs. As we have a situation where most office software is far more powerful already than the average users needs, marketing of small "features" can easily give the impression of improvement without too much effort. The driving force then becomes marketing, and I’m sure you can see that this is already what has happened. There is no irrationality in using small numbers of expensive programmers and large numbers of inexpensive marketeers to produce a product which makes a large profit without large overheads in terms of specialist employees. And if you think that’s cynical, you’d be correct 😉

Their stranglehold on their customers can only be maintained as long as they have a near-monopoly on the desktop and that monopoly is not challenged.

I disagree. Why do you think MS Office has a large part, a de facto near monopoly, of the desktop? The problem MS detractors have is they fail to see the cause. The simple reason is that MS Office is far and away the best of breed. The same applies to Photoshop, and Adobe know it. Which is why they feel they can get away with what MS have done. people won’t change from the best product to a lesser one without massive incentive, and Activation isn’t it.

Herein lies the potential for change. The very discussion we have here contributes to a heightened awareness about these issues. As an example, just take your above mentioning how the software companies cleverly use activation only for the "little man/woman" and refrain from forcing it on their business customers. Many are unaware of such details.

I am perfectly aware of the situation, but have no intention of changing software. Why? Because I buy business software and never see activation. by far the majority of Office packages, and buyers of Photoshop, are business users, and they’re not affected. Furthermore, as far as Office goes, your premise still doesn’t apply. Why? Because the users that aren’t business users tend to be casual users, with no knowledge of computers who want a piece f software they know how to use, and that they use at work. In most cases this will be Office. And those people, even if they are reading this discussion, couldn’t give a damn about activation. All they know is the software came with the computer and they just have to click a button and their details go whizzing down their shiny new ADSL connection and their software works.

When people become more aware, and when increasing numbers of users understand the ramifications of software programs that are permanently dependent on the software company which distributed it, things are going to become different. Yes, I believe that it will be so. If we all discuss these things with people it will set things in motion. Slowly at first, but the reaction will come. Remember that an intert object, once set in motion, moves with great force and changes whatever is in its path.

I wish your premise that human nature is questioning and open to reasoned argument etc was true. What you are proposing however, is an idealised view of the world where people actually care whether X company does Y and so forth. They don’t. Dissing MS or Adobe is always going to be a minority sport, and users of "Office Alternatives" are always going to be geeky Linux user or Style over Substance Mac users. Not that there’s anything wrong with geeks or style, but you only have to look at the sales figures to see what a minority they are. MS or Adobe can ignore the minority, keep their market share and be laughing all the way to the bank.

Human inertia when faced by gross abuse of power and position is the result of a lack of awareness and knowledge. That can be remedied.
I disagree completely. Whilst knowledge may be power for those willing to use it, most people don’t even want the knowledge, let alone being prepared to use it. In an ideal world it may be different, but there are so many examples to show that in the main, people just look the other way. And if you want a supreme example of that, just look at Germany 1933-1945.



Hecate
(Fried computers a specialty)
PE
phoney.email
Jul 28, 2003
I’m long in the tooth enough to remember the same problem with IBM. They abused and insulted their hostages (they charitably called them "customers") just like MS does today. We all agonized and wrung our hands, but to no avail.

Power regularly corrupts, and when it does, more power spawns greater corruption. But I do not believe that there is nothing to do.

My point was that there’s lots we can do, but we should direct our energies at making monopoly itself illegal and not get sidetracked into fighting any one company which happens to be "monopoly de jour".

Yes, valid criticism of the current evil monopolist is essential and should continue, but not to the extent that we lose sight of the real problem: the monopoly itself.

The only way a monopoly can be beaten is, alas, when it’s replaced by another monopoly, which is usually a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire".

Not necessarily. Another solution is to change the situation. We have to ask the question without prejudice: "Is the large business model with big controlling companies necessary for the production of high quality software?"

This was meant within the context of monopoly, as in: As long as monopoly itself it legal, the only way to dislodge a monopoly is with another one.

I like to draw a parallel with politics. It’s generally accepted that dictatorship is a bad political model yet most people are tolerant of its business equivalent, the monopoly, which is very inconsistent. Apply the US monopoly rule to politics and it reads: Dictatorships are OK as long as they don’t abuse their power…

The oxymoron nature of such a statement is self evident and needs no further comment!

So, instead of wasting time and energy on agonizing over, and fighting individual monopolies it’s the monopoly itself that needs to be addressed!

Agreed. Here is one way to do so:

http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2001041200620OPBZCY

I’m all for what Linux stands for and, indeed, I run Linux myself but, unfortunately, it’s just not going to work.

There are still a number of problems with the model. For example, while it’s true that bugs are fixed almost immediately this leads to version conflicts and incompatibilities. Strange as it may sound, MS bugs are at least stable. Infuriating, but reliably repeatable. Linux library mess is much worse than Windows DLL-hell ever was. Etc.

There is also the problem of RedHat turning in a Linux monopoly. For example, RH charges more for support than Microsoft! That’s both perverse and inexcusable. Not to mention RH’s underhanded treatment of KDE (misconfigured to be less powerful and to look like Gnome which RH is pushing). A programmer at RH quit in disgust over it. And so on…

I still maintain that the monopoly itself should be made illegal and then get market forces (copyright and copyleft) to fight it out on a level playing field.

Don.

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