Very basic layer/mode question

KH
Posted By
Karl Hiller
Jul 13, 2004
Views
436
Replies
8
Status
Closed
This is a case of "I’m not an expert; I just need to do this one thing with Photoshop."

I’m using 7.0 and I need to re-do the map of the two floors of the library where I work. I scanned in the old map, saved it as a TIFF, and painstakingly edited it bit-by-bit until the second floor was nice and clear. (The old map was numerous photocopy generations old and looked like crap.) I was using the Brush tool for this, and the Mode that is checked in the Image menu is "bitmap". The map is in black and white, and the Brush draws nice sharp-edged squares, just the way I want it to.

I don’t really want to do the first floor this way. The second floor is smaller and has less detail, and it took forever to redraw because I was working in the same layer — erasing and redrawing and erasing and redrawing. I decided to try my hand at layers: Take a copy of the second floor map, erase everything except the things that exist on both floors (external walls, stairs, etc.), and then add the scan of the first floor map as a transparent layer. Then, use the first floor scan as a guide for drawing the new map, and delete the layer when I’m done.

However, every single thing on the Layer menu is greyed out. I cannot add a layer. I have my second-floor map saved as a TIFF, and I tried saving it as a PSD, but I can’t add a layer either way. The only way I can add a layer is to change the image mode from Bitmap to Greyscale… And when I do that, the Brush tool refuses to draw the nice sharp black pixels that I want to use.

I either need to get a layer into my black-and-white bitmap, or I need to be able to draw non-fuzzy lines in the greyscale, layered map.

I’ve flipped through some books and hunted for an answer on the web, but turned up nothing. What am I missing?

thanks

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L
Larry
Jul 13, 2004
OK, you will not be able to edit layers in bitmap mode. You are correct that you have to convert to grayscale. Grayscale images are aliased or , as you put it , ‘fuzzy’.
I think what you need here is to research using vectors or paths. Use a program like Illustrator or similar vector drawing application. You will get nice crisp artwork every time that you can edit and scale to your hearts content. Vector artwork is ‘non-fuzzy’!!

hth you on your way

Karl Hiller wrote:

This is a case of "I’m not an expert; I just need to do this one thing with Photoshop."

I’m using 7.0 and I need to re-do the map of the two floors of the library where I work. I scanned in the old map, saved it as a TIFF, and painstakingly edited it bit-by-bit until the second floor was nice and clear. (The old map was numerous photocopy generations old and looked like crap.) I was using the Brush tool for this, and the Mode that is checked in the Image menu is "bitmap". The map is in black and white, and the Brush draws nice sharp-edged squares, just the way I want it to.
I don’t really want to do the first floor this way. The second floor is smaller and has less detail, and it took forever to redraw because I was working in the same layer — erasing and redrawing and erasing and redrawing. I decided to try my hand at layers: Take a copy of the second floor map, erase everything except the things that exist on both floors (external walls, stairs, etc.), and then add the scan of the first floor map as a transparent layer. Then, use the first floor scan as a guide for drawing the new map, and delete the layer when I’m done.
However, every single thing on the Layer menu is greyed out. I cannot add a layer. I have my second-floor map saved as a TIFF, and I tried saving it as a PSD, but I can’t add a layer either way. The only way I can add a layer is to change the image mode from Bitmap to Greyscale… And when I do that, the Brush tool refuses to draw the nice sharp black pixels that I want to use.

I either need to get a layer into my black-and-white bitmap, or I need to be able to draw non-fuzzy lines in the greyscale, layered map.
I’ve flipped through some books and hunted for an answer on the web, but turned up nothing. What am I missing?

thanks
J
jrzyguy
Jul 13, 2004
just a suggestion (you may not have the softeware)…..rather than editing your scan…why not put your scan in either Illustrator or Corel Draw or Freehand…and tracing it? I frequently have to do this as i have clients that bring in really shitty copys of maps, floor plans, etc. It can be a tedious process…but sometimes it really beats trying to clean up a crappy scan.

cheers,
jj
"Karl Hiller" wrote in message
This is a case of "I’m not an expert; I just need to do this one thing with Photoshop."

I’m using 7.0 and I need to re-do the map of the two floors of the library where I work. I scanned in the old map, saved it as a TIFF, and painstakingly edited it bit-by-bit until the second floor was nice and clear. (The old map was numerous photocopy generations old and looked like crap.) I was using the Brush tool for this, and the Mode that is checked in the Image menu is "bitmap". The map is in black and white, and the Brush draws nice sharp-edged squares, just the way I want it to.
I don’t really want to do the first floor this way. The second floor is smaller and has less detail, and it took forever to redraw because I was working in the same layer — erasing and redrawing and erasing and redrawing. I decided to try my hand at layers: Take a copy of the second floor map, erase everything except the things that exist on both floors (external walls, stairs, etc.), and then add the scan of the first floor map as a transparent layer. Then, use the first floor scan as a guide for drawing the new map, and delete the layer when I’m done.
However, every single thing on the Layer menu is greyed out. I cannot add a layer. I have my second-floor map saved as a TIFF, and I tried saving it as a PSD, but I can’t add a layer either way. The only way I can add a layer is to change the image mode from Bitmap to Greyscale… And when I do that, the Brush tool refuses to draw the nice sharp black pixels that I want to use.

I either need to get a layer into my black-and-white bitmap, or I need to be able to draw non-fuzzy lines in the greyscale, layered map.
I’ve flipped through some books and hunted for an answer on the web, but turned up nothing. What am I missing?

thanks
KH
Karl Hiller
Jul 13, 2004
MArtin Chiselwitt wrote:
OK, you will not be able to edit layers in bitmap mode. You are correct that you have to convert to grayscale. Grayscale images are aliased or , as you put it , ‘fuzzy’.
I think what you need here is to research using vectors or paths. Use a program like Illustrator or similar vector drawing application. You will get nice crisp artwork every time that you can edit and scale to your hearts content. Vector artwork is ‘non-fuzzy’!!

hth you on your way

Thanks (also also thanks to jj who had a similar suggestion)…

Unfortunately this is a one-time project, and I don’t have Illustrator or any other software. Buying and learning Illustrator is really not an option.

It seems odd to me that Photoshop can’t do this thing, but I guess I’ll just roll with it and do my best.

thanks again

Karl Hiller wrote:

This is a case of "I’m not an expert; I just need to do this one thing with Photoshop."

I’m using 7.0 and I need to re-do the map of the two floors of the library where I work. I scanned in the old map, saved it as a TIFF, and painstakingly edited it bit-by-bit until the second floor was nice and clear. (The old map was numerous photocopy generations old and looked like crap.) I was using the Brush tool for this, and the Mode that is checked in the Image menu is "bitmap". The map is in black and white, and the Brush draws nice sharp-edged squares, just the way I want it to.
I don’t really want to do the first floor this way. The second floor is smaller and has less detail, and it took forever to redraw because I was working in the same layer — erasing and redrawing and erasing and redrawing. I decided to try my hand at layers: Take a copy of the second floor map, erase everything except the things that exist on both floors (external walls, stairs, etc.), and then add the scan of the first floor map as a transparent layer. Then, use the first floor scan as a guide for drawing the new map, and delete the layer when I’m done.
However, every single thing on the Layer menu is greyed out. I cannot add a layer. I have my second-floor map saved as a TIFF, and I tried saving it as a PSD, but I can’t add a layer either way. The only way I can add a layer is to change the image mode from Bitmap to Greyscale… And when I do that, the Brush tool refuses to draw the nice sharp black pixels that I want to use.

I either need to get a layer into my black-and-white bitmap, or I need to be able to draw non-fuzzy lines in the greyscale, layered map.
I’ve flipped through some books and hunted for an answer on the web, but turned up nothing. What am I missing?
A
arrooke
Jul 13, 2004
I’m using 7.0 and I need to re-do the map of the two floors of the library where I work. I scanned in the old map, saved it as a TIFF, and painstakingly edited it bit-by-bit until the second floor was nice and clear. (The old map was numerous photocopy generations old and looked like crap.) I was using the Brush tool for this, and the Mode that is checked in the Image menu is "bitmap". The map is in black and white, and the Brush draws nice sharp-edged squares, just the way I want it to.
I don’t really want to do the first floor this way. The second floor is smaller and has less detail, and it took forever to redraw because I was working in the same layer — erasing and redrawing and erasing and redrawing. I decided to try my hand at layers: Take a copy of the second floor map, erase everything except the things that exist on both floors (external walls, stairs, etc.), and then add the scan of the first floor map as a transparent layer. Then, use the first floor scan as a guide for drawing the new map, and delete the layer when I’m done.
However, every single thing on the Layer menu is greyed out. I cannot add a layer. I have my second-floor map saved as a TIFF, and I tried saving it as a PSD, but I can’t add a layer either way. The only way I can add a layer is to change the image mode from Bitmap to Greyscale… And when I do that, the Brush tool refuses to draw the nice sharp black pixels that I want to use.

I either need to get a layer into my black-and-white bitmap, or I need to be able to draw non-fuzzy lines in the greyscale, layered map.
I’ve flipped through some books and hunted for an answer on the web, but turned up nothing. What am I missing?

thanks

Karl,
It sounds as though you may have scanned your image as a greyscale. Not good. I believe from the sounds of things that you should be scanning as black & white, or line copy (same thing – different term). You may also have scanned at 72 ppi, which is screen resolution. This will give you the jaggies that you mention.
Scan as line copy at 600 ppi (pixels per inch . . . some scanner software erroneously calls this dpi). This should give you closer to your desired result. Using this scanning method, you can also increase the exposure (higher number). This will ‘burn out’ some of dirty paper look & light marks you don’t want.

As a new user you will notice at 600 ppi the image is humungous when viewed on screen. No worry. It will print correctly – try it.
Keith.
E
edjh
Jul 14, 2004
Karl Hiller wrote:
This is a case of "I’m not an expert; I just need to do this one thing with Photoshop."

I’m using 7.0 and I need to re-do the map of the two floors of the library where I work. I scanned in the old map, saved it as a TIFF, and painstakingly edited it bit-by-bit until the second floor was nice and clear. (The old map was numerous photocopy generations old and looked like crap.) I was using the Brush tool for this, and the Mode that is checked in the Image menu is "bitmap". The map is in black and white, and the Brush draws nice sharp-edged squares, just the way I want it to.
I don’t really want to do the first floor this way. The second floor is smaller and has less detail, and it took forever to redraw because I was working in the same layer — erasing and redrawing and erasing and redrawing. I decided to try my hand at layers: Take a copy of the second floor map, erase everything except the things that exist on both floors (external walls, stairs, etc.), and then add the scan of the first floor map as a transparent layer. Then, use the first floor scan as a guide for drawing the new map, and delete the layer when I’m done.
However, every single thing on the Layer menu is greyed out. I cannot add a layer. I have my second-floor map saved as a TIFF, and I tried saving it as a PSD, but I can’t add a layer either way. The only way I can add a layer is to change the image mode from Bitmap to Greyscale… And when I do that, the Brush tool refuses to draw the nice sharp black pixels that I want to use.

I either need to get a layer into my black-and-white bitmap, or I need to be able to draw non-fuzzy lines in the greyscale, layered map.
I’ve flipped through some books and hunted for an answer on the web, but turned up nothing. What am I missing?

thanks

Use the Pencil (under the Paintbrush).


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http://www.sover.net/~hannigan/edjh.html
Comics art for sale:
http://www.sover.net/~hannigan/batsale.html
PW
Pjotr Wedersteers
Jul 14, 2004
Karl Hiller wrote:
This is a case of "I’m not an expert; I just need to do this one thing with Photoshop."

I’m using 7.0 and I need to re-do the map of the two floors of the library where I work. I scanned in the old map, saved it as a TIFF, and painstakingly edited it bit-by-bit until the second floor was nice and clear. (The old map was numerous photocopy generations old and looked like crap.) I was using the Brush tool for this, and the Mode that is checked in the Image menu is "bitmap". The map is in black and white, and the Brush draws nice sharp-edged squares, just the way I want it to.

I don’t really want to do the first floor this way. The second floor is smaller and has less detail, and it took forever to redraw because I was working in the same layer — erasing and redrawing and erasing and redrawing. I decided to try my hand at layers: Take a copy of the second floor map, erase everything except the things that exist on both floors (external walls, stairs, etc.), and then add the scan of the first floor map as a transparent layer. Then, use the first floor scan as a guide for drawing the new map, and delete the layer when I’m done.

However, every single thing on the Layer menu is greyed out. I cannot add a layer. I have my second-floor map saved as a TIFF, and I tried saving it as a PSD, but I can’t add a layer either way. The only way I can add a layer is to change the image mode from Bitmap to Greyscale… And when I do that, the Brush tool refuses to draw the nice sharp black pixels that I want to use.

I either need to get a layer into my black-and-white bitmap, or I need to be able to draw non-fuzzy lines in the greyscale, layered map.
I’ve flipped through some books and hunted for an answer on the web, but turned up nothing. What am I missing?

thanks

In addition to what has already been said in this thread about scanning at higher resolution and choosing line mode rather than greyscale or worse -color- I think you will have to change image mode to RGB or greyscale once you’re done scanning: if the line mode scan clearly misses complete parts of the original, I think you may have to go back to greyscale scanning. Tradeof is the lines won’t be as crisp.

But instead of touching up manually I would guess you could have put some filters to good use. Since these drawings are rather high in contrast (I assume, which is risky coz’ it tends to make an ass out of u and me 😉 I expect you could quite easily enhance the contrast and get quite neat and crisp lines too. What does the pic look like when you select Image-Adjustments-Tresholds ? If not too many of the lines dissappear nor big blotches of black show up in the whites that may be a nice way to go. Using the Line and or Pens tool you can probably quite easily draw in the remaning parts. Another way is using Levels or curves and playing with the sliders there until you get something better.

HTH
Pjotr
KH
Karl Hiller
Jul 16, 2004
Again, thanks to everyone who replied.

Someone asked me the very basic question of, had I tried the Pen tool? TO which I said, what Pen tool? I had looked around the toolbar for a different tool when I discovered that the Brush was only drawing anti-aliased lines in greyscale, but, sadly, I didn’t know to right-click on the buttons for different options.

How embarassing.

On a side note, does everyone who posts here get email spam from directsoftwareconnection.com? According to older messages, they’re credit card scammers? Must make life here a little bit annoying…

cheers
Karl
A
arrooke
Jul 16, 2004
On a side note, does everyone who posts here get email spam from directsoftwareconnection.com? According to older messages, they’re credit card scammers? Must make life here a little bit annoying…
cheers
Karl

Karl,
Enter a fictitious reply email address in your newsreader properties. Even altering (add, take out) 1 or 2 letters should keep the spammer scanners away. Check some of the posters’ email addresses to see what I mean. Keith.

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