Proof Setup: Monitor RGB On or Off

AS
Posted By
Alan Smithee
Oct 5, 2005
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466
Replies
5
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Closed
When I go into Proof Setup and select Monitor RGB my images "cool down". I have to bump up the Red and Blue (in Photoshop) a bit to make them look like they look when Proof Setup is turned off. I’ve read previous posts that suggest that this drastic shift is the result of a bad monitor ICC profile. I’m having trouble believing this now that I have used two different color management systems to calibrate my monitor’s RGB AND BOTH cause this phenomena to appear on my system. I’m using a ViewSonic Pro Series monitor (Aperture Grill). I’ve used both an Optical Spyder and Gretag’s Eye systems to build a profile. They come within about one or two percent of each other after calibration, not enough to show the amount of shifting I’m seeing which is about 12-15 per cent in the Red channel and somewhat less in the blue. It seems my workflow on the color side demands I leave proof setup set to Monitor RGB. Any ideas as to what’s happening here? I’m still baffled. My understanding is that with Proof turned off I’m suppose to be seeing the profile corrected image. Why would photoshop need to show me a "corrected" image if I’ve already set the monitor’s RGB channels by hand with the aid of the colorometer? Thx.
TA
Timo Autiokari
Oct 5, 2005
"Alan Smithee" wrote:

When I go into Proof Setup and select Monitor RGB my images "cool down".

Are you sure that you use "Monitor RGB" and not "Windows RGB"? (Both the "Windows RGB" and "Macintosh RGB" options are faulty).

Assuming that the color management is OK, then when you proof to "Monitor RGB" what you get to see is how the RGB data of your image would appear on your monitor when that data is not altered (like if you’d save as BMP and then use a non-color-managed SW to view it). And therefore, this "test" only tells you that your working-space ICC profile does not match with the color-space of your color managed system monitor. Again, that was assuming that the color management is correctly set up.

have to bump up the Red and Blue (in Photoshop) a bit to make them look like they look when Proof Setup is turned off.

So, possibly your RGB working-space profile is AdobeRGB?

I’m having trouble believing this now that I have used two different color management systems to calibrate my monitor’s RGB AND BOTH cause this phenomena to appear on my system.

Even so, that could well be the case.

I’m using a ViewSonic Pro Series monitor (Aperture Grill). I’ve used both an Optical Spyder and Gretag’s Eye systems to build a profile.

You’d be _much_ better of with AdobeGamma. What kind of system gamma do you get here:
http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/evaluation/gamma_space/index.htm (evaluate using the Web browser, with the normal color-management enabled).

It seems my workflow on the color side demands I leave proof setup set to Monitor RGB.

No, there is some problem. In general, with photographs, there is no need to proof at all when the images go to Web (or for CRT viewing).

My understanding is that with Proof turned off I’m suppose to be seeing the profile corrected image.

Yes, that is so, you are seeing the colors from your RGB working-space correctly on your monitor.

Timo Autiokari
AS
Alan Smithee
Oct 5, 2005
Timo Autiokari wrote:
"Alan Smithee" wrote:

When I go into Proof Setup and select Monitor RGB my images "cool down".

Are you sure that you use "Monitor RGB" and not "Windows RGB"? (Both the "Windows RGB" and "Macintosh RGB" options are faulty).

Yes I’m going into Monitor RGB. If I select Windows RGB I would say the image looks desaturated, maybe flatter tonely.
Assuming that the color management is OK, then when you proof to "Monitor RGB" what you get to see is how the RGB data of your image would appear on your monitor when that data is not altered (like if you’d save as BMP and then use a non-color-managed SW to view it).
Exactly. Same photo in other applications looks exactly like the Monitor RGB proofing option.

And
therefore, this "test" only tells you that your working-space ICC profile does not match with the color-space of your color managed system monitor. Again, that was assuming that the color management is correctly set up.
My working space is Adobe RGB 1998. Does that mean I’m seeing the larger gamut in my normal non-proofed viewing?
have to bump up the Red and Blue (in Photoshop) a bit to make them look like they look when Proof Setup is turned off.

So, possibly your RGB working-space profile is AdobeRGB?
Yes AdobeRBG.
I’m having trouble believing this now that I have used two different color management systems to calibrate my monitor’s RGB AND BOTH cause this phenomena to appear on my system.

Even so, that could well be the case.
Could be, maybe. Hmm. I sure hope not though.
I’m using a ViewSonic Pro Series monitor (Aperture Grill). I’ve used both an Optical Spyder and Gretag’s Eye systems to build a profile.

You’d be _much_ better of with AdobeGamma. What kind of system gamma do you get here:
http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/evaluation/gamma_space/index.htm (evaluate using the Web browser, with the normal color-management enabled).

I have to run back to my other computer to answer this question….does Adobe Gamma generate a profile similar to the calibration systems?
It seems my workflow on the color side demands I leave proof setup set
to Monitor RGB.

No, there is some problem. In general, with photographs, there is no need to proof at all when the images go to Web (or for CRT viewing).

Agreed, but when going to everywhere else…
My understanding is that with Proof turned off I’m suppose to be seeing the profile corrected image.

Yes, that is so, you are seeing the colors from your RGB working-space correctly on your monitor.

OK but what good are these colors (AdobeRGB1998) to me if they don’t match: the web, my printer. It seems they’re only good for viewing images on "my" monitor and nobody elses.

Thank you very much for helping me to try and understand this Timo.
AS
Alan Smithee
Oct 5, 2005
You’d be _much_ better of with AdobeGamma. What kind of system gamma do you get here:
http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/evaluation/gamma_space/index.htm (evaluate using the Web browser, with the normal color-management enabled).

Pretty close to what I’ve targetted to: 2.2
W
Waldo
Oct 6, 2005
I have to run back to my other computer to answer this question….does Adobe Gamma generate a profile similar to the calibration systems?

No, because it cannot measure. Adobe Gamma is a tool that helps you getting a neutral gray and a maximum contrast. Profiling is required afterwards.

Waldo
TA
Timo Autiokari
Oct 6, 2005
Hi Alan,

Your system sounds to be in good order, this is what happens when AdobeRGB image data is shown in a non-color-managed system or non-color-managed software such as the Web browsers are.

It is the workflow that you need to alter and also the system setup.

For the workflow, there are several options, but mainly:

1) Disable the Photoshop color-management completely. I never recommend this, but it is one of the options.

2) Keep working in the AdobeRGB (or in an other much better RGB color-space) and publish the images to Web. Publishing to Web means:

a) create a copy of your original
b) convert the copy to nativePC RGB profile, you can find it here: http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/download/aim_profiles.zip
c) drop the copy down to 8-bit/c
d) save as JPG

For the system, if you calibrate it to gamma 2.2 then all those people on the Web who do not calibrate their systems and are using a computer with Windows operating system will see your images darker than how you see them on your gamma 2.2 system. So in all cases it is best to calibrate to gamma 2.5, that is the native gamma of CRT monitors that are connected to a computer that run Windows operating system.

Alan Smithee wrote:
My working space is Adobe RGB 1998. Does that mean I’m seeing the larger gamut in my normal non-proofed viewing?

No. You can only see the gamut that the display is capable to produce, even if you RGB data does cover a larger gamut. The display systems have about the gamut (phosphors set) that has the name Trinitron (this has nothing to do with the mask technology that has the same name).

does Adobe Gamma generate a profile similar to the calibration systems?

Generally no. Adobe gamma produce a very good profiles for CRT monitors AND it also calibrates your system gamma.

what good are these colors (AdobeRGB1998) to me if they don’t match: the web, my printer.

The benefit of a large gamut workging-spaces is that they store a wider range of color saturation. This is useful e.g. when printing to a wide gamut printer (those that expose photograhic paper). Also you can adjust the highly saturated colors in your large gamut working-space so that they will tranfer nicely into the small publishing space (like Web and inkjets).

Timo Autiokari

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