Sharpening

CB
Posted By
Colonel Blip
Oct 3, 2005
Views
1114
Replies
20
Status
Closed
Hello, All!

As I understand it, sharpening should always be the last step in workflow. When one has a psd file with several layers, should it be flattened and then sharpened or is there a preferred way while keeping the layers intact?

Thanks,
Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

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MH
Mike Hyndman
Oct 3, 2005
I don’t bother so much with the sharpening filters, maybe the unsharp mask, on occasion. I find that with the sort of images I tend to work with(restoration), the High pass filter gives better results. Copy a layer above your main image layer and apply the HP filter to it. Enlarge a part of the image, say the eye and then adjust the radius slider to achieve the desired result. You can then also experiment with different layer blending modes as well.
I haven’t noticed any difference in flattening before this application. HTH
MH

"Colonel Blip" wrote in message
Hello, All!

As I understand it, sharpening should always be the last step in workflow. When one has a psd file with several layers, should it be flattened and then sharpened or is there a preferred way while keeping the layers intact?

Thanks,
Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

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DD
Dave Du Plessis
Oct 3, 2005
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:26:50 -0500, "Colonel Blip" wrote:

Hello, All!

As I understand it, sharpening should always be the last step in workflow. When one has a psd file with several layers, should it be flattened and then sharpened or is there a preferred way while keeping the layers intact?
Thanks,
Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

—-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Hello Blip

Some people like doing a bit of sharpening during the process and finnish off with the final sharpening. I only sharpen as the very last function.
Not that it matters, but what do you use; smart sharpening or unsharp mask?

Dave
CB
Colonel Blip
Oct 3, 2005
Hello, DD!
You wrote on Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:20:58 +0200:

I normally would use either Unsharp mask or Smart Sharpen, but I don’t know where to apply it when I have 7 layers stacked on top of a background. Do I add another layer of some sort and do it there or flatten and do the resulting image.

Thanks,

Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

D> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:26:50 -0500, "Colonel Blip" D> wrote:

D> Hello Blip

D> Some people like doing a bit of sharpening during the process D> and finnish off with the final sharpening. I only sharpen as D> the very last function.
D> Not that it matters, but what do you use; smart sharpening D> or unsharp mask?

D> Dave

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CB
Colonel Blip
Oct 3, 2005
Hello, Mike!
You wrote on Mon, 3 Oct 2005 21:02:09 +0100:

I just saw one tutorial on HP filter so I may play with that. But at this stage (being a newbie, particularly using layers), I’m still wanting to know if one needs to flatten the image to apply an USM or add a layer above everything and then do USM?

Thanks,

Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

MH> I don’t bother so much with the sharpening filters, maybe the unsharp MH> mask, on occasion. I find that with the sort of images I tend to work MH> with(restoration), the High pass filter gives better results. MH> Copy a layer above your main image layer and apply the HP filter to it. MH> Enlarge a part of the image, say the eye and then adjust the radius MH> slider to achieve the desired result. You can then also experiment with MH> different layer blending modes as well.
MH> I haven’t noticed any difference in flattening before this application. MH> HTH
MH> MH

MH> "Colonel Blip" wrote in
MH> message ??>> Hello, All!

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DD
Dave Du Plessis
Oct 3, 2005
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:19:08 -0500, "Colonel Blip" wrote:

Hello, DD!
You wrote on Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:20:58 +0200:

I normally would use either Unsharp mask or Smart Sharpen, but I don’t know where to apply it when I have 7 layers stacked on top of a background. Do I add another layer of some sort and do it there or flatten and do the resulting image.

Thanks,

Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

D> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:26:50 -0500, "Colonel Blip" D> wrote:

D> Hello Blip

D> Some people like doing a bit of sharpening during the process D> and finnish off with the final sharpening. I only sharpen as D> the very last function.
D> Not that it matters, but what do you use; smart sharpening D> or unsharp mask?

D> Dave

I would have flatten it first:-)
In fact, that is what I do, that is why I say that
that is the very last thing I do.
Past weeks I have changed over working in RAW
and then, after the processing, I save it sharpened.

It is obvious that, if you open the JPG again for
alterations or add-ons, it become softer again after
some work is done on it, and I simply sharpen it again.

Reason for my last question is because I am still working on the ‘Unsharp Mask’ because it seem to be more simple
than ‘Smart Sharpenening’, which on its turn, is in reviews described as (maybe) the better solution.

It is midnight over here, going into the morning hours,
so I’ll see you’s in the comming evening.

Dave
FN
Flo Nelson
Oct 3, 2005
"Colonel Blip" wrote in message
CB> As I understand it, sharpening should always be the last step in CB> workflow. When one has a psd file with several layers, should it be CB> flattened and then sharpened or is there a preferred way while keeping CB> the layers intact?

I create a new layer at top, hold down alt on the PC, then go to Layer > Merge Visible. This creates a flattened layer but leaves the original layers intact. I then sharpen that layer. That’s the last step in my process.

Flo
CB
Colonel Blip
Oct 4, 2005
Hello, Flo!
You wrote on Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:41:52 GMT:

I see.

Thanks,

Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

FN> "Colonel Blip" wrote in
FN> message ??>>
FN> I create a new layer at top, hold down alt on the PC, then go to Layer

FN> layers intact. I then sharpen that layer. That’s the last step in my FN> process.

FN> Flo

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P
patrick
Oct 4, 2005
An advantage of shapening on a separate layer is that you cana then use the layer mask to mask out the sharpening effect on select areas, e.g. complexion areas (where you don’t want to sharpen blemishes or skin pores), background (which you want relatively blurred), etc.

Good luck! . . . . patrick
"Colonel Blip" wrote in message
Hello, Flo!
You wrote on Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:41:52 GMT:

I see.

Thanks,

Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

FN> "Colonel Blip" wrote in
FN> message ??>>
FN> I create a new layer at top, hold down alt on the PC, then go to Layer
FN> layers intact. I then sharpen that layer. That’s the last step in my FN> process.

FN> Flo

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CB
Colonel Blip
Oct 4, 2005
Hello, patrick!
You wrote on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:34:47 GMT:

What I was missing was the alt key to merge visible w/o flattening the image. Now that I know that I can see all kinds of possibilities. Keeping all of the alt, cntrl, shift and combination keys straight is a mind-blower when I’ve only had PS about 2 weeks now.

Thanks,

Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

p> An advantage of shapening on a separate layer is that you cana then use p> the layer mask to mask out the sharpening effect on select areas, e.g. p> complexion areas (where you don’t want to sharpen blemishes or skin p> pores), background (which you want relatively blurred), etc.

p> Good luck! . . . . patrick
p> "Colonel Blip" wrote in message
p> ??>> Hello, Flo!

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MG
m.golner
Oct 4, 2005
Colonel Blip wrote:
Hello, All!

As I understand it, sharpening should always be the last step in workflow. When one has a psd file with several layers, should it be flattened and then sharpened or is there a preferred way while keeping the layers intact?
Thanks,
Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

—-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Here’s a link with one man’s opinion. He’s generally highly regarded in the field.

creativepro.com – Out of Gamut: Thoughts on a Sharpening Workflow http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/20357.html
by Bruce Fraser
K
KatWoman
Oct 4, 2005
"Colonel Blip" wrote in message
Hello, patrick!
You wrote on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:34:47 GMT:

What I was missing was the alt key to merge visible w/o flattening the image. Now that I know that I can see all kinds of possibilities. Keeping all of the alt, cntrl, shift and combination keys straight is a mind-blower when I’ve only had PS about 2 weeks now.

you can always use the menus, (which have reminders of the shortcuts) Select all> edit>copy merged>paste
Thanks,

Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

p> An advantage of shapening on a separate layer is that you cana then use p> the layer mask to mask out the sharpening effect on select areas, e.g. p> complexion areas (where you don’t want to sharpen blemishes or skin p> pores), background (which you want relatively blurred), etc.
p> Good luck! . . . . patrick
p> "Colonel Blip" wrote in
message
p> ??>> Hello, Flo!

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DD
Dave Du Plessis
Oct 4, 2005
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:41:52 GMT, "Flo Nelson" wrote:

"Colonel Blip" wrote in message
CB> As I understand it, sharpening should always be the last step in CB> workflow. When one has a psd file with several layers, should it be CB> flattened and then sharpened or is there a preferred way while keeping CB> the layers intact?

I create a new layer at top, hold down alt on the PC, then go to Layer > Merge Visible. This creates a flattened layer but leaves the original layers intact. I then sharpen that layer. That’s the last step in my process.
Flo

thanx Flo; I tested it
and
made it a new standard pactise:-)

Dave
O
orljustin
Oct 4, 2005
Colonel Blip wrote:
Hello, All!

As I understand it, sharpening should always be the last step in workflow. When one has a psd file with several layers, should it be flattened and then sharpened or is there a preferred way while keeping the layers intact?
Thanks,
Colonel Blip.
E-mail:

Hi,

The first thing I do after opening the RAW file is to duplicate the original layer, and then unsharpMask that layer. This way, I can add other layers with masks to enhance or tone down the effect in parts of the image. This way, I don’t end up with a suprise at the end from unnoticed skin blemishes or other things.

oj
BV
Bart van der Wolf
Oct 4, 2005
"Flo Nelson" wrote in message
SNIP
Create a new layer at top, hold down alt on the PC, then go to Layer Merge Visible. This creates a flattened layer but leaves the original layers intact. I then sharpen that layer.
SNIP

Yes, that’ll allow to maintain the (adjustable) layers structure. However, turning that merged sharpening layer into Luminance Blending mode will also avoid chrominance aberrations.

Bart
WD
Walter Donavan
Oct 5, 2005
Let me preface this by saying that although I have used PS versions 5-7 (I currently use 7), I still don’t fully understand the pgm. I don’t think I ever will.

***

To me, sharpening is hit and miss. I tend to use Sharpen Edges first because I get generally good results with it. After that I tend to use Unsharp Mask, experimenting with various Amount % settings between 25% and 75-100%.

I leave the Radius at 1.0 and the Threshold at 0, repeatedly clicking the Preview to see what effect my proposed changes to the Amount % are having. This clicking has saved me many times from over-sharpening, because I can more readily see the over-sharpened artifacts when I keep clicking the preview. (My vision is not good.)

I may on occasion use both Sharpen Edges and Unsharp Mask, or just Unsharp Mask. Depends on my intuition, the phase of the moon, etc. 🙂 I don’t use Sharpen or Sharpen More: they just don’t work for me. They also seem too crude.

Generally I find, using my hit-and-miss techniques, that most images won’t accept much sharpening before I start seeing artifacts. Since I consider a slightly fuzzy image preferable to one with any artifacts, I stop at the first sign of artifacts. I also consider a subtle improvement, perhaps nearly unnoticeable, acceptable.

Another technique I apply (rarely) to images that *already* have artifacts is to apply a tiny amount of Gaussian Blur and *then* sharpen the image. That can rescue a few (unfortunately only a few) images.

When I sharpen, I pay close attention to the eyes and the individual loose hairs on the head. (Most of my work is with images of women.) If the woman is nude, the nipples also make excellent sharpening targets.

If I am involved with layers, which is but rarely, I will copy the image, flatten it (or select a group of layers), and sharpen away. That way I won’t mess with the original.

As is generally taught, I do all the other stuff first, and sharpen last.

Walterius,
Old, and still sharpening in Fort Lauderdale.
Self-taught (books, mainly), but I produce high-quality images that I like.
WD
Walter Donavan
Oct 5, 2005
Let me preface this by saying that although I have used PS versions 5-7 (I currently use 7), I still don’t fully understand the pgm. I don’t think I ever will.

***

To me, sharpening is hit and miss. I tend to use Sharpen Edges first because I get generally good results with it. After that I tend to use Unsharp Mask, experimenting with various Amount % settings between 25% and 75-100%.

I leave the Radius at 1.0 and the Threshold at 0, repeatedly clicking the Preview to see what effect my proposed changes to the Amount % are having. This clicking has saved me many times from over-sharpening, because I can more readily see the over-sharpened artifacts when I keep clicking the preview. (My vision is not good.)

I may on occasion use both Sharpen Edges and Unsharp Mask, or just Unsharp Mask. Depends on my intuition, the phase of the moon, etc. 🙂 I don’t use Sharpen or Sharpen More: they just don’t work for me. They also seem too crude.

Generally I find, using my hit-and-miss techniques, that most images won’t accept much sharpening before I start seeing artifacts. Since I consider a slightly fuzzy image preferable to one with any artifacts, I stop at the first sign of artifacts. I also consider a subtle improvement, perhaps nearly unnoticeable, acceptable.

Another technique I apply (rarely) to images that *already* have artifacts is to apply a tiny amount of Gaussian Blur and *then* sharpen the image. That can rescue a few (unfortunately only a few) images.

When I sharpen, I pay close attention to the eyes and the individual loose hairs on the head. (Most of my work is with images of women.) If the woman is nude, the nipples also make excellent sharpening targets.

If I am involved with layers, which is but rarely, I will copy the image, flatten it (or select a group of layers), and sharpen away. That way I won’t mess with the original.

As is generally taught, I do all the other stuff first, and sharpen last.

Walterius,
Old, and still sharpening in Fort Lauderdale.
Self-taught (books, mainly), but I produce high-quality images that I like.
WD
Walter Donavan
Oct 5, 2005
Sorry for the accidental double post.
J
JJSrock
Oct 5, 2005
Bart van der Wolf wrote:
"Flo Nelson" wrote in message
SNIP
Create a new layer at top, hold down alt on the PC, then go to Layer Merge Visible. This creates a flattened layer but leaves the original layers intact. I then sharpen that layer.
SNIP

Yes, that’ll allow to maintain the (adjustable) layers structure. However, turning that merged sharpening layer into Luminance Blending mode will also avoid chrominance aberrations.

Bart

Yes, I also create such a layer for sharpening. Yes, I also use Luminance Blending, or Fade to Luminosity after USM. However, I find this method comes with its costs:

1. creating such a layer significantly increases the file size.
2. once this layer is sharpened, by USM, e.g., and saved, you cannot
reopen the file and change the USM values. IOW, this layer does not act like a regular adjustment layer.
3. unlike a regular adjustment layer, you need to manually keep record of the sharpening values.
4. after sharpening such a layer, if you change any underlying layers, you’ll need to delete this layer and start over again.

Still it’s the best method I know, until Adobe supports USM, etc. in an adjustment layer.
J
JJSrock
Oct 5, 2005
Walterius wrote:
Let me preface this by saying that although I have used PS versions 5-7 (I currently use 7), I still don’t fully understand the pgm. I don’t think I ever will.

Few can claim they fully understand how all PS tools work.

To me, sharpening is hit and miss.

[snip]

Some images can be sharpened more than others. An inherent *perceived* sharpness in an image often trumps the best sharpening method.

As is generally taught, I do all the other stuff first, and sharpen last.

This Bruce Fraser guy thinks different:
http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/20357.html

Walterius,
Old, and still sharpening in Fort Lauderdale.
Self-taught (books, mainly), but I produce high-quality images that I like.

Yeah, just keep those nipples sharp.
WD
Walter Donavan
Oct 5, 2005
Yeah, just keep those nipples sharp.

I do, I do.

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