Comparing Illustrator, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro?

The deal breaker is the Operating System. To do the edits you want to make to PDFs you need the newest acrobat….and I don’t know if it will work on older systems. There are open source PDF programs…but I don’t know anything about them…lets see what other contribute.

"Fred" wrote in message

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here

I’m

becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, add a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need

a

program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

are

names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is

the

oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out

OK,

I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on the back!!
B:^)

Fred

"Fred" wrote in
news:gRNDc.13023$:

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here I’m becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, add a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need a program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around —
Illustrator,

….is the closest thing to what you are looking for. It will open and edit a fair percentage of PDF files.

There are limitations, sometimes severe, especially if Quark made the pdf file.

Photoshop

Unless it’s made in Photoshop, a PDF will be converted to pure pixels when opened by Photoshop. "Editing" will be brute force, i.e., clone out something and replace it.

This is sometimes useful – Photoshop will often rasterize a pdf that the best page layout program chokes on.

and Quark

Cannot do a thing but place a PDF, and only older ones.

Has anyone pointed out that you can make limited edits and check a whole bunch of stuff with Acrobat 6 Pro?

are names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE

That’s a problem. Most modern publishing software requires Win2K, sp2 or later.

and not a Mac

That’s not a problem.

(but I will NOT use a
Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is the oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Fred, I doubt you want to hear it, but I would recomend the Adobe Creative Suite. That is, a combination of InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat Pro. This is the only way you get close to what you want, and you get a mucho better page layout app in Indy. And you might be able to get a decent upgrade price if you own PageMaker legally.

Of course, you will have to upgrade your OS as well. Sorry, but it will involve some pain.

There you are Fred – it’s not the $500 solution you originally thought of but a $5,000 solution!

If OEM is your route wouldn’t it be worthwhile with Windows XP 64 bit OEM’ed with a reasonable real-world solution?

das B

ps – i prefer not to pat myself on the back but your message is good, very good…

dB

"Fred" wrote in message

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here

I’m

becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, add a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need

a

program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

are

names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is

the

oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out

OK,

I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on the back!!
B:^)

Fred

"bagal" wrote in message

There you are Fred – it’s not the $500 solution you originally thought of but a $5,000 solution!

If OEM is your route wouldn’t it be worthwhile with Windows XP 64 bit

OEM’ed

with a reasonable real-world solution?

das B

ps – i prefer not to pat myself on the back but your message is good, very good…

dB

"Fred" wrote in message

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here

I’m

becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these

guys

are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like

area

codes, add a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I

need

a

program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct

problems

with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

are

names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that

might

turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is

the

oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out

OK,

I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat

on

the back!!
B:^)

Fred

If you want control over PDF files you will have to use the full-version of Acrobat. I use Adobe Creative Suite Premium which come with Acrobat 6 Pro.

Acrobat 6 Pro gives you incredible control over pdfs but you have to make sure that when people send you pdfs that there are no security options on them in order for you to make the changes.

In order to do this you will have to spend the money.

I used PSP before changing to PS – PSP is a really a "poor mans" Photoshop. That’s cool but there is no comparision between the two.

Quark is a magazine/newspaper/newsletter layout program. Adobe’s equivelent is InDesign.

Illustrator is Adobe’s vector art program. All of the Adobe arts programs – GoLive, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat, ImageReady, Photoshop – are all interchangeable with each other. So, you can create text in Illustrator and finish it off in Photoshop, if you need, and save as a PDF for your clients to see and then upload it into InDesign for your magazine or GoLive for your web site or both.

Whoah Brooklyn – this is more than a poor man can stand

all that creativity and cross program linking

das B

If you want control over PDF files you will have to use the full-version

of

Acrobat. I use Adobe Creative Suite Premium which come with Acrobat 6 Pro.
Acrobat 6 Pro gives you incredible control over pdfs but you have to make sure that when people send you pdfs that there are no security options on them in order for you to make the changes.

In order to do this you will have to spend the money.

I used PSP before changing to PS – PSP is a really a "poor mans"

Photoshop.

That’s cool but there is no comparision between the two.
Quark is a magazine/newspaper/newsletter layout program. Adobe’s

equivelent

is InDesign.

Illustrator is Adobe’s vector art program. All of the Adobe arts

programs –

GoLive, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat, ImageReady, Photoshop – are all interchangeable with each other. So, you can create text in Illustrator

and

finish it off in Photoshop, if you need, and save as a PDF for your

clients

to see and then upload it into InDesign for your magazine or GoLive for

your

web site or both.

"bagal" wrote in message

Whoah Brooklyn – this is more than a poor man can stand

all that creativity and cross program linking

das B

The cross program linking is why Adobe did away with the version numbers. Photoshop CS (Creative Suite) is in actuality Photoshop 8. People wanted quicker and easier cross linking between their Adobe products. The only problem is the price tag for the full suite = there is a lighter version of CS Premium called CS Standard = I’m not sure of the difference. Of course you can still purchase the programs separately.

I really liked Paint Shop Pro 7 until I decided to get PS CS and now I won’t touch PSP again. Got kicked off their NG for supporting the enemy! 😉

If you want control over PDF files you will have to use the full-version

of

Acrobat. I use Adobe Creative Suite Premium which come with Acrobat 6

Pro.

Acrobat 6 Pro gives you incredible control over pdfs but you have to

make

sure that when people send you pdfs that there are no security options

on

them in order for you to make the changes.

In order to do this you will have to spend the money.

I used PSP before changing to PS – PSP is a really a "poor mans"

Photoshop.

That’s cool but there is no comparision between the two.
Quark is a magazine/newspaper/newsletter layout program. Adobe’s

equivelent

is InDesign.

Illustrator is Adobe’s vector art program. All of the Adobe arts

programs –

GoLive, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat, ImageReady, Photoshop – are all interchangeable with each other. So, you can create text in Illustrator

and

finish it off in Photoshop, if you need, and save as a PDF for your

clients

to see and then upload it into InDesign for your magazine or GoLive for

your

web site or both.

I really liked Paint Shop Pro 7 until I decided to get PS CS and now I won’t touch PSP again. Got kicked off their NG for supporting the enemy! 😉

Hmm. That’s interesting, because Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro are not competitors…at least in the way that Lamborghini and Chevy aren’t competitiors. the person who wants a Lamborghini Diablo is not going to buy a Chevy Cavalier instead, and vice versa.

Paint Shop Pro is not, and never will be, in the same league as Photoshop. PSP is aimed at the dedicated hobbyist and digital photography market, much like Photoshop Elements is–you know, the people who do not know (or care about) the difference between "spot color" and "process color," the people who don’t need or use color management, the people who don’t particularly want high-end prepress functionality.

A person who needs Photoshop’s prepress features won’t buy PSP, because it won’t do the job.

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Yeah – I hear what you say Tacit – but I still reckon there is a great big hole between PSE and PSCS

I’d be happy with full image processing of PSCS standard without the pro print part and -shock-horror- I am prepared to pay 10 bucks more than PSE prices for it 🙂

das B

"Tacit" wrote in message

I really liked Paint Shop Pro 7 until I decided to get PS CS and now I

won’t

touch PSP again. Got kicked off their NG for supporting the enemy! 😉

Hmm. That’s interesting, because Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro are not competitors…at least in the way that Lamborghini and Chevy aren’t competitiors. the person who wants a Lamborghini Diablo is not going to

buy a

Chevy Cavalier instead, and vice versa.

Paint Shop Pro is not, and never will be, in the same league as Photoshop.

PSP

is aimed at the dedicated hobbyist and digital photography market, much

like

Photoshop Elements is–you know, the people who do not know (or care

about) the

difference between "spot color" and "process color," the people who don’t

need

or use color management, the people who don’t particularly want high-end prepress functionality.

A person who needs Photoshop’s prepress features won’t buy PSP, because it won’t do the job.

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

"bagal" wrote in win.server.ntli.net:

There you are Fred – it’s not the $500 solution you originally thought of but a $5,000 solution!

If you’re referring to my message, it’s closer to $500. Pro CS upgrade was about $600 last I checked, and $150 for XP Pro.

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:07:37 GMT, "Brooklyn NYC" wrote:

I really liked Paint Shop Pro 7 until I decided to get PS CS and now I won’t touch PSP again. Got kicked off their NG for supporting the enemy! 😉

Nonsense. There’s plenty of NG regulars who own – and use – both.

Jackie

—
< o \"/ Don’t play cat and mouse with me! ( —@ ) ()-() < o /"\ Jackie Laderoute (o o) ************************************************************ *****/\o/\

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:17:00 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here I’m becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, add a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need a program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark are names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is the oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Someone I know was enquiring about the Scansoft package – http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec_Main.Entry17c?V1=641095 &PID=641095&PN=1&SP=10023&SID=2801&CUR=8 40&CID=152892&DSP=&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=112218000 0152892
or http://tinyurl.com/yqv5o if that breaks for you. Might do what you need, and claims to work on SE.

I haven’t used it myself, but they have comparison files available at http://www.scansoft.com/pdfconverter/demo/.

Jackie

—
< o \"/ Don’t play cat and mouse with me! ( —@ ) ()-() < o /"\ Jackie Laderoute (o o) ************************************************************ *****/\o/\

I personally would use Adobe InDesign for doing the layout, it can place the PDF ads in your newsletter. Both Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro are a bad choice for making newsletter. Also Illustrator is not suited, you can only edit a single page at the time and it doesn’t work with paragraph styles. InDesign has much more features for that kind of work.

As an alternative, you could look to Quark Express.

Waldo

"Waldo" wrote in message

I personally would use Adobe InDesign for doing the layout, it can place the PDF ads in your newsletter. Both Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro are a bad choice for making newsletter. Also Illustrator is not suited, you can only edit a single page at the time and it doesn’t work with paragraph styles. InDesign has much more features for that kind of work.
As an alternative, you could look to Quark Express.

Waldo

I agree. I use InDesign to do magazine layouts – which is what that program was created for, sort of a rival to Quark – and Illustrator for my text and art and PS for finishing art.

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:04:36 +0200, Waldo
wrote:

I personally would use Adobe InDesign for doing the layout, it can place the PDF ads in your newsletter. Both Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro are a bad choice for making newsletter. Also Illustrator is not suited, you can only edit a single page at the time and it doesn’t work with paragraph styles. InDesign has much more features for that kind of work.
As an alternative, you could look to Quark Express.

….but only if suicide is an option… 🙂

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

In article , Hecate wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:04:36 +0200, Waldo
wrote:
[…]

As an alternative, you could look to Quark Express.

…but only if suicide is an option… 🙂

Now that Quark is in India I quit the product. I don’t like talking to support techs who seem to have learned English from cheap American porno flics.

Thanks. I’ve got Acrobat 5.0 around here somewhere and never installed it. Is that late enough version?

"Gene Palmiter" wrote in message

The deal breaker is the Operating System. To do the edits you want to make to PDFs you need the newest acrobat….and I don’t know if it will work on older systems. There are open source PDF programs…but I don’t know anything about them…lets see what other contribute.

"Fred" wrote in message

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here

I’m

becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these

guys

are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like

area

codes, add a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I

need

a

program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct

problems

with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

are

names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that

might

turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is

the

oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out

OK,

I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat

on

the back!!
B:^)

Fred

"Fred" wrote in message

Thanks. I’ve got Acrobat 5.0 around here somewhere and never installed it. Is that late enough version?

Should be ok. The new version is 6.0

"Gene Palmiter" wrote in message

The deal breaker is the Operating System. To do the edits you want to

make

to PDFs you need the newest acrobat….and I don’t know if it will work

on

older systems. There are open source PDF programs…but I don’t know anything about them…lets see what other contribute.

"Fred" wrote in message

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version

of

Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around

here

I’m

becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these

guys

are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like

area

codes, add a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I

need

a

program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct

problems

with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and

Quark

are

names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that

might

turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think

is

the

oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use.

I

plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works

out

OK,

I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat

on

the back!!
B:^)

Fred

Waldo wrote:

As an alternative, you could look to Quark Express.

If you want to pay double the price of InDesign.

Stuart

"Stuart" wrote in message

Waldo wrote:

As an alternative, you could look to Quark Express.

If you want to pay double the price of InDesign.

Stuart

I have never used Quark but I’ve been using InDesign for a long time. Is there much of a difference between them?

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:01:42 -0500,
(one_of_many) wrote:

In article , Hecate wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:04:36 +0200, Waldo
wrote:
[…]

As an alternative, you could look to Quark Express.

…but only if suicide is an option… 🙂

Now that Quark is in India I quit the product. I don’t like talking to support techs who seem to have learned English from cheap American porno flics.

my last call for help to Quark was a disaster. not only did i receive the usual less-than-helpful, condescending attitude from their "tech support", but most of it was in a thick Indian accent that I couldnt understand much of.

I got the gist of what he was saying tho, it translated mostly into "Go F*ck yourself" which to me, loosely translated into "go buy Adobe InDesign"

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:31:10 GMT, "Brooklyn NYC" wrote:

"Stuart" wrote in message

Waldo wrote:

As an alternative, you could look to Quark Express.

If you want to pay double the price of InDesign.

Stuart

I have never used Quark but I’ve been using InDesign for a long time. Is there much of a difference between them?

\

I’m the exact reverse of you in experience, long time Quark, just started InDesign. The Adobe product seems infintely stronger and more versatile. Problem is of course, waiting for al the vendors and the rest of the industry, to accept it. Two out of my three service bureau printer guys dont have InDesign for PC. So I’m stuck sending them Quark files. Quark ruled the industry for years and years and everybody has it.

The only real "problem" with InDy I can see so far, is all the complicated transparency stuff it will do, will sometimes drive an imagesetter nuts. Flattening issues etc.

I have never used Quark but I’ve been using InDesign for a long time. Is there much of a difference between them?

With ID you’ll finish a project with your sanity intact.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

I’m the exact reverse of you in experience, long time Quark, just started InDesign. The Adobe product seems infintely stronger and more versatile. Problem is of course, waiting for al the vendors and the rest of the industry, to accept it. Two out of my three service bureau printer guys dont have InDesign for PC. So I’m stuck sending them Quark files. Quark ruled the industry for years and years and everybody has it.

The only real "problem" with InDy I can see so far, is all the complicated transparency stuff it will do, will sometimes drive an imagesetter nuts. Flattening issues etc.

You need to use a more up-to-date printer. Most have converted to a pdf workflow. ID makes beautiful PDFs.
Transparency etc. is an issue only if a printer hasn’t update his RIP software.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

On 30 Jun 2004 17:00:05 GMT, (LauraK) wrote:

I’m the exact reverse of you in experience, long time Quark, just started InDesign. The Adobe product seems infintely stronger and more versatile. Problem is of course, waiting for al the vendors and the rest of the industry, to accept it. Two out of my three service bureau printer guys dont have InDesign for PC. So I’m stuck sending them Quark files. Quark ruled the industry for years and years and everybody has it.

The only real "problem" with InDy I can see so far, is all the complicated transparency stuff it will do, will sometimes drive an imagesetter nuts. Flattening issues etc.

You need to use a more up-to-date printer. Most have converted to a pdf workflow. ID makes beautiful PDFs.
Transparency etc. is an issue only if a printer hasn’t update his RIP software.

i’ve thought about that. I’m not quite ready to do the full switch. I’m doing small jobs in Indy so I can see how it goes… the really big jobs i stay in quark for now, until i’m completely comfortable with Indy, and, confident in these printers ability to run my jobs from PDFs.

one problem I have, one of my clients often changes their mind after the job has been sent to the printer. text changes etc. The printers claim its easier for them to open the file and make changes, then to wait for a new PDF from me.

I see your point tho, not arguing at all.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

"LauraK" wrote in message

I have never used Quark but I’ve been using InDesign for a long time. Is there much of a difference between them?

With ID you’ll finish a project with your sanity intact.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

That’s good enough for me!

You need to use a more up-to-date printer. Most have converted to a pdf workflow. ID makes beautiful PDFs.
Transparency etc. is an issue only if a printer hasn’t update his RIP

software.

No, that’s not necessarily true; InDesign’s flattener in the wrong hands can create grief for anyone regardless of workflow.

An imagesetter is a raster-based, pixelmapped device; ultimately, PDF or PostScript both have to be separated and flattened before any film is laid. It makes no difference where in the workflow this happens; things can still go wrong.

Non-overprinting black and black that gets inappropriately converted to 4-color process are the two biggest problems I see with InDesign’s transparency effects, regardless of whether the workflow is PostScript or PDF.

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:13:00 -0400, howldog wrote:

my last call for help to Quark was a disaster. not only did i receive the usual less-than-helpful, condescending attitude from their "tech support", but most of it was in a thick Indian accent that I couldnt understand much of.

I got the gist of what he was saying tho, it translated mostly into "Go F*ck yourself" which to me, loosely translated into "go buy Adobe InDesign"

LOL! Last time I was involved with Quark, the one of the guys who was using it had a major problem. He called their support and after 24 hours…solved it himself and had to explain to Quark’s technical "support", in words of nor more than two syllables, exactly what was wrong and how to fix it. 😉

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:31:10 GMT, "Brooklyn NYC" wrote:

"Stuart" wrote in message

Waldo wrote:

As an alternative, you could look to Quark Express.

If you want to pay double the price of InDesign.

Stuart

I have never used Quark but I’ve been using InDesign for a long time. Is there much of a difference between them?

With Indy, you’ll get along with your project nicely, things will do what they’re supposed to do, you won’t have to install Xtras to get the simplest of jobs done and it won’t crash on you every time you breathe too heavily on your monitor screen. Quark, OTOH…..

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

(Tacit) wrote in
news::

You need to use a more up-to-date printer. Most have converted to a pdf workflow. ID makes beautiful PDFs.
Transparency etc. is an issue only if a printer hasn’t update his RIP

software.

No, that’s not necessarily true; InDesign’s flattener in the wrong hands can create grief for anyone regardless of workflow.

I concur, from experience. But both you and Laura are right, really; I find the issues vastly overblown and they become a real problem only in the hands of the inexperienced, generally with old tools.

Very much like the struggle to force the amazingly conservative industry to see how simple Acrobat really is to use. That round, fortunately, is pretty much won.

<snip>

Go here http://www.directsoftwareconnection.com

"Fred" wrote in message

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here

I’m

becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, add a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need

a

program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

are

names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is

the

oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out

OK,

I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on the back!!
B:^)

Fred

Go here http://www.directsoftwareconnection.com

Oh, God. It’s Art, back again and pimping his "perfect shareware" piracy business.

Perfect Shareware, in all its incarnations, is hosted by a company called Cove Software ("covesoft.com"), which used to host child pornography[1] and now hosts pirate sites and other criminal sites. Perfect Shareware is run by Art Schwartz, a convicted fraud artist. Pay for access and two things will happen:

1. You’ll be given no software, but only an outdated list of pirate boards that sell unlicensed copies of unregisterable software (most of which will already be shut down); and

2. Your credit card will be charged up on additional domain name registrations for "Perfect Shareware" — and if you complain, Art will threaten to "report" you for software piracy unless you keep your mouth shut.

So nice to see you’re still in "business," Art!

[1] http://www.preda.org/archives/2002/r02062101.html

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

hmmm – i’ll keep my $25 then?

das B

"Tacit" wrote in message

Go here http://www.directsoftwareconnection.com

Oh, God. It’s Art, back again and pimping his "perfect shareware" piracy business.

Perfect Shareware, in all its incarnations, is hosted by a company called

Cove

Software ("covesoft.com"), which used to host child pornography[1] and now hosts pirate sites and other criminal sites. Perfect Shareware is run by

Art

Schwartz, a convicted fraud artist. Pay for access and two things will

happen:

1. You’ll be given no software, but only an outdated list of pirate boards

that

sell unlicensed copies of unregisterable software (most of which will

already

be shut down); and

2. Your credit card will be charged up on additional domain name

registrations

for "Perfect Shareware" — and if you complain, Art will threaten to

"report"

you for software piracy unless you keep your mouth shut.
So nice to see you’re still in "business," Art!
[1] http://www.preda.org/archives/2002/r02062101.html

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Fear Tacit

Merci beacoup for the info – I always am a wee bit worried about website with no postal address

Das B

ps Tacit by name tacit by nature?

dB

"Tacit" wrote in message

Go here http://www.directsoftwareconnection.com

Oh, God. It’s Art, back again and pimping his "perfect shareware" piracy business.

Perfect Shareware, in all its incarnations, is hosted by a company called

Cove

Software ("covesoft.com"), which used to host child pornography[1] and now hosts pirate sites and other criminal sites. Perfect Shareware is run by

Art

Schwartz, a convicted fraud artist. Pay for access and two things will

happen:

1. You’ll be given no software, but only an outdated list of pirate boards

that

sell unlicensed copies of unregisterable software (most of which will

already

be shut down); and

2. Your credit card will be charged up on additional domain name

registrations

for "Perfect Shareware" — and if you complain, Art will threaten to

"report"

you for software piracy unless you keep your mouth shut.
So nice to see you’re still in "business," Art!
[1] http://www.preda.org/archives/2002/r02062101.html

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

mega-whoops – That should be Dear Tacit – dyslexic fingertips again

Same thing happens with Hello – I tend to miss off the ‘o’

dB

"bagal" wrote in message

Fear Tacit

Merci beacoup for the info – I always am a wee bit worried about website with no postal address

Das B

ps Tacit by name tacit by nature?

dB

"Tacit" wrote in message

Go here http://www.directsoftwareconnection.com

Oh, God. It’s Art, back again and pimping his "perfect shareware" piracy business.

Perfect Shareware, in all its incarnations, is hosted by a company

called

Cove

Software ("covesoft.com"), which used to host child pornography[1] and

now

hosts pirate sites and other criminal sites. Perfect Shareware is run by

Art

Schwartz, a convicted fraud artist. Pay for access and two things will

happen:

1. You’ll be given no software, but only an outdated list of pirate

boards

that

sell unlicensed copies of unregisterable software (most of which will

already

be shut down); and

2. Your credit card will be charged up on additional domain name

registrations

for "Perfect Shareware" — and if you complain, Art will threaten to

"report"

you for software piracy unless you keep your mouth shut.
So nice to see you’re still in "business," Art!
[1] http://www.preda.org/archives/2002/r02062101.html

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Tacit is a well know Kook, hacker and troll. Don’t believe anything he says. Just watch him go nuts with lots of replies.

"Tacit" wrote in message

Go here http://www.directsoftwareconnection.com

Oh, God. It’s Art, back again and pimping his "perfect shareware" piracy business.

Perfect Shareware, in all its incarnations, is hosted by a company called

Cove

Software ("covesoft.com"), which used to host child pornography[1] and now hosts pirate sites and other criminal sites. Perfect Shareware is run by

Art

Schwartz, a convicted fraud artist. Pay for access and two things will

happen:

1. You’ll be given no software, but only an outdated list of pirate boards

that

sell unlicensed copies of unregisterable software (most of which will

already

be shut down); and

2. Your credit card will be charged up on additional domain name

registrations

for "Perfect Shareware" — and if you complain, Art will threaten to

"report"

you for software piracy unless you keep your mouth shut.
So nice to see you’re still in "business," Art!
[1] http://www.preda.org/archives/2002/r02062101.html

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

hmmm this really helps my indecisiveness lol

🙂

"Dale" wrote in message

Tacit is a well know Kook, hacker and troll. Don’t believe anything he

says.

Just watch him go nuts with lots of replies.

"Tacit" wrote in message

Go here http://www.directsoftwareconnection.com

Oh, God. It’s Art, back again and pimping his "perfect shareware" piracy business.

Perfect Shareware, in all its incarnations, is hosted by a company

called

Cove

Software ("covesoft.com"), which used to host child pornography[1] and

now

hosts pirate sites and other criminal sites. Perfect Shareware is run by

Art

Schwartz, a convicted fraud artist. Pay for access and two things will

happen:

1. You’ll be given no software, but only an outdated list of pirate

boards

that

sell unlicensed copies of unregisterable software (most of which will

already

be shut down); and

2. Your credit card will be charged up on additional domain name

registrations

for "Perfect Shareware" — and if you complain, Art will threaten to

"report"

you for software piracy unless you keep your mouth shut.
So nice to see you’re still in "business," Art!
[1] http://www.preda.org/archives/2002/r02062101.html

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

bagal wrote:

hmmm this really helps my indecisiveness lol

🙂

If a site is offering software for a fraction of its normal price then it is pirated software, I took a quick look at that site suggested and there is no way in hell a legitimate version of Photoshop will cost you $24.95. It is a pirated software site, just looking at it makes me worried.

Just think if it looks to good to be true then it is. Tacit is right, this site is seriously dodgy. If you are looking for cheaper software try getting it from Amazon, it sells old and used software at very good prices.

Stuart

Stuart wrote:

bagal wrote:

hmmm this really helps my indecisiveness lol

🙂

If a site is offering software for a fraction of its normal price then it is pirated software, I took a quick look at that site suggested and there is no way in hell a legitimate version of Photoshop will cost you $24.95. It is a pirated software site, just looking at it makes me worried.
Just think if it looks to good to be true then it is. Tacit is right, this site is seriously dodgy. If you are looking for cheaper software try getting it from Amazon, it sells old and used software at very good prices.

But the site in question is a real lesson in how not to impress people. The only thing missing is a large Flash file – and midis or wavs you can’t turn off!.

—
John McWilliams

and the link to US State law

das B

ps Thanks for your replies – I think my $25 is safely tucked away beyond harm

dB

pps – I wonder who sells the most Pirates or Adobe?

dB

"John McWilliams" wrote in message

Stuart wrote:

bagal wrote:

hmmm this really helps my indecisiveness lol

🙂

If a site is offering software for a fraction of its normal price then it is pirated software, I took a quick look at that site suggested and there is no way in hell a legitimate version of Photoshop will cost you $24.95. It is a pirated software site, just looking at it makes me

worried.

Just think if it looks to good to be true then it is. Tacit is right, this site is seriously dodgy. If you are looking for cheaper software try getting it from Amazon, it sells old and used software at very good prices.

But the site in question is a real lesson in how not to impress people. The only thing missing is a large Flash file – and midis or wavs you can’t turn off!.

—
John McWilliams

Tacit is one of the more helpful, knowledgeable and prolific members of this newsgroup. FWIW he has my…uh.. tacit support.
Tom Nelson
Tom Nelson Photography
=======================================================
My ISP does not have an "x" in its name
=======================================================

In article <6oJFc.2567$>, Dale
wrote:

Tacit is a well know Kook, hacker and troll. Don’t believe anything he says. Just watch him go nuts with lots of replies.

In article <6oJFc.2567$>, Dale
wrote:

Tacit is a well know Kook, hacker and troll. Don’t believe anything he

says.

Just watch him go nuts with lots of replies.

You are terribly misinformed.

I for one am very grateful for Tacit’s message and hope he/she shares further insights and views.

I have saved $25 and not compromised credit card details to an online service with no declared address or contact details other than an email address & website URL

I’d be happy to buy tacit a pint anytime on the grounds I owe he or she

Well done m8!

das Bagal

"jjs" wrote in message

In article <6oJFc.2567$>, Dale
wrote:

Tacit is a well know Kook, hacker and troll. Don’t believe anything he

says.

Just watch him go nuts with lots of replies.

You are terribly misinformed.

<0> <0>

"John Goodman" wrote in message

Go here http://www.directsoftwareconnection.com

"Fred" wrote in message

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here

I’m

becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these

guys

are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like

area

codes, add a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I

need

a

program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct

problems

with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

are

names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that

might

turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is

the

oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out

OK,

I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat

on

the back!!
B:^)

Fred

guys – i’ve just ebay’ed and there is so much out there I am baffled *New* version 6 (oem without manual & box) is it true? does such a thing exist?

what can a poor guy do?

das B

"Tom Nelson" wrote in message

Tacit is one of the more helpful, knowledgeable and prolific members of this newsgroup. FWIW he has my…uh.. tacit support.
Tom Nelson
Tom Nelson Photography
=======================================================
My ISP does not have an "x" in its name
=======================================================

In article <6oJFc.2567$>, Dale
wrote:

Tacit is a well know Kook, hacker and troll. Don’t believe anything he

says.

Just watch him go nuts with lots of replies.

bagal wrote:

guys – i’ve just ebay’ed and there is so much out there I am baffled *New* version 6 (oem without manual & box) is it true? does such a thing exist?
what can a poor guy do?

das B

I would also be wary of buying software off ebay too. OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) products should only be sold in conjunction with a piece of hardware and I am not sure if Photoshop has ever been an OEM product (someone correct me if I am wrong!).

Go to a proper online retailer because the ‘New version 6 OEM’ you found could be from the same (or similar type of) person who runs that website mentioned a few posts back.

From what you said in an earlier post I think Paint Shop Pro or Elements will suit your needs just fine. Look on Amazon or something similar to see the prices, I don’t know where you live so I can’t really give you any other choices.

Stuart

Stuart – thank you for your reassurances, scuse me awhile I may need to pick up my rapidly deflated ego

PSP = OK
PSE = gimme a break
PSCS = the one for me – eventewllee

das B

PSCS is good, very ggod. Smart, very smart I don’t think I have discovered a more widely copied & pirated piece of software with prices going from

In article <ccjp7j$lj1$>,
Stuart wrote:

I would also be wary of buying software off ebay too. OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) products should only be sold in conjunction with a piece of hardware and I am not sure if Photoshop has ever been an OEM product (someone correct me if I am wrong!).

The first copy of Photoshop to arrive at my workplace, v2, was bundled with a Microtek scanner, if that’s what you mean by "OEM product" — but it *did* have complete manuals and came in a box, albeit one of plain cardboard unlike the retail package, reading "For bundles only: not to be sold separately".

—
Odysseus

Odysseus wrote:

The first copy of Photoshop to arrive at my workplace, v2, was bundled with a Microtek scanner, if that’s what you mean by "OEM product" — but it *did* have complete manuals and came in a box, albeit one of plain cardboard unlike the retail package, reading "For bundles only: not to be sold separately".

Yeah that is what I meant, but a lot of OEM products do not come with the hardcopy manuals but newer ones tend to come with a manual on the disc somewhere.

Stuart

My 30-day trial has 19 days left 🙁

tried PSP, tried PSE on a similar basis

I suppose I should look for a Version 2 OEM with upgrade path to PSCS?

das B

"Stuart" wrote in message

Odysseus wrote:

The first copy of Photoshop to arrive at my workplace, v2, was bundled with a Microtek scanner, if that’s what you mean by "OEM product" — but it *did* have complete manuals and came in a box, albeit one of plain cardboard unlike the retail package, reading "For bundles only: not to be sold separately".

Yeah that is what I meant, but a lot of OEM products do not come with the hardcopy manuals but newer ones tend to come with a manual on the disc somewhere.

Stuart

hmmmmm – i think i may have found a solution

if not a full solution at least a partial one

it goes by name of The Gimp

been using it for a couple of hours

The first few minutes were a bit twitchy but for *free* yes i will repeat that, for *free* this looks like PSCS without the pro print parts and a lots less connectivity between the various components and sub-group components

a nifty bit of kit for sure 🙂

das B

"Tacit" wrote in message

Go here http://www.directsoftwareconnection.com

Oh, God. It’s Art, back again and pimping his "perfect shareware" piracy business.

Perfect Shareware, in all its incarnations, is hosted by a company called

Cove

Software ("covesoft.com"), which used to host child pornography[1] and now hosts pirate sites and other criminal sites. Perfect Shareware is run by

Art

Schwartz, a convicted fraud artist. Pay for access and two things will

happen:

1. You’ll be given no software, but only an outdated list of pirate boards

that

sell unlicensed copies of unregisterable software (most of which will

already

be shut down); and

2. Your credit card will be charged up on additional domain name

registrations

for "Perfect Shareware" — and if you complain, Art will threaten to

"report"

you for software piracy unless you keep your mouth shut.
So nice to see you’re still in "business," Art!
[1] http://www.preda.org/archives/2002/r02062101.html

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:27:54 GMT, "bagal" wrote:

My 30-day trial has 19 days left 🙁

tried PSP, tried PSE on a similar basis

I suppose I should look for a Version 2 OEM with upgrade path to PSCS?

You need at least version 4.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:08:14 GMT, "bagal" wrote:

hmmmmm – i think i may have found a solution

if not a full solution at least a partial one

it goes by name of The Gimp

been using it for a couple of hours

The first few minutes were a bit twitchy but for *free* yes i will repeat that, for *free* this looks like PSCS without the pro print parts and a lots less connectivity between the various components and sub-group components
a nifty bit of kit for sure 🙂

The Gimp is good unless you have to do any serious printing. It’s not that it’s colour management bad, it’s just that it doesn’t really have any.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

yup agreed Hectate but that is really what I seek

I seek good image processing software

Some stuff introduces artefacting when processes are used (i don’t want to mention names – but you know what it is like. Run an algorithm and it does what you want where you want but also what you don’t want where it never occured it would?)

the big question IMHO is: why does the PSCS brandholder in policy & practice fund every 2-bit pirate (and some 2,000,000-bit pirates) in the known universe

FWIW losing pro print part is OK for me – I rate the color management facilities in The Gimp higher than similar features in PSCS This may be a trade off since PSCS has to observe pro print limitations

Great kit – if there are any The Gimp developers out there: well done! please do keep up the good work!

das B

"Hecate" wrote in message

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:08:14 GMT, "bagal" wrote:

hmmmmm – i think i may have found a solution

if not a full solution at least a partial one

it goes by name of The Gimp

been using it for a couple of hours

The first few minutes were a bit twitchy but for *free* yes i will

repeat

that, for *free* this looks like PSCS without the pro print parts and a

lots

less connectivity between the various components and sub-group components
a nifty bit of kit for sure 🙂

The Gimp is good unless you have to do any serious printing. It’s not that it’s colour management bad, it’s just that it doesn’t really have any.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

See
news:comp.graphics.apps.gimp

yes thank you 🙂

as a parting shot how’s about this:

as brandholders are aware & have prior knowlwdge that pirate copies & pirate traders (some of which are repeatedly ID’ed as trading in pirated software) and seek not to actively pursue with a view to eradicating pirate software then ipso facto they are actively supporting pirated software and it may be interpretted as an informal extension to marketing practice & policies

das B

"RSD99" wrote in message

See
news:comp.graphics.apps.gimp

hmmm – it looks as if I may have frightened people – ne’er mind

what would be nice to see is the brandholder being "encouraged" to provide full support and full product to purchasers of pirated software

That really would IMHO stop the piracy in a very short time 🙂

Artie t/a das B

"bagal" wrote in message

yes thank you 🙂

as a parting shot how’s about this:

as brandholders are aware & have prior knowlwdge that pirate copies &

pirate

traders (some of which are repeatedly ID’ed as trading in pirated

software)

and seek not to actively pursue with a view to eradicating pirate software then ipso facto they are actively supporting pirated software and it may

be

interpretted as an informal extension to marketing practice & policies
das B

"RSD99" wrote in message

See
news:comp.graphics.apps.gimp

In article <ccjp7j$lj1$>, Stuart
wrote:

bagal wrote:

guys – i’ve just ebay’ed and there is so much out there I am baffled *New* version 6 (oem without manual & box) is it true? does such a thing exist?
what can a poor guy do?

das B

I would also be wary of buying software off ebay too. OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) products should only be sold in conjunction with a piece of hardware and I am not sure if Photoshop has ever been an OEM product (someone correct me if I am wrong!).

Photoshop was bundled as an OEM version with some scanners many years ago (I think we stopped that around version 5.0). Today it is only bundled as the full package, and OEM is the same as "pirated".

Chris

Adobe does actively pursue, shut down, and prosecute pirates. But there are a lot of pirates out there.

If you find someone pirating Adobe products, notify
and they’ll follow up on it. (make sure to include full headers from email)

Chris

In article <rHhIc.322$>, bagal
wrote:

yes thank you 🙂

as a parting shot how’s about this:

as brandholders are aware & have prior knowlwdge that pirate copies & pirate traders (some of which are repeatedly ID’ed as trading in pirated software) and seek not to actively pursue with a view to eradicating pirate software then ipso facto they are actively supporting pirated software and it may be interpretted as an informal extension to marketing practice & policies
das B

"RSD99" wrote in message

See
news:comp.graphics.apps.gimp

Hiya

I read somewhere that about 40% of software in use is pirated. In some countries it is estimated nearer 80%

Sez it all m8

Artie

"Chris Cox" wrote in message

In article <ccjp7j$lj1$>, Stuart
wrote:

bagal wrote:

guys – i’ve just ebay’ed and there is so much out there I am baffled

*New*

version 6 (oem without manual & box) is it true? does such a thing

exist?

what can a poor guy do?

das B

I would also be wary of buying software off ebay too. OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) products should only be sold in conjunction with a piece of hardware and I am not sure if Photoshop has ever been an OEM product (someone correct me if I am wrong!).

Photoshop was bundled as an OEM version with some scanners many years ago (I think we stopped that around version 5.0). Today it is only bundled as the full package, and OEM is the same as "pirated".
Chris

Adobe does actively pursue, shut down, and prosecute pirates. But there are a lot of pirates out there.

If you find someone pirating Adobe products, notify
and they’ll follow up on it. (make sure to include full headers from email)

I’ve sent about two dozen piracy reports–forwards of emails offering "OEM" software–in the last couple of months, with no acknowledgemet. it might be nice if Adobe would acknowledge reports sent to the piracy@ address.

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

I was and am surprised at the volume of pirated software freely available.

I have tried to reconcile that with past & present practices of the various organisations out there dedicated to preventing software piracy. IMHO not only are those practices not containing the situation but (IMHO) are actually contributing to it.

I could rabbit on …

Artie

"Tacit" wrote in message

Adobe does actively pursue, shut down, and prosecute pirates. But there are a lot of pirates out there.

If you find someone pirating Adobe products, notify
and they’ll follow up on it. (make sure to include full headers from email)

I’ve sent about two dozen piracy reports–forwards of emails offering

"OEM"

software–in the last couple of months, with no acknowledgemet. it might

be

nice if Adobe would acknowledge reports sent to the piracy@ address.

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

I was and am surprised at the volume of pirated software freely available.

Or available for a price.

At the moment, my inbox is being flooded with spam advertising "OEM" copies of Windows, Photoshop, AutoCAD, and other programs for $80 each. The spam is originating from compromised (virus-infected) servers all over the place; the spamvertised Web sites selling the pirate software are hosted in Brazil, and are using a credit-card transaction processor hosted elsewhere in Brazil which connects to servers in Russia or Lithuania. So, needless to say, not only is the software being sold, but there’s no telling if you’ll even receive anything at all of you give these guys your credit card number…

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Yeh – I know what you mean. It looks too well orchestrated, too well organised with too much dosh to be made.

My worry is that the level of returns may be sufficient to sway people from integrity into a rather murkier world with all the impact on society Honesty equating with poverty and opportunism with untold wealth. Poor souls – they must really have a jaundiced view of wealth creation. Hey-ho

In another newsgroup there is talk of bringing kit in from lower taxation regions not realising that it means "smuggling"

Artie

"Tacit" wrote in message

I was and am surprised at the volume of pirated software freely

available.

Or available for a price.

At the moment, my inbox is being flooded with spam advertising "OEM"

copies of

Windows, Photoshop, AutoCAD, and other programs for $80 each. The spam is originating from compromised (virus-infected) servers all over the place;

the

spamvertised Web sites selling the pirate software are hosted in Brazil,

and

are using a credit-card transaction processor hosted elsewhere in Brazil

which

connects to servers in Russia or Lithuania. So, needless to say, not only

is

the software being sold, but there’s no telling if you’ll even receive

anything

at all of you give these guys your credit card number…
—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Chris Cox wrote:

In article <ccjp7j$lj1$>, Stuart
wrote:

bagal wrote:

guys – i’ve just ebay’ed and there is so much out there I am baffled *New* version 6 (oem without manual & box) is it true? does such a thing exist?
what can a poor guy do?

das B

I would also be wary of buying software off ebay too. OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) products should only be sold in conjunction with a piece of hardware and I am not sure if Photoshop has ever been an OEM product (someone correct me if I am wrong!).

Photoshop was bundled as an OEM version with some scanners many years ago (I think we stopped that around version 5.0). Today it is only bundled as the full package, and OEM is the same as "pirated".
Chris

Cheers for clearing that up.

Stuart

Arte Phacting wrote:

Hiya

I read somewhere that about 40% of software in use is pirated. In some countries it is estimated nearer 80%

Sez it all m8

Source being ? Software producers ?

I think it may have been CEO at HP plus some press releases at the time

Try a browse for Adobe Photoshop at an ebay near you Maybe another browse of Office 2003? Then chack creative suite

After wading through what may be 20 – 30 online pages report back here with how many genuine articles and how many less than genuine articles you found

Artie Phakting 🙂

I eagerly anticipate your earliest response

A

"For example John Smith" wrote in message

Arte Phacting wrote:

Hiya

I read somewhere that about 40% of software in use is pirated. In some countries it is estimated nearer 80%

Sez it all m8

Source being ? Software producers ?

I read somewhere that about 40% of software in use is pirated. In some countries it is estimated nearer 80%

Sez it all m8

Source being ? Software producers ?

I’d also like to know what kind of software they’re talking about…home productivity software? Office software? Professional software (eg, the software used in prepress, video editing, CAD)?

In my experience, the rates of software piracy in the prepress industry are remarkably low–probably less than 2%–for three reasons: first, much of the high-end software (imposition, RIP, trapping, and so on) is dongle-protected; second, because the price of the software, even at thousands of dollars a seat, is insignificant next to the cost of imagesetting equipment and employees and other expenses, and insignificant next to the amount of money the software generates for the business; and third, because when your business relies on the software, the software is actually less important than the support.

If you’re using software that oyur business absolutely must have in order to function, if you encounter a problem, you want the software vendor’s support, and you want it *right* *now*. Being down for an extra hour because you couldn’t get support and oyu had to solve the problem for yourself completely demolishes any money you "saved" because you bootlegged the software. Being down for a *day* because you couldn’t get support costs you so much freaking money that the price of the software is a pittance compared to what you’ve lost.

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Yeh – I think you nicely summed up the consequence to business of buying pirated software

I think you touched on something that may just prevent PSE ever getting closer to PSCS too – support. Making PSE a bit more complicated might may? generate ginormous support requests.

How many times do you see it here? I mean read the manual, know your Toolbars sort of stuff.

Do I have to get a wider desk coz the mouse is at the edge of the desk and I still can’t reach the button I want to click on?

I am rapidly seeing why PSCS and PSE may never intersect in all but the most basic and elementary instructions sets

Artie

BTW – have u discovered Picasa? Free from Google I am pretty impressed with it. Originally, after installing I was a bit: Hey! What’s it doing now. I think I have it for keeps now

A

"Tacit" wrote in message

I read somewhere that about 40% of software in use is pirated. In some countries it is estimated nearer 80%

Sez it all m8

Source being ? Software producers ?

I’d also like to know what kind of software they’re talking about…home productivity software? Office software? Professional software (eg, the

software

used in prepress, video editing, CAD)?

In my experience, the rates of software piracy in the prepress industry

are

remarkably low–probably less than 2%–for three reasons: first, much of

the

high-end software (imposition, RIP, trapping, and so on) is

dongle-protected;

second, because the price of the software, even at thousands of dollars a

seat,

is insignificant next to the cost of imagesetting equipment and employees

and

other expenses, and insignificant next to the amount of money the software generates for the business; and third, because when your business relies

on the

software, the software is actually less important than the support.
If you’re using software that oyur business absolutely must have in order

to

function, if you encounter a problem, you want the software vendor’s

support,

and you want it *right* *now*. Being down for an extra hour because you couldn’t get support and oyu had to solve the problem for yourself

completely

demolishes any money you "saved" because you bootlegged the software.

Being

down for a *day* because you couldn’t get support costs you so much

freaking

money that the price of the software is a pittance compared to what you’ve lost.

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Did the power cut interupt your search?

Artie

"For example John Smith" wrote in message

Arte Phacting wrote:

Hiya

I read somewhere that about 40% of software in use is pirated. In some countries it is estimated nearer 80%

Sez it all m8

Source being ? Software producers ?

It looks like the power cut has not beed repaired yet

Have we to wait or has "For example John Smith" conceded defeat already?

Artie

"For example John Smith" wrote in message

Arte Phacting wrote:

Hiya

I read somewhere that about 40% of software in use is pirated. In some countries it is estimated nearer 80%

Sez it all m8

Source being ? Software producers ?

Arte Phacting wrote:

It looks like the power cut has not beed repaired yet

Have we to wait or has "For example John Smith" conceded defeat already?

Artie

"For example John Smith" wrote in message

Arte Phacting wrote:

Hiya

I read somewhere that about 40% of software in use is pirated. In some countries it is estimated nearer 80%

Sez it all m8

Source being ? Software producers ?

O Artie, I know there are tons of searches leading to pirated products. I did not dispute that. All I am saying is I have the tendency to mistrust these figures, as they are rarely uttered by people other than those who earn a living off of the very same thing, directly or indirectly. It’s like with the music industry whining about mp3 downloading. While it does exist, the relation between downloading music and the decline in cd sales has on many occasion (when truely studied) proven much more complex than appears at face value. It’s called politics. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for purchasing software. Since I haven’t got much to spend i do as much as possible on my Linux box which still is fully free and open source, but for the nvidia drivers on them and I believe some MS fonts. Still baffled why YaST on Suse offered these in a download… And I have spent quite some years in the IT business at managerial level, and I have seen and fought piracy, intended and unintended. I just don’t think the actual figures are as high as you (or that HP fellow) stated. But we probably agree on the idea that every 1% is one too many. I’m still hoping software prices will drop on popular and good software like PS since the GIMP just doesn’t cut it yet. Maybe if it’s no longer possible to crack it (Palladium/Fritz appears to have at least a positive impact on that aspect, I am not sure I like all the other implications) and companies can stop spending cash on piracy-hunts there will be a more healthy competition and beter pricing (for us – the consumers). But honestly I expect the opposite to happen sooner, as the Palladium/Fritz compatibility will cost big bucks so even more small developing companies will be thrown off the map. But it sure is going to be an interesting future!

No hard feelings by the way, I just wanted to know!
Pjotr (who is the same as For Example John Smith, but that’s on a different newsserver, since my regular seems to fail on me)

Groovie Pjotr

I may have sounded a bit strong – apologies

Arty

"Pjotr Wedersteers" wrote in message

Arte Phacting wrote:

It looks like the power cut has not beed repaired yet

Have we to wait or has "For example John Smith" conceded defeat already?

Artie

"For example John Smith" wrote in message

Arte Phacting wrote:

Hiya

I read somewhere that about 40% of software in use is pirated. In some countries it is estimated nearer 80%

Sez it all m8

Source being ? Software producers ?

O Artie, I know there are tons of searches leading to pirated products. I did not dispute that. All I am saying is I have the tendency to mistrust these figures, as they are rarely uttered by people other than those who earn a living off of the very same thing, directly or indirectly. It’s

like

with the music industry whining about mp3 downloading. While it does

exist,

the relation between downloading music and the decline in cd sales has on many occasion (when truely studied) proven much more complex than appears

at

face value. It’s called politics. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for purchasing software. Since I haven’t got much to spend i do as much as possible on my Linux box which still is fully free and open source, but

for

the nvidia drivers on them and I believe some MS fonts. Still baffled why YaST on Suse offered these in a download… And I have spent quite some years in the IT business at managerial level, and I have seen and fought piracy, intended and unintended. I just don’t think the actual figures are as high as you (or that HP fellow) stated. But we probably agree on the

idea

that every 1% is one too many. I’m still hoping software prices will drop

on

popular and good software like PS since the GIMP just doesn’t cut it yet. Maybe if it’s no longer possible to crack it (Palladium/Fritz appears to have at least a positive impact on that aspect, I am not sure I like all

the

other implications) and companies can stop spending cash on piracy-hunts there will be a more healthy competition and beter pricing (for us – the consumers). But honestly I expect the opposite to happen sooner, as the Palladium/Fritz compatibility will cost big bucks so even more small developing companies will be thrown off the map. But it sure is going to

be

an interesting future!

No hard feelings by the way, I just wanted to know!
Pjotr (who is the same as For Example John Smith, but that’s on a

different

newsserver, since my regular seems to fail on me)

Arty Phacting wrote:

Groovie Pjotr

I may have sounded a bit strong – apologies

Arty

Thanks Arty, but no offense taken! After all, usenet lends itself for fierce postulation.
Well, enough mutual suckup I’d say! Enjoy!
Pjotr

Groovio!

Arty

"Pjotr Wedersteers" wrote in message

Arty Phacting wrote:

Groovie Pjotr

I may have sounded a bit strong – apologies

Arty

Thanks Arty, but no offense taken! After all, usenet lends itself for

fierce

postulation.
Well, enough mutual suckup I’d say! Enjoy!
Pjotr

Fred: I know your post is more than two months old, but just in case information can still help you, I offer this suggestion:

Try use a DTP programme. InDesign is good for PDF manipulation. Also, a programme called Pagestream is one you have never heard of, but is actually pretty good, is cheap (relatively) and does PDF as well.

You can learn more about it here: http://www.grasshopperllc.com/.