Comparing Illustrator, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro?

F
Posted By
Fred
Jun 28, 2004
Views
550
Replies
18
Status
Closed
Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here I’m becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need a program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark are names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is the oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on the back!!

B:^)

Fred

How to Master Sharpening in Photoshop

Give your photos a professional finish with sharpening in Photoshop. Learn to enhance details, create contrast, and prepare your images for print, web, and social media.

XT
xalinai_Two
Jun 28, 2004
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:10:29 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here I’m becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need a program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark are names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is the oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

What you need is a mostly vector oriented program that understands PDF, keeps the vector information as vector information and can save PDF files.

You will find part of those abilities in Illustrator but Adobe will try to sell Acrobat too.

You can try and get the Corel Graphics Suite – Versions 11 and 12 are quite good with PDF import and conversion into editable elements and their PDF export isn’t too bad.

Version 11 is available for about 100 Euros here.

PSP is not recommended for this kind of task as it has no PDF export and has a tendency to convert things into raster data.

Michael
B
bagal
Jun 28, 2004
There you are Fred – it’s not the $500 solution you originally thought of but a $5,000 solution!

If OEM is your route wouldn’t it be worthwhile with Windows XP 64 bit OEM’ed with a reasonable real-world solution?

das B

ps – i prefer not to pat myself on the back but your message is good, very good…

dB

"Fred" wrote in message
Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here
I’m
becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need
a
program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark
are
names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is
the
oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on the back!!

B:^)

Fred

F
Fred
Jul 4, 2004
Thanks very much! More of our advertisers seem to be using Illustrator, so I’ll look into getting that. What is the oldest version of Illustrator that you still see around?

"Xalinai" wrote in message
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:10:29 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here
I’m
becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these
guys
are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need
a
program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct
problems
with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark
are
names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that
might
turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is
the
oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

What you need is a mostly vector oriented program that understands PDF, keeps the vector information as vector information and can save PDF files.

You will find part of those abilities in Illustrator but Adobe will try to sell Acrobat too.

You can try and get the Corel Graphics Suite – Versions 11 and 12 are quite good with PDF import and conversion into editable elements and their PDF export isn’t too bad.

Version 11 is available for about 100 Euros here.

PSP is not recommended for this kind of task as it has no PDF export and has a tendency to convert things into raster data.

Michael
F
Fred
Jul 4, 2004
"bagal" wrote in message
There you are Fred – it’s not the $500 solution you originally thought of but a $5,000 solution!

If OEM is your route wouldn’t it be worthwhile with Windows XP 64 bit
OEM’ed
with a reasonable real-world solution?

Might be, but I’m trying to steer clear of XP and all other Microsoft stuff where graphics are concerned. I’m not a MS-hater — just that 100% of everyone in the graphics industry I deal with use Adobe, Mac’s, etc., and I want to avoid compatibility issues down the road. Probably will end up getting a Mac later on this year.
F
Fred
Jul 4, 2004
By the way…. how are Illustrator and Photoshop different from each other. Are they competing products or, if not, how is each one best used?
XT
xalinai_Two
Jul 4, 2004
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:07:16 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

Thanks very much! More of our advertisers seem to be using Illustrator, so I’ll look into getting that. What is the oldest version of Illustrator that you still see around?

You do not have that effect of dramatically falling prices for older versions with Adobe products. They seem to have a policy to re-stock their dealers with the new versions, taking back all the older ones.

I know almost no person who works with the current Corel product – everybody seems to be at least one number behind. Adobe users on the other hand seem wait for the second or third upgrade offer (not the pre-registration or the first regular offer but the following one) as this is usually the cheapest version you can get in time.

Michael

"Xalinai" wrote in message
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:10:29 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here
I’m
becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these
guys
are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need
a
program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct
problems
with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark
are
names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that
might
turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is
the
oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

What you need is a mostly vector oriented program that understands PDF, keeps the vector information as vector information and can save PDF files.

You will find part of those abilities in Illustrator but Adobe will try to sell Acrobat too.

You can try and get the Corel Graphics Suite – Versions 11 and 12 are quite good with PDF import and conversion into editable elements and their PDF export isn’t too bad.

Version 11 is available for about 100 Euros here.

PSP is not recommended for this kind of task as it has no PDF export and has a tendency to convert things into raster data.

Michael

XT
xalinai_Two
Jul 4, 2004
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:18:05 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

By the way…. how are Illustrator and Photoshop different from each other. Are they competing products or, if not, how is each one best used?

Photoshop is a raster image editor while Illustrator is a vector image editor.

Adobe keeps their ability to work in each others field limited enough that you need both if you work in both areas.

Michael
N
newsposter
Jul 6, 2004
Fred, there are any number of freeware/shareware LDF editors available on the net. A basic search of google brings up dozens.

Additionally, there is a pretty noisy thread among active OpenOffice developers over incorporating PDF editing capabilities in addition to the present PDF creation/conversion stuff.

"Fred" …
Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here I’m becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need a program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark are names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is the oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on the back!!

B:^)

Fred
JT
Jim Thompson
Jul 6, 2004
On 6 Jul 2004 08:00:13 -0700, (chuck) wrote:

Fred, there are any number of freeware/shareware LDF editors available on the net. A basic search of google brings up dozens.

Additionally, there is a pretty noisy thread among active OpenOffice developers over incorporating PDF editing capabilities in addition to the present PDF creation/conversion stuff.
[snip]

Hi Chuck, Where can I find out more about PDF editing? Right now I resort to printing to a PS file, edit there, then distill.

…Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC’s and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
N
newsposter
Jul 7, 2004
Google is full of references and shareware/freeware for PDF editing.

Jim Thompson …
On 6 Jul 2004 08:00:13 -0700, (chuck) wrote:

Fred, there are any number of freeware/shareware LDF editors available on the net. A basic search of google brings up dozens.

Additionally, there is a pretty noisy thread among active OpenOffice developers over incorporating PDF editing capabilities in addition to the present PDF creation/conversion stuff.
[snip]

Hi Chuck, Where can I find out more about PDF editing? Right now I resort to printing to a PS file, edit there, then distill.
…Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC’s and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
F
Fred
Jul 7, 2004
Michael —
Another stupid question — can you give me an example of what is a raster image and what is a vector image?
Fred

"Xalinai" wrote in message
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:18:05 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

By the way…. how are Illustrator and Photoshop different from each
other.
Are they competing products or, if not, how is each one best used?

Photoshop is a raster image editor while Illustrator is a vector image editor.
NC
Nik Coughin
Jul 7, 2004
Fred wrote:
Michael —
Another stupid question — can you give me an example of what is a raster image and what is a vector image?
Fred

Well, I’m not Michael, but…

Raster image:
http://scv.bu.edu/Tutorials/ImageFiles/image101.html

Vector image (near the bottom):
http://docs.kde.org/en/HEAD/koffice/kword/glossary.html

An oversimplification would be
raster=bitmap, vector=clipart.
X
Xalinai
Jul 7, 2004
Fred wrote:

Michael —
Another stupid question — can you give me an example of what is a raster image and what is a vector image?
Fred

A raster image is a rectangular arrangement of pixels of the same color depth. There is no relation between the colors of neighbouring pixels, each color value is the result of a sample (scanner, camera) or of artistic activity by the user (painting, adding text, applying effects). Stored image information consists of pixel data only.

A vector image is a list of commands to the appropriate program. The commands include the definition of the drawing area, the position of objects, specify which method to use to draw it (shape, colors, fill styles, etc).

When you play tic-tac-toe, the filled board can be seen as a 3×3 pixel raster image with three colors: x, o and empty. Positions are specified,

When your math teacher told you to draw a triangle with the points (3,
5), (5, 8), and (-2, 12) using a number 2 pencil and shade the part in
the negative in yellow, he specified a vector graphic for you as the drawing engine.

Michael

"Xalinai" wrote in message
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:18:05 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

By the way…. how are Illustrator and Photoshop different from each
other.
Are they competing products or, if not, how is each one best used?

Photoshop is a raster image editor while Illustrator is a vector image editor.
F
Fred
Jul 10, 2004
An excellent explanation!!!! Give yourself 15 points!!
Many thanx,
Fred

"Xalinai" wrote in message
Fred wrote:

Michael —
Another stupid question — can you give me an example of what is a raster image and what is a vector image?
Fred

A raster image is a rectangular arrangement of pixels of the same color depth. There is no relation between the colors of neighbouring pixels, each color value is the result of a sample (scanner, camera) or of artistic activity by the user (painting, adding text, applying effects). Stored image information consists of pixel data only.
A vector image is a list of commands to the appropriate program. The commands include the definition of the drawing area, the position of objects, specify which method to use to draw it (shape, colors, fill styles, etc).

When you play tic-tac-toe, the filled board can be seen as a 3×3 pixel raster image with three colors: x, o and empty. Positions are specified,
When your math teacher told you to draw a triangle with the points (3,
5), (5, 8), and (-2, 12) using a number 2 pencil and shade the part in
the negative in yellow, he specified a vector graphic for you as the drawing engine.

Michael

"Xalinai" wrote in message
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:18:05 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

By the way…. how are Illustrator and Photoshop different from each
other.
Are they competing products or, if not, how is each one best used?

Photoshop is a raster image editor while Illustrator is a vector image editor.
F
Fred
Jul 10, 2004
Thanks for the links, Nik! Especially like that glossary! Fred

"Nik Coughin" <nrkn!no-spam!@woosh.co.nz> wrote in message
Fred wrote:
Michael —
Another stupid question — can you give me an example of what is a raster image and what is a vector image?
Fred

Well, I’m not Michael, but…

Raster image:
http://scv.bu.edu/Tutorials/ImageFiles/image101.html

Vector image (near the bottom):
http://docs.kde.org/en/HEAD/koffice/kword/glossary.html

An oversimplification would be
raster=bitmap, vector=clipart.

F
Fred
Jul 16, 2004
Any more comments about this? Sure is great to hear all the opinions.

"Fred" wrote in message
Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here
I’m
becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need
a
program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark
are
names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is
the
oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on the back!!

B:^)

Fred

JP
John Potter
Aug 11, 2004
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 09:07:54 GMT, (Xalinai)
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:07:16 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

Thanks very much! More of our advertisers seem to be using Illustrator, so I’ll look into getting that. What is the oldest version of Illustrator that you still see around?

You do not have that effect of dramatically falling prices for older versions with Adobe products. They seem to have a policy to re-stock their dealers with the new versions, taking back all the older ones.
Unlike Macromedia, they allow you to upgrade from any old version (as far as I can work out). I upgraded Pagemaker 5 (1991) to PM7 a year or so back. They currently offer an upgrade from Photoshop 4 to Creative Suite. That has a version limit but it’s to a different product – Creative Suite includes P/shop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat, GoLive.

Michael

"Xalinai" wrote in message
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:10:29 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here
I’m
becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these
guys
are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need
a
program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct
problems
with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark
are
names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that
might
turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is
the
oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

What you need is a mostly vector oriented program that understands PDF, keeps the vector information as vector information and can save PDF files.

You will find part of those abilities in Illustrator but Adobe will try to sell Acrobat too.

You can try and get the Corel Graphics Suite – Versions 11 and 12 are quite good with PDF import and conversion into editable elements and their PDF export isn’t too bad.

Version 11 is available for about 100 Euros here.

PSP is not recommended for this kind of task as it has no PDF export and has a tendency to convert things into raster data.

Michael

U
Uni
Aug 11, 2004
John Potter wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 09:07:54 GMT, (Xalinai)
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:07:16 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

Thanks very much! More of our advertisers seem to be using Illustrator, so I’ll look into getting that. What is the oldest version of Illustrator that you still see around?

You do not have that effect of dramatically falling prices for older versions with Adobe products. They seem to have a policy to re-stock their dealers with the new versions, taking back all the older ones.

Unlike Macromedia, they allow you to upgrade from any old version (as far as I can work out). I upgraded Pagemaker 5 (1991) to PM7 a year or so back. They currently offer an upgrade from Photoshop 4 to Creative Suite. That has a version limit but it’s to a different product – Creative Suite includes P/shop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat, GoLive.

Darn! Like having the world at your fingertips!

🙂

Uni

Michael

"Xalinai" wrote in message

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:10:29 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes. However, since I’m the least stupid computer graphics person around here
I’m

becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these
guys

are just passing the ads on and don’t know how to change things like area codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need
a

program that let’s me open PDF files and make changes and correct
problems

with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around — Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark
are

names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t know any of them from Shinola.

Also, I’m stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I’m not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that
might

turn out to be a bad choice, I’d be most interested in what you think is
the

oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out OK, I’ll consider upgrading at that time.

What you need is a mostly vector oriented program that understands PDF, keeps the vector information as vector information and can save PDF files.

You will find part of those abilities in Illustrator but Adobe will try to sell Acrobat too.

You can try and get the Corel Graphics Suite – Versions 11 and 12 are quite good with PDF import and conversion into editable elements and their PDF export isn’t too bad.

Version 11 is available for about 100 Euros here.

PSP is not recommended for this kind of task as it has no PDF export and has a tendency to convert things into raster data.

Michael


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