Am I trying to do something that’s impossible?
no
but it’s a pain in the ass to do.
build the file in layers, then, transfer the layers to the spot channels.
Wouldn’t it be easier to make your Pantone background in a final layout program like InDesign — although i imagine that you could also do that in Freestyle too.
depends on trapping tools available and other junk.
Can you explain how to do this. I’m not a Photoshop expert. How do you create knock-out with spot channels? What about the outer glow and emboss…how do I transfer something like that to spot channels? Thanks!
Ann,
One of the reasons I want to make the background in Photoshop is because I want to use outer bevel/emboss and glow effects. How do you create these in Freehand or Illustrator so that they look good?
Another reason I need to do it in Photoshop is because my printer tells me I cannot create a Gradient from a Pantone Spot Color to a CMYK color in Freehand (I’m in Freehand 10).
Any advice welcomed!
Richard
How do you create knock-out with spot channels?
selections
What about the outer glow and emboss…
styles
how do I transfer something like that to spot channels?
copy / paste
If you focus really hard, you can do what you want as two grayscale documents of the same size. (There are other ways, but this is worth attempting for the educational value. Individual plates carry individual inks, after all)
When you’re done, save as psd, flatten, copy and paste in the appropriate channel of your CMYK+Pantone document.
It might be worth asking yourself if you really need that Spot color at all — or whether you could get away with its Process color equivalent.
I haven’t used Freehand in years, but in Illustrator you could make one gradient of your Spot Color going from 100% to 0%; then duplicate it and change the the gradient to 0% to 100% Cyan (running in the opposite direction). Set the Spot color to "Overprint’ and the Transparency of the overlying gradient to Multiply. You could then add a bevel or drop shadow using Effect/3D/Extrude & Bevel and Effect/Stylize/Drop Shadow.
Then place your Photoshop images over the top.
Vector objects, spot colors and transparency…………….DOES NOT WORK!, um within a single application, nested files, and some workflows within a combination of apps.
You can build it, but it may not get translated to the physical world as such.
You may be able to build a hybrid, multiple application solution, but it would be easier to build it in PS as one editable document, text excluded.
There is also the issue of trapping pixel based objects to vector spots and how those objects interact or not. You can’t spread CT info into vector art, let alone deal with it being a spot color.
good critical thinking thought….
…. it’s not an easy task, but we do this stuff everyday at my work. The best route is to setup your files for DCS output, which is Digital Color Seperation.
Ways to knock out areas on your spot channel are by using paths and/or the erase tool and deleting the color physically from the channel, or by setting up your effects using only one pure color of CMYK, not a mixture. Then turn only the channel of the color with the effect you are using (you should only see your effect when turning all other color channels off), duplicate the channel, then double click on the channel and pick your spot color.
We use the yellow or cyan channel a lot to create our DCS spot colors. Easiest way to get your effect to show on only one channel for production is to add an adjustment layer to the layer that will have contain the spot color. Curves works good. Pull out all colors except cyan or yellow (leaving only the channel color you decide you want to use to create your spot color). Go ahead and saturate or increase the amount of color you want to use (ex. cyan/yellow). This ensures you get a rich amount of ink when you create your spot color. You’ll have to play with this a bit to find out the correct value, but you should target around 90-100 percent opacity in the solid areas of your spot color. Make sense? This is because that will be the valued saturation of the spot color…
Turn off all other photoshop layers that are not going to be using the spot color. This is important, because you don’t have to delete other layers that use the same channel colors. Just turn them off.
It takes a few tries to get used to the idea of how to do this, but it gets easier after a few times… Save your original PSD file and for output "flatten" your artwork and save as Photoshop DCS 2.0 EPS. You’ll need to make a note for the printer so they know they are dealing with a spot color and DCS files.
Best of regards. Hope this helps. 🙂
<< Vector objects, spot colors and transparency…………….DOES NOT WORK!,>>
Actually I have just checked that a file set-up as I suggested in message #8 (two separate gradients: one for the spot-color only and an over-lying one for Cyan) that is Saved As a PDF with PDF 1.4 or 1.5 compatibility does show correct separations when viewed in Acrobat 6 Pro.
If you then try to Place that file in Quark however — Heaven Help You!
Trapping is the real big issue Ann.
Agreed.
But you can trap objects manually, or set black text to overprint, from inside Illustrator and it seems to show-up correctly in the Acrobat 6 separations.
Ann
I assume you saved as a Photoshop PDF.
What Mike said is correct, Photoshop cannot save a file that can be used in other applications that retain Spot color, Transparency and Vector. (excluding clipping paths)
You can only attain two of the three in any given file saved from Photoshop.
As to trapping, my inrip trapping can do it. 🙂
John:
Richard’s original post mentioned a desire to make a gradient running between a spot-color and a process cyan. And he wanted to out-put through Freehand.
In message #8 I suggested that if he MUST (!) do this, that he could do it in Illustrator CS (I have no idea if this can be done in FH or not) — and explained how.
I thought that I had made it very clear that this sort of work could be done more easily in his final output program — either InDesign or Illustrator — and NOT in Photoshop.
And that the resulting Illustrator PDF should, on NO account, be placed into Quark.
Try this.
Make two gradients separately: the first as a gradient of your Spot Color going from 100% to 0%; and the second as a gradient of 0% to 100% Cyan (running in the opposite direction). Position the second gradient directly above the first.
Set the Spot color to "Overprint’ and the transparency of the overlying Cyan gradient to Multiply.
When you print, you will appear to have a gradient running from Spot to Process.
Richard also wanted bevel effects and I suggested that he could also do this directly in Illustrator and all vector objects can be successfully trapped inside that program too.
I have made a test-file, using the method which I had suggested, and saved the file as a PDF directly out of Illustrator CS — with any over-printing and all trapping applied manually in Illustrator.
I have checked the separations in Acrobat 6 Pro and my PDF file does indeed separate and trap correctly — and produces the effect of a gradient which runs from 100% PMS on one end to 100% Cyan at the other.
Ann
I am sorry and am guilty of skimming this post. I was under the impression that we were talking about building the file purely in Photoshop as to my comment applies to Photoshop only. Your method will work. (and no need to trap it either if you were sending the files to me. My rip can handle trapping that image)
But,
but in Illustrator you could make one gradient of your Spot Color going from 100% to 0%; then duplicate it and change the the gradient to 0% to 100% Cyan (running in the opposite direction).
Why duplicate the gradient. Just make one gradient that goes from 100% spot color to 100% cyan. Since Illustrator 9+ the gradients can now contain multiple spot colors and combinations of spot and process colors.
<< Just make one gradient that goes from 100% spot color to 100% cyan. Since Illustrator 9+ the gradients can now contain multiple spot colors and combinations of spot and process colors. >>
Really?
And such mixed gradients now separate to the correct plates? Does this also apply to InDesign CS?
I must try it and see.
Added Later Still:
Correction:
Mixed Spot-to-a single Process color gradients in InDesign CS do NOT separate correctly — extraneous process colors get added into the Blend.
And don’t add intermediate stops in an Illustrator CS gradient either or the same thing will happen.
Play safe and use the one-gradient-above-the-other method after all!
Yes Ann, it DOES separate correctly. In both InDesign and Illustrator.
Make a blend from 100% pms 185 to 100% cyan. When separated, you only have image in the cyan and 185 seps.
Yes, I can see now that it does work.
But you have to be very careful if you create a tint of a Spot color to use as an intermediate "stop" in a Gradient that you are in fact using a TINT (and that you didn’t just add a step by clicking in the gradient palette because a step made like that creates a process color blend).
If you want to use layer effects you need to use one of the CMY channels. I think Vancouver covered this. this is the easiest way until they make spot channels with the same functionality as rgb and cmyk. just make sure that everything in freehand is set to the color you choose to use (say cyan) then substitue the PMS ink for Cyan. I have to do this all the time.
Yes, creating gradients in InDesign is still painful. In Illustrator, you are able to add stops (which will be cmyk if you have spot and cmyk in the gradient) then change it to spot and be able to tint it without creating a tint swatch.
InDesign (as far as I know) requires creating tint swatches first. (as you already posted)
Richard,
Unfortunately any items you place in a spot color channel will not be able to appear on a floating layer and therefore you won’t be able to apply any layer effects to those items. If you want to knock out the icon shapes so they will show through the floating layer above, you will have to use Layer Masks.
Hi I created a file in photoshop with 2 spot colors. I hid all the layers and highlighted only the spot channels I wanted. I saved it as a DCS 2.0 file, BUT… I selected "Multiple files with composite." I’m wondering if that option is creating my problem which is…. When I pull the image into Quark it is very low rez and bitmapped severely. Unfortunately I can’t test the results. Either way I can see that all my spot colors are being pulled into Quark but I can’t print the separations – due to a printer problem I believe. So you see I can’t test my "theory."
When I save the file as an DCS 2.0 Multiple with compostie and then create an EPS in Quark – I can print the image (but it looks awful).
When I save the file as an DCS 2.0 Multipe NO COMPOSTIE and then save it as a eps in Quark the photoshop images does not show up or print.
What am I doing wrong! Also I never flatten an image before saving it as a EPS DCS file – could that be part of the problem.
Kathi
Hi I created a file in photoshop with 2 spot colors. I hid all the layers and highlighted only the spot channels I wanted. I saved it as a DCS 2.0 file, BUT… I selected "Multiple files with composite." I’m wondering if that option is creating my problem which is…. When I pull the image into Quark it is very low rez and bitmapped severely. Unfortunately I can’t test the results. Either way I can see that all my spot colors are being pulled into Quark but I can’t print the separations – due to a printer problem I believe. So you see I can’t test my "theory."
When I save the file as an DCS 2.0 Multiple with compostie and then create an EPS in Quark – I can print the image (but it looks awful).
When I save the file as an DCS 2.0 Multipe NO COMPOSTIE and then save it as a eps in Quark the photoshop images does not show up or print.
What am I doing wrong! Also I never flatten an image before saving it as a EPS DCS file – could that be part of the problem.
Kathi
Sorry if you get this twice – first time on the forum – I’m desperate so I’m sending it again by checking the SUBSCRIBE BY EMAIL this time.
Save as single file with color composite (72 ppi)
and I like the preview to be Jpeg.
remember this is just a preview at 72 ppi. DCS2 is an EPS file and will only print correctly to a postscript device.
you would be better off using InDesign then you could save the image as .PSD or PDF and place that.
Its time to leave the Quark ages.
Thanks – unfortunately the client wants me to finish this project in Quark.
So… why not save it as "multiple files?"
And I guess you’re saying that the proofs I have been getting from the printer must not have been made from a postscript device?
If you can save the file as a single with composite why can’t you save it as multiple files with composite?
Will the EPS file print correctly to a postscript device regardless the option selected in the DCS eps window? I need to determine if the proofs I’m getting from the printer are the proofs I should be looking at. Because they’re all bitmapped and I started with 300 rez Photoshop files.
I’ve also have found that when I create type in Photoshop and then recreate the same text in the same font and pt size in InDesign or Quark the font size does not match! I find that bazaar. Is that the case? You see I created a dropshadow for some text in the alpha channel of Photoshop then added the dropshadow to a spot channel. I then loaded the "text selection" and deleted that information from the spot color channel, so that just the dropshadow was there. My plan was to create the text in InDesign – but the same font and pt size did not match the hole within the dropshadow I created. How would you go about this.
Thank you for your response – I have to get these files in the printers hands tomorrow.
Kathi
