Printing too much black... how to remedy?

Hi,

I've finally got my video card, monitor, printer and Photoshop CS3 calibrated in such a way that I am happy with the overall colors, and what the printer prints out is relatively identical to what's on the screen.

Except for one part : Blacks. As soon as the image goes a bit darker, the printer prints out a bit too much black... details visible on the screen get lost on paper.

Otherwise, the hues and brightness match-up quite well! Everything clicks until you've got anything with any black/fading in it (a solid black is a solid black, but the fades are where you lost details.. printer drowns those fades with just a bit too much black compared to what's on the screen).

Thoughts? It's a standard inkjet printer (Brother MFC 240c). I'd like to remedy the excess black output while not affecting what I see on the screen. What would be best way to do that?

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:36:52 -0500, "m.j.s." wrote:

Hi,

I've finally got my video card, monitor, printer and Photoshop CS3 calibrated in such a way that I am happy with the overall colors, and what the printer prints out is relatively identical to what's on the screen.
Except for one part : Blacks. As soon as the image goes a bit darker, the printer prints out a bit too much black... details visible on the screen get lost on paper.

Otherwise, the hues and brightness match-up quite well! Everything clicks until you've got anything with any black/fading in it (a solid black is a solid black, but the fades are where you lost details.. printer drowns those fades with just a bit too much black compared to what's on the screen).
Thoughts? It's a standard inkjet printer (Brother MFC 240c). I'd like to remedy the excess black output while not affecting what I see on the screen. What would be best way to do that?

There may be other suggestions, and other reasons for your problem, but you have a top-of-the-line photo editing program and a bargain basement printer.

Your investment in CS3 deserves a good printer to go with it.

--

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

This is common in even the best printers. The cure is to experiment with the output sliders on the bottom of the levels control. On the left side move the slider to the right to make the blacks less black. Use an adjustment layer and start by moving the slider to 5. Make a test print and evaluate. Keep at it until you get a print with detail in the black areas that is like what you see on screen. Save the adjustment layer and just drag it to your image before printing. If you need to go up to say 20 you may have to change the middle slider so the mid tones don't get too light.

"John Forest" wrote in message

This is common in even the best printers. The cure is to experiment with the output sliders on the bottom of the levels control. On the left side move the slider to the right to make the blacks less black. Use an adjustment layer and start by moving the slider to 5. Make a test print and evaluate. Keep at it until you get a print with detail in the black areas that is like what you see on screen. Save the adjustment layer and just drag it to your image before printing. If you need to go up to say 20 you may have to change the middle slider so the mid tones don't get too light.

if you use the printer driver some can set the gamma differently like the Epson's

A suggestion from Dave Cross is to set your RGB settings for your curves for the black at 10/10/10 instead of 0/0/0, this will make the black slightly lighter.

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:45:17 -0500, "Scubabix" wrote:

A suggestion from Dave Cross is to set your RGB settings for your curves for the black at 10/10/10 instead of 0/0/0, this will make the black slightly lighter.

Open the 'Info' palette
Go 'Select' Color Range'
Search 255 255 255 and 'Okay'
Ctrl/U and make it -5%
Do the same process again
(select Color Range again)
and search 0 0 0 .
Now, in CNTL/U (or Hue/Saturation)
you do a +5%.

This will leave the black at 12 12 12
and the white at 243 243 243, which
is the way I do my printing.

Dave

"Dave" wrote in message

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:45:17 -0500, "Scubabix" wrote:

A suggestion from Dave Cross is to set your RGB settings for your curves for
the black at 10/10/10 instead of 0/0/0, this will make the black slightly lighter.

Open the 'Info' palette
Go 'Select' Color Range'
Search 255 255 255 and 'Okay'
Ctrl/U and make it -5%
Do the same process again
(select Color Range again)
and search 0 0 0 .
Now, in CNTL/U (or Hue/Saturation)
you do a +5%.

This will leave the black at 12 12 12
and the white at 243 243 243, which
is the way I do my printing.

Dave

Is this the Dave I referred to above?
Rob

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:52:21 -0500, "Scubabix" wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:45:17 -0500, "Scubabix" wrote:

A suggestion from Dave Cross is to set your RGB settings for your curves for
the black at 10/10/10 instead of 0/0/0, this will make the black slightly lighter.

Open the 'Info' palette
Go 'Select' Color Range'
Search 255 255 255 and 'Okay'
Ctrl/U and make it -5%
Do the same process again
(select Color Range again)
and search 0 0 0 .
Now, in CNTL/U (or Hue/Saturation)
you do a +5%.

This will leave the black at 12 12 12
and the white at 243 243 243, which
is the way I do my printing.

Dave

Is this the Dave I referred to above?
Rob

No Rob, it's not.
I am Dave Du Plessis, self-taught photographer
and digital painter from Durban in South Africa.
http://dave.photos.gb.net/list_collections.php

Check and Change black point from 0 to min 10

"m.j.s." wrote in message

Hi,

I've finally got my video card, monitor, printer and Photoshop CS3 calibrated in such a way that I am happy with the overall colors, and what the printer prints out is relatively identical to what's on the screen.
Except for one part : Blacks. As soon as the image goes a bit darker, the printer prints out a bit too much black... details visible on the screen get lost on paper.

Otherwise, the hues and brightness match-up quite well! Everything clicks until you've got anything with any black/fading in it (a solid black is a solid black, but the fades are where you lost details.. printer drowns those fades with just a bit too much black compared to what's on the screen).

Thoughts? It's a standard inkjet printer (Brother MFC 240c). I'd like to remedy the excess black output while not affecting what I see on the screen. What would be best way to do that?

"m.j.s." wrote in message

Hi,

I've finally got my video card, monitor, printer and Photoshop CS3 calibrated in such a way that I am happy with the overall colors, and what the printer prints out is relatively identical to what's on the screen.
Except for one part : Blacks. As soon as the image goes a bit darker, the printer prints out a bit too much black... details visible on the screen get lost on paper.

Otherwise, the hues and brightness match-up quite well! Everything clicks until you've got anything with any black/fading in it (a solid black is a solid black, but the fades are where you lost details.. printer drowns those fades with just a bit too much black compared to what's on the screen).

Thoughts? It's a standard inkjet printer (Brother MFC 240c). I'd like to remedy the excess black output while not affecting what I see on the screen. What would be best way to do that?

Others have suggested, applying a curve or levels adjustment before printing. This will work, but it is a cumbersome exercise that should not be necessary. It also robs you of the ability to make judgments on screen before printing.

KW's suggestion is the best so far - try adjusting the gamma within your printer driver.

I would suggest further that you remove your monitor from the equation. Print a test image containing various levels of gray - for example 16 steps from pure black to pure white. If you can see all the steps on the printer, then the problem may be that your monitor is too light.

Printers, being ink based, generally do somewhat better than monitors in displaying darker shades.
--
Mike Russell - www.curvemeister.com

"Dave" wrote in message

Open the 'Info' palette
Go 'Select' Color Range'

Huh? My "Info" palette offers me no such options in CS3.

We're talking about Window / Info, right? Forgive my n00bness, but I've actually used the program for 10 years and never had to explore these areas before (mostly web work).

I'd need a walkthrough for this, sorry. :-(

I can get as far as the curves main window. Then you lost me. ;-)

"Scubabix" wrote in message

A suggestion from Dave Cross is to set your RGB settings for your curves for the black at 10/10/10 instead of 0/0/0, this will make the black slightly lighter.

In article <476a089b$0$47136$>,
m.j.s. wrote:

I'd need a walkthrough for this, sorry. :-(

I can get as far as the curves main window. Then you lost me. ;-)
"Scubabix" wrote in message

A suggestion from Dave Cross is to set your RGB settings for your curves for the black at 10/10/10 instead of 0/0/0, this will make the black slightly lighter.

Glad to oblige. With the Curves (or Levels) dialog open, you see three eyedropper buttons. The right one is white, the middle one gray and the left one is black. Double-click the black eyedropper and the Adobe color picker opens.

The default is 0,0,0 but Dave Cross recommends you set it to 10,10,10. (When you eventually exit Curves or Levels, Photoshop asks if you want to save the new values as defaults. Yes, you do.)

I'd recommend you do the same thing with the white eyedropper and set it to 240,240,240.

Now when you click an eyedropper button and click again in the image, Photoshop changes the curve to make what you clicked 10,10,10 (if you used the black eyedropper). The curve display doesn't change, however -- a source of confusion in my opinion -- but the change has been made.

Let's take an example: a bride in white and a groom in a black tuxedo. Click a shadow on the tuxedo with the black eyedropper to make it 10,10,10 and a highlight on the bride's dress to make it 240,240,240 (a textured white). This not only optimizes the brightnesses in the picture, it also neutralizes the color. If you want a textured black instead of a deep shadow, use 30,30,30 for the black eyedropper and click an evenly-lit part of the tuxedo to ensure it will print with detail.

If your photo has a cross-curve (shadows off-color one way and highlights off a different way) you will need to use both black and white eyedroppers if you want it to be totally neutral ( that's not ncessarily what you'll want).

The gray eyedropper does not change the brightness of the image but neutralizes the color you click. It's a quick way to neutralize a photo which otherwise has a good tonal balance. You can click the shadow on a white wall, a concrete sidewalk or a highlight on a black auto tire to shift all the tones at once. Whatever you click becomes neutral in color without changing brightness.

best regards,
Tom Nelson
Tom Nelson Photography