removing a black veil?

I have a couple of photos of someone wearing a black veil. The angle is such that the veil is also obstructing the face of someone standing next to the woman in the veil. What tools would I use, if there are any, that would allow me to remove the veil and expose the face? The veil itself is the type from the 30s or 40s, similar to the one pictured in the link below. So you can already see part of the face. It seems like if there was some way to select that part of the picture and just have it remove all the black, it would be a step in the right direction. Anyway, I don't know how to do that and for all I know, it's a bad idea anyway. Would love to hear suggestions on the best approach to take and how to do it.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=34870 23333&category=3005

In article <RrT8e.8486$>, "Marcus
Hamilton" wrote:

I have a couple of photos of someone wearing a black veil. The angle is such that the veil is also obstructing the face of someone standing next to the woman in the veil. What tools would I use, if there are any, that would allow me to remove the veil and expose the face? The veil itself is the type from the 30s or 40s, similar to the one pictured in the link below. So you can already see part of the face. It seems like if there was some way to select that part of the picture and just have it remove all the black, it would be a step in the right direction. Anyway, I don't know how to do that and for all I know, it's a bad idea anyway. Would love to hear suggestions on the best approach to take and how to do it.

It's not so much a matter of "is it a good idea", as much as "how much time have you got?"

If I hear you correctly, you wish to remove a veil, and sort of "reconstruct" a face? Wow, that's tough. If the image is of sufficiently high-resolution, you might get away with using the magic wand tool or the cloning tool. Have you tried sifting through the various Photoshop plugin sites? There might be something that can make the process much less painful.

In article <RrT8e.8486$>,
"Marcus Hamilton" wrote:

I have a couple of photos of someone wearing a black veil. The angle is such that the veil is also obstructing the face of someone standing next to the woman in the veil. What tools would I use, if there are any, that would allow me to remove the veil and expose the face?

You can't remove the veil and "expose" the face; there is no face there to expose. The best you can do is *create* the face, from scratch--something which requires a nontrivial degree of artistic skill, as well as technical proficiency with Photoshop.

--
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

In article ,
says...

In article <RrT8e.8486$>,
"Marcus Hamilton" wrote:

I have a couple of photos of someone wearing a black veil. The angle is such that the veil is also obstructing the face of someone standing next to the woman in the veil. What tools would I use, if there are any, that

would

allow me to remove the veil and expose the face?

You can't remove the veil and "expose" the face; there is no face there to expose. The best you can do is *create* the face, from scratch--something which requires a nontrivial degree of artistic skill, as well as technical proficiency with Photoshop.

--
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Yes, you would do well to find an image of someone with a face, similar to the subject's and then add the "missing" protions into your image. Unless the " veil" happens to be on a Layer, added in PS, and you have the Layer(ed) PSD, where the face exists on a Layer below the veil, you have to either create it, or substitute another face.

Hunt

"Marcus Hamilton" wrote in message

I have a couple of photos of someone wearing a black veil. The angle is such that the veil is also obstructing the face of someone standing next

to

the woman in the veil. What tools would I use, if there are any, that

would

allow me to remove the veil and expose the face? The veil itself is the type from the 30s or 40s, similar to the one pictured in the link below.

So

you can already see part of the face. It seems like if there was some way to select that part of the picture and just have it remove all the black,

it

would be a step in the right direction. Anyway, I don't know how to do

that

and for all I know, it's a bad idea anyway. Would love to hear

suggestions

on the best approach to take and how to do it.

Without suggesting that you are not aware of the difficulties, this reminds me of a story from a local photo store:

A woman walked in with an old photograph showing her mother and father, posing for a travelling photographer. Her father was wearing a hat, covering his hair, and most of his forehead. The woman asked whether the hat could in any way be removed. The guy in the store said that it could be done, but it was going to take some time, and be expensive. That was okay with the woman. The guy then asked the woman about her fathers hair color and hair style. The woman looked at him suspiciously saying: "You will be able to see that when you take his hat off!".

:)

--
Jon Fredrik Stuest

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:58:57 GMT, "Marcus Hamilton" wrote:

I have a couple of photos of someone wearing a black veil. The angle is such that the veil is also obstructing the face of someone standing next to the woman in the veil. What tools would I use, if there are any, that would allow me to remove the veil and expose the face? The veil itself is the type from the 30s or 40s, similar to the one pictured in the link below. So you can already see part of the face. It seems like if there was some way to select that part of the picture and just have it remove all the black, it would be a step in the right direction. Anyway, I don't know how to do that and for all I know, it's a bad idea anyway. Would love to hear suggestions on the best approach to take and how to do it.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=34870 23333&category=3005

I'd be willing to give it a try.

Jon Fredrik Stuestoel wrote:

"Marcus Hamilton" wrote in message

I have a couple of photos of someone wearing a black veil. The angle is such that the veil is also obstructing the face of someone standing next

to

the woman in the veil. What tools would I use, if there are any, that

would

allow me to remove the veil and expose the face? The veil itself is the type from the 30s or 40s, similar to the one pictured in the link below.

So

you can already see part of the face. It seems like if there was some way to select that part of the picture and just have it remove all the black,

it

would be a step in the right direction. Anyway, I don't know how to do

that

and for all I know, it's a bad idea anyway. Would love to hear

suggestions

on the best approach to take and how to do it.

Without suggesting that you are not aware of the difficulties, this reminds me of a story from a local photo store:

A woman walked in with an old photograph showing her mother and father, posing for a travelling photographer. Her father was wearing a hat, covering his hair, and most of his forehead. The woman asked whether the hat could in any way be removed. The guy in the store said that it could be done, but it was going to take some time, and be expensive. That was okay with the woman. The guy then asked the woman about her fathers hair color and hair style. The woman looked at him suspiciously saying: "You will be able to see that when you take his hat off!".

:)

You could try the Magik Eraser...you know, the one you use to rub out clothes and reveal naked bodies

Jon Fredrik Stuestoel wrote:

"Marcus Hamilton" wrote in message
A woman walked in with an old photograph showing her mother and father, posing for a travelling photographer. Her father was wearing a hat, covering his hair, and most of his forehead. The woman asked whether the hat could in any way be removed. The guy in the store said that it could be done, but it was going to take some time, and be expensive. That was okay with the woman. The guy then asked the woman about her fathers hair color and hair style. The woman looked at him suspiciously saying: "You will be able to see that when you take his hat off!".

I had a similar story from an older collegue in the 80's: An old man asks the shop assistant if it is possible to make an enlargement of his father BUT viewing his face while on the paper we could see only his back.
My friend said it was impossible, the guy was upset and said "don't tell me you can't reverse the negative!" Made us laugh even now....

--
Houba houba.
Marsu.
"Le num

Dear Marcus,

Y'know this *might* not be impossible, although it could be a lot of work. Depends upon how much fine detail there is in the face. But I've had to tackle a similar problem doing restorations on mildew-attacked slides-- mildew produces a web of dark filaments that overlay the image. ASSUMING the face is everywhere lighter than the veil, it's a similar problem.

The approach I'd take would be to apply a low-pass filter to the face. "Dust and scratches" is a possibility, so is "median". Even "unsharp masking." Experiment! Then select that state for the history brush and revert to the previous state. Now paint over the veil using the history brush set to LIGHTEN mode. You'll be able to partially remove the veil without much affecting the face.

The trick is to make repeated passes at the problem-- filter, brush, filter brush. Try not to use too aggressive a filter on each pass. Don't expect 100% (or even 50%) removal of the veil on a single pass. Each filter-brush cycle, you'll lighten the veil threads a bit more and bring them into a closer match to the surrounding skin tones.

This very likely will NOT do a perfect job, but it may get you close enough (and remove enough of the fine veil structure) that you can use more conventional tools to clean out the last of it.

Note that this will only work where the veil isn't masking fine detail. If it crosses over an eye, for example, the filters aren't going to distinguish between eyelashes and eyebrow hairs and veil threads. So you gotta be REAL careful with that history brush.

And, if it ain't obvious, do this stuff on layers, so you've still got the original image intact.

Hope this helps some. Good luck!

pax / Ctein
==========================================
-- Ctein's Online Gallery http://www.ctein.com
-- Digital Restorations http://photo-repair.com ==========================================