How apply a scanner profile to a scanned photo?

Once I import a picture, how do I apply the scanner profile to it?

+++Bobby "O"+++ wrote:

Once I import a picture, how do I apply the scanner profile to it?

Check out Wayne Fulton's site www.scantips.com . Lots of good info there. --

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Thanks.........

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

+++Bobby "O"+++ wrote:

Once I import a picture, how do I apply the scanner profile to it?

Check out Wayne Fulton's site www.scantips.com . Lots of good info there. --

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 19:50:42 -0500, "+++Bobby \"O\"+++" wrote:

Thanks.........

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

+++Bobby "O"+++ wrote:

Once I import a picture, how do I apply the scanner profile to it?

Check out Wayne Fulton's site www.scantips.com . Lots of good info there. --

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Also, check out the news group comp.periphs.scanners for all your scanner questions.

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Hecate - The Real One

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"Hecate" wrote in message

Also, check out the news group comp.periphs.scanners for all your scanner questions.

This is a lousy response. The guy wants to know how to assign a profile to a imported scanned image, not how to scan. Many scanned images will not have any profile assignment. Would it be better to assign a sRGB profile to the original acquired image using Photoshop if the scanner doesn't have a profile, or would it be better to not assign a profile to the original image?

To Bobby: Open the image in Photoshop, then go to image>mode>assign profile. Here you can select the profile you want to assign to the image. If you have a profile for your scanner it should be one of the listed profiles - if you have the scanner profile in the correct folder.

Thanks - I agree this is a great response. I tried it and it works just fine.

"Jimmy" wrote in message

"Hecate" wrote in message

Also, check out the news group comp.periphs.scanners for all your scanner questions.

This is a lousy response. The guy wants to know how to assign a profile to a imported scanned image, not how to scan. Many scanned images will not have any profile assignment. Would it be better to assign a sRGB profile to the original acquired image using Photoshop if the scanner doesn't have a profile, or would it be better to not assign a profile to the original image?

To Bobby: Open the image in Photoshop, then go to image>mode>assign profile. Here you can select the profile you want to assign to the image. If you have a profile for your scanner it should be one of the listed profiles - if you have the scanner profile in the correct folder.

I do what was recommended in the book "Real World Color Management" ... scan at the same settings used to generate the scanner ICC profile, with no profile assignment ... open the untagged image in Photoshop, and since I have my settings set to warn me if I'm opening an untagged file I get the 'Missing Profile' dialog box ... select the third option, 'assign profile' and assign your scanner ICC profile here to translate the numbers to the profiled values, and also check the bottom box to convert the file to your working space.

You do not want to leave the file in the scanner profile space for editting, you should convert to a gray balanced working space like AdobeRGB or something with a wider gamut like Ektaspace if you're scanning saturated films (don't bother with prints).

Bill

Thanks for taking the time to explain so well.

Bob

"Bill Hilton" wrote in message

I do what was recommended in the book "Real World Color Management" ... scan at
the same settings used to generate the scanner ICC profile, with no profile
assignment ... open the untagged image in Photoshop, and since I have my settings set to warn me if I'm opening an untagged file I get the 'Missing Profile' dialog box ... select the third option, 'assign profile' and assign
your scanner ICC profile here to translate the numbers to the profiled values,
and also check the bottom box to convert the file to your working space.
You do not want to leave the file in the scanner profile space for editting,
you should convert to a gray balanced working space like AdobeRGB or something
with a wider gamut like Ektaspace if you're scanning saturated films (don't
bother with prints).

Bill

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 00:01:21 -0600, "Jimmy"
wrote:

"Hecate" wrote in message

Also, check out the news group comp.periphs.scanners for all your scanner questions.

This is a lousy response. The guy wants to know how to assign a profile to a imported scanned image, not how to scan. Many scanned images will not have any profile assignment. Would it be better to assign a sRGB profile to the original acquired image using Photoshop if the scanner doesn't have a profile, or would it be better to not assign a profile to the original image?

No, it's not. You won't anything that the people in
comp.periphs.scanners don't know about using scanners and their attendant profiles. You should try it sometime and then you wouldn't be so ignorant of the amount of available help in that group.,

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Hecate - The Real One

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in article , Bill Hilton at
wrote on 12/5/04 8:13 AM:

I do what was recommended in the book "Real World Color Management" ... scan at
the same settings used to generate the scanner ICC profile, with no profile assignment ... open the untagged image in Photoshop, and since I have my settings set to warn me if I'm opening an untagged file I get the 'Missing Profile' dialog box ... select the third option, 'assign profile' and assign your scanner ICC profile here to translate the numbers to the profiled values, and also check the bottom box to convert the file to your working space.

--
So then ... basically ... you automatically throw away your "RAW" scan data by knocking it down to Adobe RGB.?
I certainly would skip the second step - so I had a copy of the original file.
-
I always save the "RAW" scan - so I have a copy of that. (Your "RAW" scan will contain more information than your -assigned profile- altered file.)
Then once in Photoshop - "Assign Profile" to my scanner and save that. Then "Convert to Profile" to my working space and save that. Then - I start work on the file.
Storage is nothing - when it comes to archiving your files.

MSD

select the third option, 'assign profile' and assign
your scanner ICC profile here to translate the numbers to the profiled values, and also check the bottom box to convert the file to your working space.

From: WharfRat

So then ... basically ... you automatically throw away your "RAW" scan data by knocking it down to Adobe RGB.?

You can "save" the raw scan file by duplicating it before you open it in Photoshop. I guess if you're unsure of your profile's accuracy or if you want the option of opening it in different working spaces this makes sense.

I certainly would skip the second step - so I had a copy of the original file.

If you don't apply the scanner profile there's no point in having a scanner profile. And you shouldn't leave it in a device-specific input profile space so you need to convert to a working space before making edits.

I always save the "RAW" scan - so I have a copy of that.

Since I have a scanner on my desk I don't save the original, figuring I can re-scan if necessary.

Then once in Photoshop - "Assign Profile" to my scanner and save that.

I don't see the point in saving at this step if you saved the original file too since you can always repeat the profile assignment from the raw scan file.

Then "Convert to Profile" to my working space and save that. Then - I start work on the file.

Again, if you have the raw scan I don't see why you need to save these intermediate files since they are so simple to regenerate if you haven't made any edits.

Storage is nothing - when it comes to archiving your files.

Two 200 GB hard drives and five external hard drives down the trail I would strongly disagree that "storage is nothing" ... try working with 550 MB medium format scans sometime and see if you really want to save so many versions :)

Bill

the same settings used to generate the scanner ICC profile, with no

profile

assignment ... open the untagged image in Photoshop, and since I

have my

settings set to warn me if I'm opening an untagged file I get the

'Missing

Profile' dialog box ... select the third option, 'assign profile'

and assign

your scanner ICC profile here to translate the numbers to the

profiled values,

and also check the bottom box to convert the file to your working

space.

--
So then ... basically ... you automatically throw away your "RAW"

scan

data by knocking it down to Adobe RGB.?

Although he did suggest converting to working space (presumably Adobe RGB)
after first attaching the scanner's profile, the original scan isn't necessarily "raw". That wasn't specified previously -- all kinds of manipulation may have been done in the settings of the scan software. Only specification was that the same settings be used in the production of the scanner profile as in the 'real' scan later. One certainly could stay in "scanner space" to manipulate things in if one assumes it's a larger gamut than other choices (is this a good assumption? I have no idea). In any case, attaching the scanner profile to make proper software interpretation of the 'real' scan is the important part -- else that scan really is "raw" in the sense that the numeric values
in it are in a foreign language to software with no interpretter available (the scanner's profile).

Has anyone actually compared the gamuts of scanner devices and working spaces such as Adobe RGB? Just curious (I may do the comparison myself, but it'd be a while before I get to it, too many things in my project list as it is... :-).

Mike

the same settings used to generate the scanner ICC profile, with no

profile

assignment ... open the untagged image in Photoshop, and since I

have my

settings set to warn me if I'm opening an untagged file I get the

'Missing

Profile' dialog box ... select the third option, 'assign profile'

and assign

your scanner ICC profile here to translate the numbers to the

profiled values,

and also check the bottom box to convert the file to your working

space.

--
So then ... basically ... you automatically throw away your "RAW"

scan

data by knocking it down to Adobe RGB.?

Although he did suggest converting to working space (presumably Adobe RGB)
after first attaching the scanner's profile, the original scan isn't necessarily "raw". That wasn't specified previously -- all kinds of manipulation may have been done in the settings of the scan software. Only specification was that the same settings be used in the production of the scanner profile as in the 'real' scan later. One certainly could stay in "scanner space" to manipulate things in if one assumes it's a larger gamut than other choices (is this a good assumption? I have no idea). In any case, attaching the scanner profile to make proper software interpretation of the 'real' scan is the important part -- else that scan really is "raw" in the sense that the numeric values
in it are in a foreign language to software with no interpretter available (the scanner's profile).

Has anyone actually compared the gamuts of scanner devices and working spaces such as Adobe RGB? Just curious (I may do the comparison myself, but it'd be a while before I get to it, too many things in my project list as it is... :-).

Mike

From:

One certainly could stay in "scanner space" to manipulate things in if one assumes it's a larger gamut than other choices (is this a good assumption? I have no idea).
Has anyone actually compared the gamuts of scanner devices and working spaces such as Adobe RGB?

A good film scanner can indeed scan colors outside the AdobeRGB gamut ... but you still don't want to use the scanner profile as your "working space" since it's a device-specific range of colors that is almost certainly not gray-balanced and not perceptually uniform (if you want to learn more about why input profiles make poor working spaces read "Real World Color Management", pg 266 etc). Photoshop used to use the monitor profile as the working space for example but went to abstract, more neutral working spaces with version 5.5 because of the problems this caused.

If you are scanning saturated films like Velvia and you want to keep as wide a gamut as possible you can convert to a wider gamut working space than AdobeRGB and use that to edit that particular image ... I think Joe Holmes' Ektaspace is probably the best known and most used and I convert to it about 10% of the time, depending on the image and the colors involved. You can download it for free off the net. Ektaspace pretty much matches all the colors that slide film can capture. The problem with these wide spaces is that none of the output devices like printers or monitors can keep these colors in gamut either so you need to convert to a narrower output profile somewhere down the line when you output, typically using perceptual rendering intent to try to keep as many colors from clipping as possible.

Same deal with good dSLR cameras, which can capture colors outside ARGB ... Photoshop can convert the RAW files directly into ProPhoto RGB with the Adobe RAW converter, as this space is much wider than AdobeRGB.

Bill

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 03:20:25 GMT, WharfRat
wrote:

So then ... basically ... you automatically throw away your "RAW" scan data by knocking it down to Adobe RGB.?
I certainly would skip the second step - so I had a copy of the original file.
-
I always save the "RAW" scan - so I have a copy of that. (Your "RAW" scan will contain more information than your -assigned profile- altered file.)
Then once in Photoshop - "Assign Profile" to my scanner and save that. Then "Convert to Profile" to my working space and save that. Then - I start work on the file.
Storage is nothing - when it comes to archiving your files.

Absolutely. If you're not going to save the file, ands use non-destructive corrections initially (saved to another file name/folder) then there's little point in shooting RAW in the first place.

--

Hecate - The Real One

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On 06 Dec 2004 21:22:17 GMT, (Bill Hilton)
wrote:

If you are scanning saturated films like Velvia and you want to keep as wide a gamut as possible you can convert to a wider gamut working space than AdobeRGB and use that to edit that particular image ... I think Joe Holmes' Ektaspace is probably the best known and most used and I convert to it about 10% of the time, depending on the image and the colors involved.

And then there's the built-in (to Photoshop) Wide Gamut RGB.

--

Hecate - The Real One

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From: Hecate

If you're not going to save the file ... then there's little point in shooting RAW in the first place.

We were talking about scans ... you seem to be talking about digital ("shooting RAW")?

On 07 Dec 2004 15:28:09 GMT, (Bill Hilton)
wrote:

From: Hecate

If you're not going to save the file ... then there's little point in shooting RAW in the first place.

We were talking about scans ... you seem to be talking about digital ("shooting RAW")?

Sorry. Yes, I realised after I posted, but the same applies to RAW scans. If you're not going to save an untouched file there's little point in doing it anyway - you may as well use psd or tif.

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Hecate - The Real One

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