Nikon Digital Mess?

KK
Posted By
Karla_Kraus
Mar 2, 2009
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2741
Replies
41
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Closed
I have a custom-made PC with a 146 gig hard drive and 3.25 gigs of ram, and am using PS 11.01 as part of CS4 Extended. And I think I’ve made a mess–maybe not.

I recently acquired a Nikon D90, and with it I shot some 450 frames of an outdoor show in Raw + fine. Instead of using the Nikon software, I imported them all into PS, reduced their physical size, and saved the reductions as TIFS for further editing. Eventually, I thought to convert them to JPEGS at 72 dpi for the customer’s on-line slideshow. (This is how I’ve always done things with scanned film and slides.)

My 450 TIFS all have a slight magenta cast. I called Nikon tech support, and they told me that as long as I didn’t do any color correction to them, my final products would be without a magenta cast on my client’s computer. However, when I copied a few of the files to my laptop, they turned out to have a heavy magenta cast.

Is there anything that I can do to save the 450 TIFS, or should I just start all over again and import with the Nikon software?

Karla
TG
Tom Glowka
Mar 2, 2009
Could it be a white balance setting was incorrect on your Nikon D90? Maybe it was looking for a cooler light source and found a warmer Kelvin temperature light source than expected.

Have you tried using a cooling (blue) filter in PS?

Have you tried importing them (if you still have them on your camera) via the Nikon View software?
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Mar 2, 2009
If you imported as RAW, they are still there.Open Bridge and look for them. Do you remember where you put them?
KK
Karla_Kraus
Mar 2, 2009
They are still in my camera, and I can see the imported RAW files, with magenta cast, in Bridge. Loss of them is not the problem.

What it was looking for and found is also not the problem.

I’m not sure a cool blue filter is an answer. Blue plus magenta = poiple. But now I’m wondering–what if I were to shift the magenta to green ever so slightly in Color Balance, or shift the hue over a wee bit in Hue/Saturation?

Nikon tech support was scandalously bad, said my PS-edited photos would look fine on someone else’s monitor after I told them they looked even more magenta-cast on my laptop. I’m on hold with them now to get a copy of their disk, which I seem to have thrown away.

Karla
RP
Russell_Proulx
Mar 2, 2009
Karla,

You shot RAW.

Copy your RAW files to your computer (Don’t process images directly from your camera card).

Open them with Bridge and adjust them using using ‘Adobe Camera Raw’

Use the color balancing eyedropper to neutralize the magenta colour shift. Find a light neutral gray colour in one image. Set the colour balance and then apply this to all other images shot under similar illumination.

Use the ‘Image Processor’ from within Bridge to create your JPGs.

Don’t bother with making TIFFs .. that’s a needless waste of time and resources.

You shot RAW … colored filters on your camera are useless.

Spend some time learning to use the software you bought and paid for and you’ll get the results you’re looking for. You might consider online learning (eg: www.lynda.com), reading the manual, or taking classes.

I sympathize with your frustration. But with a bit of learning on your part you can easily solve the issues you’re facing.
GK
Geoff_K_Jackson
Mar 3, 2009
One important thing that has not been mentioned yet – Is your monitor properly color calibrated? If your monitor shows a light magenta cast and your laptop shows a heavy magenta cast, at least one of them is out of calibration. It’s no good trying to correct a color cast by eye if you do not know if your screen is accurate.
Geoff.
KK
Karla_Kraus
Mar 3, 2009
<Don’t bother with making TIFFs. That’s a needless waste of time and resources. >

There you’re wrong, Russell. One needs to do the USM when files are TIFFs (as a last step), not as JPEGs.

I use unsharpened TIFFs as my archive files, then open and sharpen them, and convert them to JPEGS as needed.

Many thanks for the rest of the info, which I will put to good use, though you should give me more credit for sense and experience.

Meanwhile I’ve been waiting on the phone to speak to someone at Nikon for hours it seems. So out of pure desperation I went and downloaded Nikon Transfer from their site–and guess what???? When I got the files from my camera through Nikon Transfer, they too were magenta-cast!!!!!

It’s possible therefore that my monitor (and the laptop too) is the culprit.

Karla
GK
Geoff_K_Jackson
Mar 3, 2009
Karla, are you able to post one of your NEF files somewhere so others can download it to take a look? I use Nikons and my monitor is calibrated so I could say if there is a noticable cast in your images.
Also, if you are looking at them in ViewNX, what is the white balance setting in Image Setting? Geoff.
DP
Daryl_Pritchard
Mar 3, 2009
Karla,

I concur with your final assessment that your monitors are out of calibration…I seem to recall that those folks who have posted here of issues with color shifts toward magenta, have often found that the monitor calibration was the issue. Why a magenta or reddish bias is common, I’m not sure, but at least it seems you’re on the right track, and I hope you have a colorimeter for performing a hardware-based calibration of your monitors. If not, then you’d be well-rewarded over time if you purchased one. In lieu of a colorimeter, a software-only calibration can also be performed and is better than nothing at all. I don’t know what to recommend in this latter category, but a search on Google might steer you in a good direction. I’m guessing however that even a budget-oriented colorimeter such as the Pantone Huey will still provide a better calibration than a software-only solution.

With regard to your comment of "you should give me more credit for sense and experience", I’d just like to offer a few thoughts: Firstly, while your post is well-written and reflects an intelligent mind, there isn’t really much here to go on to gauge your actual experience level. Consequently, people are often left to reply in context with what they read rather than make any assumptions one way or another. Better (my opinion) to understimate your experience and say too much than to overestimate and say too little, thus begging a continued Q&A series of posts. Second, if you feel the information provided is at a level that someone of your "sense and experience" should already be aware of, please keep in mind that these forums serve as an educational tool for all who might search for similar topics in their own troubleshooting efforts. As such, if other forum users respond to some questions with more information or detail than seems warranted to you, it may well be for the benefit of those less knowledgeable than you who discover this (or any other) thread.

Also, regarding a laptop’s color versus that of a monitor, something I am guessing you do know is that laptop LCDs often provide very little control over their color response, short of using whatever color management/adjustment controls are provided in the graphics chipset driver. My own experience has been that such software is very touchy, and thus rather difficult to use. Combine that with what are often no visibly indexed brightness or contrast adjustments and that just makes matters worse. I think laptops…with reasonably good LCD screens…are where hardware calibration is especially useful, as they can be used in a mode of calibrating the screen from an "as is" state, building a profile that will in turn yield a more correct color rendering by color-managed applications such as Photoshop.

cheers,

Daryl
RP
Russell_Proulx
Mar 3, 2009
I use unsharpened TIFFs as my archive files, then open and sharpen them, and convert them to JPEGS as needed.

Sorry Karla, I missed that part where you said you modified (edited) the files before moving them to the JPG stage. Yes, you would want to do sharpening at the end in that case (though I would probably use Smart Sharpen on RGB digital camera files).

For working with RAW files that will converted directly to JPGs (ie rough proofs for client viewing) you’re much better doing the sharpening with ACR. That’s where I was going..

RE: the magenta cast

What’s the RGB value of the neutral tones? Is the magenta case in the numbers? Or is it only on your monitor(s). Do you use a hardware calibrator to calibrate your screens" If so, perhaps the calibrator is defective.

I recommend you read Martin Evening’s excellent primer on using ACR’s tools.

< http://photoshopnews.com/stories/downloads/whatsnewinPSCS3.p df>

and

< http://photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/whats-new-in-cs4-by -martin-evening/>
RP
Russell_Proulx
Mar 4, 2009
Sorry, wrong link to the ACR primer. Here’s the correct one and the PDF version can be downloaded at the bottom of the article:

< http://photoshopnews.com/photoshop-cs3-for-photographers/cam era-raw-41-update/>
KK
Karla_Kraus
Mar 8, 2009
Sorry it’s taken so long to get back to you all; I simply had to finish the job–ca. 400 frames–and get on with life. FYI, I shot everything in RAW/ Fine; for arc hiving, I convert everything to Tifs, and I keep them at 300dpi at rough 8 x 10 or vv, so in case client wants a print, it can be done. I use a D-90 in case I didn’t mention it before.

Anyway, I phoned Lacie tech support, got a very nice knowledgeable person, and we recalibrated my monitor, establishing that there is NO color cast there.

I then downloaded Nikon’s equivalent to Camera RAW in Bridge and re-imported the files from the camera with the SAME result.

I’m now resultantly inclined to think that the reddish cast has to do with an overabundance of light–this was in FL in the early aft, and everything seems to be fine when I was shooting in relative shade.

For better or worse, I then decided in the interests of time to edit out the red from my images in PS, which I did simply by upping the saturation # by a few digits (no more than 10). BTW, I left some alone, and I am really very happy with the result, but but now we’ll see what my client makes of it.

To answer your Qs, re calibrators, I have no great regard for them because every monitor is different and I’m painfully aware that even those of the same make and model are to give different results. The English poet Keats had a phrase he used re such situations:negative capability (or the ability to live with uncertainties), and that’s where I’m at re calibration. Bear in mind that through the years I’ve had a number of one-person shows as a photographer–though I don’t consider my photography a strong suit–and now I have 3 websites with many digital images if my creation in PS, which have elicited all kinds of positive responses from folks who should supposedly know.

Re sharpening, I prefer to use USM–out of habit, I guess–because it allows for more control than smart sharpen.

Karla
F
Freeagent
Mar 8, 2009
re calibrators, I have no great regard for them because every monitor is different

Well, that’s precisely why we calibrate. It’s to make them not different.

BTW,

I phoned Lacie tech support (…) and we recalibrated my monitor

….how would you do that by phone?

You have to start with a properly calibrated monitor. Without that, you have no idea where you are.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Mar 8, 2009
Doing well in one person shows is not a recommendation for good color control. Off color images may in fact do better than standard correction.

If you are shooting RAW, with the D90 (I have one) then you need to either set a working WB and leave it there or plan on considerable time in correcting.

In any case, the eye dropper for color balance is there for your calibration needs FOR THE IMAGE not the monitor.

Start by purchasing a good monitor calibrator. $170 will get you a Macbeth lite, $250 the complete version. Cal your monitor. Open a file that has a known white or neutral gray, select the color balance dropper and click on it. You should see a great, balanced representation.

If not, get back here and we can take it from there.

FYI, my default color balance in my D90 is 4800K for daylight. Don’t ask me why, but in doing what I suggest, I have found that value to be a good jumping off spot.
RK
Rob_Keijzer
Mar 9, 2009
But remember: in Raw, White Balance is only tagged to the image in camera. It’s not baked into it, like shooting Jpeg.

Maybe you should shoot (same phonetics) a grey card, and "Eye Dropper" that in Camera Raw for neutrality.

Rob
FN
Fred_Nirque
Mar 9, 2009
And if, after you eyedropper a gray card for colour balance you still have a reddish cast displayed, then it is even more likely to be your monitor that is at fault.

My LaCie E22B IV has drifted so far to the red after 4 years of use that without calibration it would be unusable. I have an eye-one display2 that brings the whole shooting match back to a beautiful neutral which prints as shown on the monitor. My posted images are obviously seen as neutral by others here who use calibrated monitors, as I have had no-one comment to me otherwise.
RK
Rob_Keijzer
Mar 9, 2009
Fred,

I had that drifting too with my old Philips tube back then. I was glad that I could "ignore" that shift using my GMB Eye One Display 2.

The problem however was that the Video LUT had to be tuned so far off (to regain neutrality) that one or more channels actually introduced banding.

I didn’t realise it then, until it became so bad that I saw it.

Regular video cards (that I know of) are 8 bit/channel, so a steep correction curve is bound to do that.

Rob
FN
Fred_Nirque
Mar 9, 2009
Thanks, Rob.

I’m constantly on the lookout for any ancillary problems, but as yet everything seems OK. It obviously cannot last, though. 🙁
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Mar 9, 2009
I have a yellowish vertical band at the edges of transition zones but only certain ones, like the edges of the menu drop down button. Or the scroll bar. Sometimes though,it’s visible along edges in the images also, making for thins like CA correction impossible.

Of course, I have no lenses with CA. 😀

One of your CRT guns was maxed out, Rob. I see that here as well, but switching from Colorvision th MacBeth helped that a bit. MacBeth rescaled the entire system to recenter things.
FN
Fred_Nirque
Mar 9, 2009
I had the same experience, Larry. Colorvision was unable to cope yet the MacBeth hauled things back into shape surprisingly well.

I should have taken notice and bought an NEC 2690 at the time, though, as the Aussie dollar was around 97 US cents then – it’s about 63 cents now, and the hit against the Yen has been even harder. I’d hate to think what a 2690 would cost me now……
KK
Karla_Kraus
Mar 14, 2009
Here I am again. Well, I will go for the Macbeth.

As for monitors drifting to red, my La Cie 320 is ok in that respect, but I do so wish I had something other than it. Why? Because one has to keep the resolution very high (I have mine at the lowest possible high, 1400 x 1050), and I’ve got all kinds of problems seeing things in different programs, including the menus etc. in PS, my Palm Pilot address book etc. I’ve done all the changing to largest type etc., and it’s still unsatisfactory. I’m most concerned because I cannot see my images as my clients do, most of whom still have CRTs.

I’ve spoken to my computer repairman, and he said that he’ll come and have a look one day soon and see if there’s anything else that can be done.

So tell me, Would I fare any better with Nec2690 or another monitor?
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Mar 14, 2009
Probably, you will have to check.

NEC is going out of the display business for graphics anyway, so they probably won’t be around much longer.

Have you selected Clear Type for your display? (Rt click Desktop,> Appearance>Effects. Click "Clear Type").
F
Freeagent
Mar 14, 2009
And run the monitor at native resolution – 1600 x 1200 (I checked…)
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Mar 14, 2009
The type will be even smaller…..
F
Freeagent
Mar 14, 2009
The type will be even smaller…..

I know. It’s a dilemma.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Mar 15, 2009
The way problems have been compounding, it’s more like polylemmas.

All those lemmas rushing off the cliff into the sea…no, that’s lemmings!:D
KK
Karla_Kraus
Mar 15, 2009
I had a choice of Standard or Clear Type and just now chose Clear Type. Begging to report, as my dear friend Corporal Schweik would say, No Change. I can hardly make out this type as I write. Quel disastre. The operation was a success, only the patient died.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Mar 15, 2009
Well, I don’t know what to say

Glasses, maybe?
JJ
John Joslin
Mar 15, 2009
I wonder how many readers got the Jaroslav Hašek reference?
DE
David_E_Crawford
Mar 16, 2009
Karla,
Did you go to the Microsoft typography website?

I just cut and paste the help page for you to look at:

Make text easier to read using ClearType

ClearType font technology makes the text on your screen almost as sharp and clear as text that is printed on paper. It is on by default in this version of Windows.

To get the full benefit of ClearType, you’ll need a high-quality, flat-panel monitor, such as LCD or plasma. Even on a CRT monitor, you might get some improvement in readability with ClearType.

ClearType improves the readability of text on your display

To tune ClearType
You can use the online tuner to further adjust the legibility of on-screen items.

Go to the Microsoft typography website, and then follow the instructions for tuning ClearType.

To turn on ClearType
Click to open Appearance Settings.

Click Effects.

In the Effects dialog box, select Use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts.

Select ClearType in the list, and then click OK.

Note
Whether you select Standard or ClearType from the list, you must have a video card and monitor that support a color setting of at least 256 colors. You’ll get the best results with High color (24-bit) or Highest color (32-bit) support. You can change color quality in Display Settings in Control Panel.

Click to open Display Settings.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Mar 16, 2009
Even crt? Way better with Clear Type on.
RK
Rob_Keijzer
Mar 16, 2009
I wonder how many readers got the Jaroslav Hašek reference?

I did, but here he’s spelled Schwejk.

There was also a play on the telly here decades ago. I think in the 60’s.

Rob
JJ
John Joslin
Mar 16, 2009
…. or to be pedantic, the original was Švejk.

I remember the film with Heinz Rühmann and the TV version with Fritz Muliar.
KK
Karla_Kraus
Mar 30, 2009
Have you all ever read the original "The Good Soldier Schweik" in English translation?

David–

Just getting caught up after another onslaught of jobs. I think I’ve done the Cleartype caper, but I’ll look into it. I’m also making a list of "complaints" for my computerman to see if there is anything further he can do.

Karla
KK
Karla_Kraus
Mar 30, 2009
David–

I just checked everything, and I had already done the Cleartype caper when I put this notice up. I also had 32-bit chosen.

FYI, I have a high-quality flat panel monitor: a Lacie 320.

No, I’m afraid I have a real problem, and alas, it begins and ends with the monitor. I never did mention the most distressing thing: all 3 of my websites do not go full screen on this La Cie, as Lisa, my co-designer, and I designed them. To me, the homepages look like oversized postage stamps.

And I worry too about the future. Bearing in mind that folks are not going to switch monitors so readily given the economic downturn, which could last as long as 10 years, what screen resolution should Lisa and I design for?
JJ
John Joslin
Mar 30, 2009
Have you all ever read the original "The Good Soldier Schweik" in English translation?

Certainly have, in fact I think I’ll read it again.

Let us know how you get on with the Nikon digital mess.
MV
Mathias_Vejerslev
Mar 30, 2009
Which size you layout your website at should come down to your audience. I don’t know how it is in your country, but in mine (Denmark / Scandinavia) 800×600 is now legend, and I’ve started to design for 1024×768 instead. Fluid design is another option, whereby you can cater to larger monitors as well as lesser ones.
KK
Karla_Kraus
Mar 31, 2009
What is Fluid Design?
DM
Don_McCahill
Mar 31, 2009
What is Fluid Design

It is the ability of a design to work in any size window. For instance, you may feel that 1024×768 is the ideal space to view your page. My monitor might be set at that size, but I might not have a maximized window, and will only see a part of the page.

One of the hardest things for a print designer to get over in designing for the web is that you have no idea what size "paper" the design will appear on. Learn how to deal with that through Fluid Design, and you are on your way.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Mar 31, 2009
Sort of like "Fluid Drive" in Chrysler (?) products in the 40’s. If you are old enough to remember!
AH
Andrew_Hart
Apr 1, 2009
Klara Kraus’

In an earlier post here Lawrence Hudetz said that NEC was going out of the monitor business. He is currently unable to produce any source for this statement, although he seems to recollect having seen something to that effect, perhaps on an NEC website, in the past.

It seems to me that the evidence may be quite to the contrary – see posts #13, 34 and 35 here: <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?128@@.59b84fd4> .

The reason I mention this is that I have used, and currently have on order, an NEC MultiSync LCD2690WUXi2 monitor. It is truly stunning and up there with the very best monitors. There are several very complimentary reviews of the predecessor of this monitor (WUXi rather than WUXi2 – the model 2 has a wider gamut – 97.8% of the AdobeRGB 1998 colour space) on the web. Many people recommend getting the SpectraView calibration kit (recently also upgraded (SVII-PRO-KIT)to cope with the wider gamut of the WUXi2 and supposedly including an improved version of the i1Display2 calibration puck)to enable calibration of the LUT table in the monitor (often referred to as "hardware calibration") rather than calibration of the LUT in your graphics card (often referred to as "software calibration"). This is supposed to give you a more accurate calibration of the monitor, but I have, as yet, no firm view one way or the other regarding this issue. Just thought you ought to know all the facts.

I did not want you to rule this monitor out of consideration just because of Lawrence’s opinion, which may possibly be quite wrong. I have no connection or affiliation whatsoever with NEC.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Apr 1, 2009
I was too flip in that remark. Sorry.

I did a check of the report I received from an IT website, and found no links or references to that story. I further checked the NEC website and on the press release page, I queried that report. It came back "This page no longer available". So, it appears that some confusion or maybe even outright deception is operating, and I suggest that my post be taken with a grain of salt. I was dismayed when I read it, and happy that it appears not to be true.

If the moderators want to delete that post, I have no objection. I subscribe to several of those IT sites, so I cannot confirm the origin. 🙁

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