Save for web produces too much saturation

DC
Posted By
d_cole
Aug 9, 2008
Views
659
Replies
15
Status
Closed
After a clean Vista install and of all programs including CS3, "Save for Web" is producing too highly colour saturated images. This oversaturation is apparent in non-colour managed applications including Corel Painter (which is set to its "Generic RGB profile").

CS3 is set to sRGB and "preserve embedded profile" and photos are from cameras all set to sRGB. My Wide gamut display (NEC 2690) is set to the sRGB preset. Assigning or converting the image to sRGB does not solve the problem.

It seems to affect new images only – images I have worked on pre-reformat/reinstall aren’t affected and look ok in CS3 and Save for Web.

I’d be very grateful for an explanation of what is happening and how I can correct it.

Thanks.

David

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LB
Lorrin Baker
Aug 10, 2008
Have you looked at the settings in the Save For Web dialog under the little arrow button at the top next to the "Preset" options (I believe this is where it is in CS3)?
If not, see what the compensation is sat at. I would first try the "Use document color profile" and if that looks off try the "Uncompensated color" setting.
I hope this helps!
DC
d_cole
Aug 10, 2008
Thanks. I could not find the settings you mentioned anywhere (including where you thought they might be in CS3).

The problem persists with new photos and I am still baffled.

David
LB
Lorrin_Baker
Aug 11, 2008
Well. I know it’s a long shot, anyway.
I believe the Save for Web settings dialog can be accessed by clicking the tiny arrow at the upper right hand corner of the image preview pane in the Save for Web window. I think it’s in the same place on a Mac. It’s one of my few gripes with CS3 – those tiny, almost invisible arrows that lead to application settings menus…
In changing the options yesterday, I saw a very noticable difference in saturation/density between the Windows and sRGB options.
DC
d_cole
Aug 11, 2008
EUREKA!!! Thank you so much for pursuing this and helping me to find the answer. Pilot error of course – I have been looking at the arrow to the right of the preset window not the one you directed me to. I now see that I had my "Save for Web" set to "Uncompensated Colour" and as soon as I changed the setting to "Document Colour Profile" I saw exactly what I was seeing in CS3 pre-"Save for Web". Those tiny (crucial) arrows must be the least advertised control in CS3.

I thought I was going nuts with the colour problem when my workflow seemed right.

Thanks again.

David
DC
d_cole
Aug 11, 2008
I spoke too soon. The images are now matching before and after "Save for Web" within CS3, but the resulting saved JPEG still looks horribly over saturated and shifted to red in non-color managed environments. I don’t understand this as the embedded profile in the JPEGs is sRGB.

Back to the drawing board.

David
LB
Lorrin_Baker
Aug 11, 2008
Well at least one issue was solved – you’re right, those tiny arrows are a pain. Unfortunately, different systems (unless calibrated and able to recognize your embedded profile) will always display the image differently.
Windows Picture Viewer is notorious for displaying overly dense and saturated images, so I don’t use it in color- and density-crucial situations.
One way to lessen the differences on your particular system would be to ensure that the monitor, printer driver, and PS are all using the same sRGB profile. Any application not using the same profile will interpret it as it wishes.
As far as Internet Explorer, I’m not sure of the process for "neutralizing" images for viewing on other machines. But I dare say it’s not even worth color managing images being produced for the web.
Good luck!
F
Freeagent
Aug 11, 2008
David

I don’t have an immediate solution, but it should be pointed out that "Save for web" does not use sRGB.

What it does is to strip all color profiles from the file.

The reason that usually looks OK is that most monitors have a response that closely matches sRGB. So I think I would start troubleshooting by trying another monitor first. It could be that the sRGB setting on your wide-gamut monitor doesn’t do what you think it does.
DC
d_cole
Aug 12, 2008
Thank you for your advice and suggestions. I’ll have to dig further into this.

I don’t understand why some images (generally old ones, pre-reformat/reinstall) look fine in terms of colour consistency (all sRGBor TIFs) but the new images I am working on show this over-saturation and red shift.

Ideally, should this workflow work –

preserve embedded profile, pp the image, then Save for Web with "Convert to sRGB" selected?

It would be a big help if I knew the exact workflow that should produce colour consistency.

Thanks.
F
Freeagent
Aug 12, 2008
Here’s what should work:

Open the image in Photoshop.

Convert to Profile (your working space > sRGB).
With this step, Photoshop will recalculate the RGB values to look right in sRGB color space. Watch how the histogram changes (assuming you started out in another color space).

Save For Web. This will actually strip away your newly created sRGB profile, but because of the close match between sRGB and <no color profile> it will look more or less the same.

Unless your monitor has a response that differs very much from the standard sRGB space. BTW "preserve embedded profile" won’t do anything because the profile will be stripped anyway.
F
Freeagent
Aug 12, 2008
As an experiment:
Open one of the affected files again and

assign

sRGB (not convert). If that makes it look right in SFW, go through all your color settings again, including Camera Raw (if any) and the camera itself.

Also, you do calibrate your monitor? All kinds of weird things can happen if you don’t.

But I’m not really familiar with the behaviour of wide-gamut monitors, so maybe someone who has one can jump in?
DC
d_cole
Aug 12, 2008
Thanks. I’ll have a go at this.

What settings for "Save for Web"? (Uncompensated Color", "Standard Windows Color" or "Use Document Color Profile"? / "Convert to sRGB"?)

I do calibrate my display with Eye-One Display 2. But the sRGB mode on the NEC 2690 cannot be hardware calibrated – it’s factory set. The calibration is done in Vista through the vga card.
F
Freeagent
Aug 12, 2008
I would say uncompensated color to be on the safe side, as long as it’s converted to sRGB first. That seems to give the best result on my system.

The other settings appear to do some "on the fly" conversions that I don’t trust – especially the "optimized" tab. I’ll have to investigate those myself.

My own work is primarily destined for print, so I don’t really use SFW much. I was kinda hoping someone else would chime in to fill out the details…
MV
Mathias_Vejerslev
Aug 15, 2008
Your monitor profile could theoretically be quite different from the sRGB color space (I saw that youve set it to sRGB, but still…). In this instance, you’d see a difference from a color managed to a non-color managed application, even with sRGB.

To check how your image will look in a non-color managed application from within Photoshop – on your monitor – try View>Proof Setup>Monitor RGB.

Did you calibrate your monitor recently?
DC
d_cole
Aug 15, 2008
Thanks. Very little difference when looking at an image in Monitor RGB.

I have calibrated my display using Eye One Display 2. Software calibration only as the display’s sRGB mode cannot be altered. I am not sure how far software calibration will affect what I see; I suppose the calibration is loaded with Vista start up. I find it difficult to get (and keep) my mind round all the different interactions there are in colour management. That is one of the reasons I had hoped a straight line of sRGB from camera to pp would make life simple{r).
MV
Mathias_Vejerslev
Aug 18, 2008
The image you see with Monitor RGB proof is the image you’d see in any non-color managed application.

Just a thought: You might have a setting inside the Save for Web interface that got out of whack. You could try resetting your SFW preferences only by holding CTRL+ALT whilst selecting ‘Save For Web’ in the File Menu.

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