blue flower prints purple from PS CS3

KR
Posted By
K_Rizzo
Apr 30, 2008
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627
Replies
11
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Closed
Hi. This is driving me crazy!!! I am using WinXP/Home, Adobe RGB 1998 Color profile for both the image and Photoshop CS3. I print on Epson R2400, have freshly and properly installed inks and nozzles are not clogged. I have an image of a blue flower, and I do mean blue, not purple and not lavender. It is definitely blue on the monitor. It is blue in Bridge. It is blue in its jpg format and in its .psd format. When I print using the printer with Photoshop as color manager and print management off, the result is a purple flower. All the other colors in the image seem to be fine—green is green, yellowish is yellowish. When I print using printer color management(settings all properly done), NOT Photoshop’s, I end up with a blue flower! Anyone with any ideas at all why this happens? I sure would appreciate knowing! I can do the workaround by letting the printer manage color, but seems to me that Photoshop really ought to be doing this. I have not noted problems with any other colors…only blue!
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RP
Russell_Proulx
Apr 30, 2008
What Printer Profile are you using (from the pull-down menu beneath Color Handling)? You need to select the profile that that matches the printer and paper you’re using. Then in the Epson preferences you need to select No Color Adjustment. On my R200 it’s Advanced -> Color Management -> ICM -> "No Color Adjustment".

Russell
B
Buko
Apr 30, 2008
And how blue is the blue?

Keep in mind that Bright RGB colors, especially blues, don’t translate well to CMYK colors.

Try using proof colors to adjust the image so it retains the look as much as possible.
PF
Peter_Figen
Apr 30, 2008
This is not a traditional CMYK printer. An Epson 2400 can print very vivid blues. The problem more than likely is that the profile being used suffers from a relatively common (well, at least it used be common) problem where certain blues shift slightly to magenta. A good custom profile from ProfileMaker or Monaco will not suffer from this.
KR
K_Rizzo
Apr 30, 2008
Good morning to all and thanks for your thoughts! Russell, my paper profiles (latest icc from Epson) for my Epson paper (premium glossy and semigloss)–all were chosen appropriately. I used the same paper for both comparison print jobs. Buko, the blue on monitor is blue with no magenta shift. I also downloaded a test image that had its own profile, and through Photoshop the blues (and everything other color and tone) printed almost exact match to what I saw on the monitor. Peter, thanks, you are right that this printer prints differently. The blues I get from the printer management are very blue, and I can adjust the saturation etc. from the printer. The blues that printed off the test image under Photoshop management were also very intense. That is what is so odd. I used the same paper, same profiles all the way through, and yet the test image was fine. My flower image (and other floral images) produced a magenta shift with same settings, same paper, under Photoshop managed print job. I could spend $300 for a profile, though I would rather spend on paper! Peter, what actually causes the magenta shift…anyone know? Is it a subtle thing within the image? Thanks for your help, everyone!
KR
K_Rizzo
Apr 30, 2008
Ok, update…I tried a few things. One, printing this morning is, for some reason, looking more like the screen. Two, Buko’s question about what kind of blue was thought-provoking. Maybe I think the color is blue but there actually is a subtle magenta tint. So I used Hue/Saturation to shift the image to bluer. The change in Hue helped immensely! So I suppose that brings me back to color profiler??? $$$? (I know, everyone always says that is the best way to go) I still wonder why all the other colors seem to be printing fine but as Peter is saying, some blues drift toward magenta in the final print. I have found a scant few internet forum entries that suggest something similar, but with different printers–there is an item in the Color Management on Adobe Forums which was not helpful since no resolution was posted. Thanks again for any more thoughts on this. I really appreciate the chance to connect with brighter, more experienced minds!
PF
Peter_Figen
Apr 30, 2008
The way I’ve heard it described is that the hue in Lab is not exactly linear and that at a certain point it shifts slightly. It happens in a very narrow range of blue which is the reason some blues can print fine and others can shift toward magenta. Apparently it’s rooted in how Lab itself defines the color spectrum. More advanced profiling softwares have learned to compensate for that to the degree that it’s not a huge problem anymore, but you do have to use software that "knows" about the problem. Even using ProfileMaker and a Spectrolino I still see it sometimes going to offset press but almost never on inkjet. I would just have someone like Chromix build you a custom profile – they use ProfileMaker and Spectrolino’s just as I do.That will solve your problem.
CC
Christopher_Carvalho
Apr 30, 2008
When you look at a softproof on the monitor, what does the blue look like? If it matches the print, then your problem is likely that the ink gamut cannot display the blue in the image. You can also view the gamut warning feature when softproofing to the Epson ink set to see if the blue is inside the printer gamut.

If the softproof still appears blue, then your problem could be monitor calibration and that should be checked.

Printer profiling could be at fault but first eliminate the two possibilities above.

A good explanation of the "blue turns purple" problem is at: <http://brucelindbloom.com/MunsellCalcHelp.html#BluePurple>

If this is your situation, the best solution is to reduce the saturation and/or change the hue of the blue until it falls inside the printer gamut. Use the gamut warning feature in softproofing to show when you’re there.
KR
K_Rizzo
Apr 30, 2008
Excellent advice from you both. Thanks for you answers and the link! I had not thought to do the gamut warning, think I did that long ago in PS 7/pre-Epson days, then gave it up because the colors became strange. I just tried gamut warning combined with Hue/blue adjustments, and it does offer a good alternative, including use of both the saturation and lightness sliders. Using the adjustments and gamut warning shows which of the blues are vulnerable. Interesting! I will also look at Chromix, just in case. Thanks very much for your input, Peter and Christopher. This increases my understanding while providing some solutions, and that lowers my frustration considerably!!
GH
Gernot_Hoffmann
May 1, 2008
The magenta shift is NOT a matter of CIELab, it’s IMO
an optical illusion.

Please look here
<http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/hlscone03052001.pdf> on page 2, Outside top view of the HLS cone:
At 255° = 270°-15° we have at the border fully
saturated blue and in the middle white. The inter-
polation shows halfways not medium saturated blue
but medium saturated blue with a magenta tint.

One can test this further by gradients in PhS:

Foreground
R’G’B’=c1/c1/255 delivers Lab=L1/a1/b1

Now use the same lightness L1 but no saturation:
Background
Lab=L1/0/0 delivers R’G’B’=c2/c2/c2

Depending on c1 (e.g. 0 or 70), one can see a
magenta tint approximately in the middle.

A first test (unequal lightness) can be done by
Foreground
R’G’B’=0/0/255
Background
R’G’B’=255/255/255

By the way: all interpolations by gamma encoded
RGB-numbers (therefore written R’G’B’). The effect
would be essentially the same for linear RGB, because
I’m adding equal values R’=G’ to full B’.

The solution is not the replacement of Lab (which is
not involved in the test above), but the application
of a correction in order to compensate the optical
illusion.

Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
GH
Gernot_Hoffmann
May 1, 2008
Extracted from Mark D.Fairchild, Color Appearance
Models:

‘Abney effect: mixing monochromatic light
with white light does not preserve constant hue’.

‘Bezold-Brücke effect: this hue shift occurs
when one observes monochromatic light while
changing its luminance.’

Hue is in THIS context the perceived color.
E.g. one can have two hues for the same hue-angle:
blue –> magenta tinted blue.

G.H.
B
Buko
May 1, 2008
When you look at a softproof on the monitor, what does the blue look like? If it matches the print, then your problem is likely that the ink gamut cannot display the blue in the image. You can also view the gamut warning feature when softproofing to the Epson ink set to see if the blue is inside the printer gamut.

this was my point. I realize that Epsons have a wider gamut than plain old CMYK but its still CcMmYyK and the gamut is smaller than RGB and the printer driver has to convert the RGB to CcMmYyK. Really bright colors are going to be altered.

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