TEXT IN PS APPEARS FUZZY – WHY NOT SMOOTH VECTOR?

J
Posted By
jelbuilder
Jul 18, 2007
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2921
Replies
29
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Closed
When I put text into photoshop CS3, and then zoom into it, the edges are all fuzzy and jaggedy.

I was of the opinion that all text were vectors in PS and so the edges should be smooth as. Unfortunately, the text prints out all jaggedy on my laser printer also just like it looks on the screen. I’ve also played with the anti-alias options somewhat. Obviously when I do this in Illustrator, it is spot on vector, but not in PS.

What am I doing wrong here? When I convert the text into a shape, sure… the nice vector lines appear around text. But shouldn’t the text be vector straight up when I create a text layer in PS, and then I should be able to rasterize it when adding filter effects etc?

Any help with my dilemma would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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C
chrisjbirchall
Jul 18, 2007
text into photoshop CS3, and then zoom into it, the edges are all fuzzy and jaggedy

Are you "zooming in" to view the text at more than 100%? If so it will become jaggy. If you view at 100% (everything else required interpolation to fit image pixels into screen pixels) and increase the size using Image>Image_Size you will maintain the intergity of the font.

Try this experiment to help understand what is going on:

View your text on screen at 600%. Result = jaggy.

View at 100% then go Image>Image_Size to 600%, Result = clean smooth text.
J
jelbuilder
Jul 19, 2007
chrisjbirchall, thanks for the reply but I’ve still got questions.

Yes, I am zooming in more than 100% at times but I was of the opinion that this shouldn’t be an issue. As soon as I insert a new text layer, shouldn’t that text maintain the font integrity (like it does in MS publisher, word, illustrator, etc)?

The Adobe PS CS3 help guide says this, " ‘Type’ in Adobe Photoshop CS3 consists of vector-based type outlines". My problem is that when I insert text, it doesn’t look like ‘vector-based type outlines’ but rather like a rasterized image. Shouldn’t the text I insert be of a vector-based appearance until I rasterize it?
C
chrisjbirchall
Jul 19, 2007
I am zooming in more than 100% at times but I was of the opinion that this shouldn’t be an issue.

I’m afraid it absolutely is and issue.

What you are seeing on screen is not the actual image itself, but a tiled graphical representation of the file, scaled to fit on your display.

At 100%, one screen pixel represents one image pixel.

When you view this graphical representation on screen at 600%, one image pixel is going to be represented by a block of 36 screen pixels and threrefore can be nothing but jaggy.

However, if you resize the actual image by 600% using the Image>Size dialogue, interpolation takes place of all the raster pixels and these can appear jaggy depending on the quality of the interpolation algorithm in use. Vector graphics (text) however, will be scaled up without loss of quality. Hence viewing this image at 100% the text will be smooth.

Viewing at any other magnification will always produce a less than perfect representation of the image.

Hope this helps

Chris.
JJ
John_Joslin
Jul 19, 2007
In other words, Adobe turned the clock back (for good reasons).

What you see is not what you get!
JR
John_R_Nielsen
Jul 19, 2007
The OP says that the text prints pixelated, too, which shouldn’t be happening.

What is the resolution of the Photoshop document? If it is set to a low value, like 72ppi, Text will indeed print pixelated.
DM
Don_McCahill
Jul 19, 2007
I consider the fact that text is shown in raster format in the preview to be a feature, not a bug. It allows you to enlarge the text and see exactly how the anti-aliasing, etc., will effect the type.

There are very few output devices that use vectors. For almost all printers your work will be rasterized before printing, and Photoshop is the best tool to see how that will happen.

The text is vector, in that you can enlarge it, bend it, and other wise transform it. But it appears on the screen as it will in print … showing the rasters. This is a good thing.

I can think of no benefits of having the text showing artificially sharp at all resolutions, as in Illustrator.
J
jelbuilder
Jul 20, 2007
Firstly, thanks to everyone who is trying to help me understand this problem and has posted a reply. Thanks also to Don McCahill for his response which has helped me understand a little bit more. HOWEVER….. I believe that what I then should be asking is this: Is there any way for me to preview my text in Photoshop in vector-resolution (I don’t know how else to say this) so that it’s sharp at all resolutions? Let me describe my problem (amongst many others that I obviously have;) in another way:

I open up a A4 300 ppi resolution document in Photoshop and simply type the word "Photoshop" at 72pt size Myriad Pro font. The anti-aliasing is set to ‘Crisp’. Firstly, it doesn’t look the best as it is on the screen with the edges ‘jaggy’. Secondly, I hit print and it tells me I’m printing to a non-postscript printer (i.e my laser which I know IS postscript!!). When it prints out, it looks crap just like it did on my screen (edges jaggy).

I then open up a simple A4 document in Illustrator, type the word "Photoshop" at the same size text as outlined above. Looks great on screen OBVIOUSLY because it’s vector-based and is sharp at all resolutions. I hit print, it it spits out the document perfectly printed as it is on screen.

I don’t know if anyone else is experiencing this with Photoshop, but my text looks garbage only when using Photoshop. Not with any other program out there as I’ve mentioned in my previous posts (ie. MS Word, Publisher, Illustrator, Serif Drawplus, Serif Pageplus, Serif Photoplus….)
MD
Michael_D_Sullivan
Jul 20, 2007
Text at 300 ppi will not be super-sharp. Go to 600 ppi for sharp text. Photoshop doesn’t output vector text, as far as I know, while Illustrator and Acrobat do. If you save your unflattened image in PDF with the appropriate formatting, the text will remain vectors and can be printed as such, instead of being rendered.
SP
Sid_Phillips
Jul 20, 2007
I duplicated jel’s test on my own setup (CS3, WinXP, HP LaserJet PCL printer). Results were the same. Text looks jagged in PS at 16.7% view size (which is to be expected). The print output is what surprised me.

It looked screened and much too thick and a little fuzzy, even though the type was set to Regular and Crisp. It was not continuous tone, which is what I expected from pure black output.

In AI the text on screen (about the same size as PS) looked sharper, but still a little jagged. But the print output was much, much better. Razor-sharp text, the expected weight (not thickened as if stroked several pixels), and a rich, continuous-tone black.

PS definitely renders text differently, both on the screen and in print. Which is why I don’t use it for critical text layouts. All that is always done in ID, AI or Xpress. The only text I use in PS is for artistic use or labeling, where accuracy isn’t critical.

But it would be nice if PS and AI displayed and printed fonts the same.
DM
Don_McCahill
Jul 20, 2007
As I mentioned before, while Photoshop does use vector fonts internally, it rasterises the output for printing. (On most systems … perhaps a few PostScript devices can work from the vectors, if the print driver program allows it. Only someone like Chris Cox could tell us for sure.) If you want smooth fonts in final output, then you need to use a high resolution.

When you use 72 ppi resolution, you are aiming at the default screen resolution. Photoshop will antialias to give you the smoothest possible resolution. You will still be able to see steps, if you look closely, but this is unavoidable, because the pixels in a monitor are of a certain size.

When you print 72 ppi output to a 300 ppi (or higher) printer, it will look horrid, because you are using less than 1/4 of the normal printer resolution.

But it would be nice if PS and AI displayed and printed fonts the same

For your purposes, perhaps. But I would disagree. They are different tools, and to want a raster program to do vector things may interfer with people who want it to do only raster things.
B
Bernie
Jul 20, 2007
It was not continuous tone, which is what I expected from pure black output.

Define "pure black output" please.
SP
Sid_Phillips
Jul 20, 2007
Pure black, as in an RGB value of 0-0-0. If it were some other value, like 10-10-10 I might expect to see a screen. And like I said, in AI it did print pure black (no screen). Ditto for ID.

I’m not printing at 72 dpi. The 72 pt (point) text is created in a 300 dpi document, so the output is 300 dpi. And I don’t want a raster program to do vector things. I just want the raster program – which does include text – to print text that is not thicker in weight and wider than the exact same text printed from other programs.
B
Bernie
Jul 20, 2007
Print is not in RGB…

And you don’t mention if you kept the type as a vector layer or rasterized it.
BL
Bob Levine
Jul 20, 2007
I’m a bit late to this thread so excuse me if this has been covered but to get true text out of Photoshop you must be printing to a postscript printer.

If you only have PCL then save as PDF from Photoshop and print from Acrobat or Reader.

Bob
SP
Sid_Phillips
Jul 20, 2007
The image file itself is RGB. I’m not sure exactly what the LaserJet printer driver is doing, but obviously it has to convert the RGB data to grayscale. But like I said, out of PS it appears to be screened and slightly fuzzy, as if it were not a "pure" black, whereas out of AI and ID it is continuous-toned and tack-sharp.

The text layer was left as-is, so it was vector. I did not rasterize the text layer before printing.
SP
Sid_Phillips
Jul 20, 2007
Robert:

Thanks for the input. I created PDFs out of PS and AI, then printed to the LaserJet PCL printer. I also printed directly out of PS and AI to a Xerox DC12 color laser printer with an EFI RIP.

The PS PDF printed to the LaserJet now prints solid black, no screening. This slightly sharpens the image. But at least it’s solid black now. Printed directly from PS to the DC12 Postscript printer, the text is razor-sharp and solid black.

But, the output still looks different from AI output. The fonts in PS are much thicker, as if stroked by a few pixels. This is the way it looks on the screen and in print. So PS is definitely printing fonts differently and incorrectly. The AI displays and prints are what the fonts should really look like.

I would expect the "quality" of the prints between a cheap LaserJet and an expensive Xerox DC12 to be very different. And they are. But what we shouldn’t get is text that is thicker and wider from PS. It should looke like the fonts in AI, ID, Xpress, etc. I mean, the font looks and prints correctly even out of Windows Paint.

Photoshop has *got* to be better at text than Paint.
J
jelbuilder
Jul 26, 2007
Does anyone know of any way that I can work with text in PS in vector resolution and not in raster resolution? I don’t think that this has been answered yet.
B
Bernie
Jul 26, 2007
vector resolution

That’s an oxymoron. Vector by definition has no resolution
C
chrisjbirchall
Jul 26, 2007
I don’t think that this has been answered yet.

It was answered in post #1

I say again: You are confusing screen resolution with image resolution.

As Cyb so rightly points out, vector graphics (text) has no resolution. When you scale up an image containing a text layer, the text is effectively "redrawn" at the new size.

However: when you scale up your screen magnification to more than 100%, the image can do nothing but look jaggy – because of the way the screen is displaying the image using fewer screen pixels than there are image pixels.

The image itself is unchanged when you "zoom in", only the way the screen represents it.
DM
Don_McCahill
Jul 26, 2007
And if what you are looking for is smooth type on the screen when you zoom in larger than 100%, there is no way to make Photoshop show these characters smoothly.
JR
John_R_Nielsen
Jul 26, 2007
I did some experimenting, printing some Photoshop text to an Oki C7400 Postscript printer, and was surprised to find that even when I used a pure black, 0C0M0Y100K, the text always printed as rich black, even when I set the Color prefs to Maximum Black Generation. When i printed separations, I got screened text on all four seps.

The same thing happened when I saved to a Photoshop PDF, and printed from Acrobat. Illustrator and InDesign printed Black text only on the Black sep; the other three were blank. Only Photoshop printed the text wrong.

Is there some setting I’m missing?
GH
Gernot_Hoffmann
Jul 26, 2007
John,

not surprising. The customer is always the idiot.
<http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/oki-ps-28082005.pdf>

The company (OKI) had created excellent software,
but the company isn’t able to explain for average
user.

Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
J
jelbuilder
Jul 29, 2007
"vector resolution"…."screen resolution"…."image resolution"…whatever. Obviously, I’m not a guru with this stuff nor the terminology.

The point is that I just cannot believe that Photoshop CS3 CANNOT work with text as smooth type vectors on screen. Surely this CAN be done in PS. Even when I create some simple text in Illustrator, save it with PDF compatible checked. I then use File>Place command to insert it into Photoshop, it comes up in PS as a rasterized image with jaggy edges.
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Bernie
Jul 29, 2007
"vector resolution"…."screen resolution"…."image resolution"…whatever.
Obviously, I’m not a guru with this stuff nor the terminology.

Perhaps investing some time and effort to understand these terms (and why one of them is an oxymoron) would be in order at this point?
DM
Don_McCahill
Jul 29, 2007
The point is that I just cannot believe that Photoshop CS3 CANNOT work with text as smooth type vectors on screen. Surely this CAN be done in PS.

What part of no do you have trouble understanding? This is not a secret cabal. If there was a way to do what you want, we would tell you. Honest.
J
jelbuilder
Jul 30, 2007
Thanks again to everyone for their help. You guys are awesome. I will make do.
D
deebs
Jul 30, 2007
Imagine the best of Illustrator blended with the best of InDesign and Photoshop then tweaked and twiddled into a 21st century application that could and will handle vector objects and bitmap objects with equal ease.

The source files meet print quality standards with good observation of colour fidelity and can export to PDF, EPS, web standards or small device standards with equality of ease.

It is backed up with other applications that make it equally easy to provide raw data for use in printed media as well as online data store. Creating a printed catalogue is almost as easy as creating an online catalogue mashing stuff together as required.

Can Adobe do it? In one or three (newish) applications?
JG
J.Gilman
Jul 31, 2007
I’ve had this same problem printing to a RIP when making film. Text out of Photoshop has anti-aliasing or something that makes it fuzzy instead of sharp. I’ve been printing at 300dpi out of Photoshop for years and can’t remember having this problem.

It reminds me of the old days of Illustrator 8 and photoshop 5 when we had to set all of our type in Illustrator over an imported raster image.

300 dpi is a print industry standard for making anything via offset, screen printing or flexographic printing. If you send a higher resolution file to most print shops they will down-size the resolution to 300.

Is placing a 300dpi raster image in illustrator or indesign and laying out type over it really the only option?
J
jelbuilder
Aug 1, 2007
What’s the point of being able to ‘rasterize’ text (when you right click the layer) when it appears as rasterised at the point of insertion?

What about this question then: I noticed that once a text layer is inserted, if I right click the layer I can then either create a workpath or create a shape which then gives me the vector lines that I’m ideally after. This might be a stupid question but I can’t figure it out yet: Once I get my vector shapes that I’m after using the method I’ve just explained, how do I get rid of the rasterized image under the vector lines so that I can fill the vector text shape just created? I hope I’ve asked this question correctly.

Even when I create the text in Illustrator, create outlines then paste it into PS, it appears in PS as a smart object but it’s vector qualities have vanished in that it appears as a rasterized image.

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