Thanks. The descreen on the HP aio scanner leaves much to be desired, no setting for magazine/newspaper. Read the article and scanning at a higher res seems to help some.
You’ll never get a perfect result.
Glad it helped a bit.
You do have permission to use said screened image don’t you?
You can’t. Not even if the scanner software has it. Most of these "remedies" soften or blur the image. Which I am sure you know is not a good thing. There are somethings you can do to lessen the impact.
1. Try scanning the item rotated a few degrees. This can sometimes lessen the moire.
2. You can in Photoshop make a copy of the images layer, blur that until you see the problem go away and then change the layer blending mode to color. This will not get rid of the pattern but can remove any odd coloring that comes with it. I have found that this can make the moire pattern less of an issue.
3. Try scanning at a much larger size and resolution. If what you want for example is a 4×6" at 300dpi then scan it at 6×9" and 450 dpi. I recommend that you up the size and resolution by an amount that IS NOT dividable by 2. This will cause more of an impact when you use Photoshops image resize tool to scale the image back to the 4×6" 300DPI size.
4. You can try the surface blur filter in Adobe Photoshop CS2/CS3. It will blur the insides of things leaving the outlines of it pretty much alone. You may need to play with the settings but it would be a better option than one of the other blur filters.
Robert
If the resolution of the scan is high enough to see the individual halftone dots, the Median filter can be effective. Temporarily scaling up the image firs may help, since Median only works with a radius of whole pixel increments. Working at a higher resolution lets you "fake" a fractional pixel radius. Then scale back down when done.
Something that can come in handy for this is a clear plastic devivce, usually incorperated into a ruler, that when laid over a halftoned image, allows you to detrmine the line screen.
I received this email about my post.
G’day
Hi, I was wondering if you were serious with your reply to baalwww in response to his question about moire patterns!
i.e.You do have permission to use said screened image don’t you?
regards
John
I was very serious. If an image has a dot pattern Its most likely been printed. which means you are scanning from a magazine say. Which would mean that the image belongs to someone else. So is the OP just scanning pictures he likes and using them without permission of the owner? If this is what he is doing there is no difference between this pirating software, or illegally downloading music or movies. As a photographer I’d like to think that if someone would want to use my image they would come to me and pay me for an original file to use not just steal the image by scanning from a printed piece.
Too bad if my comment has offended some but this is something that needs to be addressed.
My post shows, that it is not prohibited
to copy printed material occasionally.
Mr.Buko should’t blame others just for
copying printed media. It’s often legal.
Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
Well it all depends on the final use.
To go round stealing photos and using them is not right. If he likes the picture and just want to make a print to hang on the wall I have no problem with that. Its not much different than hanging a page cut from a magazine.
But it is wrong to steal an image and use it in a brochure or another magazine without permission. Do you want anyone using your pictures without your consent? We might as well just figure a way to steal pics off the Getty site or from Adobe stock Photos who gives a shit about the photographer anyway.
And while were at it Why bother paying for Photoshop You can download a cracked version. Or steal MP3s.Nobody gets hurt by this.
BTW I did not blame anybody for anything.
I just asked If he had permission to use the image if it was not his.
Legal and moral copyright issues aside, I’m sure we can recognize that if we don’t want the moiré pattern, we need to go to the original image, which may belong to someone else who holds copyright. Publishers have no obligation to make their work easily scanned. You have to live with a lesser image if you must scan from screened art.
The reason I sent an email to Buko about the copyright issue ‘off forum’ was that I was not sure if he was saying it in a friendly joking manner or if he was serious, but I was not sure and did not want to enter into an off topic discussion online.
I thought it more reasonable to ask Buko directly rather than start a discussion which had nothing to do with helping solve baalwww’s problem.
I like to think the purpose of these forums is to help people in our community find answers and to help increase their knowledge in a friendly helpful way.
Not to act like some sort of Big Brother as to whether or not they were obeying copyright! I don’t see how this sort of Flaming is constructive (interesting to read Wikipedia’s definition of Flaming by the way)
My apologies to baalww for my off topic reply and to the rest of you, I did try to enter a dialogue offline! I know that there are strong feelings about copyright issues and I agree with most of them, I found the Fair Use reference very interesting though, thankyou Gernot.
The reason I got my back up? I remember my very first post years ago , a Flash question, I was Flamed because it had been asked before but I was new to forum etiquette and did not do a FAQ search. I do however remember how unhelpful being Flamed was and how arrogant I thought the Flamers were. Since then I have tried to be as helpful as possible when answering questions.
have a G’day
John
My take on this non-issue is: There are plenty of times when it is fine to scan a screened photo for personal use. Someone may want to clean up a newspaper photo of a loved one as a keepsake, or scan LP covers to print on on the cover of an unripped CD for personal use, or scan a CD cover for storing in iTunes, or scan old magazine articles or technical manuals for archival purposes. There are also valid reasons for scanning copyrighted screened images even for commercial purposes (e.g., expired copyright, by permission, fair use, etc.). Given that there are many valid reasons for descreening scanned images, and even scanner manufacturers build descreening algorithms (inferior to Photoshop’s varied techniques) into their drivers, it’s frankly nobody’s business what someone’s purposes are when they ask how to go about doing it unless they give one good reason to believe they are doing it for unlawful purposes.
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:47:25 -0700, wrote:
Thanks. The descreen on the HP aio scanner leaves much to be desired, no setting for magazine/newspaper. Read the article and scanning at a higher res seems to help some.
What options does the descreen filter in the scanning software offer? My old Microtek offered preset options as well as a custom option that allowed you to select any lpi from 50-266. I experimented with settings from 70-150lpi, and found that no one setting was universal.
With my Canon scanner, I can only select on/off for the descreen filter, and surprisingly, it works for all scanned material. I do need to add a slight bit of sharpening to the final image, but it does work well.
I also have a moire filter that is a plugin for PS, and it works also, only I don’t like the way the final image looks. When I need to use it, which is rare, I usually break the scanned image into it’s color channels, then pick the channel where the moire is the most pronounced. I use the filter in that channel, then merge the channels back together. That seems to work better than using the filter on the complete RGB image.
Talker
I worked with a printer years ago that took an old printed piece and performed a copy-dot procedure whereby they would elminate almost all the moire pattern for a future printing. They did however start with a piece my company had printed years before and lost the original print and negative, so no copyright infringement was in question. Wonder if there is software available out there that would also automatically do the copy dots?
I don’t see how this sort of Flaming is constructive
it’s frankly nobody’s business what someone’s purposes are when they ask how to go about doing it unless they give one good reason to believe they are doing it for unlawful purposes.
What flaming? Why are you jumping into Buko’s business? Buko simply asked if the OP had permission. If the OP is using the image under fair use, then yes, he has permission. I’m sure Buko knows this. He was just bringing up a valid consideration for those that may not be working under fair use.
It is absurd how those that criticize another for allegedly passing judgment are passing judgment themselves. C’mon guys, grow up. If you don’t approve of a tangent topic about copyright, get back on topic and offer any better ideas you have for reducing moiré patterns.
I have taken a scanned image and blurred each individual channel in CMYK mode. You might have better control this way.
Michael,
Exactly my feelings too.
Ronald
On the other hand the OP may be ignorant of copyright and ownership rights of the photographer. He doesn’t even know how to scan to eliminate moire so one might come to the conclusion he is rather new to the industry.
I simply brought this up so it would make the OP or anyone else realize that you can’t just scan something and use it anywhere you want. What if he was using it for some companies brochure or advertisement. If the OP has no clue about copyright and thinks nice picture that will work real nice for this job I’m doing.
The company that hires the OP thinks he knows the rules and trust his use of the images not realizing he has been rescanning other peoples images without permission. Now we have the situation of a possible lawsuit against the company who hired the OP.
whether this applies to the OP or someone else who may be reading this thread its something that needs to be brought up. I can only believe that the folk who think my bringing up this subject is irrelevant, must also be scanning and and using other peoples art and photos without permission and think its just fine. Do you also use a pirate version of Photoshop?
Good suggestion:
Contribute to ANY discussion here by
asking
‘do you use a pirate version of PhS ?’
Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
He doesn’t even know how to scan to eliminate moire so one might come to the conclusion he is rather new to the industry.
This is not a unique conclusion. However, it seems odd that someone would know the term moiré yet not know how to deal with it.
When I type ‘moire’ into Google. Wikipedia is the first result. In the ‘External Links’ section of Wikipedia’s Moiré article, the first item is called "Removing Moiré Patterns". I click on it and find an answer to the question.
Why is everyone peeing against the wind about Buko’s very valid point of copyright awareness? We’re apparently dealing with amateurs here. 🙂
This doc, which is closely related to
the OP’s question, contains on p.6 two
reproductions of already printed photos:
<
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/scan121200.pdf>
IMO, this is an example for ‘Fair Use’.
The photos are used for scientific purposes.
Anywhere else I’m using only my own photos
in tutorials.
Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
"However, it seems odd that someone would know the term moiré yet not know how to deal with it."
Naahhh…I’ve known about moiré since I first noticed the patterns between two window screens, then happened to read about it when I was in the library.
I was in about 3rd grade at the time1967.
It was a considerable amount of time after that when I discovered the problem in Photoshop, and not a short amount of time after that when I began discovering ways of mitigating it. Like most of us, I’m still perfecting the techniques.
Sooo, different conclusions can be jumped to regarding the knowledge of moiré patterns.
🙂
Ah! But how many people are familiar with the pioneering work of Professor Alphonse Moiré and his Angora goats?
I only know of Dr. Moreau and his work with hybridizing goats and, umm
octopi, I think it was.
Needless to say, he had to go back to the drawing board a few times on that one.
we could make a new scary movie. the Island of Dr. Moiré.
Phos, you didn’t have Google in ’67.
Jim, I practically LIVED in the school and local libraries, and used to spend gobs of timeespecially during the summerroaming the 7 floors (3 of them underground archives) of the PA State library in Harrisburg. I hyperlinked myself through all sorts of subjects, via the card catalogs, and just by being inspired by some small thing in one book to do more research in others.
When I was 9-16 years old, somehow (considering what a little hellion I was otherwise) I had enough reverence and respect for the State Library that I was allowed in there all by myself; even to be allowed into the archives in the sub-floors. The employees and I knew each other by name. Funny how safe that was considered to be back thenmy Dad used to drop me off in the morning and pick me back up in the evening.
Good times, man. Good times.
It is a strange world.
Not long ago I was talking to a very proud father.
His son has secured a very important position with a group of international accountants (related to IT audits). He is really pleased with the new Merc his son has purchased and reflected upon concerns when he discovered years ago that the same person was bootlegging over 200 cracked games for Commodore Amiga.
wrote:
Good suggestion:
Contribute to ANY discussion here by
asking
‘do you use a pirate version of PhS ?’
Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
