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At an earlier time, macs were the "elite" in the graphic arts world. Not so anymore as a windows-based pc is just as capable as a mac these days. (even in the old days, the notion that macs were better for "graphics" was limited to some very few features that allowed macs to handle some issues with fewer problems than pcs did, and even then they were software solutions, not something inherent to mac processors) These days Adobe software is increasingly moving away from the elite user and into the realm of the everyday. It’s caused more problems in the printing industry than I would care to count, but there’s no stopping the stampede for dollars. My guess is that the official numbers will see pc sales outstrip mac ones by the next suite version. Unofficially though, you’re forgetting that there is a much larger base of pirate users on the pc side, so from a user standpoint, there have been a whole lot more pc users than mac users. (and if you think that that base is not one that Adobe factors into their decisions, I could tell you some stories I’ve heard of corporations purposely releasing pirated versions of their software into the wild to increase their user base and future sales.)
How does market share affect the work of a professional artist? Who is claiming 90% saturation in graphics? The Adobe sales numbers clearly show platform does not matter. So why is this an issue? Hopefully this comment from John Nack will disabuse platform bigots.
In Europe, pretty well everyone in the print side of the industry uses macs, with rare exceptions. Maybe Windows 7 is going to be a usable enough Operating System, that things will change in the recession, I don’t know. If the superficial price gap continues, and Apple don’t tackle this problem it could be an issue.
It’s almost impossible to imagine how the majority of Adobe Engineers wouldn’t have a preference for Mac over Windows. Since they are informed much better than the average user base, and have to work within and around both Operating Systems. Of course the Macromedia takeover a few years ago probably upset this balance, but I’m hoping that this glitch will be ironed out over time. Apple did themselves a disservice with the sudden Launch of Leopard.
After reading the Windows PS forum it seems that Windows users have more than their fair share of problems with the release of CS4. Mac issues seem few and far between by comparison. Is this because Macs are only made by Apple and PC boxes are made by any Tom, Dick or Harry? I would say that has something to do with the problems.
A friend of mine who has a PC just hates his machine just got some weird virus/malware thing that took him out for a few days. He wishes he had a Mac but just can’t afford one.
As a long time Mac/Win user that doesn’t base silly prejudices on limited experience with Windows 95 and Mac OS7, I’m still looking. Got any suggestions for a smarter OS?
It seems odd that we need to be constantly repairing permissions, running DiskWarrior and Cocktail. This nonsense is not needed on other BSD systems.
Sure, this is this is another silly platform debate thread. The irony is that this thread started out to say that there is no real difference in which platform Adobe apps run on.
"there is no real difference in which platform Adobe apps run on’ that’s because Adobe have invested resources, and struggled over the years to try and keep it this way.
Repairing Permissions, and running DiskWarrior and Cocktail as needed, take a few moments; and can be set to run automatically and shut down the computer at the end of the day so they are a non-issue as far as I am concerned.
Far more important to me is that the CS4 Suite (including the OpenGL features) runs flawlessly on my computer which does not appear to be the case for the Window’s Users if the threads in the Windows Forums are anything to go by.
So has Macromedia, another bi-platform developer that you mentioned earlier as possibly upsetting some perceived balance. I’m unable to make sense of your posts here.
Can you just cut to the chase and say ‘I love Mac with all my heart and soul’ or is there some other point you are trying to make? 🙂
Ann, it does not matter if it takes only 2 seconds to repair permissions. It is just insane when no other BSD system (you know OSX is BSD, right?) requires this. It is no different than a Windows user allowing AV to run automatically.
Pull your heads from your bums and realize both platforms have their own quirks; both platforms require maintenance; and Adobe makes software that runs on both. Why anyone needs to make a differentiation is beyond reason. What point are you trying to make here? …That there are just as many Adobe graphics professionals using Windows as there are Mac? Why justify that statistic with a thread if you want to claim superiority of a particular platform? As with all else in life, everything is even. Quit trying to rock the boat.
It’s a continuing source of irritation how many loyal Windows users are still completely unaware of how blindingly superior in nearly every respect the Mac OS as a platform, for almost any type of work is – and most of them are still on XP for crissake!
Maintenance is not required anywhere near as often as you seem to think. As part of my job I often have to go into studio’s where the macs have not been maintained since they were bought, no disk permissions, no Onyx nothing. No issues, well not serious ones
I like the word bum Ann, doesn’t it make you laugh?
"Why do Apple users always feel the need to justify their choice of platform" – its the desire to be HELPFUL that motivates this. Since you’ll save yourself, time, heartache, and yes when all’s said and done money by swapping.
Oh, I love platform wars discussions, mainly because its a rare opportunity to discuss an issue where you can conclusively, without any fear of disagreement know you are right
Ann, no, it is not necessary. Nothing I have posted here really matters. Ramon posted a statistic alleged by an Adobe employee that they have an equal market for their graphic apps. I’m not sure why others feel this is an opportunity to argue which platform is best or more used. Adobe consumers have apparently voted that it really does not matter. How does anyone here argue that? Unless they are nuts.
JJ in this case its more about the irritating Jim Jordan than it is about a platform war. I know that there is a few of you running windows with no issues what so ever. there seem to be many more that just can’t get CS4 to work. whether they are running XP or Vista.
admittedly only the people with problems come to a forum for help but the problems seem to be wider spread on your side of the hall. Which is why I made this comment in post #6:
it seems that Windows users have more than their fair share of problems with the release of CS4. Mac issues seem few and far between by comparison. Is this because Macs are only made by Apple and PC boxes are made by any Tom, Dick or Harry? I would say that has something to do with the problems.
Fair enough but, as you said, "only the people with problems come to a forum for help."
What is definitely true is that there are a lot more crappy Windows boxes out in the wild. But since over 87% of the world’s personal computers are using Windows that’s hardly surprising.
(Once again, as far as Adobe apps are concerned, neither OS has an advantage. Except for YOU dear user!) 🙂
I have used Macs for years at places I freelance, but use Windows at home because the hardware isn’t as spendy. What I can tell you is that the idea that the Mac is so vastly superior is a delusion. People that I’ve worked for/with have almost MORE problems with their Macs than I do with Windows. I think it comes down to knowing the machine you’re using and knowing how to avoid trouble.
I never had any extreme problems with Adobe software on any of my Windows machines. I don’t use CS4 yet so I can’t say if I’ll have issues with it but I think the reason there are more problems in Windows than Mac OS is that SOMETHING has changed at Adobe, changes made in CS4, or in WinXP or Vista, or all the above that weren’t properly addressed before shipping.
If Mac OS were run by as large and diverse a user base as Windows it would make sense there would also be a greater number of people reporting problems.
I was a Windows user for 15 years. I not only designed the computers to market, I was a Network Admin and consultant. Now I use a Mac.
Funny. I see these stupid threads by the same few folks who can’t help but push their macs. And the one or two who tote Windows.
Both systems have their set of problems. But really, who cares what market shares are PC vs Mac with regards to Adobe. Big deal.
Windows has so many more vendors and software programmers to deal with they finally had to coral it in with Vista, their first attempt. Signed drivers. Macs failed with clones. Life happens.
The Mac in not superior and saying it is doesn’t make you any more superior either but damn y’all sure seem to think so.
What a joke.
You keep up the we versus them – mac vs ps all you want. It does not get anyone anywhere. Solving common issues that effect both side is much more valuable.
Maybe it makes you feel good to spout your love for one or the other. But Adobe has pretty well tried to get their products to run the same no matter which OS you choose. Adobe seems to understand Macs aren’t the only OS choice to run their products. They realize PCs make a huge part of the market. Quibble over 50 percent or 60 percent or what ever you want… the Macs just don’t have to support the thousands of titles that PCs do.
At least PCs know how to display web images with sRGB much better. In fact, amazing how a designer still needs to design for PCs ever more so than macs. Because of the sheer numbers of PCs versus Macs. I still read and hear all the time, you design for PCs first and foremost and then try to cross over to macs. Cross browser ring a bell guys. But I guess those here would find that as the PCs are trying to have a superior attitude. NO. They just realize the number of end users. But I guess the same 4-5 mac people here will still have something to say about that statement. How PC users feel their systems are the best or run Adobe products better and were ready for 64 bit first. Whooppiieeeeeee. God, what you guys stoop to for something to write about.
Hey, sorry but I get so tired of these threads let’s just call them out on it….
ANN RAMON BUKO MARK
What other enlightenment can you fill us with? Mac vs PC. God, give it a rest…
Leopard was rushed out the door. So was Vista. Smart PC users may be still on XP, Mark because they didn’t like Vista just like a lot of people don’t like Leopard. WOW. Amazing. The consumer is the main beta tester now for just about any of it. Ramon, you on Leopard yet? CS4? Anything new and up to date?
So where are with with Snow Leopard? The perfect OS? Who knows.
And Ann. Bringing up the fact that our PC friendly guy here is not CS4, well… a lot of those with opinions of Macs aren’t. Is Ramon? I know you stay up to date Ann but maybe our PC guys can read the other forums just fine and go from there. Like some do here. Hum….
I just wanted to walk all over this thread. Say my rants and raves. Call people out on their superior attitude of crap. Go kneel to your John Nack and by all means, keep reading his blog and keep us posted. I doubt John want to really hear all of this either.
This was a whole waste of space and so you know, let’s see how long I can type and waste even more. Let’s just keep talking and trashing everything I can and see if I can’t kill this thread.
Heck – maybe I should take a different tact and try to get it locked down and closed. May be I should try to get the moderators to do their job and stop this from going too far.
Just the same old same old. The same usual suspects screaming the same old lines. Ramon, really – was this addressed to us who use macs in the mac forums or to PC users who also keep up with Macs and happen by?
You know, even trying to kill this thread by ranting now isn’t that much fun. Because I think every one but Ann and Ramon and Mark and Buko are tired of the MAC is better than PC routine. JJ, let them say what ever they want. You think anyone is really going to read it? Or read this?
I stayed up too late tonight and have sleep deprivation. I doubt I will remember typing this. I will remember listing the same 4 names we can list all too often and the same people that opinionate the loudest here.
It is a shame though. If they would stay off these topics and stay with being helpful without having to cry superior this or sucky that… they would actually be great to keep around.
But they just can’t help themselves. They will be the first to fire off at you should you disagree with them. They are the one’s who are always right and never wrong.
Anyway, guess I did what I wanted… to try to blow steam, vent, release frustrations or what ever… and in all hopes – I hope I wrote long enough that this thread will just die and go away.
Tell you what, let’s copy and past the whole thing twice to really make one have to scroll down to post anything new…
OK GUYS>>>
I was a Windows user for 15 years. I not only designed the computers to market, I was a Network Admin and consultant. Now I use a Mac.
Funny. I see these stupid threads by the same 6 folks who can’t help but push their macs. And the one or two who tote Windows.
Both systems have their set of problems. But really, who cares what market share are PC vs Mac with regards to Adobe. Big deal.
Windows has so many more vendors and software programmers to deal with they finally had to coral it in with Vista, their first attempt. Macs failed with clones. Life happens.
The Mac in not superior and saying it is doesn’t make you any more superior either but damn y’all sure seem to think so.
What a joke.
You keep up the we versus them – mac vs ps all you want. It does not get anyone anywhere.
Maybe it makes you feel good to spout your love for one or the other. But Adobe has pretty well tried to get their products to run the same no matter which OS you choose. Adobe seems to understand Macs aren’t the only OS choice to run their products. They realize PCs make a huge part of the market. Quibble over 50 percent or 60 percent or what ever you want… the Macs just don’t have to support the thousands of titles that PCs do. At least PCs know how to display web images with sRGB much better. If fact, amazing how a designer still needs to design for PCs ever more so than macs. I still read and hear all the time, you design for PCs first and foremost and then try to cross over to macs. But I guess those here would find that as the PCs are trying to have a superior attitude. NO. They just realize the number of end users. But I guess the same 4-5 mac people here will still have something to say about that statement.
Hey, I get so tired of these threads let’s just all them out on it….
ANN RAMON BUKO MARK
What other enlightenment can you fill us with? Mac vs PC. God, give it a rest…
Leopard was rushed out the door. So was Vista. And the consumer is the main beta tester now for just about any of it. Ramon, you on Leopard yet?
So where are with with Snow Leopard? The perfect OS? Who knows.
And Ann. Bringing up the fact that our PC friendly guy here is not CS4, well… a lot of those with opinions of Macs aren’t. Is Ramon?
I just wanted to walk all over this thread. Say my rants and raves. Call people out on their superior attitude of crap. Go kneel to your John Nack and by all means, keep reading his blog and keep us posted.
This was a whole waste of space and so you know, let’s see how long I can type and waste even more. Let’s just keep talking and trashing everything I can and see if I can’t kill this thread.
Heck – maybe I should take a different tact and try to get it locked down and closed.
Just the same old same old. The same usual suspects screaming the same old lines. Ramon, really – was this addressed to us who use macs or to PC users who also keep up with Macs and happen by?
WOW – too long a post and got cut off at the word YOU.
Well, here is the rest in all its glory:
You know, even trying to kill this thread by ranting now isn’t that much fun. Because I think every one but Ann and Ramon and Mark and Buko are tired of the MAC is better than PC routine. JJ, let them say what ever they want. You think anyone is really going to read it? Or read this?
I stayed up too late tonight and have sleep deprivation. I doubt I will remember typing this. I will remember listing the same 4 names we can list all too ofter and the same people that opinionate the loudest here.
It is ashame though. If they would stay off these topics and stay to being helpful without having to cry superior this or sucky that… they would actually be great to keep around. But they will be the first to fire off at you should you disagree with them.
Anyway, guess I did what I wanted… to try to blow steam, vent, release frustrations or what ever… and in all hopes – I hope I wrote long enough that this thread will just die and go away.
Tell you what, let’s copy and past the whole thing twice to really make one have to scroll down to post anything new…
OK GUYS>>>
NOW MAYBE THIS THREAD WILL DIE!!! It wasn’t necessary. It was bait.
B Bait. That is all this is… bait to dig for reactions.
buko said: "Kenny stupid people are always going to have trouble whether they use a Mac or a PC."
Yes, which goes with my statement that the higher the sheer # of users the more stupid people there would likely be in that group.
"Well that kinda stops you from commenting on all the Windows problems with the current release doesn’t it?"
Somewhat incindiary but yeah, but I mentioned it specifically while not commenting. My opinion about the issues is based on the fact that in the past 12 years I’ve not seen so many problems with Adobe software on Windows computers. That means SOMETHING has changed in a big way that caused problems that didn’t get fixed prior to release.
SINCE THAT POST I tried installing the trial version of Photoshop and guess what? It failed on 2 attempts. That has never happened with adobe products! And it’s not because I’m using WINDOWS. they did something, Adobe or Microsoft or both, that caused big trouble. Everything else works great.
I forgot to mention what I usually say in these uh…discussions, to try to avoid crazy Macvagelistic replies: there are problems with both OSes and I don’t claim either is superior, nor am I interested in a versus battle! My true wish is there would be another option that solves the issues both have. I was just interested in what the discussion was but superiority attitudes are annoying so I wanted to speak up.
I seem to remember that quite recently the very people that you have now chosen to insult spent an inordinate amount of time helping you to get your Color Management under Control?
Also, in no way did this start as a Windows-bashing thread but was purely a comment on the current platform ratio in the industry.
To half-read, and totally fail to comprehend, what was posted; and then post that repetitive ream of abusive nonsense certainly won’t win you any friends in this Forum.
If you are likely to need help in the future, you might need to consider either buying a Windows machine or changing your Screen Name.
On the 2nd try I had turned off my antivirus, cuz you’re right..although I’d never encountered problems before by leaving av on during installs (I don’t like going by the rules sometimes) and this was the first time so the av was one of my first suspects.
after AE worked ok I discovered that the PS trial had completed the "preparing files" segment of installation, so I just ran it’s setup file from the folder it had put on my drive. From there it worked brilliantly. So far I don’t seem to have any of the issues other Win users are reporting. Hopefully they won’t surface!
If you have one of the "tested and approved" cards, you should be fine. Those who are less fortunate just have to turn-off OpenGL until they have a card that can handle it.
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