I suggest that you actually work entirely in RGB while building your files.
You can use Soft Preview (View menu/Proof Set-up and Proof Colors) to see how your final document can be expected to print on Press.
Could you explain why I should be doing that?
Well if you keep everything in RGB (whatever flavor) you have a much larger color space there fore more information. Now you can convert that RGB file into several different CMYK spaces and have them look as close as possible to eachother when the final copies are printed.
Other advantages include the facts that you have a much wider range of tools available to you if you work in RGB; and you are working with, and storing, much smaller files.
I generally link PSD files to my Indesign documents. If I worked in RGB and then converted to CMYK, what would be the best way to do that conversion and still keep a PSD linked to the main file? (Would it make sense to convert the entire PSD into a smart object and then convert the document to CMYK?)
Save your Layered 16-bit RGB file as your Master File.
Then make a duplicate flattened file.
Covert it to the correct 8-bit CMYK profile for your proposed output device; and Place that file in your InDesign document.
Do the color conversion in In Design. Keep the files RGB.
My only concern with this is the confusion it might cause with file management. After I archive the files and someone else downloads them to use, would that cause a problem? I output printer files to a PDF and send those to the printer. Is there a good book that talks about such things in detail?
If you are sending a PDF, Mike’s way works perfectly.
If you need to hand over a folder containing your InDesign and image files and any supporting fonts to another operator, converting everything to the correct color space can be safer.
Sorry, I appended a comment that was meant for another thread to this one by mistake!
Keith, I think there’s nothing wrong with your idea. You can put a lot of different content into Smart Objects: RAW images or vector graphics, you can mix bit depths and color models. Photoshop converts the colors of the Smart Object according to your color settings. You can convert over and over again to different color profiles if you want to, without ever losing image quality. I like to nest a 16-bit image inside an 8-bit master document. This way I get the best of both worlds. Because it is basically an 8-bit file, I can place it in other applications and print it without limitations but at the same time keep the image quality of the higher bit depth and a huge headroom for color manipulations. Another cool technique is to convert an editable text to a smart object. Now you can filter and distort it to your heart’s content the text remains editable.
I’m drifting off topic. My point: Smart Objects give you a lot of flexibility. What the others have said is correct. Do what suits you best. However, there is at least to my knowledge no technical reason to avoid the use of Smart Objects that you have suggested in your original post.
By the way, I’m working for the packaging industry. My end product is usually a CMYK file with additional spotcolor channels.
Its still best to place RGB and let ID convert when you export the PDF. There really is no good reason to hand of Live ID files with the linked files any more.
My only concern with this is the confusion it might cause with file management. After I archive the files and someone else downloads them to use, would that cause a problem? I output printer files to a PDF and send those to the printer. Is there a good book that talks about such things in detail?
YES – your primary concerns are correct and there is nothing you can do about it. Enjoy the fact that you are a beneficiary and victim of the technology. There are only books about best practices. There are no books being written about how to solve the problem because Abobe is not interested in solving problems – just creating more features.
Embrace the reality that your job my just explode and deal with it.
There really is no good reason to hand of Live ID files with the linked files any more.
I agree with that entirely.
The problem that could arise in a corporate situation is if jobs are archived for future use possibly by other operators.
In that case, it might be safer to collect all of the job-related files (including the InD file, fonts and images and perhaps the output PDF too) into a single folder and archive the complete job.
I agree with Mathhias – there is no reason why you can’t use an RGB Smart Object embedded in a CMYK Master as you suggested Keith. I do it this way sometimes – the advantages are you have a single file, which eliminates confusion. You can change your Photoshop color settings to accurately control HOW the CMYK conversion is done. In addition any CMYK to CMYK conversion using this method references the RGB master, so its very flexible
The Old school ways, just because they are tried and tested, aren’t necessarily the best.
This is all crap to me. All this is old school thinking.
What part of it is old school?
All the parts about giving the user the ability to flatten Smart Objects. All the parts giving the user the ability to convert the file(S) in many places and in many applications at many stages and sometimes all at the same time.
The ability to to run a muck to your hearts content without any knowledge necessary.
It’s brilliant~!
This is old school thinking…
The world has forever changed. Adobe has not.
The best way of building a file that’s only destination is CMYK is in 8-bit CMYK. That way you never have to shudder when your RGB files turn to mud in the conversion.
And when you print on mutiple devices all over the world – yeah who cares what the files make. Why bother to have color management… it’s useless at this point anyways.
Stephanie:
You MUST go and do some serious reading before you post anymore of this misleading nonsense!
🙁
Ann:
I suggest you check out the CMYK world.
For the way that it works in which century?
You really do need to buy, and READ, some current books on the subject.
8/
Sorry. I should have said that in CMYK you are limited to the four cans of ink and the pantone colors. No amount of tweaking is going to bring an out of gamut color into CMYK. What is the point of building an elaborated job and running it through some software that you will have to buy when you can just make the file in CMYK and know that you can print it accurately? This way you control your files.
Stephanie:
I am not being unkind but there is SO much more to this subject than you currently begin to comprehend.
Let’s start with your Color Management settings:
(gballard’s web site, to which we directed you in your other thread, will be a great help to you in getting a better understanding of this subject.)
You simply MUST start with a properly calibrated and PROFILED monitor. That is non-negotiable so buy a spectrometer (Puck) if you don’t already have one.
In your CM settings you have a selection of choices but if you are sending work to a Press, it is absolutely essential that you choose a CMYK Profile which is targeted to the KIND of Press and the type of Stock on which your job will run.
And of course you can, and SHOULD, create your document in a recognized RGB working space (either ProPhoto or Adobe RGB but NOT sRGB) and embed that Profile into your document because you then have the flexibility to CONVERT that RGB file to the correct CMYK Profile for the job.
And your Printing Company has some terms of reference, and the means of rectifying your file, if your CMYK conversion does not meet the requirements of their Presses.
Next, you need to learn to use Soft Previews.
You should set your proposed CMYK Profile as your Preview Profile (in Photoshop’s View menu/Proof Set-up/Custom) making sure that you have checked "Simulate Paper Color".
If you keep "Proof Colors" checked, you can work in RGB while getting a very clear idea of how your colors will actually print when the ink hits paper on the Press.
Stephanie,
I should have said that in CMYK you are limited to the four cans of ink and the pantone colors.
Sorry, no. "CMYK" means cyan, magenta, yellow and black. Nothing more. No Pantone spot colors. No metallic hot stamping. No blind emboss. Just the four process inks.
Neil
Yes, Neil.
Ann, OK that’s better. But the job is already in CMYK, so why not just dump the Smart Objects in? I have to add that most printing companies are dinosaurs and not very elaborate.
Is your document a Photoshop document or are you working in InDesign?
How much of the total job have you already done in CMYK and, more importantly, are you absolutely certain that you are using the correct CMYK Profile (including Total Ink) for the Press and Stock on which the job will run?
If you build the file in InDesign, you can Place your Image files and InDesign can convert everything on Output to the PDF with the correct Profiles.
yes – go have fun creating a layout in In Disaster that has placed RGB images with transparency of tints created in CMYK.
don’t call me…
