I have given up with Photoshop CS4 when saving images for Web, whilst in previous version it was an instantaneous process, now when I press ‘Save’ Photoshop goes into Spinning wheel limbo from which I have to ‘Force Quit’ to leave. Have now installed Photoshop 7 for Web saving which works perfectly. CS4 Apple G5 1.6 GHz, 3 GB Ram, Mac OS X v 10.4.11, Photoshop alloted 70% of memory, 20 History States, First Scratch Disk while not empty has 400 GB available. Version Cue and Bridge not used, they take too much time. Prefer the old layout of the ‘Tools Menu.’
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Robin Harris I say there is something a miss on your system does not seem to be working to it’s optimal.
BTW 3GB of RAM by todays standards is not a lot of RAM.
However I do not think that is the issue.
Did you by any chance do any maintenance on your Mac in say the last two or three years?
The reason I ask is that there are other users here who run a G5 with the same system as you and they do not have those problems with Photoshop and the Bridge.
So I am thinking from the way you wrote the posting that you might not be the type that regularly does maintenance.
I still advocate Repairing Permissions (with Apple’s Disk Utility) before AND after any system update or upgrade, as well as before AND after installing any software that requires an installer that asks for your password.
I have seen software installations go sour because the installer did not find everything as and where it should be.
I have also seen software installations go bad because the installer did not clean up after itself properly and did not leave everything as and where it should be.
This is just my own personal opinion and practice based on my own observations. Others may disagree and that’s OK. I can only base my routines and my advice to others on my own experience and conclusion. I don’t pretend to know why others believe otherwise.
Repairing Permissions after the fact (i. e. not immediately before and after an install) seldom helps.; Try it anyway, though.
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Additionally, if your machine does not run 24/7 so that it runs the daily, weekly and monthly Cron Scripts in the middle of the night as intended by Apple, run Cocktail (shareware) as well.
Cron Scripts are maintenance routines designed by Apple to run on a daily, weekly and monthly basis in the middle of the night.
If you don’t run them, you WILL run into trouble, sooner rather than later.
Mac OS X performs background maintenance tasks at certain times if the computer is not in sleep mode. If your computer is shut down or in sleep at the designated times, the maintenance does not occur. In that case, you may want or need to run these manually.
Mac OS X periodically runs background tasks that, in part, remove system files that are no longer needed. This includes purging older information from log files or deleting certain temporary items. These tasks do not run if the computer is shut down or in sleep mode. If the tasks do not run, it is possible that certain log files (such as system.log) may become very large. Also, from: <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106978>
The disk activity generated by find is a normal part of file system maintenance, used for tasks such as removing invisible temporary files that are used by the system. It is scheduled to occur early in the morning at 03:15 everyday, 04:30 on Saturdays, and 05:30 on the first day of each month.
NOTE: There have been comments to the effect that Apple "fixed" this in 10.4.2 and later versions of the OS, but I have not been able to verify this to my satisfaction. The reference in the 10.4.2 release notes are far from explicit on this subject.
CS4 runs flawlessly on my PowerPC with 2 GB of RAM under 10,4.11. You should be having no problems on your G5 at all.
Dual bootable, DP MDD 1.25GHz G4 (2004), maxed out at 2GB of RAM, Tiger 10.4.11, both Spotlight and Dashboard disabled, FontAgent Pro manages fonts, Photoshop primary scratch disk on dedicated 160GB internal drive, at least 100GB available on each of the four internal drives, up to 300GB on some. Counting external FW drives just over 1.5 TB of drive space available. nVidia GeForce 7800 GS 425MHz 256 MB graphics display card w/support for Shader Model 3.0 and OpenGL 2.0. Processor napping enabled through CHUD 3.5.2.
BTW 3GB of RAM by todays standards is not a lot of RAM.
Insufficient RAM is not likely the issue in regard to SFW. While this is not as much RAM as one could have, 3 GB is at least 3 times more than is needed for the minimum system requirements for the OS and the application. As Robin is working with web graphics, we are probably not discussing huge files that would tax the system.
Repairing Permissions after the fact (i. e. not immediately before and after an install) seldom helps.; Try it anyway, though.
What is ‘after the fact’ if it is not ‘after an install’? Take the previous advice with a heavy dose of the common sense that it lacks. Ramon’s comment contradicts Apple’s instruction. Repairing permissions is done after an installation as a troubleshooting step. Apple never recommends this process prior to an installation as it is infinitely pointless to do so prior to an admin-only function like an installation.
Since credibility is likely to soon be an issue of this discussion, don’t trust anything I have typed. Look up the details. If you are not familiar with permissions, learn about them from Apple, not from nonsensical discussion pasted incessantly in a Photoshop forum.
"BTW 3GB of RAM by todays standards is not a lot of RAM. "
I’m getting tired of reading this, because in so many cases people trot it out without thinking. 3 GB of RAM is PERFECTLY adequate for that hardware and OS, and will cover all but the most demanding of workflows.
I’ll chime in here as well — for what you do, 3 GB RAM should be more than sufficient. If you work on huge or complex files, video, or several demanding applications simultaneously, we could revisit that. Your G5 1.6 GHz computer, as you know, is not the fastest, but it should work saving for Web.
If yours is not a disk free-space issue, it sounds like a maintenance issue. Disk Utility (repair permissions, and boot from Mac OS X disk to repair disk), Disk Warrior (again, boot from disk and run repairs) or Photoshop preferences may need to be reset. I run these maintenance procedures anytime I sense my computer is not working "quite right" (understand, this is quite infrequent), and these fixes plus the occasional running of Cocktail (or Onyx) do work.
Dear All, Thank you for your replies. This G5 had a clean install a month ago. The G5 is usually running at 3am and I can hear the maintenance occurring; for a long time I have also used ‘Mac Janitor.’ On your advice I have down-loaded Onyx and Cocktail and run them. The Disk Utility was run both before after the installation of CS4. CS4 has been re-installed. Tried changing preferences. There is 47 GB free space on the main hard drive (I find things get shaky if I go below 30GB.) I have just tried saving a 4mb file for Web to change to 400 k, I waited out the spinning disk and the operation was successful after 13 minutes; jpg at 71% optimisation.
Resize [a copy of] your file to the pixel dimensions you want it on the web before sending it to the Save for Web engine. I’ve never had any file take more than a few seconds (if that long) to Save for Web, and your machine should be faster than mine.
On the other hand, I would never run any machine with that little available space on the boot drive. I’m assuming you do have an external drive for your Photoshop scratch diskif you don’t, then you’re just pushing that poor boot drive to the limits.
My Photoshop scratch disk is on a dedicated 160 GB, physically separate, internal drive, and I never let any drive get more than 65% full. I save all my image files to an external FireWire drive first, before backing them up on yet another drive.
I still advocate Repairing Permissions (with Apple’s Disk Utility) before AND after any system update or upgrade, as well as before AND after installing any software that requires an installer that asks for your password.
I have seen software installations go sour because the installer did not find everything as and where it should be.
I have also seen software installations go bad because the installer did not clean up after itself properly and did not leave everything as and where it should be.
This is just my own personal opinion and practice based on my own observations. Others may disagree and that’s OK. I can only base my routines and my advice to others on my own experience and conclusion. I don’t pretend to know why others believe otherwise. Note that this suggestion begins with "I advocate", not "Apple recommends ".
Repairing Permissions after the fact (i. e. not immediately before and after an install) may NOT help. Try it anyway, though.
====
Additionally, if your machine does not run 24/7 so that it runs the daily, weekly and monthly Cron Scripts in the middle of the night as intended by Apple, run Cocktail (shareware) as well.
Cron Scripts are maintenance routines designed by Apple to run on a daily, weekly and monthly basis in the middle of the night.
If you don’t run them, you WILL run into trouble, sooner rather than later.
Mac OS X performs background maintenance tasks at certain times if the computer is not in sleep mode. If your computer is shut down or in sleep at the designated times, the maintenance does not occur. In that case, you may want or need to run these manually. Mac OS X periodically runs background tasks that, in part, remove system files that are no longer needed. This includes purging older information from log files or deleting certain temporary items. These tasks do not run if the computer is shut down or in sleep mode. If the tasks do not run, it is possible that certain log files (such as system.log) may become very large. Also, from: <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106978>
The disk activity generated by find is a normal part of file system maintenance, used for tasks such as removing invisible temporary files that are used by the system. It is scheduled to occur early in the morning at 03:15 everyday, 04:30 on Saturdays, and 05:30 on the first day of each month.
NOTE: There have been comments to the effect that Apple "fixed" this in 10.4.2 and later versions of the OS, but I have not been able to verify this to my satisfaction. The reference in the 10.4.2 release notes are far from explicit on this subject.
Other, more reliable reports indicate that this seems to have been fixed in the current version of Leopard.
In any event, Repairing Permissions and/or running the Cron Scripts cannot hurt.
Just launch DiskWarrior and have it Graph your hard disk’s directory. It won’t touch the information on your disk, it will just show you a graphic representation of your directory items.
I haven’t had to run it recently either, but I do notice a small improvement in stability and performance when I do.
There are very good reasons for using DiskWarrior if your System has become sluggish because it is highly possible in that case that your directories have become damaged.
DW can repair that damage and replace the Directory with a new one.
Anyone who wants to know more about the capabilities of a recommended utility, and if they should use it, can always Google it for themselves and read the manufacturer’s web site.
I run DiskWarrior 4.1 whenever things seem to be running less than optimally; and always after installing large software packages such as the CS4 Suite and find that performance improves dramatically after I have run it.
Running DW’s Graph test will indicate the state of your HDs very clearly.
Incidentally, the version that you had for Mac OS 9.2.2 is no use for either Tiger or Leopard however.
It was just that Phos said that he hadn’t used DW in ten years and I wondered if he realised that he would need a newer version if he decided to use it again.
So you do have the current version even if you have never opened it?!
If by "dangerous territory" you mean the same mild apoplexy you feel coming on when I counter your regular recommendation of Cocktail with the suggestion that a problemplagued visitor here instead try the free Onyx, then yeah…
Trying Drive Genius could prompt your short hairs to go into heebie-jeebie mode.
The only reason that I recommend Cocktail instead of Onyx is that my personal experience with Cocktail has been excellent and, having purchased Cocktail aeons ago (all subsequent upgrades have been free), I have had no need to try Onyx.
Obviously I can’t recommend a product that I have never used but you, and others, assure us that Onyx works well too.
"Obviously I can’t recommend a product that I have never used but you, and others, assure us that Onyx works well too."
I understand that, and agree.
But my feeling is that, if a developer wants to put something like Onyx together, and it’s free (as in: Send the guy some money, if you can), and it works really well, and does just about everything as a similar commercial application, why NOT try the free thing first?
That’s why, when I see Cocktail recommended for the functions it’s good for, and I’m feeling motivated, I’ll take the time to educate people who are looking to us for help about an extremely capable, comparable and less expensive alternative.
I am not sure that Onyx even existed when I bought into Cocktail for the wildly expensive price of $15. All subsequent upgrades have been free so there has really been no incentive for me to test Onyx although I accept your word on its merits.
It is not a matter of ‘trying’. We know some of us have already paid for Cocktail. It is a matter of ‘recommending’. We all know that Onyx does what Cocktail does so the idea of recommending a paid app for a problem of which we are uncertain seems odd. Why would anyone suggest that Robin pay for something that may or may not work to correct this particular issue? …especially when MacJanitor is already being used and the machine is left on during normal cron tasks. We’re here to help fellow users, not sell software.
In any event, Repairing Permissions and/or running the Cron Scripts cannot hurt.
No it won’t. But continually auto-pasting permission repair nonsense throughout the forum can hurt by misinforming others. Ramon did well to post links to tech docs on apple.com regarding maintenance that typically runs at night. Why doesn’t he also add an apple.com link to the first part of his auto-paste to clarify his misunderstanding of permission repair?
The entire debate over system maintenance seems very odd for the regulars here. Don’t we know better? It has been long known that SFW can be unusually slow on either platform (just google for ‘slow photoshop save for web’). This is not likely a Mac-specific issue that can be resolved with Mac maintenance. I don’t recall any Adobe representative ever explaining the reason why it happens to some. While system maintenance is certainly a first step to troubleshooting, those of us that want to invest in a heavy discussion on this topic would do well to look deeper into this phenomenon than to dwell on the first basic step of maintenance. It looks like Robin already has the computer operating as it should.
Ann, you do not need to prove how quick it is on your machine.
Revisit this thread <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?128@@.3c05db47> or search the forum for other threads about how slow SFW can be. You’ve likely participated in them as much as I have so you cannot find this thread as a surprise. There is something wrong with SFW that it does not behave consistently.
Look at the initial post from the thread I just linked. Jonathan tried saving files ‘regardless of file size or dimension’. Your resize step has apparently already been considered by at least one of the folks with SFW trouble. Both Robin and Jonathan report sluggishness when clicking the save button. This is clearly not a fluke if at least 2 people report the same problem. Google to find others in the same boat (but never an explanation).
If others are having problems, it has to be related to their hardware and operating methods.
If this were true, Robin would not be having better success with a previous version of Photoshop.
To me it looks like a Hardware/OSX/PEBKAC combination problem because it does NOT happen to ALL users of CS4.
I have already suggested a method for those that are experiencing this problem to fix it for themselves.
Now it is up to them to try some of the suggestions that have been made and let us know if the proffered ideas have helped to ameliorate the situation.
Copy your boot drive to a bigger HD, boot from it and see if the problem goes away. The Op never said how big his boot drive was, but if he has problems when free space is less than 30 GB, he’s in trouble. Or zap the PRAM.
Dear All, thank you for your replies. Having listened to what everyone has said I decided to have an open mind and do a re-install of CS4, running Disk Utility before the installation. Disk Utility revealed a minor problem with the Volume Header which it repaired, (this problem with the Volume Header had not shown up in January.) I then installed CS4 and ran Disk Utility a further time just to make sure, (no problems reported.) Saving for Web Devices now has no problems. Thank you again.
I spoke in haste, there still seems to be problems with ‘Save to Web’ on my particular System. But rather than create a Sisyphus Rock for myself in trying to determine why CS4 Photoshop is unable to do this task, I shall take the easy route and use Photoshop 7. Thank you.
Robin: you mentioned earlier that "Disk Utility revealed a minor problem with the Volume Header which it repaired" but you now say that your problem has returned.
That would indicate that you have more problems with your HD than Disk utility could solve and you may well have a damaged Directory.
Your best chance of fixing that is to run DiskWarrior as we recommended a long time ago.
All we can do is provide information, possible solutions and workarounds. What you do with that is entirely up to you, Robin.
It’s not as if you’re punishing Adobemuch less us fellow usersby reverting to an earlier version of Photoshop. By all means do whatever suits you. It makes zero difference to us at this stage.
I would echo Ann at this point. There are problems that Disk Utility can flag but cannot fix. You need Disk Warrior. Every Mac needs disk Warrior. Every Mac except Phos’s 😉
Sometimes, too, you have to run Disk Utility and other utilities (like Onyx or Cocktail or MacJanitor or what-have-you) more than once for it to fix stuff, because of compound dependencies.
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