Remove 3D New Shape From Layer

JF
Posted By
jay_fresno
Jan 30, 2009
Views
5686
Replies
35
Status
Closed
I’ve applied the 3D > New Shape From Layer command to an image. Now I’d like to remove the 3D shape and apply a different shape. Is there a way to remove the first 3D shape? I’ve searched, but haven’t found a way to do it.

MacBook Pro 16” Mockups 🔥

– in 4 materials (clay versions included)

– 12 scenes

– 48 MacBook Pro 16″ mockups

– 6000 x 4500 px

WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Jan 31, 2009
Here’s what you do!

In the layers panel go to the 3D shape Layer you want to undo. You will not be able to do this but you can recover what you turned into the 3D shape Layer.

At the bottom of the layer you will the name of the file or the layer you converted to 3D Double click on it you will see the original in a new tab. Flatten the image and save it with a new name. Now closed the 3D file with and do a save as with the file you just recover giving it the same name you had before to overwrite the previously closed file. Now you are back to where you where. Or delete the 3D layer and copy and paste the newly restored layer file and save the old document.

I hope this helps.
JF
jay_fresno
Feb 1, 2009
Wade,
THANK YOU! I never would have guessed this solution. There is so much ‘hidden’ stuff to learn when a new version of software is released.
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 1, 2009
You’re welcome!

I hope you are somewhere warmer then New York.
JF
jay_fresno
Feb 1, 2009
I’m in ‘sunny California’ and right now the whether is cool but pleasant. As Californians will tell you, it is never super cold here (ha!)
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 2, 2009
I have decided t take my first trip to Los Angeles in the next couple of weeks.
R
Ram
Feb 2, 2009
Wade,

On business, I hope?
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 2, 2009
Of course. Traveling is part of my business as it is for many photographers.

As a matter of fact photoshop is often part of that traveling experience.
RK
Ronald_Kalstein
Feb 13, 2009
Wade, if I wrap a layer of rasterized text around a 3D sphere from the Shape from Layer command, how can I then delete the sphere, but keep the curved text?
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 14, 2009
Apparently not yet supported. You can use Illustrator to 3D effect to make a globe and the then make the text a symbol and map it to the globe choosing invisible geometry from the map art dialog.

then make it a smart object so you can edit it.

That I think is the best you can do until better support is brought in for the 3D feature.

This would be one of the major uses for the 3D feature but some how it does not seem like it has been made so.
MR
Mark_Reynolds
Feb 14, 2009
"how can I then delete the sphere, but keep the curved text? " – Heres one workaround for this that I discovered…

• From Render Settings choose "unlit texture" • In the sphere material settings (part of the new 3d panel) choose solid white or black for the ‘Diffuse’ color
• finally you can use the advanced blending sliders on the layer to clip out the solid white or black in the layer leaving only the distorted text. Hold down option to split the sliders.

This gives interactive, floating, text distorted around a transparent sphere.

If you need your text to be lit you can duplicate the sphere, choose ‘solid’ from the render settings and group (clipping group) this lit sphere with the unlit one underneath.
RK
Ronald_Kalstein
Feb 14, 2009
Thanks- I’ll give that a try. In the meantime, I wound up selecting the text with magic wand and making new layer from selection. That worked pretty well, as my file is 300 dpi.
JF
jay_fresno
Feb 14, 2009
Mark,

Your workaround worked for me. However, the 3D shading gets lost in the process. I experimented with fixing the shading and came up with a rather clunky workaround:
1) Complete the steps in Mark’s workaround.
2) Create a new layer underneath the rasterized type layer and merge the two layers to remove the white or black.
3) Create a new 3D layer above the type layer using the same shape as the original. In other words, if the type was originally on a sphere, create another sphere layer.
4) Group the two layers. This will put the shading only into the type area.
5) Add a Color Overlay layer style to the top layer (the sphere in this example). Use Overlay as the Blend Mode. This will put the color back into the type.

—————
Wade,
Hope you get some great photos in LA. That’s where I’m from, but live in northern CA now.
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 14, 2009
Well good work arounds, invisible geometry should be supported and I think the work around shows it should be possible to make happen.

thanks for your well wishes.
MR
Mark_Reynolds
Feb 15, 2009
Turns out it is supported Wade, always helps to check that you know what your talking about before spouting off I find.

Ignore what I said before, thought there MUST be a better way than the one I gave earlier, I’ve discovered one which works beautifully…

• You can load whats called an "opacity mask" – this is in the 3D materials tab. Under ‘Opacity’ you can click the small Load icon (with the odd design, looks like a sphere being intersected by a contraceptive device).
• You then need to navigate to an external file which has a greyscale Opacity mask (similar to a layer mask).
• Its apparently even possible to have variable transparency like this, maybe with ray tracing or some other advanced rendering it would work, not tested it fully yet.

Make sure also that ‘hidden faces’ is checked in Rendering settings. This Greyscale Opacity mask must obviously be the same size and relate in terms of content to the texture file
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 15, 2009
Well perhaps you call this supported but I would say if you had the option to have the geometry invisible that would be the proper way to go about this so one day invisible geometry will be supported.

Am I correct?

You know like a not an opacity mask but an option to have the geometry invisible! Rather then navigating to an external file.

I will read up with the help files to locate this Opacity Mask file.
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 15, 2009
BTW why are you using a raster text file?

Would it not be better to use live text?
MR
Mark_Reynolds
Feb 15, 2009
yes I agree with the first point. Bringing in an alpha channel attached to the file, or even inbuilt transparency would be better. Live text yes, but doesn’t look like you can attach that to live transparency yet though.

Certainly it looks a little like the new 3D tools, have been designed from the ‘ouside in’ – by this I mean by people with experience of software like Maya and 3Dmax, and not by people with FULL Photoshop knowledge. CS4 is the beginning of something pretty powerful – but it needs, in terms of interface and usability, not to stray too far from Photoshop. Some of these things need to be re-thought. Pity rendering animation to video is so slow at the moment, its NEARLY there as a full 3D animation tool otherwise.
JF
jay_fresno
Feb 15, 2009
Mark,
Would you mind providing more detailed instructions. I’m puzzled and not able to follow the steps to create a transparency mask and remove the geometry. (It is so simple in Illustrator)
MR
Mark_Reynolds
Feb 16, 2009
Ok step by step
• Make sphere from your text layer, as you have been doing already I guess • in the layers panel double click on your 3D layer, under where it says ‘diffuse’ – this material map will most probably be called what your text says – this opens the text in a new document
• Duplicate this document, this new doc is going to be your Opacity mask • Flatten image.
• Now however you want to do it make the text white and the background black, works the same way as a layer mask, visible areas white, transparent areas black. This file can be greyscale or RGB, (better convert to greyscale I guess if you want to save on file size)
• Save down the document and call it "opacity mask" .psb format is Ok • Open 3D panel. Window/3D – click the 3rd button along, this should now be headed ‘sphere material’
• Down at the bottom of this panel there is a setting called ‘opacity’. • Click the ‘load’ icon on the right of this, and choose ‘Load Texture…" – navigate to your Opacity mask document.

There, should be done. The fact that it takes so long to describe how to do this is not a great reflection on the Interface design of the new 3D features.
JF
jay_fresno
Feb 16, 2009
Mark,
Thanks for patiently explaining the process. Your technique works great.
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 16, 2009
Hi Mark I actually went that route that you took right away but took a few left turns when I should have gone right and a few right turns when I should have gone straight away.

This would be much better if one the interface was much cleaner and clearer and had thing in a more handy fashion. That is instead of trying to save space tabs like opacity and Masking, Alpha Channels, Lighting, Surfaces, Textures, Camera etc.

Right now it is hard to figure out where you are and what to do with the tools you have as someone from Adobe once said to me about this is that 3D modeling is difficult to learn. I question if the 3D feature in Photoshop should offer that degree of difficulty or take the opportunity of correcting the techno hysteria that most programs are conceived on, that is why take the simple way around when you can take a far more complex involved approach.

I can no longer try your technique though I now understand what you wrote before.

Of all the things in the world to happen is that my new graphics card to make the Open GL and 3D work better which was manufactured by Apple will not allow to upgrade the system with a disk or reboot from the install disk as it will not boot form it.

Very strange but not as strange as the 7-10 days they say they need to install the disk even though they have it in stock. The Card was defective some how. Even hough the computer functioned.

I am on a very old Mac that still seems to run well.

So I can not add to this except to vent a little.
R
Ram
Feb 16, 2009
I am on a very old Mac that still seems to run well.

Good for you, Wade! Now don’t make fun of my machine. B)
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 16, 2009
Now…Now…Your machine is still funny!
R
Ram
Feb 16, 2009
😀
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 17, 2009
I am very unhappy about the interface and this issue of the invisible geometry is something that has to be easier and more controllable from the layers and 3D panels.

It is so basic to what one would want from Photoshop’s 3D support.

Along with parallelism when adjusting the camera view. The need for more integration into with vanishing point as well.

These three issue are really important for integrating 3D modes with image compositions whether it be for stills or video or animations of a realistic nature.
SG
steve_guilhamet
Feb 19, 2009
Hi,

From post #8 onward should be a new topic.

To answer most basically, in order to not have part of a 3D mesh display you need to use opacity maps. This is supported in CS4. There also is a way to hide geometry (or make it invisible) but that won’t accomplish what is being asked. It hides whole mesh groups, not just parts of mesh groups.

If you just want to display the text mapped on a sphere, then you need to setup a matching opacity map. The steps to get this setup is pretty quick, if not discoverable (yes the UI has room for improvement). It can also be made so that the text is live and a single file controls both opacity mapping and text color. Finally, once created, a material can be saved out that can be used in the future to cut out some steps.

Below are steps, but I haven’t confirmed most gotchas. There is one known problem that shows up in the Layers panel (No indication that an opacity map is applied). Another thing is to make sure and save a copy of the final file so you don’t overwrite the canned sphere.dae file.

1) create new 1024 x 512 RGB with transparent background
2) with Type tool, create a text string to fit middle third of document space
3) save this file, and close
4) go to File> Open and browse to Ps application folder> Presets> Meshes> Sphere.dae
5) expand the 3D panel, select the Sphere_Material, then click the Diffuse map icon and select ‘Load Texture…’
6) select the text file created above to replace the current map file
7) now click the Opacity map icon and select ‘Load Texture…’
8) again select the text file created above (ok the warning dialog)

You should now just see text wrapping spherically . At this point you can save out a material preset to apply to any 3D shape without having to build the materail from scratch each time. And make sure to Save As…, closing the original Sphere.dae file without saving to keep that preset clean.

To change the text again, just open the Diffuse map file in the 3D layer and edit the text layer. Saving the file will update on the model and affect the Opacity map as well (ie. change text string or size).

Regards,
steve
SG
steve_guilhamet
Feb 19, 2009
Hi Wade,

What is parallelism when adjusting the camera view? Are you asking for a tilt plane control? Or is this just a reference to AI’s terminology?

regards,
steve
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 19, 2009
Well when I adjust my camera or a perspective control lens some call it a tilt shift lens. I keep the camera level so the film plane is perpendicular to sea level. then I raise or lower either the back of the camera or the front element of the lens so as to displace the relative position of the image area to the image circle.

In effect the vertical lines of a building remain parallel to each other and perpendicular to sea level or the ground if you wish.

This way I do not have to tilt the camera to reduce the amount of foreground and maximize the height I can capture in the image area.

Such as in this photo, if i had a fixed barrel lens as most lenses are I would have to tilt the camera causing the film plane to be angled in relation to the planes of the structure which creates converging lines. For architecture this is not usually desired.

Trying to get the controls in the 3D feature to do this does not seem to be 100%.

But it would be possible if there where a plug in in Vanishing point where you can define such parallel planes.

Here is an image and you might see what I mean. Keep in mind the on thing I do not want is to tilt anything.

< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1EkQd81BjaqJmon6qg 7NnZUjmjLRl>
SG
steve_guilhamet
Feb 19, 2009
Thx Wade,

Got it. You want View Camera movements and the ability to edit Rise/Fall, Shift, and Tilt of front and rear planes. I’ll put this in as a feature request; you’re right this currently can’t be achieved in CS4’s 3D camera.

Can you composite in a 3D layer with non-parallel verticals for placement and then perspective transform a rasterized copy to get what you need?
MR
Mark_Reynolds
Feb 19, 2009
Steve – making a clear distinction between CAMERA controls, and the 3D scale and movement in the interface and tool bar would be beneficial. Allowing the same Camera positioning and ‘lens’ settings to an entire document, or group of layers would also make things less complex.

I realise at the moment you are trying to pile as much power in as possible, and 3D is a highly complex area. But its already (only version2) getting a little out of hand in terms of interface. And I think its making it difficult for people to use Photoshop to learn the 3D tools with ease.

I think one of the main challenges would be to try and keep all the power, and at the same time making this power truly accessible. THIS, if its done properly is how Photoshop could find a whole new audience. Because the main barrier at the moment for anyone getting into the existing world of 3D, is the accessibility of the software.
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 19, 2009
Yes I can but I can get pretty close with out rastering the model. That was the problem I referred to a long time ago and you thought i was having trouble with the controls, I guess I was trying to do the impossible but you can get close.

< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1XZke8UeTW0F1XMdLk oSocVfwstRa11>

Large format view camera movements would be helpful…well actually awesome.

And to tell you the truth that feature alone would bring photoshop to the point that every architecture student in the world would have to know and have it as a part of their trainging.

Even the old timers who know nothing about computers or CAD would have to learn if it were that available.

All they would have to do is get three or four models from their Modelers four or five image files from someone like me dissected n a couple of layers and then go to town fooling with it. Even if they did not do the work the idea that they can turn on and off a model layer would put them in the drivers seat in such away they would really feel in command. Which means everyone in the office would have to be able to give them this.

Believe it or not that would make life so much easier for everyone and I would have very good source of income just from doing this type of site photography, which is much easier then photographing the final structure. And less time consuming.

So please! make it happen.
JF
jay_fresno
Feb 22, 2009
Is there a way to rotate or move the object (type or image) that is mapped to a 3D shape, independently of the 3D shape? I know that I can double-click on the image layer and manipulate the image in a separate file window, but it would be very helpful to be able to see both the 3D shape and the image at the same time.
MR
Mark_Reynolds
Feb 23, 2009
You can move the camera or the ‘mesh’ Jay
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Feb 23, 2009
He wants the image on the shape to move so it relative position to the shape is different so the viewer sees the shape as they did before but a different part of the mapped image, text, art.

The only way I know would be to make two layers the one on top with an opacity mask and very carefully rotate the the art on the layer with the opacity mask the problem there is you will see part of the art that goes behind the invisible parts of the top layer.

One of the reasons I was suggesting a fuller more complete method of controlling the the mapping feature.

There maybe a way but Steve or a real 3D modeler person would have to come by and describe it.

It would be a good feature and I do understand like you you can adjust the art on the texture layer no feature to preview.

It should be possible.

I was thinking of tiling the two documents the texture layer and the 3D layer documents but I do not think it updates until you save.

Now hopefully someone will stop by and tell me i am all wet and here is how you do it!
SG
steve_guilhamet
Feb 24, 2009
Hi Jay,

Besides opening the texture map and moving it along side the 3D layer, there are some basic UV edits that can be applied to the diffuse maps. In the Materials section of the 3D panel you should see ‘Edit Properties…’ amongst the pull down list for the diffuse maps. You can change the U and V Offset to move the mapping on the mesh. You can also change the Scale. The utility of this feature is really dictated by how the model was created.

For more advance UV map editing you really need to go back to the model creating/editing application. In Ps, there is no way to select the diffuse map (text or image color) and move it around directly on the 3D object with a drag interaction.

regards,
steve

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