PS3 Auto Align/Blend memory problem with BIG files – Help!

T
Posted By
TLL
May 15, 2007
Views
814
Replies
21
Status
Closed
I have PSCS3 Extended and am creating a hi-resolution aerial photo image that will be printed out at 7 x 9 feet. It is being assembled from 12 separate scans (275mb each). I have done a lot of this work manually in CS2, and got CS3 for the auto align and blend features.

So far I have been able to stack and auto align 3 scans and auto blend them as well (they look awesome!) – but not without having to save and purge all the histories between steps. A working psb file with 3 images merged is around 700mb when opened in CS3, a bit over 1gb saved.

When I try to auto align and blend 2 of these composite images (as flattened 500 mb psds) I continue to get "out of memory" errors, as I have in the past when using the CS3 beta. This still only represents Ā½ of what the final image will be. Adobe staff have assured me that my machine can handle this. At some point it looks like I’ll have to revert back to manual assembly (?)

This is as far as I can get with the current setup. I’ve tried to set the machine up according to Adobe’s optimization guide but I must be missing something. At the point where the app. fails there appears to be plenty of free ram and the page file never exceeds 1.6gb.

The machine specs from CS3 are below so you folks can see what I’m working with. IĀ’m using a Dell 2x P4 2.8G w/3gb ram and 3 10k SCSI disks.

A screen grab of the error and Task Manager window can be seen here: <http://digicyphotodesign.com/Adobe/CS3error.jpg>

If there are more things I can do with this hardware/software setup to enable it to do this kind of work, great. Otherwise I will need to bring more pressure on the powers-that-be to get a new workstation (wish me luck on that).

Thanks for your kind help with figuring out where to go from here.

TLL

Current PC setup:

Adobe Photoshop Version: 10.0 (10.0×20070321 [20070321.m.1480 16:39:00 cutoff; m branch]) Operating System: Windows XP Version: 5.1 Service Pack 2 System architecture: Intel CPU Family:15, Model:2, Stepping:5 with MMX, SSE Integer, SSE FP, SSE2
Physical processor count: 2 Processor speed: 2790 MHz
Built-in memory: 3071 MB
Free memory: 2592 MB
Memory available to Photoshop: 1598 MB
Memory used by Photoshop: 71 %
Image cache levels: 4
Serial number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS3\ Temporary file path: C:\Temp\
Photoshop scratch has async I/O enabled
Scratch volume(s):
C:\, 68.3G, 34.9G free
D:\, 68.5G, 39.3G free
E:\, 33.9G, 27.1G free

NOTE – scratch drive order is 1. E (PS scratch only) 2. D (data drive) 3. C program files

Primary Plug-ins folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS3\Plug-Ins\
Additional Plug-ins folder: not set
Installed plug-ins: Default Plug-ins that failed to load: NONE Installed TWAIN devices: NONE
Related Tags
align auto big blend file help memory problem

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Adam_Jerugim
May 15, 2007
Try changing the % of RAM allocated to PS to under 1GB (~55%) and see if this still occurs. Also, are you using CS3 with Bigger Tiles enabled?
T
TLL
May 15, 2007
Thanks Adam, yes I’m using the bigger tiles, and it doesn’t seem to matter much where the % ram setting is. I’ll try again tomorrow and post the results.

TLL
KS
Kenneth_Seidman
May 15, 2007
Have you tried using the / 3GB boot.ini switch? I read a post in another forum from a user who only has 3 GB of RAM like you and the switch worked for him. (Most users use this switch when then have 4 GB of RAM. BTW it works with both XP Home and XP Pro and it can be helpful to add the /userva switch for ‘fine tuning’ to improve system stability).

You might also want to try reducing the image cache levels to 2 or even 1, I use it sometimes like that. My typical starting file size is 350 MB from scanned 6×7 cm transparencies and I’ll be upgrading to CS3 next week… so I am following your progress !
T
TLL
May 16, 2007
I sent some images to Adobe and they say I should be able to do this w/o any problems for my system setup (they can!). Pointing me toward Windows virtual memory settings and having adequate swap drive space for PS (I do!). I’m looking into these things from home and will do further testing when I get back to work. Thanks for the tips Ken, my system shows the 3 GB ram and I’ll look at the cache levels too.

Later, TLL
T
TLL
May 17, 2007
Quick update – I continue to have the problem of CS3 memory error crashing with this operation. I have replicated it on three diferent Win XP pro sytems of varying power. Adobe is working with me on it (I’m following their advice – thank you Jeff) but since I need to get the job done I will proceed to do it the ‘old’ way – by hand in CS2. I may not get back to this issue for awhile, but this is a serious deal. It’s one of the main reasons I had my employer drop 350 bucks for the upgrade.

12 hours of troubleshooting later, the benefits have yet to accrue.

I’ll keep you posted, TLL
KS
Kenneth_Seidman
May 18, 2007
"it’s one of the main reasons I had my employer drop 350 bucks for the upgrade"

….and it’s one of the main reasons I just purchased CS3. It will arrive next week.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Ken
T
TLL
Jun 4, 2007
Good News! After much tweaking and twitching of settings I have been able to auto assemble and blend up to 22 300mb Files. And they look awesome!

Scratch files balloon to over 30GB in size, plenty of room there is important, as is page file settings and allocation. I’m making serious notes of what the system’s setup is because there are still performance issues outside of CS3 that I know can be improved with a disk wipe and re-install of everything.

Hats off to Jeff Chien @Adobe for his knowledge, personalized attention and encouragement.

I’m a happy camper now.

TLL
KS
Kenneth_Seidman
Jun 4, 2007
TLL,

Thanks for the feedback. I would be very interested in learning how you got this to work (page file settings, percent RAM allocated to CS3, other settings, processing time, etc).

I just installed CS3 yesterday, all went smoothly. I was able to use Auto Align on two (not 22 !) 350 MB files successfully although it appears the alignment was off one or two pixels which I was able to correct with the Move tool (nudge arrow keys).

Have you noticed any small alignment errors in your work?

Ken
T
TLL
Jun 4, 2007
Ken –

Q: Have you noticed any small alignment errors in your work?

A: Yes, all the time especially w/aerial images. It doesn’t bother me because CS3 is doing 80-95% of the work with little intervention on my part. With these image sizes a couple of pixels is more than acceptable for most uses. Larger misalignments are repaired using a cut-paste-transform routine that is second nature to me now.

As far as system settings go I’ll try to get something up on that, as long as you aren’t getting out-of-memory or other crashes I’d think you should be good to go with the default installation.

When building a work image running 1.5 – 3GB don’t expect any record breaking times, I do hang out on the ‘net while CS3 churns away.

Good Luck!

TLL
KS
Kenneth_Seidman
Jun 5, 2007
I started getting out-of-memory (not enough Virtual RAM) ‘crashes’ today.

As background I’ve got 4 GB of RAM and use the /3 GB switch with /userva=2900. Windows XP Home, Service Pack 2, Dell Dimension 8400. CS3 indicates available RAM is 2494 MB. I don’t have any other applications open, although the virus checker is running. I’ve been using the /3GB switch (with CS1 and other apps) for a month or so and my system has been stable.

My first problem was with Merge to HDR, trying to combine two 340 MB files. I modified the % RAM allocated to Photoshop from 55% up to 90% in 5% increments. Each time the Merge process would fail with an error message from Version CueIU.dll. I finally managed to get this command working by unchecking the Edit/Preferences box for using VersionCue, i.e. VersionCue is now not being used and the Merge to HDR is okay (so far).

My second problem is unsolved.

I open a 350 MB file and try to use the new B/W command to convert the color image (Layer/New Adjustment Layer/Black and White). I have modified most everything I can think of but always get a message indicating I don’t have enough Virtual Memory (RAM). I’ve tried % RAM allocations of 70% to 95%, using ‘Bigger Tiles’, using only Cache =2.

I also modified the Windows XP System Virtual Memory as indicated in the Adobe Tech Note "Optimize performance of Photoshop CS3 on Windows XP…", page 8 (of 11). I am now using "Custom Size" with the Initial and Max Page size set to 4096 MB. I tried to set these to 2x4GB and 4x4GB as indicated in the Tech Note but Windows throws a message indicating that the max one can allocate is 4096 MB. Is there a way around this limit?

Any ideas on how to optimize my system so I don’t keep hitting the not enough Virtual Memory messages would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken
L
LenHewitt
Jun 5, 2007
I’ve tried % RAM allocations of 70% to 95%<<

You would probably be better backing that off rather than increasing it – try 45% or 55%
T
Thundercross
Jun 5, 2007
Can I ask why backing down to 45 – 55%? Is your physical RAM not faster than your page file on your hard drive?
T
Thundercross
Jun 5, 2007
I have 4 gigs physical ram with the 3/gb switch enabled, now photoshop sees 2692MB of RAM, and obviously I want it to make use of the 4 gigs i purchased…..??
JJ
John_Joslin
Jun 5, 2007
See < http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/knowledgebase/index.cfm?id=3200 05>
KS
Kenneth_Seidman
Jun 5, 2007
Quote from above:

"My second problem is unsolved.
I open a 350 MB file and try to use the new B/W command to convert the color image (Layer/New Adjustment Layer/Black and White)… "

Thanks for the suggestions above which I followed, but my problem remains.

Here is a summary of what I have tried so far. In each case the last column ‘B/W test’ is a ‘Fail’ (i.e. not enough Virtual Memory message). I forgot to mention above (10:52pm Jun 4, 07 PST (#10 of 14) that CS3 is installed on C:, CS3 Primary scratch disk is 10.5 GB on its on F: partition on another drive E:. Secondary scratch disk on E: (25 GB free). The Windows Page File is on C: Both physical disks (C,E:) are defragmented, all Temp files removed. I have about 100 GB free on C:

Sorry if the column headings don’t line up (not sure how this will post)…

/3-GB-On-? /userva CS3-%RAM Hist-States Cache-Levels Bigger-Tiles Windows-XP-Page-File VersionCue Launch-Bridge B/W-test
y 2800 70 16 2 y "Custom 4 GB, 4 GB on E:" Disabled n Fail y 2800 70 16 2 n "Custom 4 GB, 4 GB on E:" Disabled n Fail y 2800 50 16 2 n "Custom 3 GB, 4 GB on C:" Disabled n Fail y 2800 55 16 2 n "Custom 3 GB, 4 GB on C:" Disabled n Fail n N/A 45 16 2 n "Custom 3 GB, 4 GB on C:" Disabled n Fail n N/A 70 16 2 n "Custom 3 GB, 4 GB on C:" Disabled n Fail n N/A 85 16 2 n "Custom 3 GB, 4 GB on C:" Disabled n Fail y 2950 85 16 2 n "Custom 3 GB, 4 GB on C:" Disabled n Fail y 2950 70 4 2 n "Custom 3 GB, 4 GB on C:" Disabled n Fail

I did get the B/W test to run by decreasing the file size down to about 40 MB, so the command is not totally ‘broken’.

Any ideas?

Ken
T
TLL
Jun 5, 2007
Hey Ken, sorry to hear of your troubles. If you refer to my OP you’ll see that my box has 3GB RAM and 3 drives, one boot (c) one data (d) and one for PS scratch (e). The other is a removable disk.

The screengrabs below show how I have them setup as well as the memory settings for CS3. I’m giving the Win XPpro OS a fair amountof ‘headroom’ as far as memory is concerned. I believe my troubles were cured by using these page file settings.

Note I’m not creating a PF on my CS3 scratch drive, so there should be no conflict there.If you can’t setup the virtual memory this way, I deleted the "pagefile.sys" from all my drives (you may need to make those visible in win explorer view settings) and then rebooted. Then I was good to go on making the changes.

TLL
KS
Kenneth_Seidman
Jun 5, 2007
TTL,

Thanks for the detailed description!

I should start by saying that I have no Virtual Memory problems for large files (350 MB) when using Merge to HDR, Photomerge, or AutoAlign for two large file cases. (Have not yet tried 3+ files yet). Also I had no problems creating an 11 layer (16 bit/channel) file this morning; the Photoshop scratch disk file was about 3 GB when I got through, and the final document size was 1.7 GB as I recall. (This is something I could never do with my older setup – CS1 and 2 GB or RAM.)

Since the only place I have problems is with the Layer/New Adjustment Layer/Black-and-White command I am thinking that the B/W command either has a MUCH more severe memory requirement (or a bug) compared to any other CS3 layer command (curves, levels, brightness/contrast, hue/sat, etc).

Your setup is a bit different from mine but the use of two Paging files (one on C:, one on D:) is something I will try when I get home tonight. I didn’t try this because on my system I have only two internal drives (C, E) and a second Page file on E might conflict with the Photoshop Scratch disk – a separate partion of 10.5 GB on E.
I have no evidence that the 10.5 GB scratch disk is insufficient in size, but that is another difference between our setups.

I have 1 GB more RAM than you, total of 4 GB… so this should work to my advantage. The memory available to CS3 on my setup is about 2.5 GB (versus 1.6 GB for you). I have tried some cases with pretty low percentage allocations (as you can see in my above post) but no joy. Have also cut Cache Levels and Histo states low, no help there either.

So, based on your info I will try the two Page File setup with your settings tonight. I will post what I find.

If that doesn’t work I guess I will contact Adobe Tech Support. As I mentioned, I suspect the problem is with the B/W command. I have got it to work for some of my trials with files as large as 205 MB, but any larger and I get out of memory message.

Thanks again,

Ken
T
TLL
Jun 5, 2007
Adobe tech suggested that I try using my big Lacie 300GB external drive as scratch at one point – maybe you might look into that for a three drive option if you have a removable.

I’d strongly recommend a third disk for a non page filed PS scratch drive. I wouldn’t need to be much, 40-100GB? Most everyone has something laying around. I’m using a very old 4GB Micropolis AV SCSI in my box @home for that. Although I’ll be swapping it for a 18GB 10k LVD in the near future.

I’ll give that B/W thingy a try later, I usually convert to GS and then right back to RGB for adjusting to print gray scale to the HP5000.

Good Luck. TLL
KS
Kenneth_Seidman
Jun 5, 2007
TTL,

Yes, I have a removable USB drive with 100+ GB free. I will try that approach for a PS scratch drive implementation. My two page files will then be on C and E, independent of the Photoshop scratch file.

It will be very interesting to see if you have the same B/W command problem I have with one of your large files. I used the crop command to reduce the file size from 350 MB downward until I got the B/W conversion to work. I used the Edit/Purge after each attempt. A few times I also restarted Photoshop, cropped, and ran the B/W command on a reduced size, just to make sure there were no memory leak problems. I am also not certain if the 205 MB limit I found is repeatable for each Photoshop session… I saw some inconsistent behavior.

Ken
KS
Kenneth_Seidman
Jun 6, 2007
Using the same dual Page File setup (see post #16) and also setting the Photoshop CS3 Scratch disk to be a 100+ GB external hardrive did not work! My History States = 4, Cache Levels = 2, Avaiable RAM for Photoshop = 2540 MB. Also varied the percent of RAM used by Photoshop over a large range (started at 55%).

As reported previously, everything is working fine with large files (350 MB) EXCEPT the new Black&White command.

Until someone has a counter-example I am assuming the Black&White command has a bug. Too bad, when it works (files less than 200 MB on my system) it is a very nice tool.

I am out of ideas !

Ken
KS
Kenneth_Seidman
Jun 8, 2007
Problem solved.

Adobe Tech Support suggested I follow their Tech Note, Trouble Shooting… CS3. I created a new user account, opened CS3, modified a few Preferences and ran the B/W command successfully on a 350 MB file. I then transferred the Preferences file (*.psp) to my original user account and now that works too.

Thanks to Adobe Tech Support for their rapid an accurate suggestions. Ken

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