SFW and date created

I wrote an action that takes an image, any workspace (AdobeRGB in my case) and converts the image to sRGB then Saves for Web and saves the image in a folder.

What I noticed is that the Date Created changes?!!

Why would the creation date change?

Because you just created a new file.

Date created has nothing to do with the date the photo was taken or the date you created the original. It's the date of creation of the new file.

Let me elaborate then. Was trying to write verbose. Bummer.

I am opening ACR using DNGs to port to PS CS4. I then edit in PS. I can Save As to create a PSD file. I could then convert to sRGB then Save As and have a JPG file. All of those would retain the original date.

But when I SFW, then it is today's date.

I didn't create a new file, but modified the existing to create PSD and JPG files. Same file. Different extension. This is why earlier I did not use the SFW but used just a Save As to create my sRGB files.

SFW always creates a new file. Period.

I am opening ACR using DNGs to port to PS CS4. I then edit in PS. I can Save As to create a PSD file. I could then convert to sRGB then Save As and have a JPG file.

You're not clear on the concept at all.

When you open a raw or DNG file, the image is only in RAM. Using Save As at that point is exactly the same as creating a new file, because you're not dealing with the raw or DNG any more but a conversion thereof.

Take an existing PSD or TIFF file, do a Save As. The new file will bear today's date as created date.

randalqueen, the only command that will not change the Date Created is the Save command. Any other command (Save As, Export, Save for Web) must create a new file. If a file has a different extension (format) from the original, it can't possibly be the same information, so it can't be the same file. So it's a new file with a new date.

However, there can be more than one date stored in a JPG. What you will probably find is that if you preserve the EXIF information in the JPG, you'll get this:

Date Time Original a.k.a. Capture Time: (Time when the image was shot; never changes) Date Created: (Time when file was created; changes whenever you make a new version)

If you are trying to track files by their shot date, you can view them in Bridge or any other viewer that reads camera info, and sort by Capture Time instead of Date Created.

Thank you both.

Ramon, you were correct that I was not clear on the concept, so I asked. And looking back at my action, I was using SAVE and not Save As... so again - you w e r e r i g h t. That's hard to say ;)

Conrad, thanks for the tip.

To my utter amazement and disbelief, Save As is preserving the Date Created. ???

I am confused, to say the least.

Conrad, I would have agreed with you and even bet money until a couple of minutes ago.

This leaves me scratching my head…

I thought so.... !!

I got something right!

See, what sense does it make... LOL...

Wait! I was right the first time, and so is Conrad.

Look at the creation and modification dates in the Finder.

What happens is that Bridge has the ability to show both a "date Created" and a "Date File Created" date, which are not necessarily the same.

But the Finder does not lie. :)

Ah, but because I use Bridge, I was hoping to have the SFW also show the original date. Bummer.

I don't use Finder to see when the image was created because of the convenience of Bridge.

Strange that one can Save As but not SFW and retain the info easily read by Bridge.

While we are on the discussion of actions, how does one have the action ported to a txt file? I know it can be done or have heard of this but how?

Thanks

I don't use Finder to see when the image was created

The Finder shows you the date the file was created, not the original.

You can check that in File Info at the bottom of the Bridge File menu.

Ah, yes... file info does show the actual date the photo was taken.

I just think Bridge should be able to show this info without having to go thru file info menus.

I guess what I am saying, I don't like that SFW will label the file with today's date when you can also see the file's original date.

I know SFW is really exporting an image. I just think that if there is an original date, that date should carry along with the file in a view that is easier to see. We can always see when we modify the file. But the date now assigned just because I SFW means literally nothing to me.

Oh, well... one of those things I won't understand and will work around.

thanks again Ramon

I don't like that SFW will label the file with today's date

It should be so.

Ok, I'll bite...

why should it be so? if you can keep the original date the photo was taken and also see when it was modified, then why put a date on it that shows when you created a version for the web? That could just be the modified date.

So - why should it be so?

just curious...

Randal:

Go to Bridge Prefs/Thumbnails

There, you can choose to have Date Created and/or Date Modified show-up under every thumbnail.

You can also Sort using either of those designations.

Ann,

That doesn't address RQ's image at all.

RQ,

why should it be so?

Because it is a system wide convention. It refers to the creation of the computer file, the date the photo was taken is utterly irrelevant to this.

You can generate a new file on a word processor and date a letter to your creditors to whatever you want, but the file was created today. It applies to any and all files on your computer. It would be nothing less than idiotic not observe the date of creation of the data file on your computer.

That doesn't address RQ's issue at all.

Surely it does because "Date Created" means the date that the shot was taken (or the film scanned (i.e. the time and date that the image was originally CREATED in digital form — and that is immutable.

"Date Modified" means the date the FILE was created (that is what changes); but the IMAGE contained within the new file retains its original date of creation.

Both dates show in Bridge's metadata, and sorting can be done using either to determine precedence.

The Finder shows both Date Created and/or Date Modified in List View but it doesn't use Date Created to preserve, and display, the date that the IMAGE itself was created — it always refers to the date that the FILE containing the Image was created.

Surely it does because "Date Created" means the date that the shot was taken (or the film scanned (i.e. the time and date that the image was originally CREATED in digital form — and that is immutable.

Or the date the file was "Saved As", as in the case of using save for web. Just as the scan date is not the date the pic was taken.

Ann,

Surely it does because "Date Created" means the date that the shot was taken

Not in the line of info that appears under the thumbnail. There, Date Created refers to the creation of the file, not the date you shot the image. It contradicts the nomenclature in Metadata. :/

I must have a different version of Bridge CS4 because I have just checked in both List View and Details:
Date Created shows time & date of making the original exposure in the camera; and Date Modified shows time & date of saving any subsequently modified new file containing that image (whether Saved out of ACR; or as a Save As to a new name or format; or as a SFW JPEG (if I save metadata while using SFW).

Ann,

I had Copyright and Contact info for metadata and not all. Later I will try that and see if that helps. Thank you.

Ann,

We're talking about two different things. I'm not talking about List View or Details View; I'm talking about thumbnail view, which is the only view I ever use.

If you choose one of the four info lines there to be Date Created, Bridge will show the date of the creation of the data file, not the date the shot was taken.

That contradicts what you see in File Info for that particular file.

If you want to see the full thumbnail data, you do need to use either List or Details — if you use Thumbnail View, you need to have the Metadata/File Properties Panel open too.

You can still have a Preview panel with all three viewing modes.

randalqueen: Action to Text, from the help file.
Press Ctrl+Alt (Windows) or Command+Option (Mac OS) when you choose the Save Actions command to save the actions in a text file. You can use this file to review or print the contents of an action. However, you can’t reload the text file back into Photoshop.

Thank you Paul. Just didn't have a chance yet to see where to look for that info. I appreciate.

Yes Ann... thank you! Exactly what I was looking to do. Yea...

Great!

In the List view, you can choose to organise the order in which the items are listed under any of the headings by clicking that Heading.

Also note that SFW is DESIGNED to strip all metadata including PPI from a file...so what you end up exporting is a wholly new file without any of the embedded metadata except for those few fields you can retain. Since this is as designed (to get the smallest web ready image) this isn't a bug but a feature.

Jeff:

In CS4, SFW does give you several options to save metadata including "All" — which appears to do exactly as it says and preserve all camera and file date data.

which appears to do exactly as it says and preserve all camera and file date data.

Yes, but by default it removes all metadata...you have to disable the default (although the settings ARE recordable in an action).

Anne,

Have you at any point tested this, and if so have you verified that the EXIF is viewable in other applications (besides bride, etc.)?

On Windows, it isn't, the jpgs are still neutered re: EXIF. I'd be curious to know if this bug doesn't exist in the Mac version. Thanks.

"In CS4, SFW does give you several options to save metadata including "All" — which appears to do exactly as it says and preserve all camera and file date data. "

Neil N,

Are you addressing Ann Shelbourne?

Don't worry: she answers to both no-"E" and +"E". :)

Yes, i have tested it and even files placed at Pixentral, and then re-downloaded from there, retain the full EXIF date when viewed in Bridge CS4 or when opened in Photoshop.

I have left all metadata attached to any DIGITAL photographs that I have posted in the Photography Forum in case the data was of interest to other photographers.

Such as this one:
< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=15QRl5yyZbc2TAm9t3 rooKD6KGMq0>

Lovely macro shot, Ann!

Thank you! But that lens did all the work!

Ann,

Thanks for the reply. I'm so sorry about the misspell, and I see I spelled bridge as bride. Too many open windows... I don't know how you posted the image in-line in the message, I couldn't figure it out. But here is what your EXIF data looks like to a non-adobe, very standard & generic web-based app like Firefox w/ the exif viewer add-on:

<http://www.wildsuburbia.com/private/ann.jpg>

If you've got some time you may want to look here:

<http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b774b7/4>

If you can get past my sarcasm ;), there may be something of interest. The hope was that CS4 would allow you to preserve the EXIF data in images Saved For Web in such a way that folks might actually be able to use that data in the typical places (flickr, for example) that these web images wind up. So far, does not appear to be the case.

I'd love to be wrong about this, but so far, no one who's replied has been able to produce a file w/ proper "world-readable" EXIF from CS4's Save For Web. I'm using Gallery2 v2.3 (current) for my website. This is one of the most widely used image gallery scripts in the world, and it can't make heads or tails of CS4's EXIF. Unless, of course, I "Save As". My point is that "Save As", and "Save for Web" Metadata-All ought to produce identical metadata. They do not.

___
Neil

Neil N,

If you drag Ann's image to your desktop and open it in Bridge or Photoshop, all the metadata is there.

I would think that it is extremely unlikely that a web-browser can reach into an <href> image and extract the metadata.

I don't know who hoped for that because any one seriously interested in an image's metadata will be using a professional graphics program in which to view the image.

As Ramón said, download my photograph to your desktop and track it in Bridge CS4 with the Metadata Panel open.

It's all there: File Properties, Camera, IPTC Core and Edit History metadata.

Ann,

There are Firefox add-ons that allow you to look at the EXIF data by Control-clicking on the image on the web on certain sites (I use one called FxIF, for instance), but it doesn't work at Pixentral.

I imagine that is because of the way that Pixentral has set up their Servers — possibly using Flash?

I have just downloaded and tried FxIF and it doesn't work on my own Galleries which are Flash-based.

Next time I run into a site where it works, I'll let you know. :)