On my G4 Mac running 10.5.5 and an Epson 4000 printer, using the latest Epson driver, prints using Photoshop CS3 look great, but the same settings in Photoshop CS4 give very dark images.
I can run the two applications side by side comparing the "Color Settings …" and the various options in the print dialog boxes. There appear to be very few new options. Having everything the same gives very different printed results. I’ve tried changing some of the new features like "Compensate for Scene-referred Profiles" and they make no difference.
On my calibrated screen, images look identical in PS3 and PS4. Only when printed is there a difference.
I’ve been using Adobe RGB 1998 color space for some time now with Photoshop doing the color management. The color adjustment switch in the print dialog box is off. I use the same printer profiles in both versions of PS.
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I have news for you, Gordon: there are CS4 users who are going back to CS2 and even CS for printing. Printing from CS4 and CS3 is a hit-or-miss affair in Leopard. I won’t be going anywhere near 10.5.x, ever.
Since printing from PS3 has been working just fine for me, I was not aware of these problems. There are new features in PS4 that I like, but it look like I’ll be using PS3 for printing.
Hi Gordon Just a quick shot at a solution here as it’s past my bed time in the UK and I need my beauty sleep – and no Photoshop ain’t that good!
Anyway I’ve had the same issue as yourself but with a MacPro running 10.5.5 and CS4 to an Epson 7600 which is about the same generation of machine and driver as your 4000. Note that I also have a R2400 and a Xerox A3 Laser hooked up to the same Mac and I found the cure to my problem was to do the following: 1. Quit Photoshop 2. Go to System Preferences > Print & Fax 3. Set the printer you are going to use as the Default Printer 4. Close the System Preferences and open Photoshop 5. Open your image and got to File > Print At this point make sure that the printer has been selected automatically as the default printer in the top centre of the Print panel. 6. Select ‘Photoshop Manages Color’ 7. Choose the correct paper/printer profile 8. Click ‘Print’ and set the drivers Color Management to ‘No Color Adjustment’
I think this solution works by forcing the ColorSync system to choose the correct default profile. Hope it works for you as well, let me know if it doesn’t as I may have a different solution for you.
Making the Epson printer the default device corrects the problem. Tomorrow I’ll have to try something on the Brother laser printer to see if it is messed up by not being the default printer. Switching the default in Print & Fax is easier than using an old version of Photoshop to do my printing.
This is the same "fix" that fixed the weird Colorsync skintone posterization problem a year and a half ago or so. I guess anyone still setting their printer as the default printer wouldn’t be seeing the problem. Sounds like good advice going forward for the time being.
Essentially, with the newer Leopard APIs, the recommended approach is for a printer driver to register its printer profiles to the system (i.e., Leopard). That is, the driver needs to provide a default profile to Leopard so that Leopard can provide the appropriate color matching. The default profile provided usually is a function of the color mode (e.g., RGB color or black-and-white), media type, resolution, etc.
CS4 was updated to use the newer printing APIs (a requirement moving forward) and hence relies on the driver providing the correct default profile. If the driver doesn’t do this, then Leopard will provide its own default profile, which is obviously not the correct printing profile and will have the side effect of making prints appear too dark and possibly with a strong color cast.
(BTW, this is exactly what was going on with some Canon iPF printers recently with many users blaming Adobe for introducing printing bugs in CS4, when the real issue was the driver not correctly providing the default profile to Leopard. The issue was resolved a couple of days ago when Canon released an updated driver.)
(BTW, this is exactly what was going on with some Canon iPF printers recently with many users blaming Adobe for introducing printing bugs in CS4, when the real issue was the driver not correctly providing the default profile to Leopard. The issue was resolved a couple of days ago when Canon released an updated driver.)
Not exactly. The issue was being forced to use Colorsync resulting in double profiling (why the CU workaround worked) instead of being able to select or defaulting to No Correction.
The latest drivers default to No Correction instead of ColorSync thus no double profiling. We do not want Leopard or the Printer driver to provide profiles when setting PSCS4 or LR2.1 to Manage Colors.
Yes, Leopard and the printer driver still need to provide appropriate profiles even when using CS4 or LR 2 to manage colors (i.e., application manages colors, instead of printer manages colors). This is simply the way color matching under Leopard works. You’ll have to trust me on this, unless you want to read a lot of ColorSync, Core Graphics, and Quartz documentation yourself. (I’m sure you have better things to do.)
As I’ve mentioned to you previously, on the Epson side the Color Matching tab in Leopard is "forced to use ColorSync" but color matching still works correctly. The key is to have valid default profiles provided by the driver to the OS.
As I’ve mentioned to you previously, on the Epson side the Color Matching tab in Leopard is "forced to use ColorSync" but color matching still works correctly. The key is to have valid default profiles provided by the driver to the OS.
Or custom profiles for the selected media set in the ColorSync Utility.
Some Epson drivers maybe but the new Canon drivers not. What your really saying is what applies to canned profiles from or for the Printer. If your being "forced to use ColorSync" none of this really works for custom profiles and media that is not listed in the CU but is available in the driver. I am not familiar enough with Epson printers to say wether all media available to the driver is listed in CU, but with the iPF Canon printers they are not all listed in CU.
I would need test with LR2.1 and PSCS4 to see if changing the profile for the default setting (for unlisted media) in CU makes a difference. But I do know that with PSCS3 changing that default profile did not make any difference.
You’ll have to trust me on this, unless you want to read a lot of ColorSync, Core Graphics, and Quartz documentation yourself. (I’m sure you have better things to do.)
You can read all you want but I can tell you (trust me on this) about what actually works when using these tools, printing everyday.
Hi All: I have been experienbcing similar printing problems. I recently changed platforms from PC to I-MAC. I used LR2 and CS4 on the windows based machine and printed on my Epson R1800 (using Epson ICC profiles)with very good results. Not so on the I-Mac. Using the same workflow (in either LR 2.2 and CS4) the print oputput is too dark, way too dark. I think that the problem results from double profiling as discussed above but I don’t know a work around for this problem except to lighten the image and then print it, a hit and miss process that uses lots of ink and paper to produce a suitable print.
Is there asny way to turn one of the profiles off?
The other thread is farther down the list for the Photoshop Mac forum, about 36 comments. I’ve followed all of these suggestions. Nothing seems to help. I can increase the exposure of the image and get a reasonable print @Levels +1.30. This is a hit and miss (mostly miss) process that uses a lot of ink and paper and defeats the purpose of working in a color managed environment. It does seem to be a MAC/Adobe/Epson problem and we may not be a big enough user group to warrant their attention.
I’m not a techie but the problem does seem to be double profiling. Both the MAC ColorSync utility and Photoshop Utility employ the ICC profile at the same time, not once as in CS3, but twice and I really haven’t found a work around to defeat one selection that works. Cheers to all ,
I know exactly what your talking about. I don’t think your going to get Adobe or Apple to make any changes. They seems to be bent on trying to make this idiot proof and force things on the driver.
If Canon can make the necessary changes then so can Epson. I would suggest you get on Epson’s case about this.
Assign Profile: Generic RGB Profile Print from CS4 (default printer): Printer Manages Color Intent setting don’t matter In the Epson print dialogue: Set the media type Color Settings: EPSON VIVID Best photo
This solved my problem wonderfully with Epson DS Matt paper. A really close screen print match! I’ll try Premium Luster next.
Note, that advice was given by Eric Chan only in the context of jumping through hoops in order to compensate for a ghastly printing experience under Leopard using the Advanced B&W printing mode in some Epson printer(s).
Per post #28 Eric’s advice works just as well for Epson Premium Luster paper also. Finally prints that match. After reading Eric’s posts again it makes sense.
Tom I’m wondering if this works for you also on your R1800.
You do realize that by converting to a grayscale profile and then assigning a different profile, one is introducing tonal shifts that may at first sight benefit the prints that are coming out wrong, don’t you?
The test, of course, would be to compare that print with a print obtained in a system where it’s not necessary to jump through hoops and introduce an uncontrolled shift/boost, say by printing from CS and Tiger. Only then can you tel you if anything has been blocked, shifted or blown out in the print beyond that which can be observed on the monitor screen.
I just bought my Mac and don’t have the option of going back to a previous operating system. It does seem that Leopard is the problem, not Adobe or Epson. I’m stuck and will have to use my old Windows workstation and CS3 to make prints until someone can come up with a fix for this problem. I suppose that I could use something like a Color Burst RIP but that would necessitate buying another printer.
By the time CS4/10.5 printing gets worked out, my guess is 10.6 will start the process over with a new set of issues (as CS2 did with the posterized red tones)…
There should be, but it’s limited to the media listed in CU. The default (standard on my 9600) probably would work with other media settings. You’ll have to test that though.
As cheap as the Canon iPF5100s are I think you should just buy one and forget this whole Epson/Adobe/Apple mess.
I just made a print in CS4 on my epson 9600 – For some reason, all my old paper sizes from CS3 are corrupted. What should have been a 17" wide paper came out as a 22" paper size.
I may have to rebuild all my custom paper sizes for the 3 wide Epson printers here.
I am using a Mac Pro with OS 10.5.6 (the latest upgrade).
I still have CS3 loaded – and I may revert to that until I have time to get the page setup sizes redone.
There are always some bumps. I switched to CS4 for only one reason – to be able to use the burn tool without making whites and colors turn gray.
I got pretty excited about Jason’s default printer solution, but alas it didn’t work, due to my set-up. I started a new thread before seeing this one (Thanks for your response DYP), and wanted to move over to this. Here’s what I wrote before (I’ve left it intact, in case there’s anything in there that can be of help):
I have just started using a trial of Photoshop CS4, but am having problems printing. My setup is somewhat unusual, but has been working just fine with CS2. I’m working on a Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5 with 4.5Gb ram, running OS 10.4.11. That is networked to a Dual 867MHz PowerPC G4 with 1.25Gb ram, running OS 10.3.9. My Epson R2400 printer is connected to the G4. I have set it up like this because my office is quite small, and I have my printers and G4 in another room.
When I made my first print from CS4, it was very dark. I closed CS4, opened the file in CS2 and made another print. It was fine. I closed CS2 again and opened the file in CS4. I then moved my printer into my office and connected it directly to the G5 and made another print. It was very dark, just like the first. Next, I logged out and logged back into a test account, which has just basic OS apps enabled. I started CS4, opened the file, and printed it. It was fine (slightly different in color, but almost the same as the one that I had printed from CS2). Assuming that the problem was in my admin account, I reconnected the printer to the networked G4, and from my test account, made another print. Again it was very dark.
In all cases, I am letting Photoshop manage the color, using the same paper, profile, and rendering intent, etc. Color management is turned off and the printer settings are checked each time I make a print.
I’m beginning to think that I just cannot print through the G4 unless I upgrade the OS, but if someone could shed some light on this…
Here’s are the other things I’ve tried: Removing and replacing (renaming) printer from the printer list. Trashed the CS4 prefs and let it make new ones. Trying to print after booting up in safe boot mode (unable to choose any printer though in that instance). Re-installed the Epson printer driver on the G4.
Ramón – That’s not what I’m doing. I’m following Eric’s instructions as reiterated by Ann in this thread. I use a color profile to start not a B&W profile. Somewhere in the original thread he stated using it either way. In any case the test prints that I’m using are wide gamut Photomatrix prints that use a wide range of colors and they finally look great!
Sorry, I don’t quite understand. You mean directly, via USB? In my somewhat lengthy post, I described how I can print fine with CS2 from my the G5 via the networked G4, using my normal account settings.
Sorry, I don’t quite understand. You mean directly, via USB? In my somewhat lengthy post, I described how I can print fine with CS2 from my the G5 via the networked G4, using my normal account settings.
Sorry I missed that. Then I would look at what changes need to be made in regards to printing from the PSCS4.
Hopefully someone here that has the same setup and can give some input into whether you can get correct prints from PSCS4 and 10.4.11 with your driver and printer.
Is your R2400 set as the default printer. You may have to use this to get it to set. <http://127.0.0.1:631/printers>. Setting default printer does not always work from the driver set screen.
You are mistaken. Any time you assign a profile to an existing image file, you’re messing with the tonality of the image, just like I said in my previous post. What you start with is immaterial.
Interestingly, I set the 2400 connected to my G4 as default in the Print and Fax prefs, but the link <http://127.0.0.1:631/printers> shows another printer as the default, but if I try to change that I get the following message: "Forbidden. You don’t have permission to access the resource on this server."
Who are these ESP people and how do they know what printers we have when no printers are switched on? And what else can they access on our computers?
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Ann, I agree. It’s quite scary, and it’s also huge distraction. All I wanted to do was upgrade my photo editing software and make some prints. Now I’m having to contemplate larger issues. I might just have to crawl back underneath my comfy CS2 rock and pretend CS4 never happened. I’ve been quite good at pretending CS3 never happened, except for Black and White adjustment layers.
What are you guys talking about. <http://127.0.0.1:631/> is simply the web interface for the CUPS printing system.
These web pages allow you to monitor your printers and jobs as well as perform system administration tasks. Click on any of the tabs above or on the buttons below to perform a task.
If you are asked for a username and password, enter your login username and password or the "root" username and password.
If you are asked for a username and password, enter your login username and password or the "root" username and password.
Entering my Root user name and Password on an Internet web site is NOT something that I would be comfortable doing!
The <http://127.0.0.1:631/> Link definitely appeared to be connected to a commercial sit on the Internet complete with Ads. for third party ESW software and a tabbed Link to <http://www.cups.org/> and their Forums.
Just to clarify DYP’s explanation… You are looking at your own printing system…. 127.0.0.1 is only looking at your own computer, you are not exposing yourself unless they have some kind of fake popup that is logging your IP and those details. I must state here that I am no expert, but that process you are looking at is nothing sinister!
You can unplug your network cable and put in that 127.0.0.1:631 and see your own printers via your own computer.
It is a bit ridiculous to get off on this whole debate as to the use of the CUPS web interface. Some people have to use it to set the default printer because in some cases it can not be done with the normal OSX Printers Set-up.
If you can set it in the normal OSX Printers Set-up, good for you, but I have two machines running 10.5.5 here it it can not be done with the normal OSX Printers Set-up.
Yes, it is getting a bit silly. Chill, people! ’tis the season, and all that…
DYP, I cannot successfully set my default printer through Print and Fax on my setup. It just reverts each time to the local printer. I can log on to CUPS as administrator on the G5, but only have privileges to administer the printer that is connected directly to my G5. I can send test print, etc. to others, but can’t change the default printer. If I try to do anything like that, I get the same "Forbidden" message. If I try to log on to CUPS on the G4, my password is not accepted. I thought that might have something to do with already being logged on on the G5, but I don’t see an option to log off. I have the same username on both computers, but different passwords. Is the username the problem?
I don’t think the default printer on the G4 is the problem. On the G5 in some instances it seems that the wrong profile get submitted by the OS/Printer driver combo if another printer is set as the default.
I think this was talked about earlier in this thread.
Let me clarify something. I no longer use Epson printers and in cases involving Epson printer I am passing along what I have read and heard. In working through these problems and workarounds it is from my experience with Canon printers, some of which applies to Epson printer as well. I was able to have good contact with Canon technical support and passed along all my finding as they related to the iPF printers. I am happy to say these issues (color management) have been corrected and no more double profiling has been going on, and with the Fast Graphic Process setting in the driver, Apple cannot apply any profiles in the print flow. I believe that Epson will need to step up to the ball and do the same thing if the want to support a professional Color Managed print flow to their printers, given the current policy of Apple and Adobe. They may have already done this with their latest printers (at least what I have been told) so the need is to convince them to do this for there older printers.
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