Spot Channels Workflow

DM
Posted By
Donald_Mitchell
Apr 4, 2008
Views
461
Replies
17
Status
Closed
I do a lot of packaging work using spot channels. I have to keep everything as editable as possible all the time.

I’ve been trying to figure out a workflow whereby I can simulate spot channels before creating them.

For example for each spot colour I’d like to have a group of different greyscale layers that I could apply masks/vector masks and adjustment layers to, and the group would display as if it were a sopt colour.

Once I’d finalised the position and tonal values of elements, I would duplicate each group, merge it and copy the contents to the appropriate spot channel. I’d then save a flattened copy for export to Illustrator.

My problem is getting the pretend ‘spot colour’ groups to display and interact so they look the same as they will when I create the final spot channels. I’ve tried mucking about with solid colour clipping layers above the greyscale layers, but I just can’t get it to work.

Can anyone think of a way of approaching this? I may not have explained it very well!

My dream would be for Photoshop to have the same power in the channels pallete as in the layers pallete, except everything would be greyscale if you know what I mean.
Related Tags
channel spot workflow

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AR
alan_ruta
Apr 4, 2008
One used to be able to do this. In color settings, custom you could change the value of cmyk colors. You would select a Pantone color in swatches, get the Lab values and plug them into the afore mentioned palette. Then with the pref set to show channels in color one could make the cyan channel look like Rubine Red, the magenta look like Orange 21 and so forth.

You would then work in the cmyk channels and paste them into spot channels when done. I just tested this and it seemed to work on new file. I had to paste and existing file into a new doc to see the color channels.

alan
JM
J_Maloney
Apr 4, 2008
Donald:

I tried to used layer groups but the multiply RGB equivalents to spots ain’t great. In the linked pic below, Groups 1 and 2 are set to multiply and Groups 3 and 4 are set to screen. Layers 1 and 2 are your spots in RGB, and "blue," "orange" and layers 3 and 4 are all at normal, and you should be able to pile on as many layers to build your "spots" as you need. When you’re all done, groups 3 and 4 are your spot channels.

But compared to a duotone, the color simulation for ink mixing isn’t great (unacceptable). I’m with Alan, I used to do this CMYK custom color trick, but I also can’t remember how to go about it.

< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1OkRojvUtCn8J4flrc 30UoeJfvxJU1>

J
DM
Donald_Mitchell
Apr 4, 2008
Thanks folks

I’ll experiment with your technique JM.

So are you saying the custom CMYK trick works in CS3 Alan?

In the particular job I’m working on, the "spot colours" are actually Magenta Yellow and Black – there’s just no Cyan plate. But I want to be able to as JM says "mix inks" and retain editability.
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Apr 4, 2008
Solid color fill layers is your friend.
DM
Donald_Mitchell
Apr 5, 2008
Tried that mike – doesn’t work for me. Would you like to explain your method?
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Apr 5, 2008
Have you tried pasting the grayscale image into the solid color fill layer mask and then throw that into a Group – then apply a curve to it to adjust tone? You can then set the color fill to mutiple if you want to overprint or load the transparency of said color fill layer mask and apply it to the other spot groupings as a knock out. Also – play with "clip masking" the curve adjustment layer to see which preview works best for you. Be careful about translucency in the pasted color fill mask as it will shift the colors as you multiply the spot layer groupings.

Once done you need to paste the flattened Grouping image into a Spot Channel. You may also want to throw a white color fill in at the bottom of the spot grouping before flattening to the Spot Layer to suppress transparency.

The other workflow is to work in a Grayscale file with spot channels or even duotone mode with spot channels.

There is no real perfect solution, but there are working methodologies that may assist you in trying to predict spot colors.

Hope this works for you.
DM
Donald_Mitchell
Apr 5, 2008
Sounds interesting Mike. The problem of course is that pasting the grayscale image into the layer mask of the solid colour fill layer doesn’t give me that much flexibility. It’s not just tonal value I’m looking to keep editable, it’s position, scale etc. I might have five different layers that I want to retain full control over that will eventually go into making up one spot channel. I want to be able to group those five layers together and display them as if they were a spot channel.

I’d love Photoshop’s engineers to concentrate less on application bloat – 3D, video, perspective etc and just introduce power to the channels palette – groups, clipping layers and masks, pixel info that can go beyond the edges of the channel, curves and levels adjustment layers for channels etc. I spend a LOT of time making masks and spot channels and I have to constantly invent workarounds. It reminds me of working in Photoshop 2.5 before layers were introduced… ( I’ve been at this a LONG time!)
JM
J_Maloney
Apr 5, 2008
Mike and Donald:

Take a look at this refined layout: < http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1M2goWIEOhySzJ484d TTEB1MKprdIb0>

Set 1 and set 2 are screen and set 3 and 4 are multiply. There is a solid color layer with white at the bottom of sets 1 and 2 stack, so that when you tansform set 1 or 2 (or sets 1 AND 2), the white knowckout doesn’t drop out (essential for the screening to work).

Mike, the advantage I see to something like this if Donald will have an active layer stack that works much the same way as any "normal" colorspace.

Any objects that have color information in multiple channels should probably be linked to move/transform them together. I haven’t played with all the possibilities (and made some "major" changes to this file, so…), but in general, I think you have a lot of the features of "layers" in a "spot" file.

Donald, if you drop a curve adjustment layer on top of everything you should be able to more accurately simulate your spot inks (which in YMK won’t be problem!!).

What I don’t understand Mike is why a solid fill color layer that is set to a spot can’t be at least set to act like a spot density-wise.

This is where someone chimes in and says…

Maybe I didn’t understand some of your references, Mike, but this workflow gives you editability that layer masks don’t (stackable layers etc).

J
DM
Donald_Mitchell
Apr 6, 2008
Thanks J, I can’t wait to have a good look at this method, but it’s Sunday – family duty calls!
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Apr 6, 2008
Good one J. Yea, working with editable spot colors is a ball of snot most of the time.

What I don’t understand Mike is why a solid fill color layer that is set to a spot can’t be at least set to act like a spot density-wise.

Spot color are either opaque or translucent depending upon the type of ink you stick in the press. The Solidity setting would have to be incorporated into layer color fills. I have requested in the past to Adobe that we need to have spot layer features within Photoshop, but I guess its not a priority for the company.
JM
J_Maloney
Apr 7, 2008
Any luck Donald?

I’m anxious to hear if this is anything but a PITA. I do a lot of two-color work and it would be nice to allow some of my designers to see "live" previews and also have transparency "support" in multichannel mode (as opposed to duotone, which works fine from PSD).

J
DM
Donald_Mitchell
Apr 8, 2008
Not really working for me J, the "spot colour groups" are not displaying the same as when I use a document with spot channels. I’m still experimenting, so I’ll let you know if I get anywhere. If you like I can send you a couple of files to see if you can make it work.
P
PeterK.
Apr 8, 2008
I have requested in the past to Adobe that we need to have spot layer features within Photoshop, but I guess its not a priority for the company.

I guess they’re not as interested in satisfying their shareholders as they claim, because I know of thousands of design agencies, prepress houses, printers, etc. that would pay for a "spot colour" version of Photoshop. 3d was interesting and showy, but completely broken and not functional for most work, and not used by most Photoshop users. (the silence is deafening whenever somebody posts a CS3 extended 3d-related question in these forums) Spot colour handling is being used extensively every day and would be appreciated by most users.
DM
Donald_Mitchell
Apr 8, 2008
Couldn’t agree more – now that you can use psd files direct in Illustrator for seps rather than all the hassle associated with DCS files, it couldn’t be a better time to pay some attention to the fundamental flaws in Photoshop rather than embellishing it with candy coloured ‘features’.
JM
J_Maloney
Apr 8, 2008
Sure Donald. Email me at "photoshop.forums_add that special symbol_gmail.com"

J
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Apr 8, 2008
It pretty much comes down to market share Peter.

I have the solutions for Spot Layers, but they are not interested.
AR
alan_ruta
Apr 8, 2008
There is also the masking issue. That is one of the biggest problems / extra work/time I find working with spot colors. In a 4c layered file if I place a silo head of someone on top of a background it is more or less job well done (IMHO).

With spot colors I then have to invert the mask for the under color layer and sometimes pull back (min/max filter) if needed. It would be nice if that could be build in.

alan

MacBook Pro 16” Mockups 🔥

– in 4 materials (clay versions included)

– 12 scenes

– 48 MacBook Pro 16″ mockups

– 6000 x 4500 px

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