How to lock a layer mask to a smart object?

MM
Posted By
Mike_Morrell
Oct 19, 2006
Views
2565
Replies
12
Status
Closed
For normal layers, when you create a layer mask a Little lock appears between the mask and the layer swatch in the layers palette. You can turn the lock on and off with a simple mouse click on the lock. But with a smart object, there is no lock and I cannot figure out how to click to get it locked. I want to be able to position my layer and have the mask follow. How do you do this in CS2?

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RH
Rogier_Hillebrandt
Oct 19, 2006
Hi Mike,

I think you are referring to the link icon? (when masking?)

As far as i know, it is not possible to do the masking directly on to a smart object(you are able to add a layer mask but it is not directly editable by the brush).

You need to double click the smart icon layer(so that it opens the original image)and then add a layer mask.
Save changes and close the image.

Please let me know if i mis understood you or if something is not clear.

Regards,

Rogier.
MM
Mike_Morrell
Oct 19, 2006
Rogier, thank you for your reply. You are able to add a layer mask to a smart object layer. And, you are able to paint this mask to your heart’s content. You can brush on and off just like any mask on any layer.

However, I cannot find a way to link the mask’s position and size so that if the layer’s position or size (scale) is changed that the mask moves along with it. With normal layers, the link (sorry not lock) icon facilitates this. Turn the link on and the mask moves with the layer. Turn it off and the layer moves "under" the mask and the mask stays put. But for smart object layers, I cannot get the link to show up.

I even tried putting my smart layer into a group and when I moved the group, the mask still stayed in the same position. Even when I scaled the group, the mask remained the same size. There were two ways that I ended up with as workarounds. Neither method was satisfactory to me. One was to rasterize the layer, thus eliminating the smart object altogether. Obviously, this defeats the purpose of using a smart layer in the first place. The other way was to first move the layer and then move the mask to the appropriate position. this worked OK. However, I also needed to resize my layer and resizing the mask to match was no easy task. At this point, I bagged the smart layer and rasterized.

The purpose here is to use photoshop as a design tool utilizing as much non-destructive editing as possible so that you client can come along later and make changes without having to start from scratch. Smart objects and "placed objects" are a step in the right direction for non-destructive editing, but if you can’t fully utilize the power of layer masks with these objects, then these tools become quite limiting in their usefulness. I keep hearing my MAC buddies tell me that Aperture is what I need to use for non-destructive editing and design. But alas, I am a PC user and I have a lot invested in the Adobe suite of products. Therefore, I am hoping that I am simply missing something about masks with smart layers and someone can help me find the answer.

If you are unfamiliar with smart layers, open up a photo and convert the layer to a smart object. Then add a layer mask, paint away, etc. Then see if you can link the mask and layer and or move the layer and the mask simultaneously. If you do/can, please let me know how.
R
RobertHJones
Oct 19, 2006
Mike,

I don’t know why you can’t directly link the smart object to the layer mask, but I’ve gotten around it by making a new smart object using "Group into new smart object" on the layer after I’ve finished making the mask. You can then move it around and rescale as desired.

If you need to go back and edit the mask later, you can use "Edit contents". A bit awkward, but it works.
MM
Mike_Morrell
Oct 19, 2006
Robert, I do not know how you are able to create a smart object on a layer with a mask. For me, it is dimmed out on both the right click method of "group into.." and "layer<smart objects<group ionto…" Both of these are dimmed out when a layer mask is present. Can you try duplicating this again to double check that you can really do it or not? If you can, then there is something in my preferences that would prevent me from being able to create a smart layer after creating a mask.
C
chrisjbirchall
Oct 19, 2006
"Group into new smart object" is in the third Right-click menu (accessed by right clicking over the "name" portion of the layer, not the thumnail or mask)
MM
Mike_Morrell
Oct 19, 2006
Chris, so what you are saying is that if you have a layer and add a mask to it that you can create a smart object by positioning your mouse above the layer name and right clicking on it and going to "Group into…"?

Because this does NOT work for me. I really appreciate all of the help here but either I have multiple mysterious copies of CS2 or you guys are not actually trying this for yourselves.

Go into CS2, create a new file with a transparent background, create a layer mask on layer 1, then please Chris do exactly what you just told us to do and see if you can create a smart object on this layer. I do not care where you point your mouse, it cannot be done on either of two machines that I have tested it on. Can it really be done on yours?

Please, either provide some tested information or provide me with the details that might actually help. Simply telling me how to create a smart layer when it is obvious from reading the above posts that I already know how to this is not helpful and wastes everyone’s time reading this thread.
R
RobertHJones
Oct 19, 2006
Mike,

I’ve done this many times with no problem. I usually have more than one layer present when I do it, so I tried your single layer scenario to see if it made a difference. It did, I got the menu item grayed out. However, I found that all you need to do to make it work is to add another layer. The menu item is now available. You don’t even need to keep the layer, the menu item stays available even if you immediately delete it. Sounds like a bug, some flag probably isn’t getting initialized.

Anyway, give that a try and see if it works for you.
C
chrisjbirchall
Oct 19, 2006
Mike, we’re talking cross purposes here.

In your original post you said:

But with a smart object, there is no lock and I cannot figure out how to click to get it locked. I want to be able to position my layer and have the mask follow.

Your example in post #6 simply asked for a mask to be applied to a normal layer. In this instance "Group into new Smart Object" will be greyed out.

So, to answer your original question about being able to scale and move a smart object and its mask in unison, try this:

* Make a new Document with a white BG.
* "Place" an image thereby creating a Smart Object on a new layer. * Draw an oval with the marquee tool and feather it.
* Hit the Layer mask icon to create a vignette mask based on the selection * Now, with the thumbnail selected, right-click the blue area in the right hand side of the layers palette.
* Select "Group into new Smart Object" from the context menu.

Whilst still retaining the advantages of being a Smart Object, the layer can be scaled and resized together with the mask (in this example, a vignette).

Hope this helps.

Chris.
C
chrisjbirchall
Oct 19, 2006
all you need to do to make it work is to add another layer. The menu item is now available. You don’t even need to keep the layer, the menu item stays available even if you immediately delete it. sounds like a bug,

No it’s not a bug Robert.

What’s happening is, when you add the layer mask, it is the mask itself that is selected. You need to select the actual thumbnail to carry out the grouping operation.
MM
Mike_Morrell
Oct 19, 2006
Robert, thanks for testing this for me. I guess that this is NOT a bug as Chris suggest. I tried right clicking on the layer name as and you cannot create a new group because the mask is selected. So yes, it does make sense that you have to select the left thumbnail part of the layer first in order do the group into smart object.

Chris, gotcha now, without clicking onto the thumbnail, I did not understand. You are also saying that after you have created your mask on one smart object (or placed image), you can convert this into a smart object. Even though you can no longer see the mask, you can edit the original smart object’s mask using the "edit contents" option of the layer. This is exactly what Robert told me before but since I could not get it to work because the mask was selected.

So this method works fine for me I think. While it may be a bit of a pain to edit contents, it is not much of an inconvenience compared to having to start over. So thank you both for your help. Maybe CS3 will make it a bit easier, but this method is quite workable and helps me do non-destructive editing.

Also note that as I said in my second post, I used the work "lock" erroneously. I should have used the word "link".

Thanks again for the help. This is really a huge feature for anyone who does complex layered designed using high resolution photos. It means that much of what can be edited can be done in a non-destructive manner so that size can be changed without starting over or loosing resolution.
R
RobertHJones
Oct 19, 2006
What’s happening is, when you add the layer mask, it is the mask itself that is selected. You need to select the actual thumbnail to carry out the grouping operation.

You are correct, of course. I’m very familiar with how mask/image thumbnail selection works and I usually don’t get tripped up like that. Chalk it up to momentary inattention or possibly a "senior" moment. <g>
C
chrisjbirchall
Oct 19, 2006
a "senior" moment. <g>

Hey Robert, I know all about them!

Never did like the "senior" tag though. I prefer the term "recycled teenager" 😉

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