Multiple crops in same PSD file?

I hope someone can give me advice on a more space-efficient way of performing multiple crops on the same PSD file.

At this moment, my PSD files sometimes get pretty big, with multiple layers including masks. I like to hold on to them that way so that I can make further changes down the road.

Sometimes, I have to come up with many different croppings of the same PSD file.

The way it is now, I make copies of the PSD file, crop and then rename them. As a result of this, I am rapidly running out of disk space.

What I am looking for is a way to keep different croppings on different layers of the same PSD file. What's stopping me from simply using a rectangular marquee tool is that almost all of my crops are done using the Crop tool presets (4x6, 5x7, etc.) and that finely adjusting marquee proportions is a torture.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

"Francoys" wrote in message

I hope someone can give me advice on a more space-efficient way of performing multiple crops on the same PSD file.

At this moment, my PSD files sometimes get pretty big, with multiple layers including masks. I like to hold on to them that way so that I can make further changes down the road.

Sometimes, I have to come up with many different croppings of the same PSD file.

The way it is now, I make copies of the PSD file, crop and then rename them. As a result of this, I am rapidly running out of disk space.
What I am looking for is a way to keep different croppings on different layers of the same PSD file. What's stopping me from simply using a rectangular marquee tool is that almost all of my crops are done using the Crop tool presets (4x6, 5x7, etc.) and that finely adjusting marquee proportions is a torture.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

When you crop an image, all the layers in the image are cropped at the same time. Not much sense in having a 10 *8 background with 8*6 layers above it. Are you saying that the crop tool presets do not do the job "sizewise"? Have you tried creating your own presets?
Why do the cropped images have to be PSD's? You already have the original, uncropped PSD, so why not save them in another format, or transfer them to CD\DvD?

MH

Thanks for the feedback, and the questions. My field is software and not graphics, so please bear with me if some things aren't obvious to me. Here goes:

The reason I want to keep the PSD of the cropped picture is that I'm often asked for reprints, some time down the road. That way, I don't have to re-crop the picture, and the exact same cropping is obtained. Why the PSD? In case I want to later on make some adjustments to my layers (levels, color balance, hue/sat, etc.) while still keeping the same crop.

Since the time I originally posted the question, I've done a lot of reading and tinkerking, and I've come up with ***what I think*** is a compromise, which I've tried out a few times. I'll describe it here, and I'd appreciate it if you would tell me if there are things I haven't thought of, or if I'm creating unnecessary work for myself.

1) Start with a SAVED multiple layer PSD, which includes corrections, etc.

2) On the Background Layer, using Rectangular Marquee and selecting a Fixed Aspect Ratio (e.g.: 4x6, 5x7) select a desired cropping.

3) Using command Layer Via Copy generate a new layer showing only the selection.

4) Save the PSD file, which now has this new layer that is based on the selection made with the Rectangular Marquee.

5) Make the Background Layer invisible.

6) Trim the Image, based on Transparent Pixels. (i.e.: what WASN'T selected with the Rectangular Marquee) DO NOT save yet.

7) Using Image Size, resize and resample the Image. e.g.: 4x6 inches, at 320 pixels/inch for the photo processor I use. DO NOT save yet.

8) If necessary, change Image Mode down to 8-bits/channel prior to saving as a JPG.

9) Save the cropped image AS A JPG, with desired parameters.

10) Close, WITHOUT SAVING, the PSD file.

At this moment, the PSD file holds ALL of the original info, plus a layer having to do with the cropping. I might have some other layers for other crops of the same image, each of these layers created using steps 2-3 above.

When I want to revisit a specific crop of an image, I simply have to make the desired image adjustments, (color balance, etc.) and save the PSD. I then follow steps 5-10 above, to obtain a new JPG of the same crop but with the image adjusted.

As a result, the PSD does grow, but less disk real-estate is muched up than if I had a seperate PSD for each crop of an image. The down side is the extra work involved, but that could be addressed via Javascript.

Any feedback is appreciated.

/f

Mike Hyndman wrote:

"Francoys" wrote in message

I hope someone can give me advice on a more space-efficient way of performing multiple crops on the same PSD file.

At this moment, my PSD files sometimes get pretty big, with multiple layers including masks. I like to hold on to them that way so that I can make further changes down the road.

Sometimes, I have to come up with many different croppings of the same PSD file.

The way it is now, I make copies of the PSD file, crop and then rename them. As a result of this, I am rapidly running out of disk space.
What I am looking for is a way to keep different croppings on different layers of the same PSD file. What's stopping me from simply using a rectangular marquee tool is that almost all of my crops are done using the Crop tool presets (4x6, 5x7, etc.) and that finely adjusting marquee proportions is a torture.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

When you crop an image, all the layers in the image are cropped at the same time. Not much sense in having a 10 *8 background with 8*6 layers above it. Are you saying that the crop tool presets do not do the job "sizewise"? Have you tried creating your own presets?
Why do the cropped images have to be PSD's? You already have the original, uncropped PSD, so why not save them in another format, or transfer them to CD\DvD?

MH

Hi Francoys

Try this-- let's assume you have an image and you want to save several 3x4 in crops.
(1) Select the marque tool ["M"], and set it for "Fixed Size" or "Fixed aspect ratio", and set the dimensions to "3 in" by "4 in". Using the Fixed Size will give you an exact 3x4 in crop in relation to the current size of your image; Fixed aspect ratio will give you a crop where the ratio of the sides is 3:4 regardless of the actual size in inches. You may have to resample the resulting crop, and change its dimensions, to actually get a 3x4 inch crop.

(2) Click in your image; a selection rectangle appears, and it is either 3x4 inches, or 3x4 aspect ratio, depending on what you selected in (1). Note that with Fixed aspect ratio you can drag the marque to get a variably-sized selection while maintaining the 3x4 ratio.

(3) Once you are satisfied with your cropping selection, show the "Paths" palatte ["Window --> Paths"] and open the Paths Options by clicking the little arrowhead on the upper right of the palette. Select "Make work path" and choose minimum tolerance (0.5); your selection is converted to a path. Double click the "Work path" name (not the path icon), and give it an appropriate name.

(3) Save your file. Your work path-- which represents your cropping rectangle-- is saved with your file.

To use the path to crop:

(4) Open the Paths palatte and select the Path layer containing the path you want.

(5) On the Tools Palatte, select the Direct Selection Tool (looks like a solid arrow with a white fill) and then (on the image and with the proper Path layer still selected) select the desired path by simply dragging the tool over the path much as you use the marque tool to make a selection in the first place (you can also use the Selection Tool (looks like a solid arrow with a black fill) to make your selection). When you've properly selected the path, you should see the 4 anchor points at the corners.

(6) Back to the Paths palatte, Path Options, but this time select "Make Selection", and choose "0" for tolerance with no anti-aliasing. Your original selection returns, which you can then use to crop your image.

A few notes:
On my machine, a single Path layer with a single path adds about 200 bytes to the file size; all that has got to be saved is a liitle housekeeping overhead and then the four corner points; each additional rectangular path adds another 150 bytes or so. Compare that to saving an alpha channel (a mask), which is about 1/3 the size of a new RGB layer, so it may be several megabytes depending on your image.

There's no reason to limit yourself to rectangluar crops-- paths can easily accomodate elliptical, octagonal, or irregular paths as well. Also, youcan store several paths on one path layer, and then just select the one that you want to use; it's easier if such paths are non-overlapping.

Also, once your images and cropping paths are "finalized" I'd recommend saving the file as "read only" to minimize the riskof accidentally changing it later on.

Hope that helps!

----garywed

"Francoys" wrote in message

Thanks for the feedback, and the questions. My field is software and not graphics, so please bear with me if some things aren't obvious to me. Here goes:

The reason I want to keep the PSD of the cropped picture is that I'm often asked for reprints, some time down the road. That way, I don't have to re-crop the picture, and the exact same cropping is obtained. Why the PSD? In case I want to later on make some adjustments to my layers (levels, color balance, hue/sat, etc.) while still keeping the same crop.

Since the time I originally posted the question, I've done a lot of reading and tinkerking, and I've come up with ***what I think*** is a compromise, which I've tried out a few times. I'll describe it here, and I'd appreciate it if you would tell me if there are things I haven't thought of, or if I'm creating unnecessary work for myself.
1) Start with a SAVED multiple layer PSD, which includes corrections, etc.

2) On the Background Layer, using Rectangular Marquee and selecting a Fixed Aspect Ratio (e.g.: 4x6, 5x7) select a desired cropping.
3) Using command Layer Via Copy generate a new layer showing only the selection.

4) Save the PSD file, which now has this new layer that is based on the selection made with the Rectangular Marquee.

5) Make the Background Layer invisible.

6) Trim the Image, based on Transparent Pixels. (i.e.: what WASN'T selected with the Rectangular Marquee) DO NOT save yet.

7) Using Image Size, resize and resample the Image. e.g.: 4x6 inches, at 320 pixels/inch for the photo processor I use. DO NOT save yet.
8) If necessary, change Image Mode down to 8-bits/channel prior to saving as a JPG.

9) Save the cropped image AS A JPG, with desired parameters.
10) Close, WITHOUT SAVING, the PSD file.

At this moment, the PSD file holds ALL of the original info, plus a layer having to do with the cropping. I might have some other layers for other crops of the same image, each of these layers created using steps 2-3 above.

When I want to revisit a specific crop of an image, I simply have to make the desired image adjustments, (color balance, etc.) and save the PSD. I then follow steps 5-10 above, to obtain a new JPG of the same crop but with the image adjusted.

As a result, the PSD does grow, but less disk real-estate is muched up than if I had a seperate PSD for each crop of an image. The down side is the extra work involved, but that could be addressed via Javascript.
Any feedback is appreciated.

I see what you mean now (I think) You are not actually making a physical crop with the crop tool, you are making a selection on a separate layer with the marquee tool to see what the actaully crop would look like, yes? It is this adding the "selection" layer that is increasing the size of your PSD. If as you say space is an issue, then I would suggest giving Gary's suggestion a try and see how the resulting file sizes compare.

Regards

Mike H

Yes, you're right, the extra layers of selections DO add size to files.

What I was doing was creating these "selection layers" so that if and when I wanted to do a certain crop, I'd simply access that layer while making all other non-adjustment layers invisible. It's actually quite a headache.

I'll now reply to Gary, who, like you correctly said, came up with a useful suggestion.

Thanks!

Mike Hyndman wrote:

"Francoys" wrote in message

<MY DELETED STUFF>

I see what you mean now (I think) You are not actually making a physical crop with the crop tool, you are making a selection on a separate layer with the marquee tool to see what the actaully crop would look like, yes? It is this adding the "selection" layer that is increasing the size of your PSD. If as you say space is an issue, then I would suggest giving Gary's suggestion a try and see how the resulting file sizes compare.
Regards

Mike H

Gary, I've tried your suggestion. It accomplishes what I wanted to do, but in a much more efficient and elegant manner than what I was doing!

Paths are something which I'd never previously tried, so I'll do some reading up on them.

Again, many thanks to all!

/f

Gary Wedemayer wrote:

Hi Francoys

Try this-- let's assume you have an image and you want to save several 3x4 in crops.
(1) Select the marque tool ["M"], and set it for "Fixed Size" or "Fixed aspect ratio", and set the dimensions to "3 in" by "4 in". Using the Fixed Size will give you an exact 3x4 in crop in relation to the current size of your image; Fixed aspect ratio will give you a crop where the ratio of the sides is 3:4 regardless of the actual size in inches. You may have to resample the resulting crop, and change its dimensions, to actually get a 3x4 inch crop.

(2) Click in your image; a selection rectangle appears, and it is either 3x4 inches, or 3x4 aspect ratio, depending on what you selected in (1). Note that with Fixed aspect ratio you can drag the marque to get a variably-sized selection while maintaining the 3x4 ratio.
(3) Once you are satisfied with your cropping selection, show the "Paths" palatte ["Window --> Paths"] and open the Paths Options by clicking the little arrowhead on the upper right of the palette. Select "Make work path" and choose minimum tolerance (0.5); your selection is converted to a path. Double click the "Work path" name (not the path icon), and give it an appropriate name.

(3) Save your file. Your work path-- which represents your cropping rectangle-- is saved with your file.

To use the path to crop:

(4) Open the Paths palatte and select the Path layer containing the path you want.

(5) On the Tools Palatte, select the Direct Selection Tool (looks like a solid arrow with a white fill) and then (on the image and with the proper Path layer still selected) select the desired path by simply dragging the tool over the path much as you use the marque tool to make a selection in the first place (you can also use the Selection Tool (looks like a solid arrow with a black fill) to make your selection). When you've properly selected the path, you should see the 4 anchor points at the corners.

(6) Back to the Paths palatte, Path Options, but this time select "Make Selection", and choose "0" for tolerance with no anti-aliasing. Your original selection returns, which you can then use to crop your image.

A few notes:
On my machine, a single Path layer with a single path adds about 200 bytes to the file size; all that has got to be saved is a liitle housekeeping overhead and then the four corner points; each additional rectangular path adds another 150 bytes or so. Compare that to saving an alpha channel (a mask), which is about 1/3 the size of a new RGB layer, so it may be several megabytes depending on your image.
There's no reason to limit yourself to rectangluar crops-- paths can easily accomodate elliptical, octagonal, or irregular paths as well. Also, youcan store several paths on one path layer, and then just select the one that you want to use; it's easier if such paths are non-overlapping.

Also, once your images and cropping paths are "finalized" I'd recommend saving the file as "read only" to minimize the riskof accidentally changing it later on.

Hope that helps!

----garywed