LCD Monitor Adjustment

DM
Posted By
Dave_McElderry
Jan 22, 2004
Views
400
Replies
16
Status
Closed
Slightly off topic, but still definitely related to the whole subject of digital photo manipulation and printing. For any of you who were following the recent thread on LCD monitors, this is kind of a follow-up, plus a question.

I downloaded and tried the freebie wiziwyg monitor adjustment utility. I followed its steps right up to the point of saving a profile, and then I cancelled. It worked fine, but I can’t say that it had any particular advantage or disadvantage over the Adobe Gamma utility. It did differ in one significant way from the Adobe utility, however. The Adobe utility instructs you to put the contrast as high as it will go, and then you adjust the brightness. There is never anything further said re the contrast setting, so unless you make a point of turning it down, it remains at 100%. The wiziwyg utility steps you through a process whereby the contrast does get lowered from maximum.

With my LCD monitor I can’t say that the display is unpleasant at 100% contrast, although it’s probably overly "intense" (for lack of a better word), especially when comparing the pictures on the screen to the printed product. This may account for my previous comment that the printed photos are slightly darker than what I see on the screen. At this point I have backed my contrast off to 90%.

So, does anyone but me find it odd that Adobe would have you set the contrast to 100% and leave it there? Wouldn’t a 100% setting vary widely from one monitor to another? Setting it to 100% and leaving it there seems like you’re defeating the point of the calibration procedure.

I’m really interested in hearing from you folks. Thanks!

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BB
brent_bertram
Jan 22, 2004
Adobe Gamma is NOT designed for LCD screens . For what it’s worth, when I do a Monaco Gamma calibration, the contrast also gets set to full on and left there. The purpose is to get to the extreme performance range of your display , for white point/ black point purposes, and then balance the colors. I haven’t the background to explain the color science involved, but there are a number of links you can explore, if your really want to investigate . Adobe does know what it’s doing , however, with its Adobe Gamma Utility, the problem is that its only really useful for CRT’s, and then its only as good as the user’s eyes and judgement. That’s why serious graphics people ( read $$$ here ) have hardware solutions which give them accurate calibrations and profiles.

🙂

Brent
DM
Dave_McElderry
Jan 22, 2004
Maybe I’m getting in over my head (probably), or maybe the topic is just much too technical for discussion here, but is there a simple explanation of why the Adobe Gamma utility is not for LCD monitors? It seemed to work well enough that had I not been told this, I wouldn’t have known. The second question that seems to be needing to be asked (and I’m really not trying to be a pain here) is why do we need a contrast adjustment at all if it’s desireable that it be at 100%?
BB
brent_bertram
Jan 22, 2004
Dave,
You’re not being a pain at all, you’re just moving into deep waters <G> . Take a look at this , <http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html> , and see if it gives you a sense of what is involved. Adobe’s tech doc on calibration, <http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/1403e.htm> , also has some clues in it. The Adobe Gamma utility requires a "phospors" setting, but LCD’s don’t have phosphors . LCD displays are generally profiled at their "native" whitepoint" rather than at some setting that you might arrive at with the Adobe Gamma utility . The LCD displays don’t behave the same as CRT’s so some of the Adobe Gamma "requirements" simply don’t make sense. That being said, I have used the Adobe Gamma to balance my colors on my laptop, which improved the viewed images, but it certainly can’t be said to be an accurately profiled display.

Color monitors were invented long before "color management" was invented. It’s only since the subject of profiling accurately displays has become an issue, that things like turning up the contrast to 100% has become part of the solution.

For a really technical discussion, I invite you to join the Adobe Color Management forum . Some of the biggest guns hang out there, and watching their interplay can be fascinating ( if you can figure out what they’re talking about <G> .

🙂

Brent
DM
Dave_McElderry
Jan 23, 2004
Brent,

Thank you for taking the trouble to "set the stage", so to speak. I was reading the Adobe Gamma technical doc when your post came in, except I was reading the one for Windows. I suspect that they’re basically the same information. I will also check out the normankoren site. After that I may get back to you <G>. I could see that Cheshire Cat grin as you wrote about joining the Color Management forum. I feel as if I’m standing on the brink 😉

Right now it sounds like I need to figure out how to uninstall the profile that I created with Adobe Gamma and return to whatever came with my system. I don’t know if it had any color management built in, or if that just doesn’t exist.

Hmmmm…..I’ve got that old Vivitron CRT monitor, and my Radeon ATI supports two monitors…how can I rearrange this workspace…?
BB
brent_bertram
Jan 23, 2004
Dave,
Here’s a good example, Tim Lookingbill "Whitepoint: Native." 1/21/04 9:28am </cgi-bin/webx?13/2> from today’s color management forum. I understand what they’re talking about ( okay 80% ) , but I wouldn’t butt into this one, haven’t the background. I’m an electrician, network engineer and a techie. I could explain how to build a CRT much better than I could explain how color works.

If you can find the ICC profile supplied with your LCD display, I believe you simply load it into Adobe Gamma, rename it and save it. It then becomes the default system display profile. The only times this is a problem, is when the profile is corrupt or somehow doesn’t conform to whatever it is that Adobe Gamma expects in a profile. Then, we see a user with a problem.

🙂

Brent
DM
Dave_McElderry
Jan 23, 2004
Well Brent, after browsing some of the messages in that forum I think I’m wise to just stay here "at home" for a while <G>. Maybe the folks there are just as nice, but I would feel much less comfortable asking these kind of learning questions over there. You’re right about just watching the interplay. On slow days when I need something to do I just might do that.
BB
brent_bertram
Jan 23, 2004
The folks there are not "just as nice". <G> Mostly , they’d object to being called folks, I think ( at least on the forum ) . However, if they know you’re trying , they do give you some encouragement and some slack.

This place ( Elements ) is as nice a place as you’ll find, I think.

🙂

Brent
BH
Beth_Haney
Jan 23, 2004
Brent, where/how do you find the ICC profile for a monitor? I just looked on the Envision site (the brand I’ve got) and I couldn’t find any information. I also did a Google for it and came up dry. So what’s the secret? 🙂
DM
Dave_McElderry
Jan 23, 2004
Oops! My use of the word "folks" is a Mid-Western colloquialism (U.S.) and I hope I haven’t offended anyone here. It’s intended to be friendly, not disrespectful. I’ve said it before too, but I agree that this is as nice a place as you’ll find.
BB
brent_bertram
Jan 23, 2004
Beth,
I suppose you have to get one either on an install cd ( or floppy ), or from their website. Viewsonic has an install cd with their monitors , at least the CRT’s. I’ve never purchased a LCD from them , but it doesn’t make sense that that would be different.

Check the LCD driver at <http://www.envisionmonitor.com/default.asp> . The profile for the LCD is in the archive.

🙂

Brent
BH
Beth_Haney
Jan 23, 2004
OK, so I’m search challenged, too! I found the spec page, and I can see the driver downloads, except there is no driver for my Mac. All I need to do is plug it in and it works. A floppy did come with the monitor, but a) it was Win only, and b) I haven’t had a floppy drive bay in a computer in years!

You said "The profile for the LCD is in the archive." What archive? 🙁

Yesterday I pulled some guts out of my computer, replaced a piece, put the thing back together, turned it on, and it works. And I didn’t have a manual. So why do you suppose I can’t find the ICC profile even when you’ve given me a link?! The heck with Elements; I think I’ll get a job repairing computers.
BB
brent_bertram
Jan 23, 2004
It’s a small file, I’ll email it to you when I get home. There are a couple ICM files in the executable archive. Repairing computers is much easier than software, good choice ! <G>

Brent
JH
Jim_Hess
Jan 23, 2004
I checked the Envision website to see if they had an ICC profile available for download. All they had was a monitor driver. That is not the same thing, is it?
BH
Beth_Haney
Jan 23, 2004
Well… I did remember the XP machine still has a floppy, so I loaded the disk in it. I can find a little 1kb doc that’s trying to convince me it contains the ICC profile, except I can’t find a program that will open it. I even did the "let Windows search the internet for you" routine and still no joy. Jim, if you haven’t tried putting that floppy in your computer yet and looking, you might want to give it a try. Maybe you’ll have better luck than Ms Inept here is having. I did find a small doc that said "install this profile", except I didn’t want it installed on that computer. When I checked Properties of the doc intself there was something that said "Color Profile Description G2.2D78", but I didn’t think ICC profiles were configured like that. Aren’t we looking for a bunch of numbers that look more like xxx.xxxxx.xxx ?

So, Brent, please be sure to "translate" before sending me anything, ’cause this ain’t working out well on my end. And, Jim, if you can break the code before me, take a look and see if you find a profile for the EN9110 while you’re in there!!

Thank you! 🙂
BB
brent_bertram
Jan 23, 2004
There are a couple ICM files in the self extracting driver. Those are what you want , I believe. I’ll send them when I get home and access to real email. <G>

🙂

Brent
BH
Beth_Haney
Jan 23, 2004
Thank you, Brent. 🙂

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