Do EPS files save spot colors for output?

You have to use DCS 2.0 or Photoshop PDF.

<< The image is also behind text with a drop shadow, so the whole transparency issue makes it even more of an issue. What should I do? >>

Jump off a high building!

You can copy the spot channel into a separate grayscale image and save it as a TIFF. Place it in your Illustrator file exactly on top of the 4-color image. Colorize the image and change its blending mode to multiply.

David:

I don’t think you noticed that Eric plans to run a transparent drop-shadow over a SPOT color?!

Where is MO when you need him?

Placing DCS2.0 files into Illustrator is a recipe for disaster.

If you follow Dave’s sage advice, you will apply the grayscale image of the spot channel as an inverted opacity mask, though this will not work in all workflows

PS: Hi Dave! next summer= grand canyon= can’t wait

John,

Thanks for the info for colorizing grayscale images in Illustrator. I forgot that Illustrator makes this such a chore.

I don’t think that this answers the problem of putting transparency (dropped shadows) over a spot color in either Illustrator or InDesign.

I have always understood that that combination spells real trouble.

Sorry,

was at Walmart trying to figure out who is uglier. Employees or customers.

hmm..

This is probably an easy answer but I can’t find it anywhere. I am trying to import a photoshop CMYK + 1 spot image into illustrator 10. Do regular photoshop eps files save the spot color channel for importing into other programs or do you have to use DCS 2.0? When I import DCS files with a spot color into illustrator the preview is a bitmapped nightmare unlike the typical low res preview. However when I import a DCS without a spot color it looks okay. The image is also behind text with a drop shadow, so the whole transparency issue makes it even more of an issue. What should I do?

Photoshop file format with spots is not supported in page layout applications. Neither are Tiffs with spots. Only EPS and PDF have spot color support when placed into page layout applications.

DCS 2 is a form of EPS.

PDF is a form of EPS and Postscript combined. ( in simple terms)

Spot colors in file formats that do transfer to page layout apps – I’ve NEVER got to fly with transparency. Nick form the In Design team has confirmed this.

Illustrator 10 supports spot color files such as DCS 2, but your RIP has to support it. A Brisque does. Most others don’t.

You can’t place a Photoshop PDF with Spots into Illustrator yet.

Don’t trust previews especially things placed into Illustrator.

What should I do?

Stop making files you can’t print.

Why are Spot jobs so open ended?

a.) Things are still being developed.

b.) Not all jobs get printed as spots or destined for paper.

The thing that you have to remember is that this industry, ALL this computer stuff,– is still in development

We do live in interesting times.

It would be akin to watching the launch of a new era, um, kind of like watching the History Channel –ten years from now– when we can look back and say a lot has changed and wow!

I think I was there…

To answer the original question. (which basically has already been answered)

Illustrator 10 is limited in support of spot raster.

The simplest solution to the original question is to use proxy cmyk colors instead of spot.

If that is not a option, then exploring what type of file formats is supported by Ai10.

DCS images can be LINKED placed only and can NEVER be embedded. They also must be output from Illustrator as separations ONLY. They CANNOT be saved out from Illustrator and maintain the spot color information. They are very limiting.

DCS images are better placed in dtp applications such as Xpress or InDesign. InDesign CS being the best since it will compose the dcs image on the fly within the application.

There are 3rd party applications and rip features that will compose dcs images to work in a composite workflow.

If you have to use dcs in Illustrator, then do so. Prepress has been dealing with the limitation for quite a while should already have their workarounds in place to output the files. (though you may be charged extra without every knowing about it)

Illustrator 10 does NOT support transparency with LINKED objects so this is ruled out from the original question.

Duotones images can be LINKED place and must remain LINKED at all times. If embedded, they will convert to process. Duotones can be saved out to Illustrator eps with PRESERVE links or Include links (this does not embed them, it just contains the file within the Illustrator file) and be placed into dtp applications for output.

Since transparency in Illustrator 10 does not work with linked objects and that the question mentioned cmyk+spot, this is ruled out.

If the spot color is a solid color, (no tints) placing the cmyk portion as one file and the spot color as a BITMAP, align, and colorize the bitmap to the desired spot color is a option.

If the spot color is tints, then save the spot color as grayscale, apply the opacity mask workaround and align with the process portion.

There are two actions on the Adobe Studio Exchange that help with the creation of the Opacity mask. Illustrator>Actions>Images (I forget the exact name) These site is down currently so I cannot get the address.

These images must be embedded due to other transparent elements involved since Illustrator 10 requires embedded objects to mix with transparency

Also note: Illustrator does not have the ability to make a spot dropshadow. The opacity mask will need to be used to colorize it to a spot swatch if the shadow contained any blur. If no blur, expand the shadow and colorize to the spot swatch.

This thread is a Keeper.

The main points from it should be incorporated into the next Illustrator and InDesign manuals.

I don’t think that this answers the problem of putting transparency (dropped shadows) over a spot color in either Illustrator or InDesign.

I have always understood that that combination spells real trouble.

The secret to transparency in general is when, how it is flattened and what takes place after to complete its way through the rip.

The secret to spot+transparency is knowing what forms of transparency works with spot and which forms do not. Along with flattening, rips must NOT be set to ignore overprints. (depending on where the file gets flattened)

With ever evolving workflows, applications, features and you name it prepress workflows are limited to its weakest link in their rip chain. If it does not work, we are quick to say that the designers workflow is poor and should not be used. If it does work for us and not for other prepress depts, then we are also quick to say other departments are idiots. (9 out of 10 prepress people are idiots. myself included)

The truth of what works and what does not has a direct relationship on that prepress department’s rips and workflows and to what extent they are willing to employ workarounds to get the files through their systems. Other printers with newer or different rips or different workflows can rip these files with no issues.

It is a dirty little prepress secret, but any file can be put through the ultimate time consuming workaround that will rip by manually trapping, impose, produce separations to the black channel and output each black channel as its own page and manually change the line screen angle as needed.

It is just no prepress person in their right mind would want to do such a thing.

It is the same reason why we will tell you that outline text imaged on a high resolution will not have the loss of hinting be noticeable. (except for the anal freaks, me)

Prepress needs require the flow of many, many jobs through there systems and not just one persons.

Sorry, I got off on a tangent. Happy mediums need to be made between prepress workflows,designers practices and application and rip advances.

You can’t place a Photoshop PDF with Spots into Illustrator yet.

In Illustrator 10 and below, no it is not possible. But in CS, yes you can.

See this thread regarding placed spot raster in Illustrator CS. <http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?128@@.2ccf18e7>

Besides the major advancement with the CS applications in being able to use Photoshops formats that can contain spot raster data, I am still greatly annoyed until the Photoshop team will make the eps format (not the ugly dcs workaround format) to be saved with spot colors intact. (Also, they need the Photoshop PDF to retain spot colors AND transparency)

Some of the workarounds that I use with respect to placed spot files in Ai or Indy are tiffs set to overprint in a duplicated picture box placed on top of the 4 color box.

There are some other solutions such as a Dalim Litho high end editing station that can deal with Spot DCS 2 and transparency, but I guess that would be cheating.

;o)

When I was in pre press, I sometimes used to rasterize the drop shadows to Bitmap TIFF and set them to overprint in Quark. The trick is to avoid moire with the RIP’s halftones. That may require color correcting the images below in ways to gain an angle for the shadow, using stochastic or even Photoshop’s dither.

Oh! I’m going to Scrapbook this thread, too. Not for its wonderful file prep instructions but as a testament to the confusion of it all.

I have yet to feel confident about all this stuff to actually know I could be functional in a real world situation be it as a consultant or prepress monkey for that matter. This plays in my head constantly…

…."OK, you can have a transparent background with dropshadow with what format? in what app and version?… but it will not work in spot color but you can overprint if you do this workaround?…wait, you say it must be DCS2 but some RIPs won’t read it? Which RIPs you say? Oh, you didn’t say. Damn! I should’ve asked that!… So how should I begin designing this? It’s only a picture on a piece of paper! Give me a break!"…

Is it a wonder my Scrapbook on this stuff has blossomed to 40MB? That’s not including all the pdf tutorials as well.

Then I walk into a bookstore and see the tons of books and magazines that tell me there’s a lot of people that don’t seem to be having the same conversation running through their head and are able to crank it out with no trouble at all and on a deadline to boot. I guess I’m retarded or have a learning disability.

I think I’ll take the advice from a fellow poster in these forums and go to work at a CompUSA as a consumer level instructor/salesman in the digicam/inkjet department and work strictly in rasterland and espouse on the wonders of color management. And if anyone comes up to me asking about prepress, I’m going to run away screaming pulling my hair out! What little is left.

Does anybody have a spare brain I could use, temporarily of course? I’ll kindly pay you on Tuesday. 8)

DCS2 is a Quark creation (I think).
It has always worked (for me) with any imagesetter, software and hardware RIPs since Star and Viper (postsript one, I think).
I place images in Illustrator for position only.