know its not helpful but why do u want it off? its better to have it on.
I’m told otherwise, ie advice I read some time back said not to embed profiles for print work.
Could you be confusing that "advice" with the way that should create PDFs for Press output?
PDF Settings:
Advanced
Color: Leave Unchanged
Include ICC Profiles: Off
As long as you’re working with tagged files, that option will always be on when you Save or Save As. The only way to have it automatically off is to untag the file prior to saving.
Carl.
turn off auto "save embedded profile"
Of course, this is crazy bad advice for 100 percent of Photoshop users (unless they understand exactly WHY they are doing it.
you don’t say who told you this but if it is your printer. Run far away very fast and find a new one.
I saw it on a colour management website, which now eludes me (and the by-product is making me look like a fool!).
I work in PS, then into InDesign. From there I create a postscript using my printers Heidelberg settings.
Lastly, I distill and create PDFs – this is then made straight to plate.
If the considered advice is "Embed the Euroscale uncoated profile", I’ll do so.
I didn’t for the last 12 months and have never had any colour issues once my work goes to press.
I’ll make no bones about the fact that colour management does my head in!
Try slugging through these:
Bruce Fraser "Assign Profile versus Soft Proofing" 7/25/04 4:54pm </cgi-bin/webx?14/0>
Ramón G Castañeda "Color Management" 7/23/04 6:29pm </cgi-bin/webx?14/0>
I can’t recall which thread Andrew Rodney
<
http://digitaldog.imagingrevue.com/tips/>
goes off on when to untag CMYK, but I recall it was quite clear and informative. SEARCH "rodney rips" hit this (for starters)
Andrew Rodney "Does removing an embedded cmyk profile change the output of a cmyk tiff?" 7/11/04 10:22am </cgi-bin/webx?13/3>
And Bruce Fraser also has discussed this Unatgged CMYK here many times…
If you’re sending CMYK files to a commercial printer, there a lot of reasons indeed to not embed a profile. The biggest one is that someone in their prepress department won’t convert it by mistake. Most offset printers just want to image the pixels the way you send them, and not embedding a profile is the easiest way to insure that.
Just because a printer might recommend untagged files is no reason to run the other way. Printers were doing great print work long before ICC profiles were common.
And then there’s MO’s sage words:
Tags are only useful if the file needs to be edited downstream. Which
is pretty much all the time.
But ya NEVER EVER should Untag RGB (unless it is going on the internet, and we want to reduce file size).
It’s a double edge sward guys.
damn if you do and damn if you don’t.
Until, um…..
Marc,
Since I don’t work with CMYK I’ll not get involved in the tagged image debate. However, since nobody has yet answered your question then:-
If you find yourself with a lot of files with embedded profiles that you don’t want then they are easily removed using one the Example Scripts provided by Apple in your Applications folder (see Applications>AppleScript>Example Scripts>ColorSync>Remove Profile from Image
Well if your workflow works and your color is good then keep on doing what you are doing.
If the equipment that the CMYK files are printed to ignores profiles, then there can be no harm in embedding the tags right?
If the equipment that the CMYK files are printed to HONORS profiles, then it is probably that way for a good reason, despite CMYK>CMYK conversion issues like remapping blacks.
What is the argument again for NOT tagging images?
Not sure how much this adds to the debate, my work doesn’t get touched, it goes CTP. ie my PDF goes to plate, it doesn’t get treated after me.
Where does that leave us?
🙂
….in the dark, with the rest of the printing industry.
Marc:
Does your CTP system honor profiles or not? You never gave a reason why you are stripping tags. Chances are you don’t have to, and your CTP system will ignore the tags and just process the CMYK numbers (perhaps applying a tone reproduction curve).
You should talk to the CTP system manufacturers/tech support if you don’t know.
Mike:
If you figure out any software that is idiot-proof, I’m on board.
As long as color management exists, with user options, there will be the capacity to choose the wrong option.
Like converting RGB>CMYK using some esoteric custom profile, and then figuring you can send that CMYK file to Hong Kong, or anywhere else in the world.
John,
I’m absolutely sure of my self at this point that I have a winning formula for success.
I’m willing to bet my career on it, for what that’s worth.
what point
what formula
what career 🙂
Ann
Regarding turning the ICC Profiles OFF (re. your #3 post).
Where did you read that… or is it something you’ve discovered as best?
I don’t remember where I originally learned that that, but I do it because the file is already a CMYK PDF; and I want it to go to directly to Plate with Colors Unchanged (and no monkey-business in the RIP).
We send Ads. directly to publications and they seem to print looking exactly as expected.
looking exactly as expected…
Now there’s the rub isn’t it?
As I expect, and what’s even more important, what my Client (having approved the proof print) expects.
I am actually quite surprised by how well the pressmen on these high-speed web presses maintain color consistently from edition to edition.
I did a seminar today (for ASMP, lots of photographers) but a few prepress guys where in the audience. The topic came up. As a Gemini I gave my split personality advise:
If you’re sending the numbers to the device in output space, you have no intention of having the shop open or covert/edit the file, they don’t need a profile.
Twin Gemini feels that it’s just right to always embed profiles. Untagged files are just too damn problematic.
Print guys in audience said they actually PREFER to get embedded profiles. IF something goes wrong on press, they want to check out the files and they find the embedded profiles useful, as they should, not wanting CMYK mystery meat. Bravo for these progressive printers!
If you have a lot of images all going to the same output device the main downside to the profile is the added size (a few megs per image). You have 500 images going into a book that adds up. But storage space is cheap. So while this Gemini is still split on the right answer, I lean towards embedding profile. If every printer where as hip to color management as these guys, no question I’d lean even farther to the embedding of CMYK profiles.
Andrew:
I definitely embed profiles in all images and Indesign or Illustrator documents.
But, when I make PDFs to send to publications (and they ONLY get the CMYK PDF but are not sent either the image files nor the page-layout document), then there seems no point in including the Profile as the separations are already made; and we just want them to go directly to plate.
(An increasing number of magazines are now specifying that they require PDFs and will no longer accept film.)
The "Leave Color Unchanged" option is checked because if the file contains Spot colors or is supposed to print in two colors, we don’t want it to turn into 4c Process.
I would be interested in your take on this.
An ICC tag should be something as simple as a 50k text identifier for a SWOP standard sep via a binding workflow.
The current implementation of Color Mgmt. is so dated.
Due to the nature of PDF, I suspect that the profile is of little use.
Best consultants on earth are Geminis. Make no mistake about it.
On the other hand….
