Beth,
Thank you for pointing out the site. I had a quick read through and am happy how Ilford paper was doing in the comparison.
Robert
Speaking of Ilford Paper, I was in Sam’s Club the other day and ours is carrying one the photo papers. $26 or 100 sheets 8.5×11
Dick
Speaking of Ilford Paper, I was in Sam’s Club the other day and ours is
carrying one the photo papers. $26 or 100 sheets 8.5×11
Dick
Dick – did you buy any? Please let us know how it performs; it’s even cheaper than the Kodak!
🙂
Chuck
Nope, I didn’t, but next time I’m there if they have it I’ll buy it. If it’s no good for me I can use it at school.
Dick
Dick,
If you think of it, report back with the name of the Ilford paper. I looked at our Sam’s and they don’t seem to carry any, but I’ll check again tomorrow. If it’s glossy photo paper, it might be a bargain ( I’ll certainly buy it and see how it profiles ). I’m looking for a glossy paper for my new pigmented ink " printflow" <G> .
🙂
Brent
Brent, the epson Colorlife says it doesn’t work with pig ink…so now that you are using pig ink…you better send me all your paper 😉
I’m a little unclear. is that ‘ Hmmmm! ‘ a yes or a no ? 😉
( Seems like female intuition could answer that one <G> )
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:10:06 -0800, wrote:
I found this link on another forum and thought some people might want to take a look.
< http://www.photographicage.com/content/issues/volume_01/issu e_04/review_2.htm>
Some they didn’t review include the TDK Pro and Reference grade glossy papers. They are exceptionally heavy (9.8 and 11.8 mils thick, respectively) and have a great, smooth gloss surface. I’ve also found these work very well with Epson printers. Probably not a good choice for the 2200 (pigment-based), however, but perfect for the others. Maybe the best thing about TDK is their price–I recently ordered several packs (20 ea) from Buy.Com at $7.80 each pack & free shipping. Recently ordered several hundred sheets from Super Warehouse for $7.99/20, and this is the best glossy paper I’ve ever seen! It seems to me a classier paper than Epson’s Pro Glossy.
Oh crap, I don’t have that intuition….I’m part lizard.
Bert,
I believe, after visitng Ilford’s site, that it is Ilford Gallerie, Classic Gloss, but I’ll double check.
Now I’m curious about it, so I guess I’ll buy a box.
I have, however, been getting absolutely beautiful results with some of the Red River papers lately. I bought one of their sampler packs and I’m almost ready to order some of their 68lb. UltraPro Gloss and the 62lb. UltraPro Satin. I particularly like the satin.
BTW, I use a Lexmark z52 printer.
Dick
The Ilford Galerie "Classic Pearl paper" is the one I use all the time. I have no problems with it that images turn slightly red as I believe that gives the images a but more warmth.
But to be fair I haven’t really experimented with paper from other producers.
The ilford paper dries relatively quickly. I am not a semi or a high gloss fan as I feel the gloss overpowers the image.
Robert
While selecting different papers to use in your printer here is a tip I found. Don’t limit your horizons! A while back I was doing some Japanese type ink brush sketches and I liked the results so decided to print a few. Just on a whim I ran a few sheets of high quality watercolour paper through the printer….well I was very pleasantly surprised. I have no idea how long they will last but for the purpose it gave a wonderful feeling….anyhow just a thought.
g.
Grant, what brand did you use?
Barbara
It was about a year ago and …. I try to paint but I’m not that great In my quest for answers I do tend to by different art supplies so … who knows. All I remember was that it was the limit of the thickness my printer would handle and that it was a rag based paper. It did sop up the ink but it looked like water colours when I was finished. Sorry I can’t be any more explicit, but like me you will just have to try.
Grant
It did sop up the ink
That’s the part that is making me nervous. Guess I’ll just have to get a couple of extra sets of cartridges and experiment.
Chuck and Dick,
Went over to our Sam’s club and they are carrying Ilford Smooth Gloss Paper, 100 sheets for $23.60 . It claims compatibility with both dye based and pigment based inks, and for my printer, the Epson Photo 890 to use the Premium Glossy paper settings in the driver. I printed a IT-8 calibration target sheet on the paper and it looks very good so far. I’m using pigment based ink and the paper appears to be instantly dry, just like the Epson paper, with vibrant colors. It may not be quite as high a gloss as the Epson Premium, but it is nice looking. After I give the target a day to thoroughly dry ( even though it seems dry right now ), I’ll profile the paper and see how well real pics look on it. So far , I’m encouraged . I know I’ll use it for something . I was a little leery that I might have a drying or ink pooling problem ( the most common disqualifier on non-Epson papers ), but this looks just fine. Compared to Kodak paper, this is a 15 and Kodak is a 2 . I’ve never been able to get good results on the Kodak photo papers, wrong chemistry I’d guess.
🙂
Brent
Brent, thanks – when I go to Sam’s next time (for some $12.41 jeans…!), I’ll pick up a pack of the Ilford!
🙂
Brent, thanks for the report. I haven’t been back to Sam’s since I saw it but I think I’ll make the trip now.
Dick
So who’s going to send me some?! We’re in Costco territory (nearest Sams is way too many miles away to be usable), and I looked while I was there today and didn’t see any Ilford. I did find something else cool, though! They’re selling two gift certificates for one pound boxes of See’s Candy for $19.95! Keep that in mind, guys, because Valentine’s Day is just around the corner! 🙂
Hmm! It’s not like I don’t have your address ! <G>
🙂
Brent
Jodi, I misunderstood…..I thought Beth was sending chocolates to all of US!!
Beth is getting chocolates
Beth is getting chocolates
Beth is getting chocolates
( in that irritating repetative tone )
ah…. I see…OK then…pure swiss chocolate will be fine for me. Thank you Beth 😉
Clearly, Chuck and I are on the same wavelength !! <G>
🙂 ( Printing some on my cheap Ilford paper ! )
I use the Sam’s Ilford paper on my Canon i850 and it is wonderful. Prior to that I always used Epson glossy paper. I can’t see any real difference. I bought 5 boxes of the Ilford, just in case Sam’s stopped carrying it. However, they always seem to have many boxes every time I look.
Steve
Haven’t tried their inkjet papers myself, but if someone has a lot of money to spend you might check out the Bergger papers. Very pricey, but I have used their traditonal photo papers and am very fond of them.
Does anyone know if the Ilford that some of you are using is compatible with the UltraChrome inks on the Epson 2200?
Rich
Richard, the coated Ilford papers are compatible with ultrachrome inks. Ilford is selling the Epson 7600 and 9600 with their name on it, a barcode reader and Ilford software to be used with -of course- Ilford papers.
Leen
Hi Leen,
After I posted I made a trip to the Ilford website. It looks like they recommend the papers labeled Galerie Smooth (which come in gloss and pearl) for use with the 2200. Prices on BH are good, a bit cheaper than the Epson papers, may give them a try.
Thanks,
Rich
Hi Richard,
I’ve used the Ilford papers in my 2100 as well. The profile is in my experience about equal to the Epson papers.
Leen
I went to Sam’s Club to look for the Ilford paper, but what they had was in a light blue box. And from what I could determine from the Ilford website, that is a double sided matte finish paper for brochures, etc.. From what I can see, this is not the photo paper that was talked about in the review at the beginning of this thread. Or am I just confused?
Jim, there’s no consistency from one Sam’s to another as to what they carry. Ours doesn’t have any computer paper at all, and only rarely any computer peripherals or computers. Just when they get a remaindered lot of something.
Jim,
My Ilford Smooth Gloss Paper is in a greenish/blue box , not at all like the box on Ilford website. It even said on the shrinkwrap something about different packaging. My paper is from Sam’s , and it confuses me slightly , too .
🙂
Brent
Jim,
I believe that the ilford paper you are looking for is part of the Ilford "Galerie". All paper in this series seems to have a picture of the face of a young woman on the front of the box. There are red coloured boxes and other coloured ones.
I use the classic pearl paper from these series and the whole box looks kind of blackish with in the middle the face of the girl fading through the black.
Make sure that you know the dimensions of the paper as lately they only seem to offer over-size (the "plus") dimensions. This however may be a just European thing.
Robert
So Brent…..what’s a 2880 dpi printer paper? Does it have 2880 receptors per inch for ink dots??
🙂
Chuck
Indeed it does, Chuck ! Those little cuplets to gather the ink are electrostatically charged, so the ink is attracted to them at Warp speeds !
🙂
( Life is good in Foster’s land )
Brent
Brent, that is truly amazing! I guess one has to set the ppi output from Elements carefully to make sure the ink hits the cup dead on – like a Tiger Woods putt!
🙂
Chuck,
For special occasions, I divide 2880 by 4.3 ( the alcohol % in Foster’s ) and round up to 600 ppi. The images turn out quite fine, although they print a little slow.
🙂
Brent, it looks like the answer to your problem is to drink a stronger beer, so the denominator of your equation is larger and the ppi is smaller. Believe I’ll drink to that!
(p.s. my Grey Goose vodka is 40% alcohol, so I’m betting I can print at 72 ppi!)
Imagine what nice prints they could make in Belgium. 😉
If people must drink Australian beer I wish they wouldn’t chose Foster’s – the best beer in the world is produced here in South Australia – Cooper’s Sparkling Ale. Highly recommended.
Susan, Foster’s has a very clever advertising campaign here, although I’m not sure whether the humor would be appreciated there.
Wonder if Cooper’s is available here?
Chuck
I can’t tell by the picture… is it Y2K certified?
Brent, i’m seriously thinking bout the paper you posted. i guess if I don’t like it I can save it for my daughter who has been bugging me for a digital camera since before christmas..she’s 5. Help At least i noticed walmart carries mini digis for kids…not too awfully expensive…<sigh>
Jodi, just make sure the mini-digis aren’t battery eaters. I heard from a friend who got a free Kodak digi with his new computer that it goes through a set of 2 AA’s every 15 to 20 pictures! Not sure what model it is, but I’d say that’s a problem….
Chuck
Susan, thanks. We have a very large purveyor of fine beverages here in Houston; I’ll check their stocks!
Chuck
Susan,
Thanks for the Cooper’s link. I’ll poke around at World Market and maybe get lucky. I’ve asked my mom ( an aussie who lives in Cincinnati, now ) and she didn’t know any other Australian beers ( aside from Foster’s ). She’s been here, of course, except for short visits to Brisbane, since 1946 .
🙂
Brent
Jodi,
The Ilford Smooth Gloss paper seems to perform much like the Epson Premium Glossy. It’s a lot less expensive at $23 + for 100 sheets, so I’d say its worth a try.
🙂
Brent
Richard,
" Imagine what nice prints they could make in Belgium. 😉 " Is Belgium the home of Frambois, that lovely raspberry beer/liquer ?
I received a couple bottles from my future son-in-law at Christmas. It’s very enervating !
🙂
Brent
Brent, yup, will try it. just have to find someone in my area that sells it ! That may be difficult. then again, STAPLES always tells me they can order whatever i want…I haven’t check to see if they have it..they may..they carry all my Epson paper and ink. Maybe I’ll get out of my cave tomorrow and check it out. Gosh, winter is not my friend.
Brent, I’ve been looking up the Galerie smooth photo paper and the cheapest I’ve found is amazon @ $43.95 per 100 sheets. They also have the pearl at same price…have you tried that ? Anyways, I’m going to look up my local Staples now and see if they carry it. So Sam’s sells it for $24 per 100 ?? hmmmm, maybe in your state.
Of Mind, Of Health, Of the Nation?
Brent,
I don’t know that Rasberry drink, but Belgium is very well known for fine beers and those Trappists make some really powerful brews.
Jodi,
I’ve read that the Pearl is similar to Epson’s Premium Luster. And I haven’t seen it online for less that the Amazon price you quoted. If you can get it for $24, stock up!
Rich
Richard, that’s just it…I can’t find it at that price ! Apparently Brent has connections ;)….he’s paying that $24 price.
The raspberry beer might be from Belgium, the Netherlands or the UK, but a quick Google search learnt me that they brew such a beer in Texas too.
Leen
We used to get a great Belgian ale in Michigan. Very expensive but worth every penny. It had the tiniest bubbles I can remember and the guys that sold it said it should be consumed from a long stemmed glass.
Jodi,
The Smooth Gloss Paper from Ilford is $23 at Sam’s , but no other Ilford paper , yet. A few weeks ago, we didn’t even have the one. I hope the Pearl does come available. Epson Premium luster is lovely with this new inkset, and cheaper would be real nice.
🙂
Brent
Rich, I got a little confused by your post; Pearl is a Texas beer, and you segued from beers to paper….
🙂
Chuck, it’s one of those strings where you need a score card to tell the players. Oh no, I just sequed to baseball. 🙂
I was just looking over the Epson R300M photo printer at steve’s digicams and I’m impressed. AND…..It is in fact Mac compatible.
This is absolutely the most hilarious thread…paper and beer!
I must agree with RIchard, though, that the Belgian ales are the finest in the world IMNSHO. I just drank a nice, generous big bottle of Cimay White Label last night…kaboom, strong stuff! I think they are all around 7%. Wonderful stuff. I also like Duvel and a number of others whose names I can’t remember. As for Foster’s….you can have it. I think there are better Aussie beers. Out here in Caleefornya (as our new governer says) we drink a lot of very good Mexican brews. But I am also a fan of Dutch beers. Not just Heineken and Amstel. I drink a lot of Oranjeboom and Peters and a new one called Three Horses, or something like that.
Bert
Funny, I don’t know any beers named either Three Horses or Peters. Probably other names for the US market.
Leen
These beers are new to me too.
The chimay is a good beer.
Have you tried the trappist with a bit of raspberry of bramberry syrip in it? It is called a triple and tastes of course rather sweet. However if you just do a smitch in the glass you have this rather confusing taste of bitter and sweet.
The belgian beers are strong and are meant to enjoy over the course of an evening and are not meant for "speed" drinking.
Robert
Peters Brand and Three Horses are sold in a local discount store, and they say product of Holland on the can.
When I open one of those big bottles, it usually lasts me an hour or more. One is all I can handle. They’re at least 750ml.
I have seen the fruit-flavored ones, but I find them too sweet for my taste. Bert
Thanks, Chuck. Now if I only spoke Dutch…
Bert
Bert, I just wanted to prove to Leen that Three Horses is indeed a product of Holland. What better way than to use a website from his native land?! 🙂
HAH! We finally got one up on Leen! Good for you, Chuck! 🙂
Bert
Bert: Don’t celebrate prematurely….Leen is a very clever person and I expect some snappy comeback from him….
🙂
Chuck
Ahum…..
Indeed the "three horses" used to be a Dutch brewery. It originates from Breda. Quite a pleasant sort of medieval town south of Rotterdam in the province of Brabant.
However the brewery got sold to Allied Breweries of the UK.
Despite the fact that the beer originates from Holland I have never seen it. May be it is a local beer which then would explain why I have not come across it. Haven’t been in Breda for more than 20 years.
Or… may be it is exported to the US only.
Robert, not Leen, sorry 🙁
I checked it out: it is the export brand for the USA. The name of the brewery, translated by myself, without Babel Fish, is "Three Horse Shoes".
I suppose, as Americans tend to be afraid of reading anything over 3 words, they left their shoes in Holland.
Anyone who doesn’t agree with my opinions about my lazy Americans? "X-mas" instead of Christmas
"Ped-X-ing" instead of Pedestrians Crossing
"Bagdad Bob" instead of my favourite stand up comedian Mohammed al-Sahhaf
I’m not afraid of what these Americans might think about me; Mohammed told me: "Americans? There are no Americans on this Forum"
😉
Leen
"I suppose, as Americans tend to be afraid of reading anything over 3 words, they left their shoes in Holland."
Leen, perhaps those generous Americans left their shoes behind so the people of Holland wouldn’t have to wear those infernal wooden ones…!
🙂
Chuck
Chuck, I notice you never walked on wooden shoes.
Once you get used to wearing clogs you will learn to appreciate this shoewear. Warm in winter, cool in summer!
If you Americans weren’t that stubborn to stick to Nike or Converse, we would have a wonderful export product!
Imagine: John Wayne on wooden shoes….. or Jackie Robinson….or Stormin’ Norman…
😉
Leen
Hi, Carl. My system isn’t terribly different from what Beth does. I save things in folders by subject, mostly. For instance, yesterday I was in Lake Wales getting shots of an abandoned fertilizer factory, some phosphate mines, and the Bok Singing Tower (a tremendous challenge for a vertical photomerge, btw–I’ve never managed yet because the light changes so dramatically as you go up) and its gardens. The Bok photos go in a folder labelled Bok (I’ll remember there are camellia and spanish moss portraits in there without notes) and the rest in Architecture or Industrial, depending.
Of course, I don’t take nearly as many photos as most of y’all do–usually when I need a pic of something or other, so I don’t have as much to organize. And I’ve never been big on organizational software for any purpose, myself. I think I just tend to think in ways that are too different from how programmers think.
As for iphoto, I do have to say that I think it was a good idea when it started. Back then almost everyone was brand new to digital and its way of organizing your digipics like they came from a film roll made it easier for lots of people. But there are many, many people who’ve gone way beyond that stage now.
Oops. Posted this in the wrong thread. Sorry.
Barbara, you’d better be careful; this thread is getting rough!
🙂
ya it turned into the review of inkjet beer !
Gosh, so I’m still looking for ilford galerie paper and there isn’t any in my area. Amazon will be the place I guess.
I’ll be off for a little while…but I’ll be back…I’d like to get to the bottom of this !
oops, I drank waht barb drank…posted that on wrong thread !
I thought you were going to get to the bottom of one of those beers we were drinking…I mean discussing…here!
This thread is going totally wacko!
Have I picked up somewhere in these discussions, that since I have an HP, I would do best sticking to HP injet paper for my photos?
Pat, the Epson and Canon people have said that their machines work best on their own papers; I’m not sure we HP’ers have the same concerns. I’ve been very happy with Kodak paper, which is the cheapest alternative here. But I’m not sure my ‘eye’ is as well-trained as others…
Chuck
I have both an Epson and an HP (5650). The Epson definitely prefers Epson paper, but the HP seems more "omnivorous"…although I must admit I haven’t done much photographic printing on the HP…just bought it a few weeks ago.
Bert
"Omnivorous" – good word, Bert! So my HP is like a junkyard dog…. 😉
I suppose , Pat, that it would be more accurate to say that you should perfect your printing technique using papers recommended by the printer manufacturer. When you are satisfied with the results, then experiment with other papers. That way you have a benchmark for your results. I remember a thread a couple years ago, that went on for quite awhile, and was solved by changing paper to the manufacturer’s recommended paper.
No sense starting out the hard way, but we all like to search for different, and less expensive solutions.
🙂
Brent
That’s "junkyard dawg " , Chuck ! <G>
Leen, thanks for the link !!!
Thanks Brent. I am not adverse to buying a new printer, but I would like to figure out first if paper selection or color management, or lack of, can lead to better prints. I think you are right…I have been getting paper from Office Depot and merely chose the paper with the "specials", even though I stick to good quality paper. I will back up and try an assortment of HP’s.
Pat,
The HP printer driver is not particularly flexible in its color management settings. HP does its own thing, and doesn’t plan on letting you screw it up ( improve it, either, of course ). My wife gets her best HP results ( Photosmart 1115 ) using HP Premium Glossy Paper, in BEST mode of course, using the "Printer Color Management" print space output profile, located in Print Preview.
The HP, I believe, also prefers the sRGB colorspace, so you may get better results from "limited color management" in Elements, rather than " full color management" mode .
Just a few thoughts,
🙂
Brent
No kidding…I will certainly try that. Does she used any color management in the printer manager in addition?
Brent, come to think of it, I have gotten best results with the same paper, but color still is not perfect and I actually prefer a more matte finish. speaking of finishes, how does one decide to use a matte or glossy finish?
I prefer Matte paper , or luster paper, myself. I think the finishes hide imperfections better . My favorite Matte paper is Epson HeavyWeight Matte which works quite well on my wife’s printer, as well as my Epsons . I suspect that the matte papers are far more compatible with any inkset compared to glossy papers.
I also find that glossy papers that are not-quite-compatible can have some surface pooling of ink that is not absorbed . That is distressing when viewed at an angle. At best, you shouldn’t be able to see ink on the paper surface at all on a print.
🙂
Brent
I have to say that even with my cheapo little HP 920C, the results are dramatically better with the HP paper for things that matter. It’s worth the money. The driver is well set up to work with the various HP papers, Brent, even if it doesn’t give you a lot of flexibility for off-brand setups.
Prior to Panther, and in XP, I have gotten the best results with color management Off in PE and using the driver setting for the particular paper I’m using. It’s not as fancy as the Epson or canon drivers, but they do have it set up pretty well for their own stuff.
EDIT Oh, and "same as source" in PE print preview.
But if you use color management <G> "same as source" bypasses the color translation, so use "Printer Color Management" and sRGB space.
" An incorrect color management file (.ICM) that causes the onscreen color to differ from the printed color might be installed. The HP Photosmart Color Inkjet Printers only support sRGB.ICM. That is, if any other color management is used, the printer might use colors other than those that appear on the screen. To correct this, or to troubleshoot, see the following steps: …" Hp website, on troubleshooting color problems .
🙂
Brent
Sorry, Brent. Tried it, didn’t like it, I’m afraid. What I do I arrived at by experiment and it works for me, whatever theory may say about whether or not it should work. Different strokes, I guess, but even my decidely non-photo printer was giving me great results in jaguar and XP with those settings..
EDIT Don’t forget, mine isn’t a photo-ret printer. Maybe that makes a difference.
Robert and Leen,
Saw some Three Horses in the Bev&More store a few miles from my house. Somehow I got the impression that was the anglicized name for the Mexican beer Tres Aquis (sp>). Will investigate and report next Monday. Weekend crowds sometimes pack the place.
Shan
I’m still Googling for a similar website about beer
Leen,
Which beer to use with which ink?
🙂
Bert
Barbara,
The problem with the whole color management "ball of wax" is that it’s not implemented uniformly by all manufacturers , and that it’s not transparent to the users. We actually shouldn’t have to be encyclopedic about this stuff, but you keep getting drawn in more , trying to figure out a solution in an imperfect system.
Trying to use color management on hardware that has its own system of color management is a lost cause. HP is the prime example, since they have always had excellent hardware and solutions . You just have to do it their way.
🙂
Brent
