I'm designing a book with many grayscale images. In the past single channel grayscale images tend to look rather flat. As a result, this time around I'm thinking about converting all GS images to CMYK, hoping that four inks will produce a richer looking image than one. Any thoughts on how best to achieve what I'm looking for (without using duotones)?
Thanks.
#1
You could do this if the printer and you are OK spending the money to print 4 color B&W. You might want a CMYK profile that has pretty high GCR so a lot of black ink is used in the mix and be careful the profile and conversions are good as I expect you want neutral B&W printed in 4 color (not all that easy). You can also load a CMYK profile into the Grayscale setup (in color settings) should you end up wanting to print with only black but using the CMYK profile for producing a conversion based on only the black plate. I'd have a serious conversation with your printer before you do ANYTHING.
#2
Consider printing as Duotones using a Warm Gray and Cool Black inks.
#3
Ann's Duotone suggestion is (IMO) the best and the pressman will love you for it as well.
#4
Something I forgot to mention. The book will have many color images too, and will be printed as 4 color process. Adding Pantone inks is not a possibility, so there goes the duotone idea.
Scott
#5
Find you a very good printer or lower your expectations for consistant neutrals across multiple pages.
#6
If you can group your color and BW images in separate printer's folios, you could save a bundle!
Otherwise, I would go for Heavy Black GCR separations for the BWs to hopefully maintain neutrality.
#7
You might try pasting the grayscale in all 4 channels of a CMYK file, then impart a curve on the C,M & Y to devoid the highlight - 1/4tone of value, starting the seps somewhere in the 1/4 tone to midtone range, proceeding to a 50% cyan shadow and 40% mag and yel shadow.
This will print more neutrally than a standard CMYK conversion or even a heavy GCR separation both of which will rely on C,M & Y to create the highlight - 1/4tone range.
Replacing that with a single color black, then adding under-color to the mid-3/4-shadow range will provide extra depth and richness without creating neutrality problems on press.
While Ann's black and gray duotone is by far the best solution, the above method may be used in a 4 color job and does not require a spot ink.
#8
Hey John,
You think you could pdf a tutorial on this technique and link it for download? Sounds really cool.
If not, thanks for the neat tip.
#9
I'm with Ann also.
Use a 5th color black.
It should only add hundreds of dollars to a project.
(I suspect that's not an-arm-and-a-leg in book publishing)
#10
Scott,
What I've done in the past is to take the greyscale file and copy the channel from that file, paste it into a CMYK document as a color fill layer mask.
That way you can retain the greyscale files "status" and control the 4 color build as you need fit. It's basically a reversable color space separation routine between greyscale and CMYK. You can then blend any custom mix in_FULL_ non linear fashion. If you want to adjust the CMY, just change the solid fill values. If you want to adjust the tone of the image, you adjust the black channel, via a color curve adjustment layer. If you want to create a colorized effect to a greyscale you change the color fill layer_OR_adjust the curve to your liking.
You should convert the image from the "correct" assigned greyscale color space to a linear, SWOP standard.
and yes, were going all the way, no stopping, the next town is motown!
Put that in the book and smoke it Andrew, Um sir...dude!
All the way home!
motown.
Didn't someone all ready think of that one?
#11
and yea,
I'm out of my mind..
one who works 165.5 hours in a two week period is, well, um, whatever....
#12
Is that with or without bathroom breaks? ;)
#13
Okay, these are some great ideas. Here's the other catch. I have at least 200 images that I need to perform this kind of magic on. Can I automate one of these techniques (Mike Ornellas', for example) with an Action?
Gratefully yours,
Scott
#14
Only if an action can transfer info from one document to another. (not sure)
OR
You could set up the CMYK color space in the color settings to the old color look up tables with black generation set to max. This will give you a K only separation in CMYK. You can then work the script from there. Unfortunately the image will be somewhat flat due to the fact that the color space(s) of the look up tables, for the most part, suck. This wouldn't be my first choice.
When dealing with a 4 color mix, with images that range from mostly light or mostly dark or whatever, It's difficult to just tell you to run an action. Some images may need more CMY due to the tonal shaping.
In conclusion:
Due to the behavior of Quadtones, I'd stay away from things like automatic or batching.
And like Andrew says, you better talk to the printer before you send the job down the pipe or it may pass the processing plant and go directly into the ocean.
#15
If it already hasn't come to you, everyone here, this working methodology is the replacement for the duotone mode, but with far better, "accurate" previews along with better image control. The duotone mode UI is a real pain.
We could go even deeper to say that it will also be the solution for multichannel spot color documents, but I don't want to hurt people too much this weekend.
We could also say that this is part of the,-Um,- bigger picture to change the world, and to "think" like Mike.
#16
no more multichannel.
no more greyscale.
no more duotone mode.
no more DCS 2.
old technology.....
#17
Scott:
try this.
Start recording an action.
from the Greyscale file, load a luminance mask and save it.
Convert to CMYK.
Create color fill layer.
define 4 color build of Quadtone.
Place the luminance mask into that layer.
Add curve adjustment layer.
Add white layer.
discard background layer.
stop recording.
You may need to modify the sequence of events so the layer order comes up correctly.
#18
Okay, now we're talking. I'll give it a try. If this works, Mike, you're a genius. If it doesn't work, you're still a genius. Happy Fourth!
Scott
#19
yea sure.
If I'm so smart, how come I can't make a buck out of all of this.
oh well.
#20
If I'm so smart, how come I can't make a buck out of all of this.
Because there's clearly no relationship between brains and bucks. I give you George W.
SC
#21
Mo is a genius! He's also a legend in his own mind. Mike's pretty good too. Crayola, he's on crack.
#22
Scott Citron just puked his brain cell.
(I hope he can put it back)
#23
Infamous is a far better status than famous. You can_have_fame Andrew.
#24
Todie:
Deaf people don't need cell phones.
#25
.... I don't know about portable solutions for deaf people, but some use phones quite successfully.
Scott's experimenting with CMYK (in hopes of better blacks) shows that he's an outsider looking in and asking for guidance.
Than he insults some (half?) of the pros who could help. (beggars shouldn't be choosers)
#26
Scott's experimenting with CMYK (in hopes of better blacks) shows that he's an outsider looking in and asking for guidance. Than he insults some (half?) of the pros who could help.
(beggars shouldn't be choosers)
Um, and how exactly did I insult anyone? Sorry if I did (?) but I've barely participated in this thread as anything more than a listener.
Scott
#27
No surprise!
#28
Scott,
how exactly did I insult anyone?
Presumably your post # 20. Todie is a big Dubbya fan. Otherwise he's a fine fellow. :)
#29
Presumably your post # 20. Todie is a big Dubbya fan. Otherwise he's a fine fellow.
Oh that? I'd forgotten about that quip. Ah well, no offense meant. C'mon, it's an election year.
SC
#30
Ramón, I'm not a fan of anything or anyone.
(except the Mac and Photoshop, and this... chair,.. and ... : )
#31
Todie,
Well you always rise up to defend Bush and Margaret Thatcher. :)
#32
That I do, but I cannot defend that which is not attacked in the first place : )
#33
LT:
There is one huge difference between the land of your forefathers and America.
Here we are still (I think?) free to criticize our leaders.
You don't have to jump down the throat of any-, and every-, one who does so.
That's why you choose to live here isn't it?
[Yes, I DO know that it is not the Fourth today but some people are still lighting fireworks!]
#34
Ann, You forget that we are free not only to criticize but to defend as well : ) (if I was harsh, it's because this thread has nothing to do with politics)
#35
I'm your latin lover....
#36
Lah, dee dah!
#37