Layer selection in CS2… what happened?

P
Posted By
pwing
May 12, 2005
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1449
Replies
41
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Closed
In Photoshop CS I was able to load the layer selection by holding down the alt key and clicking on the layer in the layers palette. For some reason I can’t find the shortcut in CS2. Can someone help me with this?

Thanks in advance
Peter

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YrbkMgr
May 12, 2005
Up through version 7 at least, it’s been Control click not Alt click. Have you tried that?
P
pwing
May 12, 2005
Thanks for the reply. Yes I’ve tried all the different variations and combinations (cntrl/alt/windows/shift etc.) The weird thing is that when I place the pointer over the layer and depress the ctrl (or alt) nothing happens. It used to be that the pointer would change to the small square selection box. Now it doesn’t change at all. (???)

Peter
A
abclapp
May 12, 2005
I just noticed that yesterday, too. I went back to CS to see if I imagined it. Worked fine. In CS2, tried other <Ctrl> + functions to see if I had a hacked version of CS2 (DL’d from Adobe, so, shouldn’t have been ) and other functions worked. Only <Ctrl>+click doesn’t work now.

So…?

ABC
Y
YrbkMgr
May 12, 2005
Okay, let me get this straight, as I’m about to upgrade to CS2 and this would P*ss me off.

You cannot Control Click on a layer and its contents be selected? Is that the case?

I am curious as to whether many people use this feature or not (I do). Can anyone else verify that this functionality is missing?
JB
Jonathan_Balza
May 12, 2005
You can ctrl-click on a layer to load it as a selection. You just have to do it on the thumbnail in the layer, not over the area where the layer name is. The layer name area has been reserved for selecting multiple layers now.

It’s a small change, and I got used to it very quickly.
Y
YrbkMgr
May 12, 2005
Whew! Thanks Jonathan.
DP
Daryl_Pritchard
May 12, 2005
Tony,

Link manipulation is also different in CS2…no more link icon for point-and-click selection. I’ve yet to decide for my own preferences if this is a nuisance as a first thought, or overall more useful. Here’s a flash movie illustrating layer selection and linking: <http://jazzdiver.com/photoshop/cs2_layers.htm> (about 550KB)

Daryl
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YrbkMgr
May 12, 2005
Daryl,

I had seen the change of how layers are linked, but not quite as in depth as what you’ve done. You’re one of those rare individuals who pays exceptional attention to detail. The flash movie you made is evidence of that.

My big fear is the change from Layer Sets to Layer Groups (not related to nesting). As long as my old files with layer sets open up fine in CS, and as long as an image with Layer Groups will open in previous versions (7), then I won’t be screwed.
TM
Trevor_Morris
May 12, 2005
Tony,

Once you get to the new multi-layer selection, you’ll never be able to use an old version again! It’s intuitive and awesome–and about time! From where I sit, there’s also no compromise: Ctrl+click still works, linking is still possible (but for the large part is unnecessary now), etc.
DP
Daryl_Pritchard
May 12, 2005
DUH! ~smacking my head~ I guess I’ve not done much editing lately where I’ve needed to move mutiple layers nor have I really even played around enough with PS CS2 to discover it, but I simply hadn’t thought to try moving a multiple selection of layers. Indeed, such operations as this would reduce the need for layer linking. So, it is beginning to sink in more why the link icons aren’t needed as much. I miss being able to click the icons to add/remove layers from the selection, but at least the Ctrl/Shift convention is a common standard.
Y
YrbkMgr
May 12, 2005
Trevor,

No, that I get. Point is, I have hundreds of thousands of images that have layer sets in them. They need to be able to be opened in CS2.

Conversely, when I create a layer group in CS2 (without nesting), I need it to be able to be opened in PS7.

It’s a matter of compatability, not functionality.
TM
Trevor_Morris
May 13, 2005
FYI, I just tried a 3x nested group in CS2, which opened in CS1 as a 3x nested set (with all sets named identically). I don’t have v7 here at work, but can try that at home as well if you like. (Although, IIRC, Chris or Thomas already confirmed that behaviour for you.)
Y
YrbkMgr
May 13, 2005
Well, the truth is, I don’t know why I have such a hard time explaining this.

I have had to write several posts just to clarify that I’m NOT talking about nested layers.

Nested layers are a different animal altogether – I don’t expect any compatability with photoshop 7 if the CS/CS2 file has nested layers. Any compatability is gravy.

With the introduction of CS, we see a naming convention change in how Photoshop refers to Layer Sets. They have changed the name to Layer Groups. What I am trying to clarify is that the name change of Sets to Groups with layers will not have an adverse effect in terms of backward compatability.

If I create a file with a simple layer group in CS2, will that group open as a set in PS7? Will it be rasterized or will it be in tact?

I think it was Mark who indicated that there shouldn’t be a problem, but since, once again, I’ve had trouble making myself clear, so I am still concerned about it. Every time I’ve asked this question, the answer comes back related to nested layers. And that’s not what I’m talking about.

I don’t know why I’m having a hard time, maybe because it’s so obvious and I’m dense – but the question is really simple as I see it. Will files with simple (non-nested) layer groups from CS2 open in PS 7 with the layer set in tact?
D
deebs
May 13, 2005
Could someone possibly pop YrbkMgr a CS2 image (PSD, TIFF PSB all 3 or a combination of any 2?) containing layer groups of varying complexity?

That way he may be best able to address the issue in a practical, tactile and pragmatic way.

FWIW: my spin is that it is a nomenclature switch as groups and sets are mathematical objects with well defined parameters. If sets and groups now have computational models it seems logical to use a naming form the resides easily with present usage
Y
YrbkMgr
May 13, 2005
Nice idea deebs. That would answer the question in short order.

Also, I agree that mathematically, it shouldn’t make a difference, but <shrug> I want to be sure since it will impact my workflow and who can receive my images.
D
deebs
May 13, 2005
Of course – absolutely. Two key words or even 3? Work Flow Workflow

It’s your business – if no one responds I’ll pop a PSD to you based on CS2 Tryout. It won’t be very big though, unless I use and abuse one of the sample images that came with CS2 install
HL
hanford_lemoore
May 13, 2005
YrbkMgr —

I am 99% sure it was just a name change and nothing else. They changed the name of Groups in CS to Clipping Masks …. in CS2 they changed the name of Sets to Groups. But the functionallity is there there. All it is is a namechange.

I have been working with documents that use groups (sets) and clipping masks (groups) between CS and CS2 with no problem.

(also, it looks like they knew before CS shipped that Sets was going to get Renamed to Groups in the next version. interesting….)
DG
Dana_Gartenlaub
May 14, 2005
who’s on first?…..
DM
dave_milbut
May 14, 2005
who’s on first?…..

yes, that’s right.
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YrbkMgr
May 14, 2005
I appreciate the feedback. I still like Deebs suggestion: why not someone put up a PSD with three layers in a group and let’s see.
HL
hanford_lemoore
May 14, 2005
Created in CS2:

<http://www.hanfordlemoore.com/photoshop/cs2.psd>

(two layers in a group, two not)
TM
Trevor_Morris
May 14, 2005
Tony,

I understood you perfectly. I said:

"I don’t have v7 here at work, but can try that at home as well if you like."

I’m at work again, but here is are two PSDs for you to download:

Nested.psd
<http://user.fundy.net/morris/downloads/Nested.psd>

NotNested.psd
<http://user.fundy.net/morris/downloads/NotNested.psd>
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YrbkMgr
May 14, 2005
Hanford,

Thanks. Exactly what I expected. Just a name change, all groups/sets remained in tact.

Trevor,

It was hard to discern from your images – was there image data present or were they blank layers?

By the way, thanks guys.
GW
Gerry_Wallace
May 15, 2005
I have been pulling my hair out for I have used the control click to get a selection for years. Then in CS2, nothin’. That is until I read this forum. Thanks. Back to the glory days.

Couldn’t one of those people on the splash screen have written a "how-to" memo on the changes from CS and CS2. I have been spending hours on the changes from what used to be, to what they are now. Some of the changes are great and an easier shortcut. Put the info in a PDF. How much would that cost? Hell, I’ll pay the person to do it! It has cost me in time AND money already.

All I ask for is a simple manual with the changes made from CS or previous versions to CS2.

Don’t get me started on the Bridge. Great idea, just doesn’t work!
DM
dave_milbut
May 15, 2005
i’d like to see them document all the little interface tweaks too…
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nospam
May 15, 2005
On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:44:27 -0700, wrote:

who’s on first?…..

yes, that’s right.

I don’t give a damn!
Y
YrbkMgr
May 15, 2005
Well, now that Bridge was mentioned, can you run batch actions on images selected in Bridge as you could with images in File Browser? That is, is Bridge (or some similar terminology) available as a source for the batch dialog?
IL
Ian_Lyons
May 15, 2005
With the exception of Batch Rename you’ll find that trying to run a Batch from within Bridge starts Photoshop. Remember Bridge lives outside Photoshop and has no way of applying Photoshop specific commands as a Batch.
TM
Trevor_Morris
May 15, 2005
Tony,

Correct, the documents contained no image data. Sorry, should have stated that.
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YrbkMgr
May 15, 2005
Thanks Trevor. Having image data would have been hepful with the nested sets because PS7 returned dialogs and it would have been interesting to see what happens to the data when opened with the various choices presented by PS7. But I thank you for the effort extended already.

Ian,

Just to be clear then, CS2’s batch dialog does NOT provide the option to run an action against selections in Bridge – is that right?

As you know, with file browser integrated into v7, you can pick several sources in the batch dialog: Folder, Opened Files, Import, and Browser. Based on your reply, I take it that you can no longer run a batch on a selection of images from bridge?

I want to distinguish between the batch operations that one can run in File Browser, such as batch rename, which doesn’t allow you to call actions – are you saying that one could call actions, to run in batch, from within bridge (which would call PSCS2)?
IL
Ian_Lyons
May 15, 2005
Tony,

I misunderstood your original question. I thought you meant running a Batch WITHIN Bridge but using Photoshop Actions. However rereading it alongside your most recent post I now see what you’re after.

Photoshop Batch operations can use selections within Bridge. I’ve attached a screenshot that shows the CS2 Batch dialog. I’ve also highlighted the location where you choose Bridge as a source.
IL
Ian_Lyons
May 15, 2005
Tony,

This attachment shows the way the Photoshop Batch dialog opens if images were selected in Bridge and the Batch called from there.
Y
YrbkMgr
May 15, 2005
Outstanding! Thank you Ian. That’s exactly how I had hoped it would be.

As you probably know, I use a lot of batch operations and did not upgrade to CS. I am going to upgrade to CS2, and since this is my busiest time of year, I’m trying to anticipate as many issues as may be relevant. The information you’ve provided certainly helps.

Uhm… last question, which is off topic, but related to CS2. Now that Layer Sets have been renamed to Layer Groups, does CS2 still use the Group Layers function under the layers menu? In PS7, grouping under the layers menu had a different function than putting them in sets. I’m simply wondering how a name change from "sets" to "groups" might affect either terminology or functionality of Grouping Layers as it existed under PS7.
IL
Ian_Lyons
May 15, 2005
Tony,

You can Group Layers and subsequently Ungroup via the Layers menu, a screenshot is attached. Groups and Sets are effectively the same thing. It’s been a VERY long time since I used 7 so I can’t recall the exact grouping behavior.

BTW: You can also group into a Smart Object, but that’s for another day 😉
Y
YrbkMgr
May 16, 2005
Thanks Ian, but I’m referring to a different feature. In Photoshop 7 and previous versions, there was the ability to create a clipping group from the Layers menu. That menu item is shown here <http://img26.echo.cx/img26/4840/groupprev2sb.jpg>.

It is named "Group with Previous". This could be achieved through the Layers menu, or by holding down the Alt key and clicking between two layers.

My question was, essentially, now that Layer Sets are called Layer Groups, grouping layers and creating clipping groups can become a bit confusing. I suspect that they have changed the menu item from "Group with Previous" to something else… or have they? Is there still the ability to create a clipping group?

Thanks for all of the input so far.
IL
Ian_Lyons
May 16, 2005
Tony,

If memory serves me right Clipping Groups became Clipping Masks in CS. The PS7 Layer menu item Group with Previous became Create Clipping Mask in CS. The same keyboard shortcuts were used as was the same method of creating the group/mask on the Layers Palette. CS2 hasn’t changed from CS.
Y
YrbkMgr
May 16, 2005
Outstanding. Thank you Ian, you’ve been a big help.
PC
Pierre_Courtejoie
May 16, 2005
Ian, a small correction: the shortcut has changed in CS2: create clipping mask is now CTRL+Alt+G, while group layers is now CTRL+G
(remove from group is CTRL+Shift+G)

Tony, see: <http://user.fundy.net/morris/downloads/PSCS2_Shortcuts.pdf> you’ll be able to compare with your current one to prepare for the changes.

Of course, you can change the shortcuts, so that CTRL+G creates clipping mask as before, CTRL+Shift+G groups (adds image in a group) and CTRL+ALT+G removes from the group. (IMHO, this would more closely follow Adobe’s own conventions)
TM
Trevor_Morris
May 16, 2005
Pierre,

"…CTRL+ALT+G removes from the group. (IMHO, this would more closely follow Adobe’s own conventions)"

Funny, I suggested the same thing 🙂



Tony,

I don’t know if you still need these, but I’ve updated the following documents to include image data.

Nested.psd
<http://user.fundy.net/morris/downloads/Nested.psd>

Nested.png – the layers palette screencapped from CS2
<http://user.fundy.net/morris/downloads/Nested.png>

NotNested.psd
<http://user.fundy.net/morris/downloads/NotNested.psd>

NotNested.png – the layers palette screencapped from CS2 <http://user.fundy.net/morris/downloads/NotNested.png>
Y
YrbkMgr
May 16, 2005
Trevor,

Excellent. When opening nested layer groups, PS7 gives the option to composite the data, or, break everything into individual layers without groups. It indicates that there’s corruption, but opens them fine. Even the group names become individual layers. This is good news, as while structure isn’t maintained (nor would I expect it to be), the data elements are optionally preserved, if you don’t composite the data upon opening.

Thanks a heap for those samples!

Peace,
Tony
TM
Trevor_Morris
May 16, 2005
Whew! Like pulling hens’ teeth, but you finally have your answer! 😉

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