CS2 printing to Epson 2200 is out of kilter

JL
Posted By
Judith_Lipmanson
May 4, 2005
Views
792
Replies
22
Status
Closed
After several years of trouble-free printing to my 2200, all printed images have a blue-green cast. I calibrate my monitor with a Spyder 2, use the 2200 Epson profiles, work in ProPhoto color space, and am doing nothing different than I did with CS — but obviously I should change something.

I’ve checked all my color settings and they are the same as they were in CS. I’ve looked at the Proof for the epson profile I was using, and got the same results when I checked the "Use RGB numbers" box. This simulated exactly what I’m seeing on printing. What does this mean? Do I have something turned on in my printing settings that does this same thing? The print manager is set to the Epson Profile, such as Premium Lustre, I’ve checked ICM and NO Color Adjustment, just as I did with CS.

Am stumped at this point. Oh Yes, am on Win XP Pro SP2, and using the Epson 5.5 drivers.

Help anyone?

Judith
KH
Kevin_Hooper
May 4, 2005
Judith,
Have you used the Epson print utility to check that all colors are printing correctly? Simplest answer I’ve found, when nothing else has changed.

Kevin
JL
Judith_Lipmanson
May 4, 2005
Kevin:

First thing I did was a nozzle test, and it came out perfect.

I keep thinking that I have something turned on that I shouldn’t have, even though my settings are the same as in CS. I base this on the fact that Proofing with "Use RGB numbers" checked gives the same color cast. I have not been able to find out yet what RGB numbers means in terms of printing.

Judith
SG
Stephen_Gingold
May 4, 2005
Judith
I don’t know if there will be an answer for you here, but Andrew Rodney has posted an article at PhotoshopNews from his book on CS2’s print with preview settings that might be helpful
< http://photoshopnews.com/2005/05/04/print-with-preview-photo shop-cs2/>
JL
Judith_Lipmanson
May 4, 2005
Thanks Stephen. Am going now to check it out.

Judith
LT
Larry_Tiefenbrunn
May 5, 2005
Judith, I’m having the exact same problem with my Epson 2200 using EpsonLuster paper with photo-black ink. Printed the same pic in 7.0 and CS2 with the same settings. The CS2 print is more blue-green with less saturation. I think they changed the Adobe print driver (without telling us) to give less magenta but I’m not sure. I’ll try the NAPP web site and perhaps call Adobe. Please let me know if you find out anything 1st.
I’ll check this forum daily.
Thanks,
Larry Tiefenbrunn
SG
Stephen_Gingold
May 5, 2005
Larry
In the print with preview, are you letting the printer control color or Photoshop? There are some differences in the choices with CS2. I applied the settings as Andrew Rodney suggested in the article and then printed a shot with lots of magentas and blues( a sunrise shot). The printer is the 2200 and the paper is Premium Luster. I couldn’t tell the difference at all between that print and one printed through CS.
KD
Kirk_Dickinson
May 5, 2005
I have Win-XP with 2200 also, using Epson Luster – PS-CS2 is killing my colors.

I have printed the same digital print with both programs with all the settings the same and get totally different results. The colors that I am getting look like when I forget and apply a color profile in both PS and the Print driver. But I am not doing that.

I posted a some photos for comparison on this page:
<http://www.texaslonghorn.com/ps9.htm>

I will be unable to use PS-CS2 unless I can resolve this color issue.

Kirk
LT
Larry_Tiefenbrunn
May 5, 2005
Stephen,
Photoshop is controlling CM. Have you tried side by side comparison with 7.0 or earlier? Larry
SG
Stephen_Gingold
May 5, 2005
Larry
No, sorry, I haven’t used 7.0 in quite a while. My upgrade was from CS1. The only other suggestion I can make would be to check your preferences. They are not carried over from the earlier version when upgrading. If that is not any help then I can’t offer much else. Maybe someone more color management savvy will be of more help. I’m sure it must be some setting somewhere. I’d have to believe the beta testers made prints and would have discovered such a problem.
Regards,
Stephen
KR
Ken Rose
May 5, 2005
Take a look under edit/color settings for the type of converrsion options you are using.
I’m using perceptual and it seems to print ok on my Epson 1280.

On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:15:08 -0700,
wrote:

Larry
No, sorry, I haven’t used 7.0 in quite a while. My upgrade was from CS1. The only other suggestion I can make would be to check your preferences. They are not carried over from the earlier version when upgrading. If that is not any help then I can’t offer much else. Maybe someone more color management savvy will be of more help. I’m sure it must be some setting somewhere. I’d have to believe the beta testers made prints and would have discovered such a problem.
Regards,
Stephen
KD
Kirk_Dickinson
May 6, 2005
There is something goofy in Photoshop CS2. When I let "Printer Determine Colors" and set the ICC Profile in the print driver, both 8 and 9 print duplicate prints. When I let PS control the color, 8 works fine, 9 messes up. I have looked and all the color settings are identical as far as I can tell.

There is no problem using the Printer for my Profiles most of the time, however, I have some profiles for different paper and the printer driver will only use the Epson profiles.

Would like to get an answer to this.

Did you look at my samples?

Kirk
SG
Stephen_Gingold
May 6, 2005
"Did you look at my samples?"

Kirk
I’m not sure if you meant this for me. Yes I did look at your samples and can see the difference. I’m not an expert so I can’t say definitively what to do. I never let the printer control color. I always let PS control as much as possible. One difference in our workflow is that I use AdobeRGB as my gamut from capture to print.
As I mentioned above if there was a bug I’m sure it would have been noticed by the beta testers. I’m surprised no one who is more expert with this topic hasn’t jumped in here, but there has to be some setting somewhere that needs to be adjusted I’m sure.
Are you sure there isn’t a gap somewhere in your color management? I’m sorry I can’t be of more help, guess I was just lucky and set everything up right. My prints are coming out just fine.
Regards,
Stephen
I just looked over at the Color Mangement forum and saw the same issue being discussed. No answer there but apparently others are having the same problem. Maybe an answer will show up there.
LT
Larry_Tiefenbrunn
May 6, 2005
Dear Judith & Stephen,
I fixed it with the help of Peter Bauer from the NAPP help desk: In 7.0 Color settings I used to use Adobe RGB 1998 for the RGB working space and "use embedded profiles" and that worked fine. In CS2 I had to change these to my monitor calibration ( set by Pantone Spyder ) and the color management policy for RGB to "Convert to embedde profiles". It worked like a charm! The output now matches the screen perfectly and matches my 7.0 output. Now I think I can lay 7.0 to rest… permanently… hopefully.
Thanks,
Larry
SG
Stephen_Gingold
May 6, 2005
That’s great, Larry. Glad you found a solution.
Regards,
Stephen
KD
Kirk_Dickinson
May 6, 2005
I tried Larrys solution. Doesn’t make any difference for me.

When I print using the Epson printer profile assigned by Photoshop, it looks overly saturated like when a profile is applied twice.

When I use the same printer profile and apply it in the Epson Driver, the results are good.

TGIF,

Kirk
LT
Larry_Tiefenbrunn
May 6, 2005
Try one more thing. Make sure you don’t have Adobe Gamma in the startup group if you’re using another monitor calibrator.
Larry
KD
Kirk_Dickinson
May 7, 2005
Larry,

Two things, Adobe Gamma was in the startup. PS9 must have put it back, I don’t use it. I have a Spectraview color calibrator, so haven’t used Adobe Gamma.

I reread your paragraph again. What you said worked in 7 was what I did. That was how things were working well in 8. For some reason, I didn’t read your message correctly.

In CS9 I changed the working space to my Spectraview RGB profile with conversion on. I set the printer profile to the Epson profile in CS8 and turned it off in the print driver. It printed like it should. Success!!

I have never used my monitor profile for a working profile, maybe I should. I haven’t ever totally gotten my mind wrapped around how all this calibration works, even though I have all the stuff to do it.

To test, I saved the photo with the new profile and opened it in CS8. I printed the same way and the result was identical photos.

I guess that is the solution.

It confuses me though because I don’t understand what the monitor profile has to do with printing a photo that hasn’t had any color correction to it. It seems to me if I open a photo that has an embedded camera profile and print it straight out to the printer with no changes, using the printer profile, that it should work fine. Why does it need to be converted to my monitor’s profile?

Maybe I need to look for a book called "Color Profiling for Dumb A&&es".

Thanks for the help and patience.

Kirk
WJ
William_Janes
May 7, 2005
I’m using pretty much the same software and hardware setup as Judith–WinXP Pro, PS CS2, Epson 5.50 drivers, and Epson 2200.Like Judith I’ve checked ICM and NO Color Adjustment. In the final print dialog I let Photoshop handle the color adjustments and everything is working properly for me. I don’t know what I’m doing right.

Bill Janes
JJ
Joe_Joe_Smith
May 7, 2005
I had a very similar problem with my 9600. I spent endless hours (on the phone with the Epson tech & sales people and off the phone in the studio) and gallons of ink and reams of paper trying to figure this bugger out.

I finally narrowed the issue down to the printer profile, by trial and error testing.

I was using canned profiles at the beginning. The ‘experts’ said these were adequate. They weren’t. Even the calibrated profiles (my own and Cathy’s) exhibited the same color cast, to one degree or another.

The ‘experts’ said this wasn’t possible. "In a profiled workflow this can’t happen". They were wrong.

I fixed it with DoctorPro, a PS action from Digital Light and Color.

I have never been more pleased. I can now hold up a print to the monitor – and they MATCH!!! 🙂 It’s really quite nice.

Even the ‘experts’ are amazed 😉 LOL.
GA
George_August
May 14, 2005
Most of my volume work has gone to an outside lab, but I use the 2200 for small runs. My monitor is profiled with E-Z color and I get a perfect match with the outside prints. But for my own printing I have been working with Ilford Pearl paper, with the printer also profiled with E-Z color. But the prints wouldn’t match in color and density. I went on Ilford’s website and downloaded their profile and procedure for the 2200 and it works perfectly with no tweaking necessary. If you haven’t tried the Ilford line get a package and try it. It’s great paper. I haven’t figured out why my E=Z profiling didn’t work. Maybe someone out there can explain. I had to darken the screen image quite a bit and add a little contrast to get a good print beforehand.
KD
Kirk_Dickinson
May 15, 2005
In CS9 I changed the working space to my Spectraview RGB profile with conversion on. I set the printer profile to the Epson profile in CS8 and turned it off in the print driver. It printed like it should. Success!!

I am still having problems wrapping my mind around why this works.

I have a color corrected monitor and the color profile is applied to the monitor driver at the OS level. Why should I have to also change my working space ICC profile to that? PS8, I just used AdobeRGB and it worked fine, or the sRGB mode that the Canon Rebel uses. The colors are correct on the monitor because they are profiled at the OS level.

In PS9, when I change the working profile of a document from AdobeRGB to SpectraViewRGB, there is no change to the onscreen colors, but the output changes drastically.

I just don’t get it. If I have a working space of Adobe RGB and create a brand new document and fill it with Blue 255. I see a true blue on the monitor. Looks good, I print using the Epson Premium Luster Printer profile and the results are not even close to what I seen on the screen. If I change the working space to SpectraViewRGB, and print using the same printer profile, the results are a perfect match.

Why does the printer care what the monitor profile is?

Why did this change from PS8 to PS9?

If I send this file to a printer, why would they care about what my monitor profile is? Shouldn’t it go to the printer with a standard embeded profile like Adobe RGB or sRGB?

Thanks,

Kirk
MD
Michael_D_Sullivan
May 15, 2005
The printer doesn’t care what the monitor profile is. It cares what profile is embedded in the document sent to the print driver; i.e., the working color space profile. If you take an image in the AdobeRGB color space and change its profile without changing the pixel values (i.e., attach the XYZ profile to it instead of converting it to the XYZ profile, you still have pixels on screen that were set in the AdobeRGB color space, so you won’t see any change on screen. When you send it to the printer, you are sending AdobeRGB pixels with an XYZ profile, so the printer driver interprets those pixels as though they were created using the XYZ profile, and the resulting print is garbage.

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