I’ve started to use Photoshop CS instead of version 7.0.1 and have discovered that a base file of say 60MB that subsequently has many layers added (sometimes I use over 200 layers), increased in size, as indicated by the "document size" box at the bottom of the file window, to 1.2 GB in CS. The same file with the same layers opened in 7 indicated about 350MB! In CS any command took ages, and the screen redraw was painfully slow, where as in 7 it was acceptably snappy with no long waits for things to happen. The difference is very marked. I’ve gone back to using 7 for my work flow as the decrease in productivity is substantial. The apparent 3 times file increase is unbelievable and unacceptable. There doesn’t seem to be anything in the preference that is different in my settings for CS and 7. I’m running a Quicksilver dual 1GHz, 1.5 GB RAM, OS10.3.3. Until this can be fixed I would definutely not recommend that anyone using large multi layerd files go to Photoshop CS. Has anyone found a fix for this?
I checked all the treads for a similar issue and couldn’t find one other than the one that mentioned the slow redraw. I’d appreciate it if you would tell me which one covers this issue. Meanwhile I’ve done some checking with a particular miltilayered file and got these results-
In CS- Time to open- 242 seconds Image size- 36.5M/1.43G Scratch size- 4.24G/1.26G Efficiency- 20% Time to reduce file size from 300 to 150 pixels/inch- 107 seconds
In 7- Time to open- 33 seconds Image size- 36.5M/454.9M Scratch size- 953.4M/1.27G Efficiency- 70% Time to reduce file size from 300 to 150 pixels/inch- 53 seconds
Now what numbers am I reading incorrectly? Which program am I going to use, the fast one or the slow one? Now if there is a way to make CS as fast as 7 PLEASE tell me!.
Read all the threads that refer to large file sizes, too much memory usage, etc. Read the theads about AutoFX edges and the excessive number of files it installs.
CS is as fast as 7, except for launch time (and that’s only really bad if you have AutoFX PhotoGraphicEdges installed) and some file IO (that’s maybe 10% slower because the new file APIs in the OS are slower).
If you’re seeing it take that long to open an image, then the image either contains lots of text layers that need to be updated — or you have something seriously wrong with your machine.
The Image size is right — PS CS just uses larger virtual memory tiles if you have lots of RAM, this speeds things up considerably (especially for MP machines).
The scratch size is right, but doesn’t mean what you think (in fact, you can probably ignore it). But from the looks of it, you might have a lot of presets loaded (patterns, brushes, styles, etc.) and eating up some additional scratch space.
And it sounds like your memory preferences might be set differently as well.
I don’t have AutoFX edges on my system- never heard of it, and it mustn’t be part of another application as it didn’t come up in a search.
The file I used had NO text layers.
My system appears to be running perfectly in every way- just very slow in CS compared to 7.
Memory preference both set at 100%
Don’t know what is a file "IO" or "APIs"
Read lots of threads, and now I know I’m not alone- and there are serious issues that Adobe needs to resolve. As a new user here it took me a while to find the search function! How about an obvious search box like Google for dumbos like me? As for my work flow, I’ll be running version 7 until the problems with CS are sorted. There are a lot of frustrated power users out there with awsome machines and a lot of frustration. These are Adobe’s loyal customers and need to be taken seriously and not patronised. The patronising way that the Italian customer, who was pointing out exactly what I was saying, was appalling.
Time to get back to work and make up for some lost time!
That can be a serious problem. Since Photoshop can use up to 2GB of RAM, if you set it to 100% and you have only 1.5GB of RAM, Photoshop can literally starve your system. OS X then doesn’t have enough RAM to run in.
Try setting it back to 65% or so and see if that helps with speed and screen redraw.
No question about that. If the User Guide was written more clearly and more soundly structured, perhaps there would be a lot less misunderstandings, I think. Apple’s printed documentation leaves even more to be desired.
[EDIT: I realize the User Guide may not be in your bailiwick, at least not 100%.]
"available" means available to the application – each application can get up to 2 Gig of RAM (if 2 Gig or more is installed).
Otherwise it’s installed RAM minus what the OS is using, minus the binary size in memory and a few other things.
So, with 4 Gig installed, you probably have only 1.7 Gig available to Photoshop (2 Gig, minus binary, etc.). That’s why we show the actual amount in the dialog.
Thanks, Chris. That’s what I thought my understanding was and what I had written (or intended to write).
Therefore, with my new Dual 1,25MHs G4 maxed out at 2GB (if that is indeed the maximum RAM it can take, and I think it is because Apple offered me no higher RAM options) it would be wise to allocate 65% to 70%, leaving some 500MB for the system. Is that assumption correct? Or should I try to think it through again tomorrow after I have had some sleep?
Could you please explain the difference in the way the file sizes are showing in the different versions? No one has actually done that. The fact is the performance of CS is good with smaller files, but with the larger multilayer files it behaves like it really is trying to handle the "blown out" file, and will slow to the same degree the version 7 would if it was showing such a large file. but as it is in 7 it’s only apparently dealing with a much smalller file(the same file!).
Why would allocating 100% memory work in 7 but not CS?
And Chris, if many customers are having the same problem, Adobe DOES have one too.
Why would allocating 100% memory work in 7 but not CS?
It works the same way in 7. If you allocate all your memory to PS the system must constantly write to SWAP file. is your scratch on the same disk as your system as well??
Have you tried decreasing allocated RAM??
you come here asking for help when you are given the answer you don’t listen.
Ramon, read what Chris just wrote. The ram allocation percentage is the percentage of ram available AFTER the System and a few small other things. That sets aside whatever the System is using and does not take it into account. Given that, I’m still not sure why, if you’re only running one application – PS – why you couldn’t run the percentage up higher, effectively emulating what most of us have done forever in OS9. Maybe Chris could comment on that.
I, too, find Photohsop CS much slower on large, multilayered files. I find the responsiveness of the brushes particularly slow, and since I’m an illustrator, and often lay down brush strokes very rapidly, the brush delay is a particularly bad problem. I have gone back to PS 7. There are some things I so much like in PS CS, but the slowness on my mcahine makes PS 7 the only solution for my daily work. Dual G4, 1.25 Ghz, 2 GB RAM, OS 10.2.6. Memory at 65%. Scratch disks on different partitions, not start-up (40 GB, 30 GB, 30 GB empty partitions for scratch). 2 monitors, (Artisan), NVdida GeForce 4 Titanium.
Michael – you aren’t looking at file sizes in any of those status readouts. You’re looking at memory and scratch disk usage – which has changed because CS allows for larger VM tiles (which improves performance).
Yes, it has been explained at least 6 times in different topics in these forums.
If Ferrari has many customers who don’t understand the "brake pedal on the left" in their manual transmission cars – that does not indicate a problem with the cars. (a repairman once told me about a customer who returned such a car because it made horrible noises when shifting and "the brake pedal on the left doesn’t work").
Peter – because we didn’t allow quite enough slop for OS overhead, and because as you get close to 2 Gigs the OS can’t really make all 2 Gigs available (address space fragmentation, etc.). Modern OSes don’t make this easy.
to see how much memory is being used. On my 2GB Dual 1.25 G4 the optimum setting is no higher than 80%. Going below 70% shows that lots of free ram simply goes to waste.
I find the responsiveness of the brushes particularly slow, and since I’m an illustrator, and often lay down brush strokes very rapidly, the brush delay is a particularly bad problem.
Zina, I have had several of our designers report the same brush response slowness, but it hasn’t been consistent. I finally was able to see it as it occurred yesterday. It was a multi-layered file with many layer masks and also one complex vector mask on the top layer. We found that the brush response improved 100% if we rasterized the vector mask (even though we were painting on a totally different layer). Later, in playing with this file, I found that just turning off the visibility of the layer with the vector mask gave the same improvement. As long as the vector mask is not displayed or not present, the brush keeps up with the Wacom or mouse.
I don’t have a clue why a vector mask would bring down the brush performance, but it does quite clearly on this particular file. * Rick
I have read what Chris wrote. As a matter of fact I always read everything that Chris writes very carefully and repeatedly.
Whether others read what mere mortals like myself equally carefully is a different question.
The question remains a little unclear as to what the percentage of available memory means in OS X. Obviously the System has to grab RAM first, otherwise you couldn’t boot up or launch Photoshop in the first place. That part is clear. What is still not clear is whether the OS needs additional RAM at ant time after Photoshop is launched and has taken up its assigned percentage of RAM. If that is (or were) the case, then there would be a loss of speed with a high memory allocation to Phsh due to the System having to use the swap file more extensively because it has been starved by Photoshop.
That’s where the confusion is, at least as far as I’m concerned.
It means the memory available to the application (which means it must be less than 2 Gig). The memory taken up by the application itself is not available, and the memory used by the OS is not available.
The meaning doesn’t change with the OS, or version of the OS.
Yes, the OS can grab a little more after launch – which is why we add some fudge factors to the available memory calculation.
Also, on Windows, some drivers allocate memory incorrectly and try to take it from the application – which usually causes problems.
Thanks for your info, Rick; I very much appreciate your taking the time to post it. Unfortunately, I don’t use vector masks at all in Photoshop, so that wouldn’t account for my problem.
On my 2GB Dual 1.25 G4 the optimum setting is no higher than 80%. Going below 70% shows that lots of free ram simply goes to waste.
That’s my configuration exactly.
What I was trying to express before is that, if I (or anyone with no more than 2GB of RAM) were to allocate the full 100% to Photoshop, you could run into a situation where Photoshop might use as much RAM as its appx. 1.9 (or 1.7) GB allows, after the System took whatever it needed before you launched Photoshop, and therefore Photoshop would starve the OS of any additional RAM the OS may decide it needs afterwards.
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Peter,
… why you couldn’t run the percentage up higher, effectively emulating what most of us have done forever in OS9. Maybe Chris could comment on that.
The same situation would prevail in OS 9.x, except you’d notice the effects a lot sooner (like not being able to launch the application at all). In my above example, imagine allocating 1.9GB to Photoshop in OS 9.x when the installed RAM is only 2GB.
Anyway, Chris has commented on that now.
================
Chris,
because we didn’t allow quite enough slop for OS overhead, and because as you get close to 2 Gigs the OS can’t really make all 2 Gigs available (address space fragmentation, etc.). Modern Oases don’t make this easy.
Thank you, that’s the confirmation I needed. I have no more doubts now.
Thanks everyone for the feedback and information. Chris, I can see that the "file size" information that differs in CS and 7 is because of the way that CS allows for larger VM tiles, and my observation of the difference is apparently not connected to the much slower performance that I’ve experienced in CS compared to 7, but due to other factors. What you are saying is the the change should increase performance, unfortunately not my experience.
I will try some of the suggestions mentioned in the various posts to see if CS requires different setting to what I’ve been using successfully in 7, in order to perform satisfactorily.
i’ll post my results.
For the record-
I use 4 scratch discs. An additional internal 80GB as 1 (37 free at present), a 120 firewire as 2, an 80 firewire as 3 and the HD (80 ) as 4. I have no presets.
"What I was trying to express before is that, if I (or anyone with no more than 2GB of RAM) were to allocate the full 100% to Photoshop, you could run into a situation where Photoshop might use as much RAM as its appx. 1.9 (or 1.7) GB allows, after the System took whatever it needed before you launched Photoshop, and therefore Photoshop would starve the OS of any additional RAM the OS may decide it needs afterward"
Ramon,
I think you’re still not understanding what Chris said. If you’ve got 2 gigs of ram and the system takes up 300 megs, then you would have 1.7 gigs of available ram. If you then allocated 90 percent to PS, that would leave PS using approx. 1.5 gigs (1.7 X .9). If you set the allocation to 100 percent, then PS will use almost all of what’s left after the system, which is 1.7, not 2 gigs. It won’t, and can’t use ram that the system is already using, unless you do use 100 percent and there is sufficient system expansion to cause a conflict. The (approx) 1.7 gigs that Chris referred to being possibly available is only available IF you’ve got more than 2 gigs of ram and have at least 2 gigs left when you’re up an running.
I do understand (very well) what Chris said. It is you who is failing to understand what I type. The lucid and concise confirmation Chris gave me has been my understanding all along.
I never said that Photoshop or any other application will use RAM that the System is already using or which is otherwise not available. Give me some credit; I’m not that stupid or ignorant, and I don’t do drugs. Never have.
Read once again this paragraph from my post # 22, which you even quote in your own post:
What I was trying to express before is that, if I (or anyone with no more than 2GB of RAM) were to allocate the full 100% to Photoshop, you could run into a situation where Photoshop might use as much RAM as its appx. 1.9 (or 1.7) GB allows, after the System took whatever it needed before you launched Photoshop, and therefore Photoshop would starve the OS of any additional RAM the OS may decide it needs afterwards. [Emphasis added.]
In your example, with only 2GB of RAM installed, the System would be using 300GB of RAM and Photoshop would launch and take over up to1.7GB (your figures this time, not mine). Now, if the System should need additional memory (over and beyond the 300MB it claimed at the beginning) at any time after Photoshop launched, then the System would be starved of additional memory and the slowdown would inevitably occur.
Chris confirmed that such a scenario is indeed possible (read his post # 20)
Yes, the OS can grab a little more after launch
That is all I’ve been saying or trying to say.
That was my understanding right from the beginning, and it was only your post # 14 that confused me and made me doubt my understanding of things.
I don’t mind if you disagree with me, and I wouldn’t mind disagreeing with you either, though we don’t appear to be in disagreement at all. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear to you. But please don’t keep insisting I don’t understand what Chris or anyone else (except for you of course) is saying. That is getting a little old now.
For the record- I use 4 scratch discs. An additional internal 80GB as 1 (37 free at present), a 120 firewire as 2, an 80 firewire as 3 and the HD (80 ) as 4. I have no presets.
Michael,
In addition to CS’s memory allocation, you may want to compare your installs of CS and Photoshop v7 when comparing speed and efficiency. Do you have both programs installed on the same drive as the OS? For example, having CS on the OSX system drive and v7 on internal drive no.2 would make v7 faster (all other settings being equal). Also, firewire drives aren’t the best choice for scratch disks. That may not effect your current comparisons, but it is food for thought when planning drive purchases in the future.
Both CS and 7 are installed on the OSX drive, and the primary scratch drive is the additional internal drive. Yes I know that Firewire drives are not optimal as a scratch disk, but its always a problem juggling free disc space. I’ve just bought a extra external firewire 800 drive(250GB), and when I add a firewire 800 PCI card it should be a bit of an improvement. Whatever, the settings are the same for 7 and CS.
I’ve tried juggling the memory settings in both to the settings suggested in this thread, with no perceptable difference in performance.
CS is still so much slower with the big files than 7 that I simply can’t work with them. With smaller files with only a few layers, the CS performance is very snappy, and I love the additional and refined features, especially the Browser- it’s almost as good a GraphicConverter 5 now! So until there is a ‘fix’ for my problem, I’ll be happily singing along in 7!
I wonder if the grahic card is an factor- some cards may work well with CS and not others. Mine is the GeForce4 MX. From the boffins point of view, what is the ideal grahpics card for CS, in a G4 MP 1GHZ machine like mine, and in a G5 MP 2GHZ (on my I wish shopping list)? It would seem that for RAM, there is no point in getting over say 2.5 GB if Photoshop is the primary application, as it can’t use more than 2 anyway. What a pity, as the G5 can take 8!
Since you have another internal drive to boot from, try doing a clean install of the most up-to-date OSX copy you have onto THAT drive. Don’t install any 3rd party hacks or extra fonts. Then boot from that new install, leaving both Photoshop apps on the drive they’re on today. This will help you determine if it’s a problem with your current OSX install.
If people have to return to ver 7 to get their work done, then there is clearly a problem that Adobe needs to address by explaining exactly how to install CS and allocate memory. If CS is faster on small files than 7 and grossly slower on large files, then there is a serious misunderstanding somewhere. I don’t have CS and may never have it, but I’m really tired of this endless lack of clarification as to exactly how to get CS to run properly. I think a straightforward explanation of what to do and how to do it is in order from Adobe.
Lundberg – or there is a problem with those users systems that Adobe can do nothing about. Or there is a problem with the preferences those users set in CS that Adobe can do nothing about.
So far, we have zero evidence of a real problem in CS, and lots of evidence showing CS is faster or the same speed as 7 (except for a few file IO cases that are limited by the OS and there is nothing Adobe can do about those).
If we knew what was wrong with everyone’s system, don’t you think we’d say something about that?
Some hours later I’ve tested what you suggested. (Firstly I did a disc utility check/repair from the CD).I did an install on the second drive of the OS. My 53.4MB/2.02GB took 256 secs to open, when I used the current install of CS on the ‘old’ HD. Installing CS on the second drive reduced the time to 120 secs, the same as when from opening the old install of 7 from the new OS disc. In all cases I set the preferences the same and the primary scratch to the non-OS internal HD. But the screen redraw was still very jumpy and slow with the new install of both the OS and CS. Re booting from the ‘old’ HD, but completely reinstalling CS, the opening time was 372 secs (!!!) in CS, and with my old install of 7 it was 130 sec. the screen redraw in 7 is very fast. So it would seem the the install of CS on my usual HD is less than optimal. But why then does 7 go so well? Why, even with the clean install on a different HD, is the screen redraw/scrolling so much slower than the 7 install? And what is it about my system (I did a clean install about a month ago anyway, and all has appeared OK) that doesn’t go well with CS, but gives no problems in 7? Why does my ‘corrupt system’ only show up with Photoshop CS and not 7, or any other application for that matter? What else can I try, and what can be done re the screen redraw? Thanks!
That may be how you have experienced it in the lab, and it may be the theoretical ideal situation. What I’m saying is that my real world experience contradicts that, and I’d like to know why. And, please, I’d appreciate an answer to my other questions. I see this forum as a place where Photoshop users who are having problems with the application, can come to get answers from experts who are much more experienced than they are. and the experts can also receive real world feed back from the real consumers. No one has anything to prove other than we all want to get the most out of the best application on earth. Right? And I don’t think anyone is saying Photoshop. in any version, is perfect. Yes, I want to learn more about how to get CS to work well, and isn’t this the place to do that?
I have read every post under this topic and have this to say; I to have been experiencing a painfully slow running CS with massive file sizes for even the smallest ad (ie. a small ad 2.6"wx2"h at 200dpi, cmyk = "scr: 352.7m/227.1m"). I work for an Advertising agency where we were working over version 6 before having our systems PROFESSIONALLY upgraded with all brand new OS and the full Adobe CS suite. As soon as I booted up CS for the first time and started a brand new document (before even installing any new fonts) I immediatly noticed a huge difference in the speed of photoshop. This has caused me many hours of pain especially trying to type in CS when the screen wont refresh properly at all and you can not see what you are typing unless you click out of the Text tool and allow it to render.
I really have a hard time beleiving that this problem has nothing to do with Adobe and everything to do with and individuals personal system, when there are this many people experiencing the exact same problem. If it is a problem with the OS then it is obviously a very common one and therefor Adobe still owes it to their customers to help them to solve the problem.
Mike – then, as suggested in this thread and others, you need to be looking at what on your machine could be causing the slowdown.
There aren’t "many" people experiencing the same problem – there are only a few, and most of those have resolved the problem once they found what was wrong on their system (utilities, bad installs, bad RAM, bad disk cables, etc.).
Look for utilities (font managers, anti-virus, etc.) that might be causing it. Look for corrupt fonts. Look for corrupt color profiles. Keep looking.
"And what is it about my system (I did a clean install about a month ago anyway, and all has appeared OK) that doesn’t go well with CS, but gives no problems in 7? "
Are you aware that there are two IDE channels in the MDD G4 systems, one ATA/66 and one ATA/33? Do you know which one you have your drives connected to? Is it possible that your faster CS numbers (from your test installing to a new, clean OS volume) are due to the fact the your IDE drive is on the faster (ATA 66) channel as opposed to the slower IDE channel (ATA 33)?
Chris and Adam. I wasn’t aware of the different channels and can find not reference to them in my handbook or system info. the additional HD was installed by the Apple dealer as the slave. Incidently, CS on the slave HD was just as slow as on the master HD in terms of operations with the large files, only the file opening times were better.
However, I have now done a complete initialize/reinstall, including adding a "scratch" partition on the HD. I’d discovered some incorrect operations in CS (e.g. filters gallery not operating correctly) that indicated that indeed the system was in some way corrupt. The good news was that CS now operates correctly. The bad news is that with large multi-layered files it is still much slower than 7! With smaller files the performance is indestinguishable from 7. I’ve not done a comparative performance test for the latest multi processor upgrade as yet, if indeed that has anything to do with this performance issue.
Regarding my "new" system, I installed a basic system, then CS, and tested it, then added my other apps one by one. It was fully tested and optimised by Techtool Pro 4. No virus or font utilities. There is no way that the speed difference is now being caused by a "corrupt" system!
I’m now convinced that for some of the types of files I use, like large multi layered files, 7 is appreciably more productive than CS.
<< However, I have now done a complete initialize/reinstall, including adding a "scratch" partition on the HD.>>
Sorry but if that scratch partition is on your System HD it won’t help you! You need to keep Photoshop on your System HD but set it to use the other HD for its Scratch space.
I regularly Repair Permissions starting from the install CD, but not after every software install. My primary scratch is set as the additional internal drive. I’ve experimented with setting the "Scratch" on the primary HD where CS is installed and other externals (3 firewires) as additional scratch discs as well. I read that on say a laptop with only one driive, having a scrach partition does improve performance, as there are no other files written in that area. I’ve set up my G4 iBook in this way.
Chris, What is wrong then? Why is the "problem" only appearing in CS and not 7? Is CS particulaty sensitive then to having the system optimised in a particular way? If I could be instructed exactly how to do the optimisation, I would, and to date I’ve done everything reasonable to attempt to do it. Perhaps I could send you a file that I’ve been working with, for you to try on your systems, to compare results. How else can you be absolutely sure that it’s not something to do with the application?
A partition is of no help with the scratch disk. It is still competing with the OS for the use of the single set of read/write heads in the drive.
Whenever you install any software that uses an installer, you should Repair Permissions before and after the installation. You can do it from your hard drive, just don’t have any other applications running while using Disk Utility.
but doesn’t a dedicated scratch always have ‘clear’ disc space available, especially if the rest of the disc is getting full?
Makes no difference. It’s still one set of heads.
Whenever your disk, regardless of size, gets to be 85% full, youre in big trouble, regardless of the applications you run and even if you don’t have Photoshop.
I only use a separate partition as a scratch disc (I’ve got an imac so extra internal drives aren’t an option) because it’s much easier to keep defragmented than defragging the whole drive. I’ve got a firewire external hard drive but can’t see much differencein performance between setting this or the partition as scratch. Actually considering how slow my computer is (G3 600Mhz imac) CS performance is really not too bad – it doesn’t run any noticeably slower than Photoshop Elements 2 which I’ve mainly been using. (Not that that’s any consolation for the poor individuals who are having problems with their configurations, with much better machines.)
I only use a separate partition as a scratch disc (I’ve got an imac so extra internal drives aren’t an option) because it’s much easier to keep defragmented than defragging the whole drive.
That still does not translate into a gain in speed performance. It’s a good idea anyway, though; just don’t fool yourself into thinking it helps speed up things. Fragmentation is not that big an issue in OS X as it was in 9.x and earlier.
Ramon – my understanding is that OSX defrags smaller files on the fly (20MB rings a bell) but with larger files it can still be necessary – my thinking was that as most of my computer use is dealing with image files, which can be larger, plus the large swap files that PS generates, I wasn’t going to be hurting by giving a dedicated area for scratch space, which could easily be defragged. But my next computer will have more than one internal drive!
And as I’ve said before: without your machine in my hands, all I can do is guess at broad catagories of things that might cause problems.
With every release of Photoshop, we find some utilities, some plugins, and some system problems that cause unforseen issues. Usually, they’re things that we have no control over and can’t do a bloody thing about. And all too frequently they’re one-off problems that occur on one persons machine and nobody else’s.
I can be relatively sure it isn’t the application because we don’t have thousands of similar complaints. But there could be something specific to the file, or more likely something specific to your preferences, your presets, or your machine.
Read my previous post again: I agree it’s a good idea to have a dedicated partition, for precisely the reasons you cite. It’s just not going to give you a speed boost.
You said that: "I regularly Repair Permissions starting from the install CD, but not after every software install."
An Apple support person told me you should always use the Hard Disk Tool that is install on your hard drive to Repair Permissions since permission info changes with every system update. That’s just an FYI, I don’t think it has any effect on your performance issues.
Chris-
You keep saying that slow performance is anecdotal and not symptomatic of a large population with problematic performance. But has Adobe done any real surveys? Or does it just rely on forum issues? Maybe it’s a small population right now, but how much market penetration does CS have right now and how many users have tried CS and quietly switched back to 7 and not bothered reporting?
I’ve been searching the forum since I received my CS trying to find a fix to the slow redraw/slow performance issue and it seems me that there are alot of posts about it. I’ve since added more RAM with minimal effect. Yeah – I understand that every system configuration is like a snowflake, no two alike, but
An Apple support person told me you should always use the Hard Disk Tool that is install on your hard drive to Repair Permissions since permission info changes with every system update. That’s just an FYI, I don’t think it has any effect on your performance issues.
Patty – we haven’t done any large surveys. But we do monitor the forums and tech support cases.
What we’re seeing is not even 1% of CS customers with serious performance problems — and most of those track the cause to something on their system (the remaining few never tell us what they found).
Now, the "slow" redraw is sort of real – but it’s a perception issue, not a measurable slowdown. The larger tile sizes in CS mean that CS will redraw the image in larger chunks – but it takes the same time (or less) than 7 did to redraw the complete window. Some users don’t like that.
I am experiencing the same problem working on a 1.7 GB (opened) image file in Photoshop CS under OS 10.3.3. My Dual 1.25 G4 is dragging painfully and the screen redraw is unbelievably slow as is even the brush tool. Someone at Adobe support pointed me towards an apparent problem using cinema displays and OS 10.3. I changed my setup to using a CRT monitor instead of my Cinema display and actually witnessed a fairly big performance increase in the screen redraw. I am seriously considering going back to photoshop 7, however there are a few functions in CS that I have already come to take for granted and now I’m cursing while using it all the time… Overall, my Dual 1.25 G4 performs like a early 400 Mhz G4 and that makes me very sad. As always I’m not even sure whether the problem lies with Adobe or Apple but I hope to see it fixed soon.
As always I’m not even sure whether the problem lies with Adobe or Apple but I hope to see it fixed soon.
The problem lies neither with Adobe nor with Apple. It’s something in your setup, either hardware or software, or both.
I happen to have a Dual Processor 1.25MHz G4 myself, and I find Photoshop 8 (CS) as faster or faster than Photoshop 7.0.1 –with the one notable exception of the healing brush on 16-bit images.
Read through all the threads dealing with memory issues and speed here.
How much RAM is installed in your machine, and what is the maximum percentage of available memory you have assigned to Photoshop 8? Have you always remembered to Repair permissions before and after installing any new software that uses an installer? Do you perform routine maintenance on your computer? Do you let it run 24/7 so that the Cron Scripts run in the middle of the night or, alternatively, do you run Cocktail regularly? Have you applied the MP update to Photoshop 8?
Have you made sure you don’t have "Allow Background Processing" checked in Photoshop > Preferences > File Browser > Options ?
Have you checked your hardware (RAM, drives, cables, connections) thoroughly?
Do you have the Photoshop scratch disk on a dedicated volume on a separate drive other than your bootup drive? Do you have ample scratch disk space and plenty of extra available hard disk space?
All this and more has been discussed in various threads here.
as a resonse to Chris’s emails that there are no other people experiencing this problem: I have experienced the exact same kind of very slow behavior on three different machines that I sometimes work on. Two of them are brand new G5s with only the essential applications installed and the screen redraw and some of the tools are responding incredibly slowly with very large files in PS CS. However, they all have Cinema displays attached and as I stated in my last posting there may well be a problem on Apples side with graphic intensive applications and their proccessing for certain displays.
If you are seeing what you believe to be pooer than expected performance with the G5’s then it’s always worth checking the Energy Savings settings. If it isn’t set for highest performance then you will experience a very substantial slow down in apps like Photoshop. Also check the Options tab in Energy Savings and make sure the processor speed is set to highest.
Staying with Energy Savings but not exclusive to G5’s – if using a second drive for scratch (very good idea) then make sure that the option to put the hard disk to sleep is "unchecked" AND the slider for "Put the computer to sleep when it is inactive for…" is set to NEVER. If you want your system to go to sleep then do it manually.
This is the first time that I’ve read anything about the Cinema Display and slow downs. I have a 23 inch unit and a 19" CRT but see no appreciable difference in redraw, etc
BTW: Adam, if you’re still reading the thread: G4 MDD’s had three IDE channels – ATA100, ATA66 and ATA33. The last was reserved for the DVD/CDRW drives
the scratch drives are all 12 – 15 GB clean, seperate drives and all other settings are as they should be. One of the G5s has 6 Gigs of RAM and we’ve tried different memory settings. Frankly, all this talk about particular settings being off or repairing permissions every time BEFORE and AFTER installing something (what a joke for the ‘most advanced operating system today’) starts pi me off seriously. PHOTOSHOP CS IS SLOWER BY FAR WITH THOSE LARGE FILES!!!! If there are any tune ups or software runs required to make it fast then PUT IT ON PAGE ONE OF THE PHOTOSHOP MANUAL! I’ve done high end digital imaging for quite a few years now and haven’t seen slow behaviour like this ever since photoshop 4. I encourage someone at Adobe to try working on a 1.5 GB file with 50 layers (not only adjustment layers and using various blending modes) in PS CS and tell me that it responds and redraws the screen as fast as PS 7. Every time I open the same file on the same machine with the same OS in PS 7 it is at least 100% faster. I am quitting the use of PS CS and am thinking about trying to get my money back and meanwhile will discourage anyone from buying it. Thanks, I am done with it.
<< all this talk about particular settings being off or repairing permissions every time BEFORE and AFTER installing something (what a joke for the ‘most advanced operating system today’) starts pi me off seriously. >>
Why? It only takes a couple of minutes. Did you never have to zap PRAM, or re-build your Desktop, when you used Mac OS 9?
I assume that have taken the trouble to buy, and run, Cocktail?
I am still reading the thread, and I totally forgot about the CD/DVD IDE channel in the MDD G4s 🙂 However it is still possible that if your drives are using the ATA/66 instead of the ATA/100 channel then you might see slower performance, especially with File I/O.
If you are experiencing slow redraw, bloated files, and slow healing brush (esp w/16bit images) you should try this:
I ran some tests today on both Win (2xOpteron 1.79GHz 2GB DDR RAM) and Mac (2xG4 1.25GHz 2GB DDR RAM) and found the healing brush to work faster on both systems in PS CS (on 16bit images) with the new Adjusted Refresh plug-in.
Notice that both systems are MP systems, and both systems have >1GB RAM. Don’t let that scare you – just be sure to keep the memory allocated to PS ~70%.
I would suggest anyone who may think they have performance issues to try out the new plugin.
Same rules apply:
1. Memory slider should never be set above 70% 2. Have your scratch volume on a clean, defragmented, dedicated partition (the faster the drive the better) 3. Make sure you have plenty of room for VM on your primary OS volume – running out of VM space can cripple PS
Hello every one my name is Arturo Munoz and I need help in resizing the file size of my document I got this poster that consist in the following dimensions 481 pixels wide by 715 pixels height and the file size is 604k and I need to resize it to no larger than 300k. How can I do that with out change the pixel dimensions. I will really appreciate if some one can give me a clue on this.
Just a final note from someone who had all the slow re-draw and huge file sizes and sorted it. On the installation software it warns you very clearly to quit all open applications before running the installer if you don’t all these symptoms appear. Completely uninstall all of CS, repair permissions and reinstall (making sure all apps are quit) and it’ll run all fine and dandy. Max (I didn’t get where I am today by reading the manual) Ellis
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