preparing jpegs for website

PS CS2
col space adobe RGB(1998)

the images look great in PS on a calibrated monitor. But when they are uploaded and viewed in a browser (e.g. IE which isnt a col managed program) they look darker and duller.

what steps can I take to compensate and have them appear on the web as they look in PS

thanks

franko wrote:

PS CS2
col space adobe RGB(1998)

what steps can I take to compensate and have them appear on the web as they look in PS

Convert to sRGB color space before uploading to the web server.

Regards,
Manfred Grebler

franko wrote:

PS CS2
col space adobe RGB(1998)

the images look great in PS on a calibrated monitor. But when they are uploaded and viewed in a browser (e.g. IE which isnt a col managed program) they look darker and duller.

what steps can I take to compensate and have them appear on the web as they look in PS

thanks

sRGB is a good space to work in for the web. Personally, I find that "save for web" really desaturates images from the way they look within Photoshop unless I work in "Generic RGB," which is quite anti-color-workflow, but so is the web...

--
Aaron

"Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest." -- John Stuart Mill

Aaron wrote:

sRGB is a good space to work in for the web. Personally, I find that "save for web" really desaturates images from the way they look within Photoshop unless I work in "Generic RGB," which is quite anti-color-workflow, but so is the web...

The mistake you make is that you assume that 'Save for the web' converts your images to sRGB. That would be logical, but it is not so. 'Save for the web' doesn't convert the color space, that is why your images look dull if you work in AdobeRGB. If you work in AdobeRGB, you have to convert to sRGB first.

--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Aaron wrote:

sRGB is a good space to work in for the web. Personally, I find that "save for web" really desaturates images from the way they look within Photoshop unless I work in "Generic RGB," which is quite anti-color-workflow, but so is the web...

The mistake you make is that you assume that 'Save for the web' converts your images to sRGB. That would be logical, but it is not so. 'Save for the web' doesn't convert the color space, that is why your images look dull if you work in AdobeRGB. If you work in AdobeRGB, you have to convert to sRGB first.

Just convert to sRGB ???Will that do it on it's own or do I still have to use levels or curves or whatever to try and compensate for it getting duller and darker ?

franko wrote:

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Aaron wrote:

sRGB is a good space to work in for the web. Personally, I find that "save for web" really desaturates images from the way they look within Photoshop unless I work in "Generic RGB," which is quite anti-color-workflow, but so is the web...

The mistake you make is that you assume that 'Save for the web' converts your images to sRGB. That would be logical, but it is not so. 'Save for the web' doesn't convert the color space, that is why your images look dull if you work in AdobeRGB. If you work in AdobeRGB, you have to convert to sRGB first.

Just convert to sRGB ???Will that do it on it's own or do I still have to use levels or curves or whatever to try and compensate for it getting duller and darker ?

If you use 'Convert to Profile', the image won't change at all. Apparently you are using 'Assign Profile', which is the wrong method.

--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Aaron wrote:

sRGB is a good space to work in for the web. Personally, I find that "save for web" really desaturates images from the way they look within Photoshop unless I work in "Generic RGB," which is quite anti-color-workflow, but so is the web...

The mistake you make is that you assume that 'Save for the web' converts your images to sRGB. That would be logical, but it is not so. 'Save for the web' doesn't convert the color space, that is why your images look dull if you work in AdobeRGB. If you work in AdobeRGB, you have to convert to sRGB first.

I make no such assumption. Even while working in sRGB, Save For Web always looks different than the document itself. I can move the window so I can see both and the Save For Web one typically looks less saturated. In Generic RGB, these effects seem to be minimized. I remember reading a thread on the Adobe forums about this quirk with Save For Web.

--
Aaron

"Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest." -- John Stuart Mill

Aaron wrote:

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Aaron wrote:

sRGB is a good space to work in for the web. Personally, I find that "save for web" really desaturates images from the way they look within Photoshop unless I work in "Generic RGB," which is quite anti-color-workflow, but so is the web...

The mistake you make is that you assume that 'Save for the web' converts your images to sRGB. That would be logical, but it is not so. 'Save for the web' doesn't convert the color space, that is why your images look dull if you work in AdobeRGB. If you work in AdobeRGB, you have to convert to sRGB first.

I make no such assumption. Even while working in sRGB, Save For Web always looks different than the document itself. I can move the window so I can see both and the Save For Web one typically looks less saturated. In Generic RGB, these effects seem to be minimized. I remember reading a thread on the Adobe forums about this quirk with Save For Web.

Why bother what the Save for web dialog looks like? Check the result in your browser. That is the only thing that counts. If you have converted to sRGB first (or you already worked in sRGB), the image should look (almost) the same in your browser as it looks in Photoshop itself. If it's really different, your monitor profile may be off.

--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Aaron wrote:

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Aaron wrote:

sRGB is a good space to work in for the web. Personally, I find that "save for web" really desaturates images from the way they look

within

Photoshop unless I work in "Generic RGB," which is quite anti-color-workflow, but so is the web...

The mistake you make is that you assume that 'Save for the web'

converts

your images to sRGB. That would be logical, but it is not so.

'Save for

the web' doesn't convert the color space, that is why your images

look

dull if you work in AdobeRGB. If you work in AdobeRGB, you have to convert to sRGB first.

I make no such assumption. Even while working in sRGB, Save For Web always looks different than the document itself. I can move the window so I can see both and the Save For Web one typically looks less saturated. In Generic RGB, these effects seem to be minimized. I remember reading a thread on the Adobe forums about this quirk with Save For Web.

Why bother what the Save for web dialog looks like? Check the result in your browser. That is the only thing that counts. If you have converted to sRGB first (or you already worked in sRGB), the image should look (almost) the same in your browser as it looks in Photoshop itself. If it's really different, your monitor profile may be off.

Colors must often match the hex colors provided in the HTML. I find that Generic RGB is the only profile that makes this happen consistently.

This precise fact makes PNG practically unusable for the web, because it supports color profiling that is implemented differently across browsers. Some browsers incorrectly adjust them, others do nothing at all (which is actually better for the designer.)

--
Aaron

"Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest." -- John Stuart Mill

Aaron wrote:

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Aaron wrote:

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Aaron wrote:

sRGB is a good space to work in for the web. Personally, I find

that

"save for web" really desaturates images from the way they look

within

Photoshop unless I work in "Generic RGB," which is quite anti-color-workflow, but so is the web...

The mistake you make is that you assume that 'Save for the web'

converts

your images to sRGB. That would be logical, but it is not so.

'Save for

the web' doesn't convert the color space, that is why your images

look

dull if you work in AdobeRGB. If you work in AdobeRGB, you have to convert to sRGB first.

I make no such assumption. Even while working in sRGB, Save For Web always looks different than the document itself. I can move the

window

so I can see both and the Save For Web one typically looks less saturated. In Generic RGB, these effects seem to be minimized. I remember reading a thread on the Adobe forums about this quirk with

Save

For Web.

Why bother what the Save for web dialog looks like? Check the

result in

your browser. That is the only thing that counts. If you have

converted

to sRGB first (or you already worked in sRGB), the image should look (almost) the same in your browser as it looks in Photoshop itself. If it's really different, your monitor profile may be off.

Colors must often match the hex colors provided in the HTML. I find that Generic RGB is the only profile that makes this happen consistently.
This precise fact makes PNG practically unusable for the web, because it supports color profiling that is implemented differently across browsers. Some browsers incorrectly adjust them, others do nothing at all (which is actually better for the designer.)

One other thing. I don't have this problem on my Mac; I use sRGB usually as the color space and for some reason the output matches hex colors perfectly, but on my PC at work, it does not. Both systems were calibrated with my Monaco EZcolor Optix. Just quirks you run into, I guess.

--
Aaron

"Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest." -- John Stuart Mill

Aaron wrote:

Colors must often match the hex colors provided in the HTML. ^

Who told you that nonsens? (We are talking about photos saved as JPEG, don't we?)

supports color profiling that is implemented differently across browsers.

Browsers do not consider color profiles. Anyway, when you use "Save for Web" any color profile in the image will be removed.

Regards,
Manfred Grebler

Manfred Grebler wrote:

supports color profiling that is implemented differently across browsers.

Browsers do not consider color profiles. Anyway, when you use "Save for Web" any color profile in the image will be removed.

Not necessarily. You can click a checkmark if you want an embedded profile. It's under the 'Progressive' checkmark.

--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl

Manfred Grebler wrote:

Aaron wrote:

[..]

supports color profiling that is implemented differently across browsers.

Browsers do not consider color profiles. [..]

Some do, some don't.

Safari, for instance, does. If there's no embedded color profile, the
1.0.x versions of Safari assume the monitor's profile (which is a pretty
stupid thing to do). In 2.0.x, Safari assumes sRGB unless told otherwise by the image file.

Other browsers do things differently.

So: The best practice when it comes to color on the web: Convert your image to sRGB. Embed a color profile into it when you save it (PS has a check box for this). And keep in mind that services like Flickr will often scale the image locally and ignore the color profile. If you could assume all elements in the chain were color managed, then any old profile would do. But you can't, so it won't. :-)

Paul Mitchum wrote:

Manfred Grebler wrote:

Aaron wrote:

[..]

supports color profiling that is implemented differently across browsers.

Browsers do not consider color profiles. [..]

Some do, some don't.

Safari, for instance, does. If there's no embedded color profile, the
1.0.x versions of Safari assume the monitor's profile (which is a pretty
stupid thing to do). In 2.0.x, Safari assumes sRGB unless told otherwise by the image file.

Other browsers do things differently.

So: The best practice when it comes to color on the web: Convert your image to sRGB. Embed a color profile into it when you save it (PS has a check box for this). And keep in mind that services like Flickr will often scale the image locally and ignore the color profile. If you could assume all elements in the chain were color managed, then any old profile would do. But you can't, so it won't. :-)

If it's an actual photograph and it ends up on Flickr (or even on my own gallery), I'm less concerned with actual color values and more concerned with relative color values. I never Save For Web if it's a photograph, anyway; I just want a max. quality JPEG.

But for web graphics where a range of color is meant to match with a hex color on the page (a heading graphic for example), some of these color management issues do rear their ugly heads.

All I am doing is offering my experience with sRGB and Generic RGB with regard to saving web GRAPHICS (not photographs!) and the Save For Web function.

--
Aaron

"Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest." -- John Stuart Mill

"Aaron" wrote in message

Paul Mitchum wrote:

Manfred Grebler wrote:

Aaron wrote:

[..]

supports color profiling that is implemented differently across browsers.

Browsers do not consider color profiles. [..]

Some do, some don't.

Safari, for instance, does. If there's no embedded color profile, the
1.0.x versions of Safari assume the monitor's profile (which is a pretty
stupid thing to do). In 2.0.x, Safari assumes sRGB unless told otherwise by the image file.

Other browsers do things differently.

So: The best practice when it comes to color on the web: Convert your image to sRGB. Embed a color profile into it when you save it (PS has a check box for this). And keep in mind that services like Flickr will often scale the image locally and ignore the color profile. If you could assume all elements in the chain were color managed, then any old profile would do. But you can't, so it won't. :-)

If it's an actual photograph and it ends up on Flickr (or even on my own gallery), I'm less concerned with actual color values and more concerned with relative color values. I never Save For Web if it's a photograph, anyway; I just want a max. quality JPEG.

But for web graphics where a range of color is meant to match with a hex color on the page (a heading graphic for example), some of these color management issues do rear their ugly heads.

All I am doing is offering my experience with sRGB and Generic RGB with regard to saving web GRAPHICS (not photographs!) and the Save For Web function.

--
Aaron

"Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest." -- John Stuart Mill

Hi

I noticed you mentioning Generic RGB, what is that?

I don't see a profile anywhere for Generic. sRGB and all sorts of other RGB but no Generic.

Roy G

Roy G wrote:

"Aaron" wrote in message

Paul Mitchum wrote:

Manfred Grebler wrote:

Aaron wrote:

[..]

supports color profiling that is implemented differently across browsers.

Browsers do not consider color profiles. [..]

Some do, some don't.

Safari, for instance, does. If there's no embedded color profile, the
1.0.x versions of Safari assume the monitor's profile (which is a

pretty

stupid thing to do). In 2.0.x, Safari assumes sRGB unless told

otherwise

by the image file.

Other browsers do things differently.

So: The best practice when it comes to color on the web: Convert your image to sRGB. Embed a color profile into it when you save it (PS has a check box for this). And keep in mind that services like Flickr will often scale the image locally and ignore the color profile. If you

could

assume all elements in the chain were color managed, then any old profile would do. But you can't, so it won't. :-)

If it's an actual photograph and it ends up on Flickr (or even on my own gallery), I'm less concerned with actual color values and more concerned with relative color values. I never Save For Web if it's a photograph, anyway; I just want a max. quality JPEG.

But for web graphics where a range of color is meant to match with a hex color on the page (a heading graphic for example), some of these color management issues do rear their ugly heads.

All I am doing is offering my experience with sRGB and Generic RGB with regard to saving web GRAPHICS (not photographs!) and the Save For Web function.

--
Aaron

"Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest." -- John Stuart Mill

Hi

I noticed you mentioning Generic RGB, what is that?

I don't see a profile anywhere for Generic. sRGB and all sorts of

other RGB

but no Generic.

Roy G

I can remember a Generic RGB profile since at least Photoshop 7, I assume it comes with it... I am running CS now, though.

--
Aaron

"Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest." -- John Stuart Mill

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

franko wrote:

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Aaron wrote:

sRGB is a good space to work in for the web. Personally, I find that "save for web" really desaturates images from the way they look within Photoshop unless I work in "Generic RGB," which is quite anti-color-workflow, but so is the web...

The mistake you make is that you assume that 'Save for the web' converts your images to sRGB. That would be logical, but it is not so. 'Save for the web' doesn't convert the color space, that is why your images look dull if you work in AdobeRGB. If you work in AdobeRGB, you have to convert to sRGB first.

Just convert to sRGB ???Will that do it on it's own or do I still have to use levels or curves or whatever to try and compensate for it getting duller and darker ?

If you use 'Convert to Profile', the image won't change at all. Apparently you are using 'Assign Profile', which is the wrong method.

Well I did that, and unfortunately when I look at the jpegs on the website with IE they still look darker & duller than they look in photoshop.

Because I had many images, I used the Image Processor (in Scripts) to batch convert them to jpegs, and there is a check box to convert to sRGB and also at the bottom to embed the profile.

?> --

Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl

Aaron wrote:

But for web graphics where a range of color is meant to match with a hex color on the page (a heading graphic for example), some of these color management issues do rear their ugly heads.

For graphics (not photographs) to be published on the web you should just turn off color mangement in photoshop at all. (You can do this on a per document base.)
But often JPEG is not the best format in this case...

Regards,
Manfred Grebler