I have really never got the hang of the Crop Tool. I want to make a uninteroplated fixed size crop of 16×12 inches. Th image is 18.5 x12.5 inches I set 16 x12 in the dimensions boxes and 300 dpi. I draw a crop of any dimensions.This shows as a small box with the same aspect, but not desired size. The Info gives W H as 16×12 This gives a supposed fixed size crop marque, but can mean in order to get the size I want, the result will be interpolated. Is there any way to draw a fixed size crop like drawing a fixed size selection and then cropping to that selection, short of copying and pasting to a new document.
I have really never got the hang of the Crop Tool. I want to make a uninteroplated fixed size crop of 16×12 inches. Th image is 18.5 x12.5 inches I set 16 x12 in the dimensions boxes and 300 dpi.
Here is your error. You can’t specify the dimensions and the dpi without invoking interpolation. Jim
Does more than that! Insures that ALL of the original pixels and NO interpolated pixels are used. So no pixels are tossed out and no ersatz pixels are created in the cropped result
In the cropped area OF COURSE. That should go without saying.
But since there is aome ambiguity, perhaps I should point out that if you happen to be cropping without changing the dimensions of the cropped area (thatis, just culling out a portion of the original as if taking a scissors to it) the whole question is moot.
I can’t speak for others but, for myself, I have NEVER cropped any image in that mode. I most always ENLARGE in conjunction with cropping and assume most other users do so as well.
I use the crop tool all the time (with nothing specified) when I working on scans — I’m usually scanning at at least twice the rez I’ll need for final output, so it’s rare I have to worry about upsampling in any context.
If I need a crop of exactly x by x pixels, I’ll generally downsize the image to the larger dimension, then use rectangular marquee for exact pixel dimensions for the other side to crop. Although in this case the crop tool would also work with pixels specified, as long as you used all the image for the long side specified.
What I cannot work out is why ‘Fixed’ crop size does not give that size in the image, as with fixed ‘Selection’ size.
You can draw a fixed crop that is obviously smaller than the one you have specified, but the info tells you that it is the dimension you specified. Why?
Why resample? The selection tool when clicked with a fixed selection, makes that selection.
Why does the Crop tool not do the same? I want a fixed crop size, that I can move around, with the unwanted area darkened. The only way to do this is to look at the info and draw the crop, or to set guides for the crop dimensions.
If you enter in dimensions in the crop options, Photoshop assumes that you want that crop to resample to whatever’s in those dimensions/PPI.
The only way to think of to get it to work in the manner that you need – Yes, create guides where you want to crop, or create a selection and go to image>crop.
It seems like a tool for anyone who has no clue about pixels and image sizes, but provides arbitrary resampling (interpolation) to give a fixed size and DPI.
There have been many other threads on this subject. The Crop tool does not give any indication that it is going to resample, but when you pick a size or resolution, and then select an area of the image, unless the area you have selected is EXACTLY the same size/resolution as the current image settings, the tool will either upsample or downsample. As Tony and others have said, if you leave the Crop tool settings blank, it will not resample. That is why I use the Rectangular Marquee tool for fixed-size crops. The Marquee tool will NEVER resample! Just set the size you want in inches or pixels and click on the image. A selection box appears of the specified size, and you can drag it around until you get the crop you want. If the selected area is too large or small, just change the resolution until you get what you want. Of course, there are limits to how much you can change the resolution. For printing, you probably want to keep the resolution somewhere between 200 and 300 ppi. If you can’t get the selection you want, then, as a last resort, you can resample, but YOU control the resampling process, not the tool. To me, this is a much better process than letting the Crop tool do what it will. Bert
Mike, I think Photoshop provides all the crop functionality you could possibly need or want. The Crop tool is good for some things, and the Rectangular Marquee tool is good for others. My only complaint with the Crop tool is that it doesn’t tell you when it is resampling, but that would mean another click, and some people wouldn’t like THAT. I guess you can’t satisfy everybody. If you want a fast way to get to the print size you need and you don’t mind the resampling, the Crop tool is fine. If you want to control the process and are willing to do the extra steps, use the Marquee tool. You get what you pay for. I really think the designers picked a very good combination of functions to give almost any user the functionality he wants. But that’s just my opinion… Bert
the only time the crop tool resamples is when you specify a dpi
This is true, but it would be nice if there was a "health warning" when you do set a value.
It’s also confusing when you set a size [i.e. aspect ratio] it always messes with the resolution of the image to make the pixels fit the dimensions [even though it’s not doing any resampling].
It’s also confusing when you set a size [i.e. aspect ratio] it always messes with the resolution of the image to make the pixels fit the dimensions [even though it’s not doing any resampling].
Of course. It is redistributing the existing pixels you have chosen to keep into the new area you have specified.
How could it do otherwise, unless it DID resample?
When cropping you should not specify a dpi UNLESS YOU HAVE TO. and you determine that necessity AFTER cropping with the dpi option left blank. If the resulting image is satisfactory leave it alone. If not, THEN resample.
The whole idea is to use only original data if you can get away with it, and to use ALL of the original data without discarding pixels. The PS crop tool does exactly that if you leave the resolution blank. You end up with a cropped product that has no interpolated pixels and has used ALL of the pure data, throwing NONE of the data in the cropped area away.
The marquee tool cannot begin to compete with the crop tool for vesatility. Sorry, not meaning to scold, but one ought not disparage this terrific tool for lack of understanding it.
But, if all you think you have done is set an aspect ratio, the Crop tool bahaves as if you have set a size.
You HAVE set a size. You cannot set an aspect ratio with the crop tool, Colin, only with the marquee tool. Crop tool is actual measurement, either in inches/mm/cm/etc or pixels. If you simply type in 5 and 4, for example, it will be the default measurement you have set in prefs (inches for most folks), unless you specify "px".
If you want to make a specific sized crop, you should get that specific size as the crop marquee. You can draw a shape that bears no relation to the size you want, even if the aspect is correct. The Info says this is the size you want, when from what you see on screen it is patently not. Logically a fixed size crop marquee, should behave exactly like a fixed size selection marquee and should be drawn similarly, by just clicking and moving to the desired position.
"You can draw a shape that bears no relation to the size you want, even if the aspect is correct"
Mike,
that is the whole point of cropping, to select only the area you want and make it into the exact size you want.
if you have an 8×10 image and want to take only a part of that image and make it into an 8×10, with the rectangular marquee set to a fixed size of 8×10, you will select the entire image. with the crop tool you can select only the area you want to select, everything else will be deleted and what is left will be an 8×10.
The marquee tool cannot begin to compete with the crop tool for vesatility. Sorry, not meaning to scold, but one ought not disparage this terrific tool for lack of understanding it.
I agree with everything George said except the above. The tools do NOT compete. They each offer different approaches to the same problem…i.e., selecting a subset of pixels in an existing image. The Crop tool does more than simply selecting…it changes resolution and/or resamples to get the result specified by the user. The Marquee tool just does the selection, allowing the user to make any further adjustments he deems appropriate with other tools. I would offer the following summary of the two tools’ functionality: The Crop tool is for rank beginners…who don’t know how to do the process manually…and experts…who understand EXACTLY what the tool is going to do in every situation. The Marquee tool is for everybody else. That does not apply to simple crops with no size or resolution specified…then the Crop tool functions exactly like the Marquee tool. bert
Um, well, maybe the above is a slight oversimplification…I am renowned for those. There are some other differences in the functions of the two tools that make one better than the other for specific tasks. I particularly like the Marquee tool for cropping images for the Web. I just set the pixel dimensions to 800 x 600 and slide the box around on the image until I get what I want. Doesn’t always work out…sometimes I want more or less than the box provides. Then, I either live with a different size image on the monitor or…(shudder) resample. Bert
I’ll be "offline" for the next five days. We’re leaving for Hawaii (Kauai) tomorrow morning, and they don’t believe in computers or the Internet over there. 🙂 So if I don’t respond to your responses, I’m not being rude…Aloha! Bert
My point exactly. If you key in numbers and give no units, it puts them in for you. I think it’s just a shame that you can’t specify a "pure" aspect ratio.
The marquee tool cannot begin to compete with the crop tool for vesatility.
Well, I’m not sure I agree – they’re different tools. One of the convenient "versatilities" of the marquee tool for cropping is this.
Say you have a circle, a picture of a CD or other irregularly shaped object on a layer. You can control click the layer to select the object. You can then easily and efficiently crop to the exact size of the irregular object.
You can also increase that selection by a set amount using Select|Modify|Expand and crop. You can also Select|Transform Selection so that it behaves, to some extent, like the crop tool without resampling.
You can’t do anything like that with the crop tool.
So, in summary, different tools for different tasks.
When I use the crop tool with a fixed size, I can draw several different sizes on screen, which are all different apart from their aspect, but the Info still says that the size is what you want, when it patently is not. If you then do a crop, you get a fixed size crop that is either downsampled or interpolated depending in whether you have set a output DPI or not. To me that is just stupid.
It is for ‘ignorant’ press people who just want a fixed size, without having to think about the quality of the pixels in the final image.
either downsampled or interpolated depending in whether you have set a output DPI or not.
Mike, I guess by interpolation you mean upsampling? I think of downsampling as a form of interpolation as well…both processes replace existing pixel values with either more or less new pixel values.
Regardless, I don’t think your statement is quite true. No resampling…either up or down…will occur unless you specify a resolution value along with the size. Somebody made this point a few posts ago, and I ran some tests (I thought they were wrong) and it’s true. If you just set the size, you will get an image of the specified size no matter what area you select. The resolution will be adjusted to give you that size, but no resampling (or interpolation) will occur. Try it. Bert
As far as I can see if I have a image 18.5x 12.5 in and 300 dpi and wish to make a crop 15×10 in at 300 DPI and draw such a crop, I do not automatically get that crop size as a crop marquee. If I drag a crop, I have no idea what actual on screen crop size marquee that is. So if I actually draw a crop with the correct aspect, but just 1 inch wide with 300dpi as output, then the just that small area is enlarged to 16×12 inches, by interploation.
If I set no DPI then that area is produced, but the image is no longer 300DPI. Now if there was option for output DPI and no resampling then the crop marquee would jump to being the correct size, just like a fixed size selection marquee. I have posted a example
You can see that the crop marquee is not 15×10 inches, but the Info says it is. The guides show what a actual 15×10 crop marquee should be. I have no way of knowing what the actual crop marquee is when I draw one. I expect a fixed size crop marquee to behave exactly how a fixed size selection marquee behaves. Anything else is illogical.
Again I say that this seems to be a left over from the early days of Photoshop, when not very knowledgable print people wanted a quick way to get a fixed output size, without any regard as to the quality of the output.
The crop tool works just as it would in a darkroom (without using the dpi setting). If you take a 35mm negative and want an 8×12 print you can use the entire negative. But if you only want to make an 8×12 out of only part of the negative you have to select the area you want to use and enlarge that area to 8×12. The resulting image would then be grainier because you are not using as much of the negative. With photoshop you are not using as much of the original file so the image will appear more pixelated.
What you appear to be wanting to do is take an 8×12 print and then using a pair of scissors literally cut a 6×8 section out of the center of it. For what you are trying to do the marquee tool will work better but that does not mean… "Again I say that this seems to be a left over from the early days of Photoshop, when not very knowledgable print people wanted a quick way to get a fixed output size, without any regard as to the quality of the output."
In photoshop there are at least 3 ways to do anything, some will work better for certain tasks than others.
I create a new file using the size I want the cropped image to be. I then drag the original into that image. Now you can move the image around on the canvas until you get what you want.
There are two sizes to contend with: (1)The size of the crop tool outline on the original image defining the content of the cropped output, and (2)The size of the cropped output as it would be printed. These two sizes are not the same but they do have the same aspect ratio.
When you specify a crop width(x) and height(y) in inches with the crop tool, you are fixing the output width and height regardless of what you include within the box so defined. The portion of the original to be contained within that box is determined by the outline of the crop tool. You have already relinquished control of the output’s aspect ratio, but you still control its size and placement.
If you want a 10-in wide x 15-in high output, you fix the crop tool at 10-in x 15-in. If, for whatever reason, you insist on a 300-dpi output, go ahead and specify that as well. But keep in mind that PS must resample to achieve that resolution and you may well be better off with the "natural" resolution you would get by not imposing a pet resolution (300dpi) if you have no good reason for it.
I don’t know why you need 300 dpi per se. Perhaps you want to move the image into another image that is 300dpi and you want to maintain size constant after the move. Perhaps you intend to send the image to a printing service that asks to receive 300dpi and you are slavishly complying. More probably, you have been brainwashed into believing that quality is invariably better at 300dpi as opposed to anything lower, without appreciating that higher resolution achieved by resampling may degrade an image that—unresampled at a lower resolution—gets all the quality your printer can handle at the print size you want
I am sorry to labour the point. I now know all the workarounds. 300 DPI is generally considered the minimum necessary pixel density for quality printing. The way the crop tool works is inimical to producing a quality result, UNLESS you are aware of how it operates internally. An extra checkmark to indicate no resampling or change in the present pixel density would overcome the deficiency; it would then have to work like Crop in the Image Menu.
300 DPI is generally considered the minimum necessary pixel density for quality printing
300 PPI is not written in stone.
So use the crop tool with the resolution blank, and if the resulting resolution isn’t too high or too low, you should be OK.
Also consider this:
If the crop tool worked as you want it to, giving you only the exact size at the current rez (see marquis), and you postioned it on your image to crop it, you are limiting yourself. One could easily see being less than 100% satisfied with a particular size at the current rez (gee if only I could hold the left and get a little more/less of that <insert object here> on the right!).
Working with the tool set to fixed size and resolution blank gives you more creative leeway in the cropping process, and the resulting minor resolution change, affected to resize without resampling, should not be a major concern.
The only thing wrong with the Crop Tool is your understanding of it. The dimensions you specify are always going to be the image size AFTER the crop. You can’t have it both ways. Leave the resolution blank and check it after you crop. If you’re having a problem with it rezzing up, maybe you need bigger scans.
The cool things about the crop tool that haven’t been mentioned here that put it head and shoulders above cropping with the Marquee Tool are that you can rotate and fix perspective while cropping and mask off the cropped out portion to help judge your best crop. I only crop with the Crop Tool, never the Marquee.
"…All I want is…the option not to have any change in the pixel density, without my knowledge…"
If not resampled, an image has a fixed number of pixels. The image size can be changed but, again without resampling, the number of pixels stays the same. For that to be true, the size of each individual pixel must change. When the image is enlarged, the pixels are enlarged. When the pixels are enlarged, the pixel resolution (pixel "density" as you call it) decreases. You can over-ride this action and resample if you wish by specifying the cropped resolution, so you do have the very capability the lack of which your message decries.
Hi I have a new problem with my pshop 7 running on my XP.
Somehow…I managed to change the tool to a crosshair which defines my crop sizes rather than giving me a bunch of handles to manipulate the image. I’m stuck cropping to ‘it’s’ sizes.
Already checked out some stuff like the pre-sets, but can’t find out how to get out of this restriction on this tool.
* Also, my workspace shows a ‘grey number one, and an envelope with a lightening bolt in it*
I admit I was looking around more of the program one day…but now I’ve done it and can’t work!
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