My monitor’s color NOT matching Print shop’s output – WYSIWYG problem

X
Posted By
XMan
Jan 21, 2004
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1124
Replies
13
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Closed
I have some RGB images that I converted to CMYK for professional printing. They look fine on my LCD monitor and the colors match when printed on my inkjet printer. But when I got a matchprint back from the professional printers, the yellows were washed out green and the blues contained too much magenta.

When I went back to check the color mix, sure enough I found too some cyan in the yellow and some magenta in the blue.

I do not have Color Management turned on. The "View->CMYK Proof" preview does not approach the match print at all.

I’d like to have some idea of how it will print without having to go through the lengthly process of having match prints made up. Is there anything I can do to truly get WYSIWYG color on my monitor so I can really know how it will look when printed at the printers?

Thanks!

I’m using PS 7.0
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YrbkMgr
Jan 21, 2004
First, don’t expect much from an LCD. Color representation and thus color management aren’t great, depending on the monitor.

Go to Ian Lyons’ site <http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7-colour/ps7_1.htm> and spend 15 minutes reading. You’ll be on your way.
TM
Thomas_Madsen
Jan 21, 2004
Is there anything I can do to truly get WYSIWYG color on my monitor so I can really know how it will look when printed at the printers?

WYSIWYG is a myth.
You’ll never get an exact match of a printed image on you monitor, but you can get pretty darn close.
How close depends on the accuracy of your colour profiles and turning colour management off in Photoshop, isn’t the way to go (IMHO of course :).

A good place to start is:
<http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7-colour/ps7_1.htm>

—
Regards
Madsen.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Jan 21, 2004
TOTN on NPR had a 20 year program about Mac. WYSIWYG ids a term invented for showing the actual type face you would see in print.

How it got bastardized into color is beyond me. Phosphors are not ink. Hell, they ain’t even dyes!
L
LenHewitt
Jan 21, 2004
X-Man,

I do not have Color Management turned on. <<

Then you will never get reliable colour output. Period.

Here’s why (in brief)

The numbers in an image file do not represent specific colours. For example, 100R, 0G, 0B just means "make the brightest, most saturated red you can". It doesn’t mean a specific SHADE of red, and the red that will result will depend upon the capabilities of the device the data is being sent to (usually either a monitor or printer of some sort).

Only when coupled with an ICC profile that describes the ‘colour space’ do those numbers represent a specific shade.

If it helps you in any way here is my short "idiot’s guide to CM" <g>

There is data in a file. That data doesn’t represent specific colours UNTIL the colour space is stated (embedded profile or assign profile).

The working profile sets up the colour space you are working in, and the embedded profile allows the CM engine to convert the file data values to your working space values so those values still represent the same colour as originally indicated by the file data and embedded profile.

The monitor profile alters that data from your working space on the fly to allow the monitor to display the colours represented by the data within the working space profile.

When you print, the output profile alters the data to allow the printer to reproduce the colours represented by the data and the image profile.

The monitor profile effectively drops out of the equation when you print.

Provided the ‘translation’ from working space to monitor is correct AND the translation from working space to output device is correct, the print will match the monitor.

However, only if the translation from embedded profile to working space is also correct will the monitor and print also match the original file intentions.

Follow the links you have been given to computer-darkroom
B
Brian
Jan 21, 2004
wrote:
…and some magenta in the blue.

Not sure what you mean by this; you cannot print blue without magenta — otherwise you just get cyan.
SM
Stuart_McCoy
Jan 21, 2004
XMan,

As others have already stated, Ian Lyons site is a great place to start learning about color management. If you want to learn more about Color Management though might I suggest picking up Real World Color Management < http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201773406/104 -7059216-4488767?v=glance> coauthored by Bruce Fraser, a frequent forum member especially in the color management forum (go figure).

Lawrence,

While WYSWIG may have initially been used to describe type on-screen, it stands for What You See Is What You Get. Given the way current GUIs for OSes and applications work, I’d say WYSWIG is a rather fitting description for many other things, including color management. By the way, I’m sure you knew what WYSWIG meant, I’m just pointing out that it doesn’t exclusively cover type on-screen.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Jan 21, 2004
I know what it means. I was simply forwarding the history and my practical take on color response.

This is not new stuff. Many years ago, when designing and building TV monitors the same question came up, ie the colors seen in a transparency and the colors ssen on the monitor didn’t match. Sometimes the monitor looke better, sometimes the transparency. The twain never met. Given the fact that we (Tektronix) could afford whatever we needed to calibrate color including our own Vectorscope, it was a reasonable conclusion. Now, we refer to this as gamut.

On the otherhand, from a buddist point of view, WYSIWYG is exactly right! 🙂
X
XMan
Jan 22, 2004
Thanks for your responses!

So I need to have color management turned on so that the computer knows how to translate the color data into my monitors profile, and how to translate it to look the same on the print shop’s profile.

Does this mean I need to know what my print shop’s printer is so I can set up a profile for it in photoshop (and use View->Proof SetUp-> NewPrintersCMYK), or does it mean I just need to know their printer will acknowledge my embedded profile and use that to convert my intended colors into their own color workspace?

To Brian NoSpam:
The "some magenta in the blue" should really have read "too much magenta in the blue"! ..Because my monitor showed a deep blue I had no idea when printed professionally that there would be an obvious magenta hue to it..
L
LenHewitt
Jan 22, 2004
XMAN
Does this mean I need to know what my print shop’s printer is so I can set
up a profile for it in photoshop <<

That would be the ideal way to go, but you would use that profile as your CMYK working profile.

If that is not practical, embedding your working profile would be the next best thing. Many RIP’s now honour embedded profiles and provided your print shop’s does (and is setup to utilize this facility), it will convert to the required colour space when the seps are made.
B
Brian
Jan 22, 2004
XMan wrote:

To Brian NoSpam: The "some magenta in the blue" should really have read "too much magenta in the blue"! ..Because my monitor showed a deep blue I had no idea when printed professionally that there would be an obvious magenta hue to it..

Gotcha… the balance between blue and purple when mixing cyan and magenta is a fragile one, partially due to the weakness of cyan ink – very small percentage changes in either ink will make significant changes to the hue of the color, much more so than say the red/orange balance using magenta and yellow, etc.

If you’re going to be doing a lot of CMYK work your best friend should be a Pantone Process swatchbook – pick all of your process colors from there and disregard your monitor (even the best-calibrated high-end CRT still cannot display CMYK colors with 100% accuracy) and you’ll be in a much better place in terms of predictable color.

Brian
AJ
A.J._Dominguez
Jan 29, 2004
Brian,

What would one do if the blue we are talking about is in a photo? As in blue water. What adjustments can be made for that?

A.J.
L
LenHewitt
Jan 29, 2004

A.J,

See the following topic:

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?13@@.1de78dbf/0

Message 14 has one method….
B
Brian
Jan 29, 2004
What would one do if the blue we are talking about is in a photo? As in blue water. What adjustments can be made for that?

I’m not sure I follow – you can make any color adjustments you wish to make in Photoshop.

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