magenta cast when using ICC profiles

M
Posted By
michaelcassidy
Nov 17, 2003
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788
Replies
13
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Closed
I have now been on several user forums and see many references to this problem. Generally the questioners never respond to the suggested corrections or they say everything is OK after reading a tutorial. I am using PS CS (although it happened the same with PS 7) a Dell computer running XP and an Epson 2200. Using print "Same as Source" it prints fine, although it is very difficult to adjust for different paper media this way – thats why profiles were created. Using any ICC profile causes both the print preview image and the actual image to be very magenta. This occurs on test images provided by various experts, even the grey scale test swatches become pink scale. I am using the NCA (no color adjustment setting), I am not applying the profile twice (although it does happen whether I use mode convert to profile and then same as source or soft proof and then the profile in the printer destination dialog). I am fairly certain that it is not a simple set up error since it does not occur when I use my Toshiba which is running Win2000. It is a nuisance to have to only use the slower PC. I have calibrated the monitor although only using Adobe gamma. I am wondering if their is a bios or hardware problem with certain PC’s or video cards (this PC has an NVIDIA GeForce2MX)?

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PC
Philo_Calhoun
Nov 17, 2003
My settings for the Epson 2200 are:
Workspace AdobeRGB
(all images have been converted to AdobeRGB as well)
Image source space: adobeRGB
Printer space: Epson2200Luster.icc (or something like that: I have a couple of close Epson profiles)
Conversion: perceptual
Under Printer properties, advanced, I have all colour mgt turned off. I use view: proof and select the Epson2200Luster.icc with paper white on and black compensation checked.
This is off the top of my head, so may not be exact. I ignore the print preview, and the colours are a good match.
DB
Davide_B.
Nov 17, 2003
Michael,

you did not specify whether your epson driver color-manage the image or not. Sending to printer with SameAsSource it’s not a good idea, in my opinion: you need the colors to be converted – somewhere. If you got ICC profiles for different media, you could simply tell to PS "Printer color management" (under Print with preview option) and select into the Epson driver the correct ICC.
Otherwise, convert to the printer profile in PS, and tell to the driver "do not color manage" or something like this.
This, as far as I know, is a correct way to print.
Anyway, Adobe Gamma is better than nothing, but if you need color matching, I suggest you to buy some hardware instrument (like Eye-one, Spider and so on)
Regards,

Davide
PC
Philo_Calhoun
Nov 17, 2003
Often the magenta cast (if it is strong) results from a double conversion. If you do what Davide says, then both the printer dialogue and printer properties should set colour mgt to off. If you leave the document with an assigned AdobeRGB profile and have the printer dialogue set to use the printer profile, set the printer properties colour mgt to off. You can try converting the document to something like sRGB and setting printer properties colour mgt to sRGB, but only do this if you suspect that your printer icc/icm’s are corrupt. Ian Lyons has several potential setups that more or less work at computer-darkroom.com
The method I mentioned is what works best for me (and I can control rendering intent rather than leave it to the printer to do).
GM
Glenn_Mitchell
Nov 17, 2003
Yes. My initial prints with an Epson 2200 had a magenta cast, too. It was the result of double conversion of the profile.

When you select ICM color management for the Epson 2200, the default is to have the printer driver manage the color for the output (is says "Applied By Printer Software). This is not what you want. This will gived you a magenta cast, if you also use color management in PS.

On the same dialog, you have to select "No Color Adjustment." This tells the printer driver that you are using color management and the incoming file will already be converted to the proper profile for the selected paper.

Personally, I think Epson made a bad choice for the default. Most people who know what a printer profile is and how to use it will be printing from something like PS or QPrint and will not want/expect the printer driver to be converting images on the fly to a printer profile.

Cheers,

Mitch
D
duncanmckie
Dec 28, 2003
I have the same problem after upgrading from ver 5 to 7.
PC
Philo_Calhoun
Dec 28, 2003
Download the most recent Epson drivers.
BL
Bill_Lamp
Dec 29, 2003
OT but to get better results from your 2200:

When I got mine I was very impressed. It was enough of an upgrade over the 1270 that I could see that the "noise" I had been fighting spot by spot was film grain and not noise from the slide & negative scans.

Later I read somewhere (here or from a link here to the information ?) that the 2200 had a wider color space than Adobe RGB. I tested it and it certainly is true. If you scan slides or negatives, you will find that your print results are much more realistic with PhotoPro space from Kodak (free legal download).

But I promise you that if your picture has a wide range of yellows and reds, you will find that it will NOT display properly on most web sites or with many common picture viewers. (perhaps using Save for Web….???? which I haven’t yet tried)

ON topic:

As I understand it, using Print With Preview and turning off printer color management turns Photoshop into a type of pre-printer driver with the color work it does being left as Photoshop sends it without correction. I’m not at my house with the computer with Photoshop so I can’t give you my settings OR the link to the excellent site with that information. (and post weekend AND another print that meets art museum show standards completed blahs/letdown have set in so I can’t even remember how to spell his name – Lyonns -?). Once you get ONE to work properly, SAVE your settings in the Epson driver with the paper as the setting name.

Bill
BB
brent_bertram
Dec 29, 2003
Ian Lyons’ name has come up, here’s his site , <http://www.computer-darkroom.com/> .

Read both the printing tutorials and some of the product evaluations. He has one on the Epson 2100/2200 printers, describing the driver settings.

🙂

Brent
BL
Bill_Lamp
Dec 29, 2003
THANK YOU Brent!!!

Bill, who is spelling challenged
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Philo_Calhoun
Dec 29, 2003
The print with preview is what you should use, but it will not display the colour correctly. View>Proof>Epson2200Luster.icc or whatever printer profile you are using should display how it will appear. Ian’s site gives lots of options, but I would use the settings that turn off all colour mgt on the printer (with the latest driver, it is Advanced>ICM>No colour management). Use the printer profile for output and play around with rendering intents with view>proof so that you see which works best. (It will generally be either perceptual or relative colorimetric). Don’t use the old Epson driver (likely the one that came with the printer) if you are using Windows XP. If the canned profiles don’t work for you, print a target and have a profile made. www.drycreekphoto.com has instructions for this.
PC
Philo_Calhoun
Dec 29, 2003
Bill: the gamut of the Epson 2200 is a little wider in some directions than Adobe RGB but a lot less in other directions than even sRGB. I like the longevity of the prints, but for some images, it is impossible to get good colours. I had problems recently with trying to get good differentiation of black, blue black, and dark brown strands in a model’s hair. I ended up having it printed on photo paper and it looked much better. For most portraits the Epson works great. I think the problems come when the image has areas outside the gamut of the printer, and it is not hard to find portraits that do. (and conversions with different rendering intents trade improvements in some areas for defects in others)
BL
Bill_Lamp
Dec 30, 2003
Philo,

I very seldom take pictures of people. My work is mostly with plants, flowers, and landscapes. The reds and yellows are of much higher importance. I have taken the same slide and scanned it twice with the same settings, except for color space, added text to identify the scan, carried out basic adjustments (I recorded them to keep that the same), and printed them one right after the other with the same ink carts. & paper from the same box. The yellow in Adobe RGB had almost no detail in the yellow flower. The orange in the butterfly was both a bit muddy and had less detail in the Adobe RGB space. There was good detail, where I needed it, in the wider gammot space scan print.

I’m not saying you are wrong in what you saw. It is quite probable that "Epson-Space" is skewed with the skew being in my favor (for what I photograph) and against you (and your subject matter) with Adobe RGB cutting off what is an important part, for me, of the range.

I probably should have stated the general color areas that are of greatest concern and need for my work.

I am self taught in both photography and Photoshop and have zero Graphics Art book learning. Photography is more than a hobby with me but it is not what I do for a living. I am a "woods beast" Forester. I may not always use some terms exactly as they are defined because I don’t know the full official definition. However, my work is good enough to have hung in an art museum show with another museum show schedualed in a couple of months. I made the statement I did because, so far, all comparisons I have made with prints from my 2200 have been at or closer to what I want with a broader color range than is contained in Adobe-RGB. Please note the use of "I" in the previous sentence. It is important.

So to end what has gotten way too long, different people doing different things with Photoshop & Epson 2200 printers may need to do things differently to get the results they need. Truce?

Bill
PC
Philo_Calhoun
Dec 30, 2003
I agree with you, Bill. The 2200 creates lovely prints for some subjects and fails at others. As you suggest, it probably has to do with the range of colours of your image and the gamut of the printer.

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