I suppose it makes sense in some way but I never use Imageready but it appears there is no choice to NOT install it. Did I miss something or did your installs of CS not give any optins either?
….but the File Browser, so far, is super sweet. Seems fast and all the tag info in an easy to access form.
….. and you can run automated tasks and actions from within FB – or simply click on a choice of images within the folder and just run the taks or actions on just those files. —
"I guess you can manually delete the IR components after the install"
For those who don’t need IR, that is a good question. Does the uninstaller for Photoshop CS provide a "Remove Image Ready Only" option, or is there at least a separate uninstaller for Image Ready? Adobe should have provided a custom install since we all know that ImageReady isn’t used by all Photoshop users and to force the installation of ImageReady does indeed smack of "bloatware".
Nope, you go in to add/remove programs in control panel and try to uninstall and you remove Photoshop and ImageReady but no just ImageReady. Well, for some people this really sucks. At least with PS 7 you could choose to not install ImageReady. I wonder why the change? Maybe it has something to do with the tighter integration between both programs? Maybe someone from Adobe will say something.
I’m guessing the same thing…perhaps if PS and IR are more tightly integrated, sharing more of the same DLLs and such, then maybe that allows Adobe to better optimize the efficiency of each at the expense of requiring that both apps always be installed. Of course, if both must be installed, that nearly begs the question to me of why not just throw the whole bundle into one application. I’m sure the answer to that would be that the resource utilization by a single application is still less than that required by the sum of both. Still, if installing PS alone were to require 175MB of space but with IR that jumped to 250MB (arbitrary numbers here), then I suspect many people would enjoy leaving that extra 75MB free for other needs if they have no need for IR. But, with disk space so cheap these days, even that argument starts to lose merit.
When I started using PS and IR both, I wondered for a while why it wouldn’t just be better to lump all the functionality into PS itself, ignoring the resource loading issues. With time however, I found that I liked the idea of having a more task-specific workspace way of approaching things…with Photoshop being my editing workspace and ImageReady the "web-centric" workspace.
I’m sure there are pros and cons for each approach, individually installable apps versus not, and Adobe just went with the choice that they projected would work best for the majority of users. Fortunately I’m in the category of those who do use both apps, so I’ve no real complaint against the integrated installer.
I can appreciate that the installer for the suite would be complex, particularly if each app had the custom installation available. However other applications grouped as suites typically offer the capability to selectively install or uninstall a given application. MS Office is a prime example, but it is hugely more complex than I think would need to be for the Creative Suite. Norton SystemWorks is similar as well. I don’t know what approach is taken for Macromedia MX Suite, but I would have thought that basically any suite of applications would always allow selective install/uninstall. I’m surprised that PS/IR CS as a stand-alone product doesn’t maintain the custom installation as has been done in the past unless the argument about tighter integration really is the reason.
As for a manual deletion of ImageReady, if it remains installed at the root level of the PS installation as has been done in the past, then how would one know what other files could also be deleted? On the other hand, if IR is now installed into its own subdirectory with all IR-only associated files, if such files do exist, then perhaps deleting the subdirectory would remove even more of the "undesired bulk". But, that still leaves a question about registry entries and perhaps other scattered files also, is that right? In other words, manual deletion doesn’t as likely ensure a clean uninstall as hopefully a product-oriented uninstaller would. Granted, not all uninstallers are 100% clean, but at the very least they do simplify the uninstallation process.
Although I’m not affected any myself, since I’d be using both applications, I’m just being the devil’s advocate here. Nonetheless, if I understand your implied comment that the Creative Suite doesn’t provide for selective installation of the apps, then that just adds yet another thing that puzzles me about Adobe’s decisions on this round of product development.
The first thing that surprised me was the omission of printed manuals in the Suite, which I personally think is absurd. Whoever made that decision must not appreciate the value of having a printed user’s manual at their side for reference while enjoying a less cluttered screen. If everyone had dual monitors, then perhaps a PDF file open on the 2nd screen would suffice, but for students and new users of Photoshop a printed manual remains a valuable resource in my opinion. That’s OT from the rest of this thread, but I just thought I’d vent a little…not at you, but Adobe in general. I think lack of manuals for the suite warrants a much more irritated user community than does the new activiation process.
By the way, thanks for both your help and other informative comments throughout the forum.
There are very few IR specific files. It doesn’t make sense to have it as a separate install or uninstall.
As for the printed manuals – that would quadruple the weight of the box, and greatly increase the cost of manufacturing. They did a lot of marketing studies and found that nobody read the bloody manuals anyway. Printed manuals are available for purchase, if you really need them.
why would you want the option to delete 20 or 30 meg of files in these days of multi-hundred gig hard drives? i can fit the entire directory on the smart media card i use for my camera. THREE times! the entire main PS directory (for 7) is only about 45 meg. sheesh! it’s the wookie defense! it makes no sense!!!
BTW, I DO read the manuals. every page. but then i’m getting the standalone ps cs tomorrow. 1st thing. WITH the manuals. neener. neener. neener! :Þ
Thanks for the answer regarding IR…that definitely explains away any need for concern about it being co-installed with PS7.
I understand what the marketing studies say, it’s just an unfortunate thing to see happen and I’ll bet a set of manuals don’t come inexpensively either. Then again, as I’d see students as the primary area of concern, perhaps their educational discounts can also the the user manuals at a substantially reduced cost.
Dave,
True enough about hard drives and any concern about deleting 20-30MB files. I think bloatware arguements don’t carry much weight these days.
But only in ImageReady not Photoshop. At least that is how the press material reads and I think that is what was said by an Adobe person on one of these forums.
In Adobe’s defense I have to agree about the manuals. I don’t think most people read them. Otherwise we wouldn’t get questions here like "How do I draw a square or circle?"
Besides there are vastly better third party books for Photoshop that are better. Besides you can then choose the type of book and the writing style you want. That is the advantage to having a couple hundred books on the subject available. The hard part is stopping at just one. They are like potato chips, you ain’t happy until you have the all.
As for ImageReady, well I don’t use it often but with 900GB of hard disk space I don’t think I will loose any sleep of over what ImageReady takes up.
As far as the manuals in cs go, as i said, I’d use them. I always read the manual. But if the company thinks no one does and they discontinue them for money savings reasons, then fine. But reduce the price of the product to reflect that.
How do you know they didn’t reduce the price? If manuals had been included, the price point for the upgrades lacking them probably would have been higher.
Some times a reduction is merely an increase deferred. In making the decision not to include manuals, the company was able to not raise the price by the amount it costs to produce them.
I’m not a big fan of the manuals. I’ve only had a few occassions to open any of them. But the one’s I have aren’t far from me.
I did quite a bit of thinking before ordering the CS and one of the issues was the manuals. But once I saw a demo of version que, I figured if I needed a printed manual (remember, they are include in PDF and HTML format) I’d buy the ones I really wanted.
At this stage, I’m pretty confident that I can live without them.
In case you haven’t seen it, here’s a link to the manuals for purchase:
Well….whether or not the price of the Creative Suite was truly kept down by omitting the manuals, I don’t know. But, I will say that I never inquired on the price of the manuals. Following the given link, I’m surprised actually that the full set of manuals are sold for only $59. That’s cheaper than I’d have expected and so I’ll shut up with my argument about their omitted. Meanwhile, I’m still happy that I’ll be getting and using the printed manual with my purchase of Photoshop CS. Now, if it would just hurry up and get here! 🙂
Chris: re "Think about how complex the installer for the suite would have been if each app had custom installs….."
Macromedia Studio MX allows for a full installation of all apps in the suite at once, or custom installations of individual apps. Either way you install them, you can uninstall any particular app separately.
Think about how complex the installer for the suite would have been if each app had custom installs…..
Puh-lease, Corel has accomlpished this same task for years now with the installer for the Corel Graphics Suite (DRAW, PhotoPaint, Trace, etc.). Full customization of install options for each portion of the app, plugins/filters, fonts, etc.
If Corel can do it Adobe certainly should be able to, right?
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